One of the elements of game that is little discussed but which has been an issue for me and other players that I know is the dissociating psychological effect that adopting a “game persona” can cause.
If not properly handled, this is something that can stymie a man’s success with women, or at least put a glass ceiling on it. Fortunately, awareness of the problem and a couple of simple precautions can help matters considerably.
Dissociation
What do I mean by dissociation? Broadly, this is the feeling of inadequacy, or not-being-good-enough that guys can experience when they adopt the cocky-funny persona of the jerk or hot guy that gets girls.
Now, before you rush to the comments section to deride me for suggesting that people be something they’re not, I should point out that the essence of game is accentuating one’s more attractive qualities while turning the volume down on those that will yield a vaginal Sahara in your wake.
The field experience of thousands of men over the last decade reveals that women are most attracted to men who over-index on disparaging humour, entitlement, and arrogance. It is my belief that all guys have these attributes somewhere deep within in them even if they’ve been subdued by years of social conditioning.
The job of a good game instructor or pick-up coach is to help his student access and emphasize these characteristics while dealing with girls. But this doesn’t come without a price.
The former beta male, when required to project the alpha vibes of a school jock who’s enjoyed female attention for years, is a naturally going to feel a little unusual to say the least. The problem, though, is that these strategies work. But the man who utilises them and see his results leap may well continue to feel uncomfortable even as he experiences female approval and validation in the form of sex.
The Field Frequently Reveals Uncomfortable Truths
As a former ‘nice guy’ (albeit one who had occasionally pulled girls before on an inconsistent basis) most of the behaviours that made me successful at meeting women were learned rather than intuitive. It was reading books, websites, and internet forums that taught me that being assumptive, ”flipping the script” and making out that a hot girl is chasing you rather than the other way around actually amps up her attraction rather than earning you a slap round the face.
Faking it to make it is more likely to get you laid than see her questioning your sanity. I am someone who has pretty much always learned to do things through books, and pick-up was no different. But however much I read, nothing could have prepared me for the positive reactions of girls when I accused them of checking me out (even when they weren’t) or of trying to turn the conversation towards sex, or of fantasising about having sex with me (even when they weren’t).
At first the benefits were obvious and enjoyable. But I couldn’t – and sometimes still can’t – help feeling conscious of that gap between how the girls I sleep with view me and how I view myself (or used to, at least). I read an article recently (I think it was by the British PUA Krauser) that said that women’s solipsism benefits the player by creating social proof, because once you’ve slept with her she will naturally imagine that all other girls want to sleep with you as well.
The reality, of course, is that you might easily get blown out by the next woman you speak to. It doesn’t matter – perception is king. But that female solipsism, and the kind of hero-worship that it raises in a girl you’ve banged can feel incongruous to the man who has spent a lot of his life suffering from low self-esteem or even disliking himself.
There have been many times when I’ve hung out with girls who’ve kept asking me if I’m “always like this,” or “how many other girls I’ve done this with,” no doubt imagining that I was some kind of Don Juan from birth. While going along with it my mind has often cried out, unable to understand how she can have read me so wrong and not realised that the devil-may-care seducer getting her pussy wet is so different to the person that I am underneath – or that I was before game, at least.
The net effect of all this is a feeling of artificiality, even loneliness. At times it can seem odd that the women I let into my life, even for a short time, don’t really know the first thing about me, about my life, my struggle to become what I am today – a socially adept guy who can meet women like the naturals I went to school with.
But here’s the thing – girls don’t care about my life, about my struggle. They care only for the tingles that an alpha gives them. Because I enjoy having sex – which I think is a fundamental pillar of any human being’s life – I have had to accentuate the right characteristics in order to get by.
What to Do About Dissociation
If you find yourself experiencing these feeling of disassociation then my best advice to you is to seek out male friends with whom you can discuss them. Close guy friends won’t judge you – in fact they will more than likely admire you for making positive changes. They will support you, and give you the strength that you need as you become accustomed to your new persona.
And don’t get down about putting on a false front – you’re not, you’re simply presenting the best sales case for your product (you) in the manner that the current market demands.
And whatever you do don’t decide to drop game and “just be yourself.” Women won’t thank you for it and you will quickly find yourself as lonely as a MGTOW with a fresh tube of lube and an expired X-Art subscription.
Read More: 5 Reasons Why The Skeptics Are Wrong And You Need To Learn Game
Fantastic article, this is something that we don’t discuss a lot but it’s a lingering feeling that I have, and that I imagine a lot men who were formerly very romantic, loving, nice guy types.
There’s a lingering thought that when you’re having to be a ‘dancing clown’ as Roosh has aptly put it in the past, well what is the end game here? What’s the big prize? A woman who doesn’t really know you and who only wants to fuck you when you are stoic enough or entertaining enough?
I will probably get a lot of slack for saying this, but I think that many adolescent/young men think that they will eventually meet a girl that they’ll get unconditional love from, the sort of love that you got from your parents if you were lucky. When they then see women go from hot to cold so quickly when they fail tests, and see that happen time and time again, it leaves a psychological mark of sorts. You mourn the loss of the idea that you would have a loyal life partner. It’s like a devout religious person finding proof that God does not exist.
I think it’s particularly damaging when you see women responding positively to you ignoring their tantrums and calling them on their shit, and even more so when you see women who are all over you going cold when you make too much of an effort with them. I still don’t quite know how to get over that mentally. Boy, I have some stories. It leads you to be very, very cynical and wary about women.
You could have a harem of 4 gorgeous women, you could be banging a different girl every night, but I think a lot of men still would rather have someone they could trust, someone who was good to them. But every ‘success’, every passed shit test, every bit of appalling behavior from the adolescent to the psychotic that you observe in the women you date and in the women that you see your friends with (my friend got married to a girl who he hadn’t had sex with in a year, and they didn’t have sex on their wedding night or during their honeymoon…or any time since that) just enforces that ‘All Women Are Like That’.
But you still mourn what the 17 year old you thought was possible.
when i think back at the times i was much more of a nice guy, i am disgusted. i consider my former self a weakness that needs to be eradicated, together with all it’s naive sentimentality. i like to depersonalize my past, depersonalize my pain. who i was earlier doesn’t exist, i am simply another man.
the hurt of that person i was is more and more like seeing another person hurt. i can look at it and acknowledge it is unfortunate, but it is nothing personal to myself.
the only thing that reminds me of the past are feelings of inadequacy that just as well must be eradicated. i see them as annoyances, not as dramas. when the feeling sweeps over me, i let it pass through me and think ‘gosh, not again. how boring.’
i don’t see myself as the nice guy who is the victim of a world that needs him to be an asshole. i see myself as the asshole that is a victim of a world that subdued his most innate desires. to be assertive, dominant, selfish, strong.
when i was a nice guy, i never felt really happy. i always knew it wasn’t really me on some level, but i was much too unconscious to classify it.
my 17 year old self was a contemptible weakling. identifying with him serves no purpose. my past is nothing that is worth feeling attached to.
how bout that kratom tho?
LOL
I’m thinking about jumping in and taking the red pill by trading in forex myself!
Right, but don’t forget your kratom
I disagree with this.
Like you I was an uber-beta writ large in my teen years, but I’m philosophical about it. I don’t deny it. I don’t hide it. I don’t try to forget either.
Don’t write off your past. Don’t forget it ever. There’s important lessons in everything.
you are welcome to disagree.
what worth is it to hold on to memories i don’t intend to contemplate? the only reason why i need my conditioning – and don’t fool yourself, memories are just that – is to get rid of it.
what argument can you bring forward to not eliminate everything from your life that doesn’t advance you, even if it is your past? to be unique, to have personality, to have scars? to feel wise about one’s suffering? crap.
Suffering does, or rather can, confer wisdom though
Yeah, the past is to learn from. When people obsess and panick about it all they end up with problems. It took me a long time but I’m philosophical about stuff that happened, and realize that it was in my control all along. I still mess up, yeah, but I set goals for myself and try to handle the present as rationally as possible and get to where I want to be.
life’s a work in progress. You have to build on a good foundation, even if the foundation you improve as you go.
Do you read much about Stoicism?
Sometimes i come back to read these posts and the article and put myself into other peoples shoes. We humans are capable of so much that we can change who we are by thinking it. What you said makes me stop and dare myself to change the way i look at things by analyzing and understanding then try to find out why i understand it that way. After all the mental masturbation is said and done i take an action and make a concious decision to follow up qnd make another change.
My goal is to destigmatize a lof of these stupid feelings so i can move ahead. Posts like this help make it easier.
This is quite an old comment, you know. These days, I am actually quite opposed to it philosophically. I have realized that the thing that actually hurt me most as a nice guy was to run away from my feelings and never acknowledge them, to prove that ‘I can take it’. Had I allowed myself to feel pain and humiliation, I would have learned it is 1. not that dangerous and 2. not necessarily deserved. I am doing this now through meditation, but I had to break through a lot of shame regarding those feeling first. Took me over two weeks.
Yeah, destigmatize them. Allow yourself to feel them. And when you feel them – although you will feel strong reluctance to do so – you realize they are not dangerous at all. Those who do not want you to feel them are those who do not want you to grow.
I think it depends on what you want out of life.
If you’re the type of person who is content with fucking average looking women regularly, learn a few PUA tactics. Between OkCupid, Tinder, Facebook, Instagram, alone, the world can be your oyster of poon plundering. When you get good at it, it’s almost too easy. IOI, canned line from Heartsitie’s crib sheet of game, Mystery Method, and laconic text game.
That’s not what attracts me to this community, though. Masculinity is different than learning a few tricks and fucking a few women. It’s about developing into an independent man who choose his relationships carefully.
I will add one critical point – the important part is not be deluded. One of the most fascinating results of developing game has been becoming friends with a group of good looking young women. Even the most seemingly innocent or high quality woman often has an extraordinary amount of sex partners. We’re not talking like 5 in a year, we’re talking like 50 in a year. Sex is readily available for these pretty young ladies, and you have my assurance they’re indulging.
Marriage is the biggest commitment, and therefore investment, you will ever make. It means giving up a life of complete freedom and giving it to something more than yourself – your family. Women by their nature are a depreciating asset, at least in terms of their looks. If you’re a man who has money, property, a business, or anything of value, I cannot stress enough how my damage the wrong woman can do to everything you’ve worked hard to earn.
I do think that there are some women out there capable of being a partner in this great responsibility. However, game is just as essential for maintaining a long term relationship as it is initiating one. Only once the male female dynamic is cured, will either of you be satisfied. I find that my long term relationships now are completely different than the ones I had as a blue piller. I’m in control, and they like that.
Women with 50 partners per year. Fuck. I thought it was more like 50 partners before marriage.
if the ladies like it, good for them. i admit, though, that the number surprises me enough to make me feel disgust.
You should feel disgust if not utter revulsion.
The average modern woman is a whore of such cataclysmic proportions there has probably never been a time in human history where it has been so pervasive.
on the other hand, there’s the chance to enjoy all kinds of pleasures. i wonder if i would choose a different kind of world to live in, had i the chance. being the individualist that i am, i would like that women are not restrained – but neither protected or entitled.
Sounds like some hard work.
I felt disgust when a woman told me she’d had more than 10 lifetime partners.
In a perfect world, your wife would take care of the home and children. When you were in need of a loose woman, you’d just step to your local (legal) brothel for some much needed refreshment.
It’s quite natural for us to feel such things. Instinctively we know that womb has been desecrated and the thought of children with such a woman brings chills down the spine.
Really we should all be shaming women who have had more than 1-2 sexual partners.
Ever notice how other women get loud and upset if you start throwing “slut” “whore” around even when talking about a woman with say 100’s of partners?
The sisterhood cannot tolerate any criticism of their own whatsoever. They want no judgement at any time for any of their actions.
This is why we must mock them, shame them without mercy.
Fuckin A
Yeah I agree. Becoming a decent masculine man takes work. I wish I knew what I learned in the last five years about thirty years ago. Ive always preferred long term relationships more than spinning plates. Women are too exhausting to handle more than one..at least when you’re working on a relationship that shows promise. Most girls/women are really fucked up. Guys (blue pill) now are too but its a matter of WORKING with someone that has a minimum of demerits and a minimum of baggage and residual trauma in this fucked up dysfunctional society. Finding a woman you think you can trust and hoping for the best but being prepared for the worst. If you can cover your ass then you have a leg up if shit goes south.
Then you doing it wrong dude. Women are one of the few things the more you have and the less you do the easier it gets. A guy with 5 wives is doing less work than a guy with 1. Its how a Saudi King can rule an entire kingdom and have 5 wives but a guy with a normal 9-5 will whine about having 1 girl.
See other women, reduce the amount of time you are spending on women and they chase you. Reward their chasing behaviour with positive attention and hard fucking and they will continue it. But never give them too much. Once they start to get to comfy disappear a few days. This is why 5 women are easier to manage than 1. With 5 women you can be constantly happy.
I get what you’re saying but if you invest time with one chick ,you have to nurture the relationship. You learn each others quirks. Its basic relationship game as opposed to being distant, alloof and non commital. That aproach works if you dont plan on a deep connection.Im at a place where the better the connection ,the better the sex and you have some trust. I get what your saying.Its spinning plates vs. relationship game.
Well fucking said.
Also well said.
If this exist I am sure open to hearing how it works. You know women have bratty behaviour, they purposely screw things up once they get good to get excited. Please layout the guideline to relationship game. When you are stuck with one women who won’t fuck you?
You’ve raised the standard here, Hank.
Stick around
U Da Man Hank!
The key to marriage is preparation and leverage.
I have you’re assurance that they are indulging? …ok
your
However…
What’s your number? According to a survey of adults aged 20 to 59, women have an average of four sex partners during their lifetime; men have an average of seven.
Source: National Center for Health Statistics
Probably around 30ish.
In high school I was in an exclusive relationship. We broke up because of college. I had sex with like two girls in college, and then met a woman who I ultimately married. We were together for 12 years and I didn’t cheat on her.
I found myself single and divorced at 30. I’m just about 34 now. I did most of my bangs from 31 – 33. Two years ago I was doing the “dating” and pickup thing hardcore. Living in a large city makes it too easy.
Now I tend to do quasi-LTRs rather than try and up my notch count. Going on dates takes so much effort. My entire life used to revolve around women. Having a few gals who are vying for your attention, hoping that one day you’ll come around and be more available, is much easier.
So then the hardcore Game practitioners who rack up triple-plus digit notch-counts and the similarly experienced females they seek to attract for yet another pump-and-dump for both parties are both anomalies?
Did you ever tell the story about your marriage and why it didn’t work out? Did she cheat on you? That sounds like a story worth hearing.. especially from your now Red Pill perspective.
That’s actually not a very interesting story, believe it or not. But maybe a common one.
I met my ex-wife my sophomore year of college. Really nice, faithful woman. We were together through college, law school, her graduate school, and my first few years of practice. Our relationship was extremely vanilla.
We moved in together once we were both finished school. She has a mild case of OCD and likes to horde stuff. Not in a “you should be institutionalized” type of way, but in a “that’s really annoying when you leave a bunch of dishes in the sink and refuse to clean them because your own dirty dishes make you gag” kind of way. We fought a lot about the dumbest stuff. Do we really need to hang onto magazines that are five years old? Can you please open your mail and then discard it? If you make a mess in the sink, can you please clean it? You’re crying because you defaulted on a parking ticket, but you haven’t opened your mail in three weeks? C’mon. I’m a bit of a neat freak, and clutter drives me insane. I need to be in big open spaces with no clutter, otherwise I get frustrated.
The weird quirk is she used to drink a few glasses of wine each night before bed. Nothing outrageous. Due to our constant fighting, a friend encouraged her to go to therapy and eventually it lead to her joining Alcoholics Anonymous. She also became a strict vegetarian.
As an “alcoholic”, she would no longer hang out with my friends because “all they do is drink”, and we couldn’t go out to any restaurants because “there’s there nothing I can eat.” Being married to an “alcoholic” vegetarian basically means never leaving the house. All our conversations revolved around “the cats”, which were like our pseudo children. Staying in together was a nightmare because it always resulted in drama over the stupidest shit. We rarely ate dinner together because kale and quinoa isn’t going to cut it for me. We also had zero interest in each other’s personal and professional lives. Our marriage was basically two roommates who don’t live well together.
Eventually we decided to just go our separate ways. We had completely separate friends and interests. Very little drama. I kept the house since I bought it before we got married. She kept all the furniture and money in our joint bank account. No kids, no problem there.
We’re still pretty good friends, all that aside. We were together for about twelve years, so there’s still a strong friendship there. She talks with me about her failed Tinder dates. It doesn’t bother me. I think she likes living alone with her cat.
It wasn’t her who turned me into the red pill. It was the girl I dated right after we broke up. That is a far more interesting story.
Appreciate you taking the time to reply and share that story about your marriage. It may be a common thing but it’s still interesting.. to me at least.. Not all failed relationships end in a dramatic way.. or because there’s one party at fault. It’s good to hear about the experiences of others.. it can help when deciding what to do in a similar situation.
I think I remember your story about the girl you dated who turned you Red Pill.. this was the divorced slut who you developed oneitis for, right.. and who you were ready to put a ring around and give half of your stuff.. but you discovered eventually she was a huge whore who was cheating on you with multiple guys. You dodged a huge bullet there, my friend. Good for you. It sounds like your life right now is infinitely better than it would have been if you had been shackled to a slut who would end up fleecing you of half your stuff if you divorced her.
Anyway, hope you stick around. I enjoy reading your well-written comments and you’ve obviously got some Red Pill wisdom to dispense given your good and bad experiences with women.
we’re in the same boat hank, but i live in a smaller town in a spread-out community… bit challenging on my end for the notch-count, but i’m not complaining! no kids, no responsibilities outside of work, plenty of $$$… life is good. 😀
Yes. I think so.
That is mathematically impossible, you know. The average for both men and women are exactly the same, both sides just lie about it. One side lies A LOT about it.
50 a year? Really? wtf… Feminism was indeed nothing but a licence for whoredom for women.
This is accurate. Most of us would give up fucking a bunch of women, for one decent women.
Being a nice guy means keeping your woman in line. This is what she wants and this is what she expects. She needs you to do this because she knows she can’t control herself at times. If you keep her in line it gives her confidence that you can look after her. Also, if you can’t control a woman, what does it say about you when the chips are down and you really need to take charge?
This doesn’t mean beating her arse or treating her cruelly. It just means being in charge, making the decisions and letting her know when she’s out of line.
“But you still mourn what the 17 year old you thought was possible.”
Good post
Even after growing in wisdom, I believe you can still have the loving, devoted romantic relationship of your youthful fantasies (or very nearly), but you have to grow up a little and adopt a mature perspective.
No one person can be all things to or for you. Your female companion is just that. She is not your mom or your best friend or your therapist or your accountant. She is your woman. That means that, for as long as you want her to hold up her end of the bargain by staying thin, pretty and submissive, you must hold up your end by being confident, dominant and decisive. Of course, she is vaguely aware that you might have feelings, and you can even verbally acknowledge that you do from time to time, but always do so from a position of strength.
Because your wife is not your mom. You wouldn’t show weakness around a horse, so don’t show weakness around a woman. If you want to host a pity party for yourself, get drunk with a male friend, or pay a professional to listen to your bullshit. Surveying your angst and insecurities is not in the job description of girl friend.
The woman you whose heart you conquer will look up to you and have a very high opinion of you – that is true. But who are you to say that her opinion is too high? Isn’t equally (or more) likely that your own opinion of yourself is too low?
Perhaps the feeling of dissociation players feel comes from promiscuity. You are seeing your veneer reflected in too many eyes. Perhaps, if you seduce one good woman and focus on relationship game, you may feel a growing congruence between the man your woman believes you to be and who you really are.
great post!
Sometimes you have to change to stay the same.
Hmm. Is it really changing one’s personality? Or is it simply a man casting off the strictures of a bluepill society and letting his natural masculinity come through?
“Amused Mastery”, “Outcome Indifference”, “Abundance Mentality” and “DGAF” are not elements of the “mask” that we wear, they are the natural traits of Masculine Men. It is not the natural man who is fucked up, it is the poisonous ‘modern society’ in which he finds himself.
So, as I have said before and say again, rejoice my brothers, that you were born male, and thus given the choice to be MEN–to dare great things, to achieve great things, to create, to invent, to think, to reason, to sing, to shout in joy and passion, to love and be loved and to enjoy the Juice of Life with our friends.
Mistral
Interesting.
In that endeavor we come around in perception to see that we have to change, when in reality we are trying to change back.
As Roy Masters once said, as a hypnotist he realized that he was in fact un-hypnotizing people as they were driven to semi-hypnotic existence by trauma and resentment that manifested into disorders ranging from mental to physical.
What we call “asshole game” might really be called “being an adult”.
i am convinced this is true. in hindsight, i feel like i have been half asleep most of my life, just trying to get time to pass in uncomfortable situations.
“”Amused Mastery”, “Outcome Indifference”, “Abundance Mentality” and
“DGAF” are not elements of the “mask” that we wear, they are the natural
traits of Masculine Men. It is not the natural man who is fucked up, it is the poisonous ‘modern society’ in which he finds himself.”
Bingo. That’s the meat of it all right there.
I am glad, and thanks for pointing that out, I thank God every day that I am a man, and not some sow who has to live with no dignity, only getting some kind of feeling that life is worth living by the tingles and the shitty way people treat you. Several of the writers have touched upon this, and I see it more obvious day after day, women are only turned on by negative triads. The concept of ‘ruin’ holds sway over men just like the concept of success does, only it holds it there beneath the surface. There is something interesting about this dilemma, this attraction to the morose, wouldn’t you agree?
At the end of the day it is not men’s nature to not give a fuck about something you care about it. It is the one thing counter to normal male logic. If you don’t give a fuck about your diet, your income, your health, your work, school, whatever, we as men know it will turn out shitty. Women are the only thing where when you don’t give a fuck, and the less fucks you give you are rewarded. Giving women just the minimal amount of attention, with a bit of charisma here and there yields the highest result.
This is both a blessing and a curse. It makes it easy to juggle 5-10 women at once. Because not giving a fuck will only make them want you MORE. But getting to that level when you have zero women is hard.
Counterin-frigging-tuitive.
life coaches and people who make an occupation out of telling others how to live their lives are nothing but cheer leaders… they don’t really play the game on the field… just shout from the sidelines….
the craze of game and PUA shows what a bunch of sex crazed children modern men are…… .you go chasing pussy thinking it makes you into something… she sees you as some dream ideal wonderful man, but behind the curtains you are the same old loser you always were, with that credit card overdue and a leased japanese car….. of course you experienced a depressing moment of truth… you simply caught your own reflection in her…. now go do something real…..
the crux and the wash that no one will want to hear…. is that it’s easier to get pussy than it is to get real success in other areas of life… so while you can wow a girl short term with some flashy suit and smooth talk, underneath you know you are a loser, because unless you want to make a song and dance out of it and shout to the world as some click hungry PUA, the real work is done in earning, skills, financial success, professional success, social recognition (far and beyond a wet meat hole).
This is the truth… the going rate for pussy is $100-$500 an hour…. so I’m not really impressed if you got through 4 or 5 in a weekend…. all you earned yourself was a cheap fuck, after hours of laborious and tedious social manipulation….
get laid sure but go do something real….. even the local bus driver gets pussy from time to time….it’s not really the accomplishment it appears to be…. a useful skill to be good with women… much like it’s a useful skill to be able to repair a car or a broken toilet…. sure…. but there are much better things to be doing…..
Where you been, Ray?
Good post
My man the P is free but the crack cost money… whyoooo!
So what you are saying here is… you get no pussy?
wow…what a nonsense reply…
lolz …and they call it the “Game”
“life coaches and people who make an occupation out of telling others how to live their lives are nothing but cheer leaders… they don’t really play the game on the field… just shout from the sidelines….
the craze of game and PUA shows what a bunch of sex crazed children modern men are…… .you go chasing pussy thinking it makes you into something… she sees you as some dream ideal wonderful man, but behind the curtains you are the same old loser you always were, with that credit card overdue and a leased japanese car….. of course you experienced a depressing moment of truth… you simply caught your own reflection in her…. now go do something real…..
the crux and the wash that no one will want to hear…. is that it’s easier to get pussy than it is to get real success in other areas of life… so while you can wow a girl short term with some flashy suit and smooth talk, underneath you know you are a loser, because unless you want to make a song and dance out of it and shout to the world as some click hungry PUA, the real work is done in earning, skills, financial success, professional success, social recognition (far and beyond a wet meat hole).
This is the truth… the going rate for pussy is $100-$500 an hour…. so I’m not really impressed if you got through 4 or 5 in a weekend…. all you earned yourself was a cheap fuck, after hours of laborious and tedious social manipulation….
get laid sure but go do something real….. even the local bus driver gets pussy from time to time….it’s not really the accomplishment it appears to be…. a useful skill to be good with women… much like it’s a useful skill to be able to repair a car or a broken toilet…. sure…. but there are much better things to be doing…..”
A word class post in fact
Framed
This talks about how 73% of everybody says they are
“making due” in their relationship, this pretty much sums up how I feel most people are going through life, just saying tag your it and settling for whoever will bang them once and a while in exchange for paying all their bills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SO4yI0qPiY
i like how this caller says god would have to introduce him to the women he would marry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFtJTEeY6TE
Excellent article. I always enjoy your writing, Troy.
I’m going to address the flip side. Society, which is largely influenced by third wave feminism, tells men to act like females in order to get a girlfriend. We are brainwashed by romantic comedies, television, culture to believe that women desire a guy who will pay attention to their every word, take them out to fancy dinners, and text them a hundred times a day. The only reason Hot Girl dates Mr. Jerk is because she has low self esteem and doesn’t believe that a man as great as Nice Guy could ever love her. Eventually she comes around, and realizes that it’s Nice Guy who truly loves her. That’s the story of almost every romcom or 80s movie out there. It’s what most of us grew up on.
It comes as no surprise that many men nowadays think they need to return every single of of her text messages, talk on the phone with her for hours, and emote “LOLOLOLOL THAT’S SO FUNNY!!” when she sends over a cat picture. While that type of behavior is promoted by society, it’s also feminine. Her girlfriends are perfectly adequate for that sort of interaction.
The reality is that genetically, women are not sexually attracted to other women. They are attracted to men. Our genes work that way. Using a few generic examples, consider the personas of James Bond and say Maximus. Not particularly emotive which makes them come off as cool, fit, and mysterious. While Maximus is very different than James Bond, one thing is certain – they both exude masculine virtues that women find sexy.
At our core, I think we want to be men. Most of us. We want to hang out with our buddies, smoke cigars, engage in debate, eat bacon, drive fast cars, shoot guns, and be surrounded by pretty ladies. Our genetics yearn for masculinity. However, society is does its best to push femininity on us men – be a vegan, be a nice guy, get in touch with your emotional side, don’t get into bar fights, cry in public, become a cheerleader instead of playing on the football team, always tell her “yes dear.” While that sounds very nice on paper, it creates a situation where women view the modern man as one of her girlfriends that just happens to have a penis. While they may claim to respect the modern beta male, nothing could be further than the truth. PUA tactics get you laid more than being a beta, but becoming masculine is having inner game.
In my opinion, game is a matter of returning to the natural state of things. It’s about embracing that inner gorilla who is unashamed of his sexual desires, aggression, and thirst for conquest. It’s about being a man who women actually respect and feel safe around. Men are supposed to be masculine, and women are supposed to be feminine. We are reclaiming the masculinity that third wave feminism has done its best to steal from us – something both men and females desire.
god, yeah. i always hated doing it, but since everyone around me was jolly and funny, i thought i had to play along while secretly growing a contempt for people. some voice in my head was always telling me ‘be nice. nobody wants to hear what you are really thinking. if you are nice to people, they will be nice to you too and you want that, don’t you?’
i didn’t even know what it meant to have courage back then and to stand behind my beliefs, so i grew to be just another weak sociocritical fool.
i did those things only in the hope of fucking her, anyway. in hindsight, being a nice guy was much more dishonest and at the very least as pragmatical as being an asshole.
It’s funny. I am a lawyer and writer by trade. Perhaps you can tell by my posts that I like to write.
My biggest pre-game mistake with women was having horrible text game. I would send elaborate, well thought out text messages, all with perfect grammar and spelling. I thought they would be impressed with my writing, particularly the purported academics. I would text them about my day, what I’m eating, what I’m happy / sad about, whatever. Anything to “keep the conversation going” in hopes of maybe getting laid after like 20 dates.
After reading McQueen and RooshV, I’ve seen huge improvement by dumbing down all my text messages. With women, I use no punctuation, no grammar, and hardly any spelling. My go to – “yup” “noppe” “c u there” “dress hot” or sometimes I just don’t respond it all.
In contrast, I send long and elaborate text messages and emails to my male friends. Whether it’s legal advice or game advice. They’re perfectly punctuated, and I always do my best to express a cogent thought.
What I’ve learned is that women like the distance and mystery.
I’m currently seeing this girl, and this one beta orbiter is always texting her. They’re going on and on about YouTube videos, TV shows, and other stuff I quite frankly find beneath my attention. She knows better than to text me about that stuff, because I either won’t respond or just something like “cool”. I find it comical that his constant emotional investment has lead to being friend zoned hardcore, while my generally laconic attitude ensures she empties my balls at will. Bonus: her beta orbiters constantly tell her how I’m “an arrogant jerk who thinks he’s so great because he’s got money, a good career, and a reputation for womanizing , which has the ironic effect of making her more interested.
women like mystery. bingo.
Haha, I go with the nothing at all or a 3:1 ratio because I refuse to dumb down and write like a 3rd grade educated thug in order to get some broad moist.
haha, yeah, i also used to be proud of my perfect writing. it was actually a male acquaintance on msn messenger that once told me that i gotta learn to distinguish between formal and informal conversation. he was so annoyed by my punctuation and stuff that he quit the contact.
i can empathize with that development in texting. there was a time about two years ago when i made an effort to get girls through online dating and took my time to write thoughtful messages incorporating all kinds of references to her profile and making funny (boring) remarks. almost never got an answer. even asked a girl for advice once, stupid me, and she made fun of it and said that she likes bad boys and finds me rather nice. guess i can at least take pride in the fact that she esteemed me highly enough to be honest.
sometime later i tried it with ‘hey cutie, what r u doing this evening?’ and got a lot more responses. frankly, i find it more fun that way, too. the shortness allows to express a certain aggressiveness and animality that is lost with very formal text.
as with men, the content is different. i am more interested in logical discussion then and maybe some male shit testing, e.g. calling each other fag. some people from my gym use a lot of smileys and stuff on facebook. i am not sure if they do it to look less intimidating and have a contrast to their masculinity or because they actually are that way. i find it incongruent.
currently, i think i am too much of a jerk actually and not very well-adjusted at that. often repels people, but that’s a nice lesson for me, learning to be fine with not being liked. e.g. girl texted me something uninteresting and i wrote her ‘if you want somebody to talk, go see a psychiatrist’. the good thing is that this comes somewhat authentically to me, so despite my fear of rejection, i am not playing it. need some fine-tuning and/or more practice.
do you write a blog?
why not? it’s fun. just let your manly emotions flow into it.
I’m female, so I know most readers here won’t put much stock into what I say, but I think it depends what kind of girl/relationship you want. If you just want a slut to sleep with a few times, then “yep” and “noppe” probably are more efficient than wasting your intelligence on someone who couldn’t care less.
But if you’re looking for a LTR/marriage with a woman who isn’t an airhead and is interested in things outside of sex, personally I would be way more interested in a smart, well-read man with a good grasp of English grammar and vocabulary. In fact, a paragraphs-long profile always gets my attention on dating sites and sets the writer apart in my mind.
I write a well known legal blog. I’ve written a few articles on masculinity, but law is one of the most socialistic and feminized professions in the country. So I comment here and a few other places anonymously. I’ll probably get around to starting a masculinity blog at some point, but right now it seems pretty saturated with content.
figures that law is feminized. after all, who but weaklings get off on telling other people what to do. have you considered writing about that for rok? we have a lot of articles here that are concerned with the law, but little inside knowledge. could add some quality to the rant.
try it if you care enough, it’s fun. i like the stuff you write.
Yeah and the funny part is
there is no winning either as an “alpha”, your time is limited as an alpha and she is probably going to drain someone else’s balls soon, or is already =|
the better she is the harder it will be to just shrug her off once she confirms your assumptions,
Don’t pretend that it isn’t annoying either !
losing good pussy is always depressing regardless of your “alpha or not” and the greater it is the harder it is to shrug off
True, when i was sub 20 , I always thought women would be impressed by my intellect and attention to detail
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAx10 ^
but….when i started being vulgar, arrogant and sarcastic, i realized that i was speaking in women’s language and got laid a lot
just be vulgar , sexually explicit and sarcastic and women will love you
women are deviants and only like the same
i go abit further with my deviancy and turn them into BETA females for ME
always remember that ALL WOMEN know if they would shag within 10 minutes of knowing you
a SAME DAY LAY is more probable than a 20 DATE LAY, why? give her more time to consider you as a partner and shes more likely to notice your flaws instead
most men think if they just go on enough dates the woman will notice more and more positves
they think, the formula = more time spent around woman = more chance for her to see how :great; you are, but really the opposite is true
nothing better than getting them to fall in love with YOU
BETA females
had this relatively hot hippie lady write me on facebook all the time. she had a thing for analyzing the shit out of me and telling me how it is typical for gemini (astrology) to have two faces, because in her eyes, there was a conflict between climbing mountains and liking hot women.
nevertheless, after she told me seventy times that something is wrong with me because i don’t want to commit to her (i fucking only knew her through chat) and after i told her equally often that i just want sex and adventure and eventually told her bye because she’s not what ->I<- seek, she sent me her number and even complained that i didn’t call her. girls today must be living in the delusion that men just exist to please them and do as they wish.
oh wait, i can understand why they think that!
LOL, little does that orbiter know there is almost nothing more he could do to drive her into your arms faster than attacking you in the exact ways he is.
It is precisely why the rich girl dates the bum, because the dad attacks him as a bum, and she makes up reasons for why the bum isn’t so bad. Women have the same complex as white knights, they want to save the whales, save the snails and save bad arrogant men and reform them. Its why they want to fuck criminals and guys with big beards on motocycles.
I see it all the time, racist men’s daughter date the men who the dad hates. Women will try to make up back handed excuses just to oppose men. If the orbiter was smart he’d say you are such a great man, and she is lucky yo have you. He’d try to use reverse psychology. Say your boyfriend has everything going, money, good looks, great career, women crawling all over him, I wish I was like him.
Then the girl would start to doubt how great you are, women enjoy rebelling against men so again it would play on her mind. But no beta would know this, and most alphas would go get their own girl, it wouldn’t be worth it to try to compete or steal another girl like that.
The problem for you is that most highly masculine men don’t give a fuck about discussing goddamn English fucking grammar with you.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Seriously…..I don’t know how much easier I can explain this. Do you want to be the best most loved woman by a man?
Then seriously shut the fuck up. Next time you want to interject your opinion with your man….don’t. Besides as a woman you are innately aware there are vastly better ways of getting your point across.
Just shut up and be demure. It is insanely easy. Stop fucking shit up
Ghetto chicks hate thugs and love men with style. Based on experience…
And that is one reason among many why I’m not attracted to highly masculine men. Do I “want to be the best most loved woman by a man”? That depends on the man. If we’re talking about the kind of man who thinks he has to dumb himself down with me because I’m too stupid to understand and/or not worthy of engaging in intelligent adult conversation, then no. If we’re talking about a man who thinks my opinions don’t matter because I’m a woman (and even if he did care, he obviously already knows what I’m thinking, since girls all think alike), then no. If we’re talking about a man who doesn’t want me for anything but sex, then no.
I won’t deny there are girls who want that kind of man. And that’s fine for them. I’m just saying that if a guy ever decides he wants to have a relationship with a woman that goes beyond a few rolls in the hay with an easy lay, if he wants that loving marriage with a beautiful, traditional family-minded young virgin who will be a devoted wife, mother and homemaker, that red pill men say they want but can’t find (in the US, anyway), those men might find that the very techniques that worked so well with the shallow sluts he only wanted (and who only wanted him) for sex backfire.
I can’t speak for all women, but a lot of women feel the same way about macho jerks with no visible emotional depth as many men feel about stupid, self-absorbed girls-they may sleep with you if you’re hot, but they won’t respect, trust or want to build a life with you. And those lovely domestic maiden unicorns won’t even sleep with you, they’ll just write you off altogether.
BTW, how exactly am I “fucking shit up” by expressing my opinion?
I’d be willing to wager you get a better quality of woman than the ones who do dumb down.
Speaking personally I can say for a fact that I have more emotional depth than any woman I’ve ever known and that includes my own mother.
Not only that but several men I know and have known also have more emotional depth than any of the women I’ve known also.
Sorry that you’ve only experienced low quality men. Perhaps that is due in part to your own personal choices? I’ll leave that for you to decide.
Btw you say you are a traditional woman well that must mean you are a bible believing Christian?
Well if so then you should know because of course you have read the bible correct?
That in the book of Ecclesiastes the king who it is attributed to king Solomon said that I have travelled far and wide in search of wisdom. I have found few men…….and no women.
It also says for women to keep their mouths shut and be submissive to the husband. So what exactly do you have such a problem with in what I told you?
I’m sorry you aren’t attracted to masculine men. You must live a pampered lifestyle surrounded by effeminate clowns….no wonder you’ve got it all twisted.
Btw if you aren’t a religious bible believing Christian then you are in no way a traditional woman.
Are you claiming to be a virgin? That’s laughable because the way you describe the men you “don’t ” want is easily discernible as conclusions you came to through personal experience.
You sound 25+ so that would make sense. Good luck finding a chump to finance the dwindling years of your looks. I really mean that because there are a lot of chumps out there and I’m sure you can find at least one.
Yeah, this all sounds good in theory.. but the experiences of men here all point to the fact that yes, All Women Are Like That. Even you supposedly unicorns, i.e., attractive, slim women who aren’t sluts and who are actually looking for a meaningful relationship leading to marriage.
Writing long, elaborate profiles and messages to women, even supposedly “good girls” like you, get me and other men nowhere. Being cocky, and saying as little as possible seems to work better.
It makes sense to do what works. I’m open to accepting that rather than being a special snowflake unicorn, I could just be weird.
You and the men you’ve known may indeed have a wealth of emotional depth, but if you behave in the manner advocated by Game practitioners when you’re around women, you’re sending the opposite message to them.
Yes, I am a Christian. And yes, I am aware of multiple Bible verses which express how rare it is to find a good woman. There is also a passage in Proverbs which describes a virtuous woman and proclaims that her worth is “far above rubies”. I think some people have twisted this to try to make it mean ALL women should be treasured like precious gems, but in a way it’s actually saying the opposite, that most women aren’t so virtuous, which is why one who is is so valuable.
If I had a husband I would submit to him, in accordance with Biblical teachings. But as I have yet to meet a man who I believe has the ability and inclination to lead me in a Christian way, I’m single. In my world at least, men who are up to the challenge of marriage (and I don’t deny that following the Biblical guidelines of husbandly responsibility is more difficult than being a submissive wife) are as rare as marriagable women.
As a matter of fact I am a virgin. Not just a technical virgin, mind you, I’ve never even kissed a man, that’s how much of a virgin I am. As in, forget the carousel, I’ve never even been to the fair. I have however had bad experiences with men in my family.
My father was a sociopath, this was an actual diagnosis by psychiatrists, btw, not me making a judgement. I won’t go into detail about this, lest I be labeled a “bitchy victim”, but suffice it to say he displayed a complete lack of empathy for others and total selfishness. So he was basically the living embodiment of the Game attitude. I honestly can’t say I’ve ever meet one of these “effeminate clowns” you speak of in real life, though I think I’ve seen that type in the media enough to get what you mean by that phrase.
I do understand that it is wrong to lump all men in with my father (unless AMALT holds as true as AWALT, what do you think?) and actually started reading the manosphere sites in an attempt to understand men better.
And it has opened my eyes to a lot of ways that men are mistreated by and put at a disadvantage to women ( if this part of Troy’s article is really the experience of most men with most women: “But here’s the thing – girls don’t care about my life, about my struggle. They care only for the tingles that an alpha gives them.”, than I apologize on behalf of my gender and can understand why men grow disenchanted with women as anything other than sex objects).
I understand why this happens, but as a woman who isn’t like that (“special snowflake”, mentally damaged, plain weird, whatever), I still don’t like it. If most men do think the way the majority of red pillers seem to, I’m afraid that just reenforces and adds to every negative “stereotype” (or are they truths?) I’ve ever had about men. If not for my religious beliefs, I’d probably be considering becoming a lesbo feminazi at this point.
I suppose both sides of the battle of the sexes have become jealous, resentful and bitter, and nobody wants to be the first to break the cycle, lest “the enemy” take it as a sign of weakness. Or maybe it’s always been this way, that real love and cooperation between the sexes is a pipe dream, and all male-female relationships boil down to is each side trying to get as much as possible while giving as little as possible.
If that is the case, I think I’ll continue to sidestep the whole thing. I won’t lie and say I don’t have a sex drive, or that I don’t see the benefit in being financially supported by a man (as you mentioned), I’m not even passing judgement on people who seek those things (reproducing and aquiring provisions for oneself and one’s offspring being a part of biology, after all), but I think I’d only be adding to the problem by entering into relationships where I was nothing to him but a pretty face with a vagina and he was nothing to me but a wallet with a penis.
You pegged me as far as age, I’m 31, but if we were having this conversation 10 years ago, I would be saying the same things. And not to brag (well, maybe a little bit to brag), but if you met me in person you’d probably think I was 10 years younger at least, I still routinely get asked what school I go to, and otherwise assumed to be in my late teens-early twenties. Without a drop of makeup or any medical procedures or special efforts to “dress young”. So perhaps there is something to the idea that sexual experience ages a woman.
Though very hard to believe If everything you said is true regarding yourself I feel a genuine pity for you and any Christian women who truly walk the walk.
A virgin at 31? Some of your comments would suggest you are physically attractive as well? I gotta say that’s a fucking shame. You should have given birth to children starting about 10 yrs ago.
All I can say is we live in Sodom and Gomorrah. It is hell for both sexes who desire God and family above all else.
Regarding the quote you put from the article, yes it is absolutely a general truth pertaining to women not only for me personally but also virtually every male friend and acquaintance as well. Women have been so viciously degraded by our culture and technology that it is beyond words to describe the tragedy. It is as if their souls have been sucked right out of them and they joyously rush headlong towards hell while dancing and singing praises to satan. This level of sexual promiscuity for the average woman has got to be historically unprecedented.
Personally I only have one friend who is in a loving Christian marriage whose wife is a stay at home mom and is a good woman.
If your father is/was a sociopath how is it that you were raised with such strong values and religious beliefs? Are you from a small rural area? How big is your family…brothers, sisters?
By the way you seem to equate game only with pick up and that is only one small aspect of the red pill and for the most part only the beginning of what a man learns when he digests the red pill. Really it is about self improvement and learning the tools to excel in life and achieve while minimizing or eradicating risks we do not need to take.
If you have been reading the manosphere then surely you are aware of the term neo-masculinity which is our attempt to find brotherhood and ethical value systems again since these things have been thoroughly gutted from our lives virtually since birth.
Mainstream nominal Christianity is as much to blame for this cultural rot for co-opting itself with feminism and other anti Christian ideologies which followed the enlightenment and then the industrial revolution.
You are obviously an intelligent woman. From where have you received education?
Why is it that you have never even kissed a man? If you are attractive surely men have approached you in public or within your social circle. Have you been locked away in some relatives house all this time?
Have you lived in the same area all of your life? What kind of work do you do?
What denomination church do you attend?
You may be correct in the fact that your celibacy may preserve your youth for longer. I’m not sure how it affects women but I have been reading about the many positive effects a man receives by keeping his vital energy within himself.
I was celibate from 21-26 and I finally buckled under it all. Call it weakness/lack of faith/ whatever you wish but the women I found within the churches I attended where extremely unappealing, consisting of mostly undercover sluts and falsely proud single mothers and I live in the heart of Dixie. It is the pinnacle of egregious insult to me as a man the notion that I would raise another man’s bastards emerging from some whore’s promiscuity.
I just got out of a 3yr relationship several months ago and have gone back to complete celibacy again. I have noticed my drive, productivity and intensity of emotions have sky rocketed. I’ve taught myself to channel my emotions. I can effectively redirect feelings I don’t want into positive emotions. At this point it’s hard to look at even highly attractive females and not feel disgusted at the idea of how many strange penises have plundered their orifices. I only respond to demure females and I will guide them in that direction. If they want to fight with me I excise them from my life. My time is more important to me. To build a connection slowly, enjoying the process is something I’ve fantasized about but also realize probably not likely. Not to mention the fact that my successes with women have virtually all come from taking what I want as quickly as possible. It’s tiring when most all respond in the same manner.
Despite that I have had brief moments enjoying the pleasant distraction of a submissive female enthralled by something about me. My last girlfriend was very much like this for years but in the end her very high insecurities pushed me away and left me indifferent. How can you love someone if you don’t trust them completely?
Learning game changed my life for the better and I have helped other men go down this path as well and seen it change their entire outlook about themselves and their lives. To know the truth is powerful in itself especially considering the multitude of lies we are bludgeoned over the head with day by day. How one chooses to use that knowledge is up to them however. So it can be used for completely selfish ends or not. But knowledge itself is not evil or wrong.
I have asked you some personal questions. If you are not comfortable disclosing any of that on a public forum you can email me at
Babulingus at gmail.com
Im “an arrogant jerk who thinks he’s so great because he’s got money, a good career, and a reputation for womanizing , which has the ironic effect of making her more interested.
Yeah, my man!
I still text as if I’m writing a book, perfect/spelling/grammar/punctuation, lest I actually start to degrade and write everything like that from now on!
Funny is that women always want to try to make you her “girlfriend”. It’s like she’s trying to turn you into someone she detest in the depths of her soul. WTF.
It is called a “shit-test”.
A shit test is there to ensure you are for real. The fake-it-til-you-make-it crowd manages to pass the first set of tests and gets laid. They fail the test of time however and have short relationships as a consequence.
Once you stop the fake and start the being the real man you will no longer whine about women and feminism. If you are a man in our time you have it good. It is the lesser males (beta and omega) who are in deep shit.
If what you said was true, that you were a married blue-piller who turned his life around after a divorce, then I am inspired by your comments Mr. Moody.
Many thanks – agree with you about returning to the natural state of things.
If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
That which we call game was in reality the normal state. So “game” is not something you foster nor foist, but comes as a result of chiseling away all of the conditioning.
In the end, we would see that a person is boundless in capability when this happens.
As for a desire to be loved: sorry guys. Those who had good mothers should know that the love they got from their mother is gone forever. You will never be loved like that again, because that’s only possible for little boys being loved by their momma. There was a reason why past societies had rites of passage for young men, it was to remind them of that which is relegated to their past.
Enjoy the memories you have and if your mother is still around, be a good son and pay a visit or call dear old mother more often. No other woman will be so kind to you, ever, in the rest of your life.
Those of you who had bad mothers, you have a carrot and stick in front of you trying to get into some kind of love you never had, and you have it even worse: all you have is a dream of being loved, and dreams have a tendency to be rather lofty and unrealistic. Even worse, at the same time you are an open book to being treated like shit by even worse women than your mother. You will sacrifice all for that dream So to you guys I say, that dream is dead. You never had it, and never will. Disown it, leave it behind, and if your rotten mother is still around, kick her out of your life.
About love.
First you have to love yourself. You must never stop doing this. Love yourself more than any other person, living or dead on this planet.
Second, once you have mastered the art of seeing the greatness you are; others will start to notice. Others, like women.
Keep in mind what a great gift it is for these lesser beeings to be in your company. No matter how hot they are. If you have to remind you about this fact you have not yet mastered the first rule.
Last but not least these people will then start to see the blessing your presence is for them. It might help if your believe in yourself is so strong that your actions speak more than your words. Dont believe in your greatness – KNOW it. Then people will love you. A lot.
They love you not unconditional but for what you are and more so for what THEY can benefit from your presence.
Remind them frequently. Withdraw your presence at times. Share your greatness with others (or at least speak openly about the possibility, this does include other women if you are married) and enjoy your life.
use all your senses. don’t deny or ignore any idea that comes to your mind. don’t subdue your own judgments. don’t try to think away pain. be present and conscious of all your thoughts and emotions. be selfish. if you fully accept everything your body is giving you and decide to use all your assets to your own ends, your body will be convinced of it’s worthiness.
by denying yourself, you convince yourself that you must be denied. by fully using yourself, you convince yourself that you are worth being fully used.
convictions follow actions.
well said. and interesting bit about the mother.
my mother loved me to death. so much, in fact, that it made me an asshole around the age of … 6? but it was a back and forth, a bit like i see it in these bad boy – princess relationships. when i needed something, i was nice to her, but most of the time, i was fed up with her stupid ‘love’. only guilt kept me from being open about it.
i admit having craved the same thing from women later. eventually i realized that i have probably had enough of it for my whole life. as no father was around, i did my own ‘rite of passage’ and cut off the contact. boy, living through my first fever without momma’s chicken soup was harsh. but afterwards i knew that i don’t need it.
oh, and there is still ayahuasca, frog poison, killing animals (hunting / fishing), mountaineering.
as for dreams, i do a little mind trick: i separate strictly between fantasy and reality. reality is everything i can directly see, touch and observe. fantasy is everything i imagine: theories, ideals, memories, visualizations, dreams, projections, other people’s judgments and emotions. in my fantasy, i can indulge in everything and thus satisfy my desires. at the same time i know that it has nothing to do with reality and thus take away the need to have it in real. most of my life, i confused these two – i believe psychologists call it the false reality.
Very deep and wise post. luckilly I had a great mother and father. Unfortunately we grew up in the golden rotten era of political correctness and fucked us and its taken years of deprogramming to get our balls back.
I can see how Game might feel like being fake at first, but once you are well practiced in it, you become the guy you started out “acting” like FOR REAL. Sure, some traits that seperate Alphas from betas are things you are born with/beyond your control, but a HUGE part of it is your attitude and behavior.
Some Alphas are born (insanely handsome, wealthy and/or high social status family, instinctual knowledge of Game principles), some Alphas are (self) made (working out, dressing right, getting education and a good job, developing a dashingly devilish demeanor).
You’re just as much a real Alpha if you got there through Game rather than luck. If you’re picking up hot girls on the regular then you are the type of guy hot girls want. The proof is in the (wet) pussy.
This was a good part of the article: “that said that women’s solipsism benefits the player by creating social proof, because once you’ve slept with her she will naturally imagine that all other girls want to sleep with you as well.”
In regards to natural born (lucky) alphas versus learned alphas, the staying power of a learned alpha I feel is more valuable. Consider that the really built, good looking guys, possibly from wealthy families as well were just “treated” by everyone as alpha out of the box. Take that treatment away from society and you’ve got a primo beta, but even worse, a beta that’s out of his natural element since he will still retain the mental shell.
When I hear catch phrases thrown around like “be yourself,” or “keeping it real,” I just laugh because what we should all be doing is being not ourselves as we know it now, but being (acting) like the person we want to become. Even natural born alphas fake it till they make it in certain aspects of their lives.
you wrote you were female in another comment. what the hell is your business giving advice to men on how game feels?
We all (male and female) have experience with “faking it till we make it” in some aspect of our lives. Aside from that, I’m saying results speak for themselves. if you’re sincere about self-improvement and not just wearing a mask, then the personality and attitude you develop in yourself is just as real as the personality traits you were born with, whether those parts of you are connected to sexual success or other aspects of your life, and regardless of whether you are male or female.
right, make some generalized statements that mean nothing. go write a horoscope, bitch.
Three people upvoted my comment, so obviously it struck a chord of some kind.
“And don’t get down about putting on a false front – you’re not,
you’re simply presenting the best sales case for your product (you) in
the manner that the current market demands.
And whatever you do don’t decide to drop game and “just be yourself.”
Women won’t thank you for it and you will quickly find yourself as
lonely as a MGTOW with a fresh tube of lube and an expired X-Art
subscription.”
Invaluable advice
Article seems interesting, but I had to stop here:
“most of the behaviours that made me successful at meeting women were learned rather than intuitive”
I think it’s the opposite, I think one either has charisma (however minute) or not. Trolling women is either natural or not… it’s hard to fake that. Girls can tell when you don’t care about them versus when you’re faking not caring about them.
“the kind of hero-worship that it raises in a girl you’ve banged can feel incongruous to the man who has spent a lot of his life suffering from low self-esteem or even disliking himself”
Completely overrated. I feel more accomplished after Mixing down a solid Breakbeat tune. Puss is puss, creating *anything, be it vocation or hobby* is where it’s at.
Making it with a woman worth your existence is a beautiful thing and can be extremely satisfying. The sex you guys talk about having is laughable. Yeah, fucking with plastic socks with strangers, with women you can’t stand… that’s fun… making ‘those’ women cum… yeah, that’s fun. – negative
I think it essentially boils down to one thing: changing your perception of society. The first step is realizing and accepting the fact that society is not like you were told it was nor how you would want it to be. Growing up you were most likely told a lot of bullshit about life in general, society and women. Those bullshit have lead you to alter your point of view with false and limited beliefs because you bite right into everything that you were told, for example the classic scheme: be a good student, be a good boy, go to university, make money, listen to your boss, be nice to women and you’ll live find a beautiful virgin to marry and have kids with (just writing this shit makes me laugh…)
When most men out there realize that what they see if the absolute opposite of what they were told, they start to wonder if the problem is not actually them. Buddy, listen, the problem is not you, the problem is that you believed all this shit, the same shit that you parents told you to “protect you”. From that point on I think instead of changing, it’s a better choice to “improve”, like a 2.0 of yourself. If you change too much you will get burned and you will lose yourself in the process, this shit ain’t about dr jekyll and mr hyde. Improving and engaging in the self development road is the best solution I believe, the solution that will pay on the long run in every aspects of your life. There is no fucking point in being a person that you are not, being a stupid clown in the club to entertain bitches, pretending to be a gangster when you don’t even lift. Learning game, lifting weights, reading books, eating healthy, all these steps are the starting point of making a better person.
Don’t get me wrong, most of us here disagree about a bunch of shit when it comes to life in general (especially about bitches) but that doesn’t mean you should be an outcast, a little hater, internet troll who jerks off furiously. Ask yourself what you want out of your life and then think about this: should I rather be a little faggot troll in mommy’s basement or adapt to my environment take care of my life and behave like a fearless badass motherfuckin’ lion?
“A lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinion of a sheep.” – Tywin Lannister – true badass
I never had game when I was younger, but one dose of Kratom made my penis grow 5 Inches and gave me an raging asshole attitude. The ladies love it for some reason. Kratom! one dose will do!
The key here I’m reading in this article is to acquaint the newly red pill man to the inner solitude and self reliance that a superior man feels within himself. Every man should read Self Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson btw.
Once you realize how easy it is to attract women and the shallow depths to which her concept of love flows around and then stagnates in her solipsistic mind, you will soon discard the notion of ever wanting a woman’s “love” in the first place. You will actually find the notion fucking hilarious.
Consequently it is precisely at this time women will fall madly in love with you and it will seem like a procession of starry eyed, drugged out zombies and it will be hard to hold back laughter.
When a man commits his love to someone or something he will fucking kill for it, he will lay down his life.
When a woman “loves” someone or something it is easily discarded or returned like a pair of shoes or a dress. That is how a woman views a man she loves….just another accessory easily tossed to the wayside when her choice addiction starts giving her spasms.
Red pill men need to form tighter bonds of brotherhood to find true understanding and support. This will bring about masculine virtues again like honor. We don’t do this for women….but for each other.
Our time with women is always putting them in the place where they are most useful….as momentary physical pleasures and fleeting depositories of semen
Hmm. Seems why devout religious men have solid ltr families. They love their diety more than their woman if at all. I’ve witnessed religious men lose their long time wife and barely shed a tear. The wife served him well but he loves his heavenly master more. He’ll say ”she’s fine, she’s in heaven” as other potential replacements begin to orbit the stoic.
You are correct in this.
In the book of genesis God basically tells Adam that He is cursing him and Eve and everyone after them chiefly because Adam “listened” to the woman and not God.
This does not simply mean hearing with the ear but an affectation of the heart which caused him to lose his light of reason as he begins to look at this created thing from his own rib and see it as giving greater wisdom than God Himself who walked with Adam in the garden.
To love God or even love yourself as god is immensely attractive to women. It is as if they are intrinsically aware that a man’s heart can never be all for her. For the fool who squanders such a treasure finds nothing but her resentment.
I’ve always made sure that one thing is certain for me.
I won’t be hearing shit from any goddamn broads.
Great topic in this article. I would consider things about the ending however. I simply don’t have enough other friends who followed my corrected path to get where I am now to look to their consolations or advice or even an ear to lend. Even the most “player” friends of mine I’ve matched or surpassed, and even them, who were once decent wing men, default to stints of jealousy and unsuitability due to wide spread thirst.
Granted, I supposed I could find a mentor but I don’t have time to become the 2nd wheel to a successful man without detracting from what I’ve already strategically planned, a strategy which is slowly but surly working in my favor and for which I’ve invested plenty of time in opportunity costs. It’s frankly easier to gain insight on this site, the RVF, or go out and observe other guys’ game who have me beat in certain areas.
I think the best way to gauge disassociation episodes is their frequency. I had one recently, the first notable one in a few months. Before that, I’d fall back into a disassociation episode for maybe a day or 2 each month. I feel that by the end of this year, all cylinders will be firing and disassociation, for the most part, will be a memoir of the past.
This article is spot on. It seems more and more that a man must choose between staying true to himself and his personality and “selling out” to himself to achieve attraction.
Even the strongest, most masculine man will experience heartache and will need some support. It will be his instinct to seek this support from the woman/women but he must resist if he wants to retain her attractions. It is best to use male friends or family members.
No longer are women the emotional support they SHOULD BE. The alpha mask must never slip.
So in other words, it’s a type of “mask”.
And I gotta ask this, what exactly is a MGTOW? First I see this as being positive and now I’m seeing this being negative. So a guy who gets laid with a different girl every week isn’t going their own way? I’m confused.
I don’t think ROK has a problem with “men going their own way” in the literal sense. It’s just that all too often, that mantra is used by incels to backwards-rationalize their fear of taking action.
Alphas do go their own way in life
Another parting shot at MGTOWs? Is there some kind of collusion against MGTOWs on the part of the writers on this website?
Maybe your “dissociation” is due to your divisiveness in the manosphere.
“There have been many times when I’ve hung out with girls who’ve kept asking me if I’m “always like this,” or “how many other girls I’ve done this with,” no doubt imagining that I was some kind of Don Juan from birth. ”
This statement rings true in my life. Short answer “Well yes, it’s hard because so many women want to be with me, but I try to keep one-night stands to a minimum.”
Real answer: “I have no fucking clue what just got me laid. I think it was luck.”
I don’t put on a mask, as this article suggests to do. I am myself and, frankly, I could care less about women–now that I know how they think and the motivations behind their actions. Making a tenbagger in 5 minutes on the market is much more satisfying than some skank.
I am a complete prick to women, and they love it. When they walk past I look right through them. They know nothing about me and, apparently, I’m “hard to read”. In other words, I’m the “mysterious-asshole-who’s-kinda-hawt” guy.
No More Mr. Nice Guy should be required yearly reading for every man, especially “recovering nice guys”.
exacty the same kinda game that I play….
the mysterious asshole who is kinda hawt
This is really for the emotionally retarded, and it shows that “alpha” is a fiction, and even worse, a trap that most stay in, even when it’s the source of most of their pain. I did Mystery’s course about ten years ago, and yeah it works sometimes, but there is no way around feeling like a phony epic douche when using it.
The psychological/biological concepts that he teaches are legit however his method is his and won’t work for most people who aren’t him. It’s your job to apply the concepts in conjunction with your own personality and attributes to develop your own method.
I will agree that every man could use help in meeting and landing a woman. I just feel a lot of PUA tactics are either unethical, or harmful to both you and the woman. Let’s be clear too: I’m not a feminist, and hav no issue with men bedding numerous women.
It’s not a fiction, it’s just that some people are born with what we call ‘alpha’ traits (or acquire them very early) and others aren’t. For the latter, emulating them can feel false at times.
It’s a social construct that traps men in their attempt to try and live up to it, and often is the cause of their own destruction. See, Fight Club for an excellent example of this.
It’s not a social construct – it’s inherent in certain men. I agree that trying to live up to external standards can cause great unhappiness, but no-one’s forcing you to.
The brain/mind is a muscle. Question: can you ride a unicycle? You fall on your ass (pain) but with practice you get it. Whatever you learn/teach yourself is more commendable than what is taught to you by others or force fed especially. Most force fed learning is most likely restricting or setting boundaries to your natural free thinking/agency. Mothers and female primary school teachers can be overbearing restrictors/shamers and you never come to realise their impact. Discover something on your own and you find that you posess the key to the knowledge to where you can actually teach others.
And this has what to do with the fact that PUA tactics are emotionally stunting, and training for sociopathy?
Troy this article is timely and has great insights.
Many thanks
There was an 8 something sipping a drink once (big hair days way back) and I’d just thought of the line ”are you here alone or with a group of people” (wait for response & break in) ”me, I swear I have to bullshit so much, I mean I have to switch around my personality so much in this place, it’s like . . I AM MY OWN GROUP OF PEOPLE!!” (she giggled & turned & I made like I was beaming in on another girl). Later I left the club alone thinking I had blown the night, and while outside she comes up surprise and takes my wrists and literally pins me against the wall with arms out like Jesus and presses her front against mine and says into my face ”you are fucking crazy” and stares into my eyes for about a munite breathing right in my mouth practically. I’m thinking, right, she’s one of the ones that I did the ‘group of people’ bit on. My game at the time was ace openers but closing was luck. Had arrogant but not genuine asshole game. It’s funny how she came back like that with one line. Boomerang game maybe or maybe a seed was planted in her mind. Still don’t know.
You were raped (according to SJWs today) and you enjoyed it.
Women love to be dominated. So dominate them.
Unless you are a sociopath, it is hard to completely fake it for any meaningful period of time. I think the author had it right that it is about turning up the volume on those aspects of your personality that will attract women while muting the less desirable qualities.
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One of the hardest changes is for certified introverts to learn to extrovert. I fall into that category with about 20% of the population. It took me a few years to train myself to extrovert. I am still me, but I have a shit load more fun at parties and much more success with women, but a few hours of that will completely drain my psychic batteries and then I need alone time to recharge.
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Some epiphanies are truly life changing, but mostly you need to find the game that works for you. I agree with Mistral here that swallowing the red pill does not really change you, it unleashes you.
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Back a while ago there was a discussion about comebacks to shit tests and the like. If a girl says something like “so I guess you are a player”, my response is, “no, I am a game designer.” One member here thought that response was a bit much until I pointed out that I AM a game designer (board games with an iPad release later this month). That’s just a story; my point here is that you have to design your own game and run with it.
I’m an introvert as well. Still haven’t got being more extroverted down yet. Hard to when just chilling alone is so much more appealing in almost every way
Join Toastmasters or the varsity debating team. That helps a lot.
Great article and excellent advice. I have been guilty of regressing to somewhat of a “nice guy default” state during past relationships with women, with the idea that once I’d gotten past initial barriers with game tactics, clown entertaining etc, it was better to shelve the “clown game” with the goal of developing a sustained relationship with a woman of value (as opposed to pump and dump). The result has been more often than not less interest from the woman – it is a flawed strategy
Yea I use to read PUA articles and watch videos and try to develop some “game” when I was much younger.
Over the years, I took a good look around me and realized that most guys that I knew that had hot girlfriends/wives met them through a social circle. The “PUA” crap is directed towards guys trying to cold approach or meet women that are complete strangers that are NOT associated with any social circle they are a part of. Women tend to be less inclined to go out with a guy that isn’t associated with any social circle they are a part of.
Years ago, when I was about 29-30, I dated and banged a 22 year old super-hot young tight n’ tan girl with a perfect ass. She could definitely get any guy she wanted. How did I get her? Because she was the sister of the girl that my best friend was dating. I met her through a social circle I was a part of. All I did was say “hi” to her one night when she was hanging out with us. It took no game or anything at all. If I had just been some random guy at a bar that tried to hit on that same 22 year old, she never would have given me the time of day.
When my sister was younger, she got hit on all the time. Went through strings of boyfriends dumping one after another. Every single guy she was ever with including the guy she married was part of her multiple interlocking social circles. One time she did give her # out to a guy in a bar. The guy started calling the house after that and I was told not to answer the phone. I asked my sister why she gave her # out if she wasn’t interested in the guy. She said she just gave her # out because she was feeling sorry for herself that night and had too much to drink. But she said she didn’t know who the guy was therefore she wasn’t interested in getting to know him. <—–And I’ll bet that poor random guy was a PUA student.
This is a very good point. A lot of guys end up getting hot girlfriends not out of any “alpha” traits or Game .. but simply luck.. being in the right place.. in the right social circle.. at the right time.
So what do us guys who are older and don’t have that social circle anymore do? And what about the guys who don’t have a particularly large social circle to begin with? They’re pretty much fucked.. unless they try cold approaches.. which has a very low chance of success, even for seasoned Game veterans.
“disparaging humour, entitlement, and arrogance.” This has tremendously helped my game. Although not even close to my potential in every facet of life, I have seen “gains.” I’m unapologetic to women and that surprises them and also gives them tingles. I enjoy challenging them, keeping them on their heels. This creates a short circuit in their brains and makes their hamster skip a step or two. This is a foreign feeling to them (and they love it) because most guys just stick to the same old script.
Great article!
My stance on this whole issue is that game and self-improvement CHANGES “yourself”. Everyone’s brains have neuroplasticity. By actively LIVING your desired lifestyle, and living the touch choices and actions that the transition to that new personality requires, you will actively BECOME that new person. Shut out any limiting or needlessly worrying thoughts from your old self that don’t actively help you.
By following those principles I HAVE noticed a distinct shift in my natural, normal personality, and I like that. The dissociation has all but disappeared. Of course I still remember where I came from and what it took to get there, but I don’t have any desire to go back.
Neurplasticity works both ways – for better or worse. Look how the Swedish males with Viking ancestry have had their brains uniformly rolled like a ball of elastic silly putty and flattened. The war against men there waged by aggressive propagandized barking females and the everpresent threat of bitch law eviscerating them for non compliance deals a constant jackhammer shock blow to the brain. The result is like Muhammad Ali receiving multiple concussions or like a military serviceman developing PTSD rather than processing the stimuli and correcting the insurmountable situation. It’s the kind of thing that stirs resistance and breeds mass movements and revolutions when thresholds are exceeded.
This is flawed logic and puts women on a pedestal. The author says to hide qualities that will cause a vagina Sahara. I disagree why do women like the so called jock? Becuase he makes no special considerations for her, he is real. He shows himself the full real self. The guy who is unsuccessful with women hides himself and presents a fake version meant to mirror the women and she cannot stand it becuase she sees herself unless she is a narcissist it will repel her. Women love the opposite of themselves, do not hide yourself. Becuase that’s why women love men becuase we are men, women hide there flaws. Every thing is a secret with then. Men are out there not hiding. men have confidence in them selves. Think of your genitals it hangs out visible not hidden. The women is inside her hidden. Be a man, do not hide flaws thinking they will repel. The narcissistist must see themSelves to be drawn in. Paying another man teach you how to get women is as beta as you can get, and you deserve to get your money took. And your girl banged because you are a sucker .
I’ve thought of that as well, that women want the Things they Lack. Women just want a Man who acts like a Man, a Man doesn’t have to go through a “Persona-Deck of cards”playing multiple characters to please different women, a Man just acts like a Man, he offers the Truth about who he is and he doesn’t apologize.
I agree a little with both sides here–on the one hand I feel much free-er and masculine acting the way I do now with women and my life but on the other hand I think the alpha male type who gets laid every night is not the kind of guy I would want for a good friend. There may be an advantage to being aloof and flakey and unreliable with women because you always have to make them feel the drama but you don’t want that behavior in a male friend. I think the pussy hound type guy doesn’t have the qualities I would want in a colleague, friend, employee. I didn’t word that very well but I’m tired as fuck. Basically the behaviors that get you laid are also somewhat anti-social and wouldn’t be rewarded by other men.
One observation on taking the red pill though: Any stories of
Oneitis have no effect on your emotions. In the past, I’d hear stories about guys being mistreated by women and feel sadness and sympathy for the guy, or try to help him get the girl back. Now, any story I hear about that I think dude, move on, she’s not worth it, I don’t care who she was, what she looks like, how good a dick she sucks, how much you love her, forget her. I almost can’t feel sorry for a guy except in cases of serious divorce rape or sabotaging his freedom or access to kids because once you know the true nature of women, you must realize that anything is possible at any moment, no matter how good you think things are going and no matter how long you’ve been together.
This is soo funny. I understand this author totally
Ok so I am in my mid 20’s and I feel like I have found the red pill late, with that being said I have read all these things about how a man should be, the self improvement aspect for oneself I agree 100% and since following a lot of those tips I have changed for the better.
One aspect I have not improved the way I want is women, granted I have made some big improvements in attitude and my interactions with them but right now I am stuck, this one damn girl…
So this one girl we started as friends, then really good friends, now its to the point where I really fucking like her but she has a man, we had some on and off stuff here and there and I know that she likes me so I told my friend that I like her too much and probably gotta stay away as she is not responding in the way I want, so I completely ignored her and not not give a shit (deep down it hurt), she kept trying to get my attention and asking if im mad at her, just kept it cool and kept it moving, my friend ended up telling her what I said and she confronted me about what I feel.
We went on a little lunch that day and got a few drinks, both drunk we held hands, hugged, cuddled, both told each other we like one another and all that, in the end we hugged and looked at each other as too kiss, she said she cant because its complicated, I smiled and walked off, I should have just damn kissed her (sigh), she text me afterwords how she missed that and what not.
So here I am thinking all is good and I’ll get her, I decide to be nice to her and go after her for a bit as that is not usually who I am, I am not one to spill my emotions and show what I feel, I ask her to go on lunch, I text her, what happens? She is not giving me that attention as much now, flaked on a lunch she said she would go to, and now we arent even talking like before.
So I keep telling myself, fuck this, do I have to become an asshole? While I am generally a naturally stoic person I am also nice, I have always respected women and am not really one to go for it so fast or aggressively but now I guess I am seeing the error of my ways, what is the problem then? It “feels” weird to me, I have never been to the one talk about sex like that, never been the one to just grab and kiss a girl out of nowhere.
Dont get me wrong I am not a complete pussy and not completly a nice guy but I have some definite flaws I need to change. I wonder what being an “asshole” really means though? Do I just ignore her and move on with my life or be a dick to her and really fucking show her what I want? Obviously being nice with her is not working, obviously reaching out to her is not working even though that is what she keeps bothering me about when I dont give her attention, maybe I need to start truly not giving a shit and show her what I really want.
In my mind I cant picture what I want to be but when it comes down to it it just feels foreign to me, one thing I will say is that when drunk apparently I become an asshole and really dont give a fuck, like really I literally dont.
Yes I know this is a classic case of oneitis but goddamn its harder than I thought, I was one of those “I would never let that happen to me, aint no woman gonna….” guys….
“whatever you do don’t decide to drop game and “just be yourself.” Women won’t thank you for it and you will quickly find yourself as lonely ”
Yup, I learned that the hard way once. When I was younger, I had a overwhelmingly gorgeous girl dropping her panties every time I came around. Had a great thing going for months and getting fabulously laid every fucking day– and then blew it all in one stupid night by questioning the whole thing.
A shame. But a good life lesson. And one that I’ll be passing on to my sons, for certain.