178 thoughts on “How To Obtain And Use Testosterone For Male Birth Control”

1. If you are on enough fitness boards you can just get an overseas source.
   Mine`s in Egypt.
   Customs won“t hold you up unless youre ordering enough to make a living selling it here.
   Test is the bomb. I`m really surprised you didnt talk about nolvodex though – dat pct is really important yo
   Also: I only take ADex if I am experiencing symptoms of higher estrogen like bloating or itchy nips. You seriously run adex the whole time?

   1. If you’re taking test for birth control, there is no PCT, you never come off. You also don’t take nearly as much as a bodybuilder would, so you don’t have some of the more significant sides.
      Yes, I take Adex continually. If you are introducing extra test into the body (taking your body over what it would normally make) you’re going to also have more estrogen. You need something like Adex, Letro or other drugs to control that, and, you need to stay on those drugs non-stop to prevent the estrogen from taking hold. It’s not a “one and done” thing, it’s part of the protocol.

      1. Untrue. Some guys have zero issue with estogen. A blood test reveals this.
         I can run 250 mg test/week and not need any anti-e. That’s why blood work is essential and going on “feel” is nonsense.

         1. Here I will agree. There are some guys (a small number, IMHO) who can take 250/wk without an anti-E. I had a buddy who could do this, his E was high, but he didn’t feel any of the sides and liked the water in his joints. He was also very thin (the more fat you have, the more you’ll have problems with E, in general).
            Going on “feel” for a newbie is not a good idea. Once you understand how you feel high E and low E, most guys can go on feel from then on out. Not that blood work isn’t good too, but, you’re just catching a single snapshot, Adex only works for a few days, what are you going to do, take a blood test every 3 days for the rest of your life? At some point, you have to start doing it by “feel”, once you learn how you react to high and low E situations.
            The problem is that you, and many others, are looking to dump an entire lifetime of steroid knowledge into a guy who just wants to take some test and become sterile. Is the protocol above perfect for everyone? No. Is it better than nothing, and put someone on a start to figure it out for themselves? Absolutely.
            A lot of bodybuilders want to make this shit way too complicated. Trust me, I was one of them, taking test, anadrol, deca; rolling in and out of peptides, estrogen pre contest, estrogen bulking, prolactin control… Blah, blah, blah.. All really important to know and understand if you want to be the next Ronnie Coleman. If you just want to stop your balls from making sperm, what I posted above, while not a “bible” of knowledge, will get a guy to a doctor with the right script, knowing what to expect, and get them rolling with a simple program to control their fertility.
            Don’t over complicate it, it’s not designed to be the next Mr. Olympia program. 😉

         2. This isn’t a game to me. Spare me the wink faces.
            Where is your blood work?
            Mine has been posted many times.
            Let’s see yours. All of it.

2. Just get a vasectomy, its reversible.

   1. Did it, love it, best decision of my life. Being able to bust nuts and never ever worry is the best thing. I’ll never get it reversed, reversal success rates are minuscule and extremely expensive. Plus I don’t want to anyway, lol.

   2. Reversal is very expensive and difficult. Also, the longer since your procedure, the more likely they can’t reverse it. If you ever want to have kids, don’t get a vas thinking “I’ll just get it reversed” because, much like a chick riding the carousel until 40 and then deciding to “settle down and get pregnant” time and odds ARE NOT on your side.
      If you never want kids, by all means, get the cut, it’s cheap and remarkably effective.

      1. What about “frozen pop”? That is, get some good sperm samples frozen in nitrogen, like what is done at sperm banks, and then just sit on it for as long as needed. I would even say that if a fellow at say 20 does this, and has to wait 15 years to get his druthers in and find a suitable mate, he has 15 less years of epigenetic damage to his seed going in and reduces the chances of ending up with a hand-flapping autist for a kid.

         1. A good option, but, as I understand it, expensive. However, likely less expensive over a long term than using test to make yourself sterile. All in all, something that guys should look at who are on the fence about this. That said, I have no idea how successful they are in inseminating an egg with frozen sperm (and for how long, how old can the sperm be?). If you’re going down that route, you’d have to do some research and figure that out.

3. You know our society has become true absurdity when trips to the doctor involve multiple layers of lying and acting on top of payments in order to receive a medication/substance which will positively benefit your life. I’m sick of these doctors who are government gatekeepers. Legalize test, benzos, and painkillers and let’s see if these doctors can actually provide a benefit.

   1. Couldn’t agree more. Especially when a woman can just waltz in and ask for the female equivalent without so much as an eyelash batted; but, when a man wants the same thing (his primary hormone to be able to control his fertility) it takes a few acting classes to get yourself ready for the trip to the Dr. The hypocrisy is simply mind boggling.

      1. Man with legit low Test: Doc, I feel like shit, I’m depressed, I’m losing strength, my hard-ons are nowhere near as rigid as they used to be, so I got my Testosterone checked and I have the levels of a 70 year old man, but I’m 42. I need test, Doc.
         Doc: Eh, here’s viagra/cialis/other bullshit that won’t do a god damn thing for you. Bye.
         [Woman enters office]
         Woman: Doctor, I’m a gay man trapped in a lesbian woman’s body.
         Doc: Here’s your script.
         da fuck is this bullshit…..

         1. You’re so beta if you’re too big of a pussy to be able to get low-test meds and you’re a man.
            I don’t think horse steroids would help you be even a fraction of a man if you’re mad women get birth control for reduced cost.

         2. Go to a clinic instead of a “regular” doctor. Most regular docs know exactly shit about test, either using it to replace lost hormones as you age or using it as birth control. Getting test from a “normal” doc requires incredibly tight game and really, really good luck/timing. If you can do it, it’s awesome because it’s so much cheaper. But it’s really hard to get them to do it, and, if you do, it’s even harder to get them to write injectable instead of creams (which, IMHO, aren’t worth it).
            The bullshit is so deep around this that you really need to bulldozer to try to clear you way through. Viagra/Cialis, while great, aren’t testosterone. They are also probably more dangerous than testosterone (people have actually died from the PDE5 inhibitors).

         3. right. that’s how things work. continue whining about how the whole world is against you.

      2. Feminists actively fought male birth control why wouldnt they fight testosterone?

         1. They are fighting it, which is why you need to go through the bullshit described above to try to get it. They also are fighting the knowledge getting out there that steroids work as male birth control. They want to keep all the agency for children firmly with women.

      3. wait a minute. hypocrisy? who the hell gets pregnant and winds up responsible for the kid MOST of the time? you think ANY woman with half a brain is EVER going to believe a guy who says he’s taking hormones and can’t get her pregnant? dear god, you guys are so delusional it’s unbelievable.

   2. All this trouble just for men to take control of their reproductive rights. The usual for a society that, for anything a woman wants it’s “You go grrl” but for men they shriek patriarchy and misogyny.

   3. I had an old friend, recently deceased, with an opioid/benzo habit. Guess which sex provided all his pills? Doctors seemed to have no trouble writing HUGE scripts of these powerfully addicting drugs to women; a script for 5 hydrocodone was about the best my male friend could convince them to do.

   4. Its worse now before you could buy legit overseas drugs without script. Nowthey are using the duopoly visa mastercard to enforce the script requirement(when i asked the company i buy from about it they told me i was fine because i had bought from them before). They dont want your damn prescription!

   5. I feel ya, but in the end it’s OUR fault. Women organize and get lobbyist to push their agenda. Men simply tolerate it.
      In fact as we all know, it was men who made it the way it is now.

4. Testosterone is a MIRACLE drug for older men. I believe most male adults 30+ should have access to it. It is ridiculous how women can easily get estrogen and its derivatives, yet it is insanely hard for us to get testosterone legally. You literally need to have the test levels of an old man to get them to prescribe it to you. I’m only 19, so I have a while before I will need Testosterone injections, but I am definitely getting on it when I am 30.

   1. It’s part of the oppression of men.

      1. Yes it is, simple as that.

         1. yes, yes. it’s as simple as that. oppressed men. lol. why haven’t i met any? a few whiners, yes, but oppressed? nah.

   2. I think 30 is taking it too far. As far as I know, you really get to low T leves into your 50s.
      Look at Stallone. At 68 he looks ripped and fit, thantks to testosterone and humang growth hormone. He should have gone slower with the botox and plastic surgerie, though.

      1. http://boldanddetermined.com/2012/08/19/low-testosterone-levels/
         Best article ever! Hope it changes your opinion. We have so much crap in today’s world that is lowering our testosterone.

      2. 30 “is too young” implies that there’s a “right age” to start test. I really don’t think there is (other than “after puberty”). If you take test at 25, it will make your sterile and, depending on the amount you take, also make you bigger. If you take it at 50, you’ll see a bigger “gain” for a smaller amount because your baseline is lower, but, does that mean that 50 is the right age?
         Listen, I don’t want to come off too cavalier here, test probably does have some cancer risk. But, here’s the thing, all the years it’s been out, and all the millions of people who’ve taken it (including people now taking it as Androgel, a terrible way to get testosterone that leads to very high estrogen in most cases) there’s not a single death that’s even indirectly attirbuted to test. Now, please don’t read this as “taking 10G a week is safe, Overtaxed said so”, because, at some level, everything becomes toxic.
         But, IMHO, test is a remarkably safe substance for most men. I wouldn’t have a problem with a guy who’s 20 deciding to follow this protocol if he wants the BC effects, IMHO, it’s probably safer than the female pill (although less effective, as mentioned above, this does NOT WORK for everyone).

5. Great article, also shows how overregulation and the nanny state in healthcare has gone out of control.

6. I want lots of children but I use T to space them out a little (one about every 2 years) and it’s worked like a charm so far. I don’t want to put the wife on anything (birth control fucks with women’s bodies and minds) and the T is a good thing to take for its own sake because of the good effects on muscle building, confidence, motivation, etc.

   1. I would love to get my woman off of the pill. Did you have to go through the rigmarole described above to get it?

      1. You haven’t seen anything yet, I’m going to put together a follow up to this describing “how to get it” for the first time if you can’t find a doc who will write for you. Its what I had to do and it’s a total nightmare. Short version, bring your test way down and get a test when you know you’ll show low. It’s a real PITA.
         I don’t know of another way to do this legally. Yes, you can get it from the “guy at the gym”. That’s fine and it’s how I got it for years. But, at some point, the risk is too high, test is a schedule III drug, if you get busted buying it, you’re life is going to take a real dive into the shitter. I fly a lot for work too (sitting on a plane right now) and need to be able to take needles/drugs onto a plane without worry, not going to happen if you have Mexican steroids, not a problem with a nice bottle from CVS.
         You can do this just as well with steroids from any source, if you have a buddy you trust and you’re willing to take the small risk to buy illegal, it will work just as well. This is intended for newbies who don’t “have a guy” but also don’t want to wind up with a pregnant wife/girlfriend. 😉

         1. I can only imagine. Have you heard of any doctors going rogue and prescribing testosterone as birth control? I’m thinking like those doctors who started writing scripts for medical marijuana. Somebody has to jump off the cliff first and I bet others would follow. Great article, btw.

         2. People fly with pre-loaded syringes without hassle. That is basic knowledge to anyone on TRT.
            Maybe you have an odd clinic.
            Let’s see some blood work please, as the info you posted is not credible.

         3. Refute it then. Tell us what we should be doing and how you do it.
            I’ve had several different clinics, but, yes, they could all be odd. What difference does it make, if they write you a script and charge you for the visit or just give you the test? Again, dude, add some value here, don’t just say “this doesn’t make sense”.
            You can fly with preloads, but, once again, if you do that without a script for test somewhere and raise an eyebrow in the airport, you’re fucked. I always fly with my bottle that has my name right on the side of it and empty syringes/needles.

         4. No, I have not heard of Dr’s doing it, but, I’m sure there are some out there. Shoot, I’m sure we have some Dr’s reading this blog shaking their heads right now. 🙂
            Unfortunately, in general, docs hate writing for test. Who knows why, it’s a “drug of abuse” and it makes them nervous because they don’t understand it. Frankly, those who should best understand it (endos) often make some really stupid mistakes when writing for it (like giving some test E and telling them to inject every 4 weeks, leading to a crazy roller coaster of test levels). Anti-aging clinics have a market because docs don’t want to write for test and HGH. So the clinic will do it, but at a much high price because of the greater “risk” involved for them.
            However, all that said, the winds of change are blowing here. Lots of family docs are writing for Androgel today, which, while a terrible way to take test, is, in fact, testosterone. So they are getting more used to it. And hopefully that trend will continue.

         5. Post your blood work.
            Right now you’re just an avatar giving out false info.

         6. And you’re a troll annoying me and not proving anything of value to add to the conversation and explain how you think it should be done and where I’m wrong and how you’d do it better.

         7. Shut up Mike. You just fucking want to sell gear through your affiliate market network so you say what you got to say to defend it. All about the dollar bills. How do we know your blood work’s real? Could be anyone’s you use.

         8. Is that a no in the blood work?
            I’d be happy to have a conversation once you show some evidence you didn’t just rewrite stuff you found online.
            As for me….Click on the disqus button. It’s really easy to find my blood work.

         9. Man Mike does this to fucking everyone. He makes big money off TRT sites so he fucking protects that. He’s threatened his competitor Tucker Max with a lawsuit and he’s on Twitter every fucking day running his mouth off about someone. The article was good so keep up the good work 🙂

         10. I’m a doc. Thanks for speaking for all of us–not. I write for trt with far more ease than I do female hrt and much less time counseling men than women because quite frankly hrt is more dangerous than trt by a significant margin. Perhaps it’s the steroids but you sound paranoid and delusional about the medical community because they aren’t giving you what YOU think is best for you. Dude, there is no feminist medical conspiracy to deny you trt. You are playing with fire and consoling yourself with your delusions that the medical community knows less than you do and that they are withholding the truth because of some misandric conspiracy. Hormone abuse is dangerous in the hands of amateurs. Period. If you want to convince yourself that we are all a bunch of feminist male hating greedy bastards, it’s your body, do as you wish.

         11. I’m not saying that you (doctors are feminists). I’m saying that the laws surrounding TRT vs HRT are clearly feminist and result in a lot of docs that won’t write for TRT and know very little about it as compared to HRT for women.
             Here’s the starting point. Testosterone is a schedule III substance. Estrogen is unscheduled. That’s a really big gap in the perceived danger and difficulty in obtaining these drugs. Lots of docs go to jail every year for writing “too many” steroids. I’ve never heard of a single doc going to jail for writing “too much” estrogen.
             “Perhaps it’s the steroids but you sound paranoid”
             Really dude? Your a doctor and the best you’ve got is a personal attack in the 3rd sentence? How about you tell us something useful, what do you look for before you write for TRT? Would you write for someone 30 years old that shows low total T/free T but off levels of FSH? Would the “trenbolone trick” work to get you to write?
             “Hormone abuse is dangerous in the hands of amateurs.”
             Well, you’re not an amateur, please help us understand how to do this the way that you would recommend.
             “withholding the truth because of some misandric conspiracy.”
             There’s no question, in my mind, that the truth about how testosterone functions as male birth control for most men has been withheld. Go ask 100 men, see how many know that test is good birth control, likely statistically superior to anything out there for men today absent a vasectomy. Would you write test for a guy who came in and just wanted it for BC? But, on the flip side, I’m sure you’d write BC for women who come in presenting the same “problem” every day.
             It’s not you that I have issue with, and thank you for being one of the docs who’s happy to hand out TRT to men who want it.
             “medical community knows less than you do”
             I would never claim this in general, I have lots of doctors as friends and they are, in general, very smart people. However, testosterone has been “demonized” for so long that most docs have little/no training in how it works/how to write for it and little interest in learning more (because of the high schedule of the drug and the stigma of becoming the “steroid doc”). Just do some reading online, there are countless stories out there about men who went to an endo (not even a GP) and were put on 200mgs of test E injected 1X per month. If you know ANYTHING about testosterone replacement, you’ll know that’s a terrible protocol. And yet it seems to happen every single day to men all over the country. And look at the number of scripts for Androgel compared to the number for test E. Androgel is a terrible product, it has lots of downsides, costs a lot more than test E, has transfer liability, and, frankly (this part IMHO) should only be written if the patient has a contradiction to injectable test E. And yet there are PCPs writing 10 scripts a week for Androgel and 0 scripts a year for test E. That’s a shocking lack of understanding, and it’s very pervasive across doctors.
             All this said, thank you for helping men get on TRT, it sounds like you’re one of the educated and helpful docs out there for men who are interested in this, and, for that, we are all grateful.

         12. You are correct that the medical community under prescribes testosterone but it is controlled substance because men abuse it. Women do not abuse estrogen. Pretty simple. The DEA schedules medications because of their abuse potential and the health implication of that abuse. Men abuse testosterone with devastating consequences.
             Is it possible that some man might study the implications of hormone replacement therapy (or more appropriately supplementation therapy as most guys have low test because they are obese -adipose tissue is estrogenic- and sit on their asses all day and eat horrible soy containing foods) and become an expert and know more than the endocrinologist? Yes that is possible. Should we make laws concerning dangerous and potentially fatal substances based on the assumption that everyone is that self-educated man. Absolutely not!!!! I
             n medicine, we deal with the health of *populations* not just individuals and populations are not educated enough to treat themselves with testosterone, hence the laws. In my opinion, aspirin is too much for most morons in this country. Every year I put at least 3-4 people in the ICU for bleeding ulcers and kidney failure for thinking “if one aspirin is good (read testosterone) then 50 must be better!”
             To advocate people assume control of their own health because “they read an article” is a sign of our times. No one is an expert anymore–if a doctor claims to know more than you then they are oppressing you. Men can be pretty little snowflakes and solipsistic and self involved just as women are. Believe me, I believe in men’s rights every bit as much as anyone on this site. I also believe that men’s health is inexcusably neglected compared to women’s health. But I also think you have an ideologically driven rationalization for you advice. There are a lot of things people want to do and doctors won’t do for them for a reason–primum non nocere. Amphetamines also make men feel a lot better, have a leaner body mass and more energy, but we don’t prescribe those because science has proven they are dangerous. In my eyes, supplementing testosterone to levels sufficient to cause sterility is as of right now, with current SCIENTIFIC knowledge (randomized double blinded placebo controlled studies) too dangerous to be experimented with by the general public. People do things like that all the time and honestly, I don’t care, it keeps me in business. My only concern is what this trend is saying about our society as a whole–if the doctors won’t do it for me because I WANT IT NOW!!!!–then it must be a conspiracy or feminist control or some other partially rational reason to give the individual the warm and fuzzes to allow them to continue along the path of self-fulfillment despite the very real dangers it represents.
             A society agrees to limit individual action for the benefit of the whole, public health is founded on that principle. I know that is asking for way too much self-control for most rabid libertarians and self-sufficiency advocates who are not only healthily skeptical but who downright refute medical knowledge that requires accepting facts not immediately verifiable to their senses (I have no idea what your political leaning is and its irrelevant). But societies (and public health) only works when individuals defer to the good of the whole. Supplement away and get as many guys as you want to join you, nothing I say is going to stop anyone here. I always get a chuckle when I see people take their health into their own hands.

      2. No, I get it from a gym friend. I don’t use it as above. I cycle on and off and do it for exercise purposes rather than for birth control, the birth control is just another side effect, but like I said above I want lots of kids anyways so it doesn’t matter much to me if it works as birth control or not. I like the children spaced every 2 – 2 1/2 years but if that doesn’t work out, no biggie. It’s worked so far though.

7. I think every man should take a look at this site and also research RISUG. The method explained at the site has ALREADY been proven effective long term in India under the name RISUG, but the FDA refused to accept the research findings from India. A non-profit group here in the United States has taken on the project and if all goes well it should be out in the market by 2017. It really is a fascinating story.
   http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/vasalgel-home/
   Those of you that just want a run down, it’s essentially a no scalpel vasectomy where they inject a polymer into your vas deferens (it does not act as a plug rather it destroys the sperm that go through so there are far fewer side effects than a true vasectomy). It is as effective as a vasectomy where they cut the vas deferns, but much more reversible because they can wash the polymer out whenever you want to have kids.
   In my opinion this can be the future because even young men would be able to use it to prevent high school pregnancies, even college pregnancies, and all men can use this to prevent there being “accidental” pregnancies.

   1. It could be the future. I read that the main reason it hasn’t gained traction in the western world is small financial incentive. Female contraceptives and condoms have been available for decades, and are cheap, while there seems to be a small market for a male contraceptive.

      1. That’s not true. There’s a huge market for male contraceptives, as proven by the number of condoms and vasectomies performed. IMHO, the reason that there’s not more options for men is really that society does not want men to have the choice. We are “comfortable” trapping men with children and, given that 50%+ of our next generation is an “oops” the idea of good male birth control is simply a non-starter, the country would fold in 20-30 years if our birthrate was cut in 1/2 (as it likely would be if you could easily go to the Dr and get something like this or the female pill, easy to use, and, most importantly, undetectable).

8. More power to you guys for giving this a go, but I personally can’t stand steroids. Steroids are like breast implants, in how they dilute the gene pool. They fool people with better genetics in to breeding with people who are naturally inferior. Totally understand why people do this sort of thing, but with scientific enhancement of our species becoming so rampant, who knows what will happen as a result. Reminds me of the Chinese guy who sued his wife for bearing ugly children, after he realized her looks were solely a result of extensive plastic surgery.

   1. Deception in reproduction is not new, nor was it invented by humans. Lots of animals try to make themselves look more genetically superior. Women are the absolute worst at this. Fake face (makeup), fake hair color (blonde is signal of youth), fake youth (botox), fake boobs, fake ass, fake everything. Yet they still dare say they want a “real man.” 😉

   2. What about the women who wear make up, heels, fake nails, fake hair, fake eyelashes, dyes, push up bras, spanx, fake tits, fake ass etc. I’m genuinely surprised when a women doesn’t look good with all the shit they can use to make themselves attractive.

      1. That was exactly my point, don’t be the male version of that

   3. You’re somewhat off the mark here. People who have superior genetics actually have the best response to steroids. If you go to any serious or hardcore gym you would be surprised at the amount of guys in there who are on dosages close to what pro body builders take, yet they look nowhere near as big or as good as them. The thought that you can simply dump truck loads of testosterone, HGH, and insulin in your body and look like Jay Cutler is completely delusional. If you aren’t a genetic freak it’s not happening. There are ways to fool mother nature but steroids is not one of them.

      1. I would agree with everything you said, doesn’t mean it’s worth it for anybody but pro athletes

   4. You work harder on steroids than those without. Its not a shortcut beta.

      1. Your late nights commenting on the internet screams alpha bro

9. You could inject yourself with a bunch of steroids…or just use a condom

   1. First off, this is not a “bunch of steroids”. It’s a small amount of one steroid (testosterone) and a drug to control estrogen.
      Condoms are a great option. We still have 50%+ our our children being unplanned/unwanted. Your solution is to just keep saying “use a condom” instead of providing other (better, IMHO) alternatives? My goal with getting this information out there is not to make everyone a juiced up meathead, it’s to make sure that men know they can control their fertility and CHOOSE if/when they want to become parents. You know, the same thing that’s been available to women for 50 years now.
      You could just not have sex too, that has a 0% failure rate! 😉

      1. Condoms are the best and simplest solution. Just put a piece of plastic on your dick and you’re protected from unwanted pregnancy and std’s, except in the off chance it breaks. Unplanned pregnancies happen because of stupidity, not the failure of condoms.
         Do you honestly believe that playing with your hormones to the point that you become infertile is in any way healthy?

         1. That is for you to decide. I’m only explaining how to do it. In my opinion, I’m happier, in better shape, and healthier than I was years ago when I started doing this. Most people on test would say something pretty similar to that.

   2. Condom use is not foolproof. There are crazy women who fish them out of the trash. Haven’t u listened to Leykis, bro?

      1. omg.

10. Do you have some blood work to post? This post is full of misinformation. I’m on a phone and don’t have time to refute it all. Let’s see some lab work.
    1. TRT clinics don’t make much profit off of test, Testosteone is genetic. Margins are low. The profit is in consults.
    2. Most clinics have a cut-off of 500 ng/dl for a T level.
    3. A clinic will test your LH and FSH. Those will not be low (absent some underlying medical problem). So a clinic won’t just run labs on test and write a script.
    4. You don’t “feel” estrogen. The same TRT clinic will test that. Actual blood work.
    Let’s see some blood work showing you actually go to a clinic as this is full of nonsense and bad and outdated info.

    1. Yes, I do have blood work and would be happy to post my initial and follow up E2 levels. My initial T level was about 600, IIRC.
       On to your points:
       1) I can’t refute this, I’m sure there are some clinics that work this way. In the years I’ve been doing this, across 4 different clinics, none of them worked on a “consult” basis, they made their profit by selling the drugs. None of them would write a script to go to CVS and pick up, they all had “captive” pharmacies and charged 110-200 per 10ML, a markup of ~300% over what you could get it for if they’d just write you a script and let you go to CVS or a compounding pharmacy.
       2) Some do. All of the ones that I’ve used do not, but, as I mentioned in the post, if they “care” about your testosterone level, there’s more work to be done. It’s easy to manipulate your levels using legally obtainable drugs, which is what I intend to cover in a follow-up post. It’s worth it, especially since you only have to do it once. For those who want to jump ahead, Google “Finaplix”.
       3) Again, you can manipulate these levels and drive them up/down as necessary. I’ve NEVER heard of a clinic not writing when you walk in with a <100 total T level but normal LS/FSH. But, I suppose there might be one out there.
       4) Have you ever been on test? Because, i can assure you, you ABSOLUTELY do “feel” your estrogen level. And yes, I also use blood work (which, again, I’ll be happy to post) because until you become experienced, high and low E2 both kind of feel the same, you need to get your levels several times to understand how your body reacts. But, I’ll tell you what, if you don’t think you can “feel” your E2 level being too high or too low, I’ll be happy to send you some Letro, take 10mgs (enough to take your estrogen to 0) and then let me know how you can’t “feel” low estrogen. That is, once you can move your fingers again because all your joints will be so dry that typing will sound like firecrackers going off.
       BTW, just to put some good information in this post, I use a company called “Walk in Labs” to order my E2 tests. You want the standard E2 test, not the sensitive. E2 testing, BTW, is notriously unreliable. Use it as a “guide” not a concrete number. If you come back at “5”, lay off the Adex. If you come back at “100”, pump a lot of Adex in. But if you come back at 50 (which is high) but feel good, I wouldn’t suggest going nuts trying to get your number “right”. Everyone is different.
       The blood panel that I typically use:
       http://www.walkinlab.com/anti-aging/estradiol-blood-test.html
       “This post is full of misinformation. I’m on a phone and don’t have time to refute it all.”
       Please, illuminate all of us.

       1. Post your blood work. I post mine.

          1. Not sure what we’re trying to prove by posting bloodwork, but, at the same time, in the interest of keeping the conversation rolling, here are some bloods that I can get to from 30K feet. The one with all the tests is my “before TRT” test. The E2 test is the one that I do frequently to monitor my levels and make sure I’m taking an appropriate amount of Adex.

          2. One double posted..

          3. Blood work is needed because anyone can pretend he knows about TRT. I can’t see the images (mobile), but if they are legit, thank you.
             Your TRT experience is far different from mainstream.
             But if you proved you’re the real deal, great. Thank you.
             You said you go off of feel for estrogen but then posted labs for E2?
             And you got tested for LH but never mentioned that in your article?
             Could just be inartful writing.
             TRT is serious man, and I don’t like seeing bunk info posted that could mess guys up.
             Anyone can go online and spin articles.
             So it’s reasonable to provide some verifiable information.

          4. Actually you can feel estrogen and I’m beginning to realize this is actually the best way to regulate it. No morning wood, emotional nightmares, and water bloat are good signs of high estrogen. No morning wood, passive/zombie like emotional state, and very dry joints that hurt badly are good signs of low estrogen. Strong morning wood every morning, strong libido, no water bloat, and a confident and stable mood are all signs of an optimal estrogen level.
             I have read TRT cases where men’s blood work showed their estrogen was slightly high on paper but they had all the signs of an optimal estrogen level. When they went to lower their estrogen slightly they began to get low estrogen symptoms even though the blood work showed it was not low. Point is, is that some men’s body seems to respond to estrogen differently which is why I think the best way to regulate estrogen is simply by how you feel.
             I get blood work every few months, but I don’t care what the blood work says. If my libido is strong, I’m getting strong morning wood every day, my testosterone is high, and I feel great then I know my estrogen is at the level that my body wants it to be despite what the bloodwork says. I know how high estrogen feels and its a night and day difference compared to a optimal estrogen level.

          5. I go off feel for E2 because I’ve been doing it long enough to know “what it feels like” for me, when I’m too high or low. But yes, I do get tested using “Walk in Labs” usually (because it’s cheap, around 50 bucks) once a year and whenever I feel like I need it.
             Listen, I think we have the same goal here. In the end, I’d love to tell everyone everything I know about steroids; how to use them, and how to cycle them for the best effect. Thing in, most people won’t sit still that long. They want to know “what to take and when to take it”. Now, for bodybuilding level doses, I’d never co-sign that bullshit, it’s too risky and you stand a good chance of gyno, ripped joints, or other problems. But, IMHO, for TRT or slightly supra-physiological (which is where 240mg/wk will take most guys, 1500 or so total test), I think it’s better to boil it down to “take this, adjust as necessary” rather than trying to jam the anabolic bible down their throat.
             Here’s the thing. I really believe that anyone reading my article and the comments below is going to know more than 95% of doctors out there. There are some really good TRT docs, they are few and far between. Most docs just want to throw you on Androgel (with no E2 control or HTPA support) which, for a multitude of reasons, is a really shitty option.
             Good info about TRT/steroids is very hard to come by. Especially using them to suppress spermogenesis, there’s almost nothing out there at all. I’m not a “know everything” guy when it comes to steroids, but, I’ve been using them for years, and after I finished bodybuilding, have been on TRT for a long time as well. I hope my experience and protocol will help other men start down this path if they feel it’s right for them.

          6. I can’t read it, blurry, but take you on your word now that you are at a TRT clinic.
             As to my earlier points. Why did you just tell guys to get T measured when anti-aging clinic is going to measure FSH and LH (and often SHBG)?
             Clinics are cracking down on giving T to anyone with a T level over 500, as TRT is not approved to treat aging. It’s approved to treat hypogonadism. A total T level (assuming free T is good) over 500 is going to be a hard sell for hypogonadism.
             Anyhow, thanks for your labs. Like I said, I post mine and think it’s essential that anyone who writes about this stuff proves they aren’t spinning articles ala the 4 Hour Workweek.

          7. Yes, I see this was your first article.
             I take it you left stuff out rather than overload guys. (Hence the stuff about FSH/LH.)
             Makes sense now. You just took a differnt approach.
             Different from mine but that doesn’t make it wrong.
             Thanks again for those labs.

          8. Once you have a good “feel” for it, I agree, regulating it that was is the only way, IMHO, to do it. Thing is, labs are great, but they don’t tell you how you feel, and you also can’t get them every day. Your E2 level changes every single day. Some days you might feel really watery and need more Adex. Other days you feel very dry and might back it down/not take it. It works pretty fast (24 hours usually for me) so you can make adjustments as needed.
             The other thing that’s useful for me is the scale. If I bomb (low) my E2, I’ll lose a ton of weight really fast. Before I knew the “feel” of low E2, I’d look at my weight; losing 3-4 lbs in 24 hours told me I was going too low.
             The final thing, the E2 test is notriously inaccurate. There have been guys who’ve done the test twice in the same day at 2 different labs and gotten totally different results. I use it as a “guidepost” not a “hard marker”. Most of the time I do bloods now is because “something doesn’t feel right”, either I’m not horny, I’m achy, I’m irritable, I’m gaining weight, feeling lazy… That’s usually when I’ll go in and try to get some tests to find out if something is off.

          9. Yeah, the “over 500” problem requires more creativity. I’m sure you’ll know what I’m talking about here, but Finaplix is readily available (without a script) and just a week or 2 of that will take you test down to nothing. You’ll feel like death, but you only need to do it once, and, if you really want legal test, it’s worth the sacrifice. Some guys I know have had to do this. I suggest you first exhaust all options on finding a clinic (that will write for people with higher test levels) especially since you very rarely (if ever) need to go there after the initial consult.
             And yes, a clinic is going to measure FSH/LH/SHBG and all the other stuff that you see on the bloods I posted. Thing is, most clinics (none that I’ve ever been to) gave a flying fuck about those results. They care “is this level low enough for me to write”. Clinics are in the business to get customers and sell drugs or appointments. If they won’t write for what you want, they know you’ll just go elsewhere, so there’s a lot of pressure on them to “play ball”. This is a real problem when it comes to pain clinics, or a real nice thing when it comes to anti-aging clinics.

          10. Yep. We disagree on a few things but now that I know you’re legit I’d rather focus on what we agree on. Welcome to the party.
              FYI, I have a bunch of TRT info too. Again, it differs from you but I don’t care.
              Just glad to see the information get out.

          11. In case anybody is thinking ” How can there be no morning wood if there is less estrogen?”, as if morning wood is antithetical to the role of estrogen, be advised that we produce more estrogen than women but we convert it to testosterone hence estrogen is the basis so being short on that means you get short on the other.

          12. I think you have that backwards. We don’t produce more estrogen and convert it to test, we produce more test which is aromotized (broken down) to estrogen. That’s why when you take more test most people wind up with more estrogen as well. That’s also why it’s variable, people have different levels of the chemicals that provide this reaction in the body, some people convert lots of test into estrogen and need more blockers, some do not. Arimidex blocks this conversion by inactivating the chemicals responsible for this reaction, leading to less estrogen (E2) in the body.

          13. There are many men on successful TRT programs without ever touching an AI… Why would you recommend to “start off” at .5mg of such a potent drug when it may not even be needed? Not criticizing just asking for clarification… One of my biggest mistakes was getting on Arimidex and then doing that whole “feel” thing which is frustrating and causes indecision… Isn’t better to start of without it and see if labs indicate that it is necessary?

          14. The fear of not using Adex (or some other anti-estrogen) from the start is that estrogen can cause some real nastiness that’s really hard to fix down the road (gyno). I’d always suggest erring on the side of “more suppression” than less. Also, the doses that I’m recommending are really above “standard” TRT levels; if you only replace what’s naturally there and don’t take your test level over ~1000 or so, you may not need an anti-E.
              The thing I’d recommend, if you don’t want to start Adex immediately, if your nipples start to hurt, make sure you get on the Adex immediately. Don’t wait, don’t let the problem get serious because it can be hard to fix.
              Adex only lasts for a few days, makes it easy to dial it up or down as necessary.
              The final thing, labs are good (and you should absolutely get them in the beginning and then periodically throughout your cycle), but you really need to get a “feel” for it. See how you feel. .5 is a reasonable starting point for the amount of test (240mg/wk), some will need more, some will need less. But you need to “feel” it, you’ll get used to what “high” and “low” feel like.

          15. I’m on board with “feeling” for it… Some days I hit the absolute sweetest spot usually after splitting an Adex (.5mg) capsule in half… feel like an absolute stud… HOWEVER… It then drives my dht through the roof for the next day or two and get major hair shedding so I take saw palmetto which supresses dht (no good) and it becomes this whole balancing act… At about 140mg/wk I can survive without an AI… Yes my body fat might be higher than I would like but I still look good (big) and feel good… I wish I could find that sweet spot with a minimal amount of Adex but like I said it then becomes a balancing act with dht so… I also notice if my e2 drops even a little bit low I lose size… I’d rather be bigger than cut to be honest with you… Yes in ideal world big and ripped would be the goal but for me at least that would require jumping through too many hoops

          16. If you want to suppress DHT you should look into something like Propecia, that stops the conversion pretty well. I don’t take it because I’ve found that too low DHT makes me feel like shit. Other guys don’t have any problems taking it, one of those you just have to try to see if you like it or not. I do use Rogaine to block some of the DHT up in the scalp area, it’s stopped any shedding and I think my hair might actually be thicker now than when I started TRT. That said, if you’re predisposed to male pattern baldness, TRT is going to accelerate that process (especially high dose, which is my protocol). I’d rather be bald and in great shape with no kids than fat with kids running around and a great head of hair. Different math for everyone, of course.

          17. Agreed! And yeah low dht makes me feel like shit also… Mike Mahler has an awesome article on the benefits of dht
              http://www.mikemahler.com/online-library/articles/hormone-optimization/dihydrotestosterone-king-of-male-androgens.html
              Thoughts on HCG while on trt?
              If one were to come off of trt and run some HCG and/or clomid would fertility come back?

          18. “If one were to come off of trt and run some HCG and/or clomid would fertility come back?”
              In most cases, yes. If you run HCG or clomid on the above protocol you likely won’t become sterile, which, of course, is why I didn’t include it. But if you’re just looking to run a cycle, or a very long cycle and don’t want the birth control effects, add in HCG and you’ll retain your fertility.

          19. The problem for “feeling” for estrogen is honestly sometimes I don’t know whether or not I’m too high or too low… Gyno doesn’t form overnight… In my opinion it’s better to start off on a low trt dose… Maybe 30mg EOD… No AI no HCG No DHT blocker… Just the Test… Get labs done in three months and make adjustments… Slowly… And cautiously… After all this is a life long journey.

          20. Hey just a follow up, but how much adex do you use along side caber/prami when running a blast cycle that consists 500-400mg test and tren 300-400mg. Thanks brah, just getting some insight as you really dropped some insight a long time ago. Currently just cruising on cyp 250mg/week and bloods are all perfecto

          21. lipogaine was amazing as well. The one with 5% minodixil.

          22. You say most of the time now you get labs when “something doesn’t feel right.”
              What do you normally find when “something doesn’t feel right?”
              In other words, what do the labs reveal?
              Also, I’m curious if you are still on this protocol. And if you are on anything else besides T + AI.
              THANKS.

          23. Everytime I’ve had labs because “something didn’t feel right” it was my E2 level. Typically too high, but I’ve also had it too low. I don’t get labs much anymore (2X a year) because I’ve gotten a really good feel for what E2 feels like too high and too low. So I can adjust pretty easily.
              Still on the same protocol, unless something changes, this is a “for life” thing for me. And no, nothing has changed, just updating the amount of Arimidex as needed.

          24. Thankyou for your response.
              I’m starting to see how this protocol is actually easier to manage then it appears.
              Especially without hcg.
              Morning wood is a good indicator for me as it relates to Adex dosing.
              Overtaxed can you appease me one last time…
              Still no care about Pregnenolone levels? DHEA? Cortisol? Obviously anyone on this protocol would be shut down.
              How are your adrenals? Any concern? Any fatigue?
              Thanks.

          25. Thanks for your response.
              If you “feel” estrogen rising as the day goes on, will you take an Adex in the evening or wait until the following morning?

          26. You mention that it would be a “mistake” for a doc to prescribe androgel without HTPA support, but yet mention nothing of HTPA support for injections. Care to elaborate, I’m just trying to learn

          27. Sure, however, none of this changes my opinion (and that of many others) that Androgel is crap. HTPA support or not, it’s not a good way to take testosterone.
              When you’re using injected test, your levels go “as high as you want them to”. You can get a test level of 1000 or 10,000. There’s no upper limit for how much you can take.
              Androgel is different. You’re not going to get to 10,000 (not that I recommend this!) on Androgel. Docs are going to want to keep you in the “low-normal” range. If your test level is 500 with Androgel, your HTPA is totally bombed out (because your not taking HCG) and your E2 level is high (because Androgel seems to convert more aggressively) you’re going to feel like crap. And yet, this is the most common way that testosterone is delivered in the US today.
              Androgel without HTPA support isn’t going to get most men into the “sweet spot”. It’s going to have all the downsides of test without many/any of the upsides. In short, it’s a terrible idea to take the “standard” method of use for testosterone.
              Androgel is garbage, rather than encourage HTPA support as I did above, I’d like to refine my suggestion to “throw it in the trash” and then get something injected to replace it.

          28. Haha thanks man makes sense… If you feel your e2 rising as the day goes on will you take an Adex later in the day or wait until the following morning?
              Btw I’ve been trying 5mg cialis pre-training to get a better pump, and my workouts have been insane!

       2. >4) Have you ever been on test?
          lol Mike’s been talking about this area for a very long time
          http://www.dangerandplay.com/2013/11/12/testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt/

    2. Injectable testosterone is generic, the but proprietary delivery systems (creams, pills, etc) are not, and you’re playing a little bit of semantics with the “feel” comment. You will know if E2 is high, it’s pretty obvious, especially if you’re just on testosterone and you’ve done your homework.

11. As a guy who has gone through drug-induced gynecomastia ans had to remove it through painful surgery, I will say one thing: you should never play with your hormones. A lot of guys here are not aware of the damage they will do to their bodies with this little chemist ideas. Just like women are damaging their bodies with their own birth control pills.

    1. Most research actually indicates woman experience numerous benefits from birth control. A lot of women take them when they’re in their early teens because of cysts on their ovaries.
       Are you a fucking moron? Or what?

       1. That’s an argument for more estrogen

    2. +1
       Women who take the pill will experience raised copper levels in the
       body. This is due to the close association between the hormone oestrogen and
       copper levels. It leads to copper toxicity which causes an adrenal burnout and consequently a myriads of other illnesses.

    3. I think play is the key word. If you are well informed take regular blood tests and are using conservative doses youll do fine

       1. “conservative doses”
          Agreed. But if you already produce a lot if testosterone it would not be necessary since more testosterone would drive you up the wall and may cause some negative side effects. The only guys that would really benefit from this is guys with low testosterone.

          1. 1. More testosterone doesn’t “drive you up the wall”, high estrogen does
             2.) testosterone use with estrogen in check has lots of benefits. Better mood, higher libido, and at higher doses added muscle thickness and size.
             3.) If you have estrogen in check, you’re pretty much good until you get over a gram. At that point it’s useless to use unless gh is in the mix. You just become a waterlogged mess.
             I’m covering a wide spectrum of course, the typical male is not going to be interested in doses that high. For example, 150mg a week of test will put you well over 1500+ on a hormone test and I believe 950 is the high range for normal testosterone. 150mg is extremely low for athletic/muscle building purposes.

    4. The Indians are here to save the day!!!
       http://www.wired.com/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/all/

    5. I was going to say, what about “bitch tits”, male pattern baldness, backne and all the other wonderful side effects. I briefly looked into test for performance enhancement and the amount of shit you have to go through (cycling, liver support, post-cycle therapy, etc.) my god, it just didn’t seem worth it. I’d rather have a kid.

    6. Just because you didn’t use an anti-estrogen or something like Masteron, I.e. didn’t do your homework, doesn’t give you an excuse to continue the propaganda against Testosterone in the west. We all should be on the same page here. You want to know why it’s a controlled substance in America? Read the article above. They wanted to leave us with no options for our own reproduction yet wanted to give these whores dozens. Don’t think for a second this was a mistake.

       1. you’ve got options idiot. think about it. “these whores”? are you referring to women who use birth control? get your head out of your ass.

    7. If someone did get gyno then they did something wrong.
       Took to much testosterone and too little anti-estrogen or got an estrogen rebound.
       If he did take other things, nandrolone/trenbolone then you can get prolactin induced gyno which should be controled by using cabergoline/bromo.
       Just saying gyno is something that is easly avoidable.

12. I am currently studying for the USMLE step 1 and would not advise anyone to do this. Although I am in medical school I am not a doctor yet and do not have the time to go in depth about this due to my having to study 12 hours a day for step 1. Off the top of my head high testosterone will lead to a weakened immune system (it reduces inflammation as all steroids do which is essential in immune response), aggressive behavior, male pattern baldness(use minoxidil, or Propecia to combat this) and increased incidence of blood clots(especially deep vein thrombosis). It is your body so do as you please but please consult an actual doctor(Me in two years, I hope) before trying this. Personally, I just come in a chicks mouth and and they never come up pregnant, works for me…

    1. Unless your seed takes root in her gut and then busts out of her chest after a few days and grows into some monster thing that runs around in steam tunnels killing members of your crew one at a time.

    2. Agreed. I am a med student as well. I definitely wouldn’t recommend this.
       Even combined oral contraceptives for women aren’t the best idea.
       The IUD is. All girls in my program are using IUD’s the non-hormonal ones.
       If a doctor or a researcher won’t do it, you know somethings up!

13. Eh I don’t know.
    No offense to the author. I have doubts.
    On the one hand, men taking control of their reproductive rights (the “holy grail” of rights for women) is a good thing as it’s mentioned it prevents being entrapped or cuckolded. I know one fellow who got snipped years ago and a woman attempted the “I think I’m pregnant” bullshit on him (and he gets tested routinely to make sure the tubules didn’t manage to heal up) and he had himself a good time telling her “no you don’t” before dumping the ditch witch.
    On the other hand, it’s a kind of “me too” -ism that the MRA crowd reeks of. It’s like “OH, hey, women get to have control over their reproduction and get to wreck civilization with it so men should too!”.
    Well. all well and good for a collectivist approach but as we know in practice not theory, many different men will have their reasons. I would bet that if a male BC pill hit the market the majority of users will NOT be PUAs or “gamesmen”.
    On a side note, I just know this is a topic of “Baby rapers in smoky back room A calling baby rapers in smoky back room B and bending the rules”. Reason? Think of the money that could be had in male birth control. And since when do the drug companies, pushing their other crap on everybody, not want to make money? No, this just has to be one of those areas where a think tank did a tabletop game on the possibilities and decided that male birth control would be very very bad for the “system”. So you get a boner pill but not a pill that gives you the same freedom that women get from their pill.
    Finally, I would have second thoughts about this. Here is the reason: messing with the endocrine system is always a bad thing. I have known a lot of women complain about the pill themselves and frankly, I know one woman who never used the pill but got herself fixed over 10 years ago and she looks like she has not aged much. I have known other women say that pill makes them fat.
    So, they have put their “reproductive freedom” ahead of their health so they can go suck cocks by the bag, why should men be that stupid too? (not sucking cocks but you get the idea).
    We live in a society were if a fellow wants to be all big and he-manly and get the T to do that, it’s evil and bad and he goes to jail (even if he’s mentally ill and obsessed with being monstrously huge beyond) but if someone is mentally ill in the other direction and he wants to take estrogen to grow breasts and all that oh that’s innocent and natural and accepted and not only should he get it, the taxpayers should shell out the money for it too.
    But in either case the risks are the same: Stroke, blood clots, and cancer.
    One good the other bad, equally risky. That’s where we are.
    Now the going bald thing… .let me tell you I knew a fellow who was all into PUA stuff and he was 30 and took HGH and used to tell me how pathetic and old I looked (I was 39) compared to him. Yet he was 30 and had a bald spot on his head. I’m not halfway to 50 and don’t have any thinning (save that my Eddie Munster widows peak I had in my youth faded a little in my 20s but no more). So now he’s “some bald guy” and I got a full head of hair.
    Kind of a tradeoff, no? Unless you have a good skull and can pull off a Bruce Willis or Jason Statham look, losing your hair is not going to help get you laid. So you take these hormones to ensure you don’t knock a bitch up, but you’ll have a harder time giving them the tingles looking like George Costanza.
    In the end it will be best to go with freezing sperm samples from the prime of your life and then get the seminfrious tubules (Beavis and Butthead pronunciation) cut. When we get older our seed diminishes, so that’s a plus right there because saving the good seed that women don’t want because they want to ride the carousel for later means that you can find a younger bride and have better children while the carousel riders hook up with aged betas and churn out asthmatic autists because they procreated too late.

14. Solid advice..except it doesn’t mention the reason why bodybuilders cycle off test constantly…permanent infertility.

15. Great article!!!!
    I have been doing this protocol for well over a year.
    Had to go to an endocrinologist and complain of ” low T” though. FYI I’m in my mid-30s.
    This should be a viable option for all men- meaning we shouldn’t have to go about this under the guise of ” low t treatment”
    But the feminists rather enjoy holding all the reproductive power and as long as the courts in the west continue to incentivize this behavior by awarding exorbitant child support, it will not change.

    1. Come on now. Viagara is out and paid by medicaid along with penis pumps. This feminist bashing is getting old.

       1. Reproductive freedom is dramatically more disruptive than being able to get your dick hard. I don’t blame “feminists” per se for this knowledge being forced underground. It’s a combination of things, steroids are “bad”, the need of the government to have more children to keep the ponzi going, the lack of concern (no fucks given) for men who are duped into becoming fathers and women knowing that they will almost always get CS payments and custody.
          Viagra is a sideshow. Testosterone/TRT for birth control is the “big one”; the one that has the ability to really change the world. Now, if that change is “good” or not is certainly debatable, but it’s not even in the same category as Viagra.
          The analogy would be if women were told “you have vibrators, you don’t need “The Pill””. That’s effectively what we’ve told men today. Sexual pleasure is not the same thing as control over your reproductive rights.

    2. Women who “win” custody of children are worse off than the men who don’t keep the children.
       Children take a lot more than child support money you beta bitch, can’t even take care of a kid.

16. Good God, has the craziness of feminists and snake women really driven us this far? I say we just toss all the undesirables and invalids off the nearest cliff and wash our hands of this filth, none of this sneaking around bullshit anymore. I guess if you don’t want children, then this is for you, or just learn to pull the damn thing out before you lose control of yourself hehe

17. The reason why women have birth control in the form of pills is because it is easier as they only have ~4 days of fertility. While men are fertile, well you know that already.
    In the same essence viagra was released. So I don’t quite see the hypocritical nonsense you are saying.

18. Is it really that worth is to mess with your hormones. Women’s birth control destroys their hormonal system and it is never balanced again after any extended use. The same thing will happen to a man’s. I think it is better that we have hoops to jump through for this. Plus is getting a girl pregnant that difficult to avoid. Wrap it up, pull out, but when getting some head. There are plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy.

    1. “Plus is getting a girl pregnant that difficult to avoid”
       Apparently, yes, considering that about 1/2 the children born today in the US are “accidents”.

       1. Yes they are but if the man nuts in a girl for the immediate satisfaction it wasn’t an “accident”. Biology had a plan. If you practice any type of safe sex its not that’s difficult to avoid pregnancy.
          http://blogs.webmd.com/womens-health/2010/01/urban-or-suburban-legends-about-sex.html

          1. Biology’s plan sucks. Those 50% unwanted children aren’t going to grow up into the next generation of geniuses, the men who don’t give a fuck about getting these randoms pregnant are exactly the men that we don’t want breeding. I sincerely doubt that most high school students that wind up with a preggo GF would really consider it anything but an “accident”. Even if it was biology’s plan, it certainly fucks their lives up royally and is one of the things that’s very difficult to “come back from” as a young man today.

          2. I agree but the same men that need to use male birth control and we wouldn’t want breeding would be the ones not to use it. Unless maybe you play it to their lack of masculinity without the testosterone treatment. Still most likely they still wouldn’t because the same people we don’t want breeding are already overly-risky people which is why they are generally poor, uneducated and/or criminals.

19. I would only take T-boosting if somehow it would save my life. Otherwise, as a male I would try to eliminate my intake of estrogen and its mimmickers contained in plastics and industrial dairy products. Also a good digestive and colon cleanse complex regimen does wonders for staying power and jumping hurdles. Attracting pheromone products sprayed on the exterior of the body are ok and always packing a live set of meatballs when leaving the house is a must. I’d rather unzip my live and loaded Gengis Kahn and point it right at the divorce industrial complex and yell ”make my day”. In the end I’d feel better about myself if I called out the mangina feminazi hoards. They are everywhere. Family life in the wilderness would actually be easier.

20. One cannot provide the correct dosage of replacement hormones. The body’s natural hormone secretion varies every minute of every day and night. It depends on hundreds of factors such as lifestyle, diet, mental attitude, stressors, illnesses and many others. This is impossible to duplicate with hormone replacement therapy of any kind.
    Replacement therapy substitutes a rigid and strict routine for the delicate balancing act the body performs all day with its hormone secretion. This will eventually upset the body severely.

    1. Our bodies are already upset from our environment, average T levels have been dropping for years. I don’t believe that there’s a “right” level for everyone, but, I can tell you, most men feel a lot better on “more” T than they have today.
       I agree, it’s impossible to duplicate the way the body secretes T. But, does it matter? TRT puts you on a “glide” of T, a pretty flat level that always stays about the same. Your body goes up and down based on your diet, exercise, sex, sleep patterns, etc. But, again, does it matter; most people on TRT don’t get negative sides from being at a constant T level so, IMHO, while it does not perfectly mimic the natural operations of the the body, I don’t think that it really matters either.

       1. You can take lots of drugs that would give a feel good effect but it does not mean that they are harmless. There are certain foods that there are delicious and make you feel satisfied and yet they are harmful.

21. I’m not convinced playing around with one’s hormones is that good an idea for anyone.

22. I get all kinds of test from over seas. It’s relatively cheap and I don’t have to jump hoops around these mangina faggots who won’t prescribe me test or HGH.

    1. “What’s your opinion on running hcg while on trt does or even on something like 500-700mg/week?”
       Depends what you’re trying to accomplish. HCG will keep you from becoming infertile, so, if your goal is to not knock a bitch up, then it’s a very bad idea. However, HCG is a good idea if you’re going to run cycles and try to recover you natural level. It’s also a good idea for men who are on TRT and want to keep their swimmers swimming.
       I can’t believe you couldn’t get test after blowing your levels down with tren. Your doctor truly sucks. Go to a clinic if you want it legally, just about all of them will write for you if you do the dance with tren.

23. Funny you mention how easy it is to get a hold of estrogen. A friend of mine who’s into bodybuilding told me you can get progesterone and other types of estrogen, without a prescription, the the pharmacy of a local dollar store chain.

    1. What brands?

       1. Progesterone, which has different brand names and premarin

24. You want to watch testosterone. If you’re of the minority of men susceptible to aggressive prostrate cancer, excessive testosterone will guarantee you an early grave. I have prostate cancer I’m sure; any man over 40 has cancerous cells in his prostrate. Take a chance and roll the dice.

    1. you won’t be saying that when you hit 60

25. This is a very confusing topic. There are hardly any reliable sources of information, even within the medical profession. I’m certainly not going to trust information I find on the Internet. I am not even going to trust ROK because the author is anonymous.
    MD’s are super conservative in many areas because the same feminist legal system that rapes men also rapes physicians, hospitals, and clinics. For some reason, this is particularly true of testosterone treatment. Here is the little bit I “know” after having spent a pretty good amount of time doing layman’s research on the topic.
    1) “Authoritative” authors you will find by doing Internet searches are all over the place on the topic. You can find yourself reading for weeks and even months and not get very far in understanding. To make the process more efficient, I discarded two types of sources of information. First, discard all women authors – almost without fail, they are negative on testosterone and use scare tactics. (This is especially true if you are reading media sources like newspapers, but even true in medical journals though more subdued). Second, discard all body building types, who are without fail pro-testosterone supplementation.
    2) T clinics make money from giving you testosterone, one way or another. I don’t trust them.
    3) Endocrinologists are super conservative in prescribing testosterone. I went to two. As far as I can tell, they are in the business of treating disease. If you do not present with clear indications of disease, they will not give you testosterone or anything else. They are firm about this.
    4) Almost all PCP’s will refer you to an endocrinologist if you ask about testosterone. I suppose that is because they are worried about law suites.
    Finally, there is something going very wrong on this topic. I suspect it is because testosterone does make men present with more masculine traits, while Western society is anti-masculinity as a matter of public policy (this is not hard to see as it is so obvious).
    I base this conclusion not just on loads of reading, but from one very interesting conversation I had with my PCP. My PCP is a woman that is only about 7-8 years out of medical school. She is also extremely overqualified just to be a PCP. And, she is also a woman that likes and embraces traditional gender roles – she is married, has children, and encourages manliness with her male patients. (Otherwise, I would never trust a female doctor).
    I discussed this topic at length with her. She was careful about what she said, because she obviously does not want to get in trouble. But, near the end of the conversation, she said to me, “Honestly, I do not even think a prescription should be required to get testosterone.” Time was running out for both of us, and I had pushed her pretty far, so I let it go at that point. I will push her further next time I see her. But I found her comment to be incredibly provocative. She said it in a moment of pure honesty, I could sense that.
    I don’t know where to go with all of this. My default position, of course, is to not mess around with nature. My father never used testosterone, fathered 3 kids, and kept my mother satisfied (she never cheated on him). So, I’m not inclined to believe I “need” it for anything unless an endocrinologist tells me I need it to treat disease. I certainly will not turn to testosterone for male birth control. There are other ways to achieve that – I am middle aged and have only gotten one woman pregnant, who thankfully had a miscarriage (I learned my lesson about being careless from that experience).

26. The best birth control for men that results from testosterone supplementation are shriveled-up nads. Chicks will avoid them and their carrier.
    (BTW, this article: Just a front for aging PUA’s to get steroids)

27. Very important article. We need more of a discussion of Testosterone on this website. Far too much propaganda has been spread by the (you know who) owned media in the west about this totally safe and effective M-E-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N (yes, it’s a medicine, not a “drug”). I firmly believe the sole reason it’s a controlled substance in the United States is because it’s the only form of safe, reversible, effective male birth control on the market. Anyone really beleive that is a mistake?

28. “Testosterone is the primary male hormone, and, yes, if you take testosterone, just like women taking their primary hormone, you will also become infertile. ”
    Wow. The information here is so wrong. Many guys using T that I know personally have fathered kids while on cycle. It’s common knowledge that using Test for contraceptive purposes is a myth.

    1. Testosterone is not 100%; which is why, as I outlined in the article, you need to test/look for yourself and see if there are swimmers in there.
       However, that said, most of the bodybuilders who get girls pregnant when on a test cycle are doing that because they are also running HCG. HCG prevents the sterility effect of test by tricking the body into continuing to make it’s own testosterone (in addition to what you’re adding). Keeps your balls from atrophying (which is good if you want to recover quickly from a 12 week cycle, NOT GOOD if you want to go on TRT and become sterile) and your swimmers swimming.
       The vast majority of men (90%+) who follow the above protocol will become sterile. Not all will, which is why you need to read through and figure out how to use a microscope and be SURE you’re sterile. If, however, you do respond (as most men will) testosterone induced sterility is going to be more effective than any other method of BC out there today (condoms included).

       1. Fair enough and thanks for the detailed answer. Due to the difficulty of getting HCG prescribed or black market in my country, my lifters don’t use it as part of their cycles, but some have still managed to knock girls us. As you mentioned, there is that highly resistant 10% margin of error. I know with 9 empty chambers + one live round….I still wouldn’t play those odds. 🙂
          I’ll continue the old “spray and pray”. It’s served me well over the last 20 years and I almost have my technique down.

29. Good read, good info. But not to be on the skepctical side I personnaly wouldn’t fuck around with neither needles nor my health for any reason at all. From my point of view, if you want to experience masculinity go to a slaugther house and ask those guys if you can kill some chicknes or cows or whatever they have there – just to see what a man should be capable of doing but that’s just me.
    By the way, if you are scared of getting a girl pregnant – pull the fuck out and cum on her face, tits etc or just use a condom.

    1. “By the way, if you are scared of getting a girl pregnant – pull the fuck out and cum on her face, tits etc or just use a condom.”
       I’m a big fan of double protection, kill your sperm production AND cum on her face. 😉
       Needles are safer than pills when it comes to steroids. Pills need to go through your liver, which, of course, is where the “steroids will kill your liver” talk track comes from (which, BTW, is true if you take orals; some of them, like Anadrol, are really toxic to your liver). Injectable steroids, although they seem “more hardcore” are actually much much safer than orals.
       As for your health, that’s a very valid concern. In my totally unprofessional opinion, supplementing your levels like this (taking them just a bit to the supra-physiological level) does not appear to have that many health risks. Professional bodybuilders take doses of these drugs dramatically in excess of the above protocol (like 10X the amount) for decades and, even with such blatant abuse, very rarely seem to drop dead (or even have their lives cut short) from these drugs. The thing that scares me about doing this is that testosterone makes shit grow, in my mind it’s pretty clear that if you have cancer, test is going to make that shit grow too. That’s my biggest fear with TRT to above normal levels.

30. are you fucking crazy? use a condom.

31. maybe its more common that birth control is given because many women physically cant live wothout it and its an actual medocation, and the only reason the approved male birth control was never released was because companoes wouldbt earn as much off it.
    but nah its defonatsly just misandry

    1. Testosterone is an “actual medication” too. What the heck does that even mean?!
       “many women physically cant live wothout it”
       Are you kidding me? Of 10,000 women on birth control, how many of them do you think are having their “lives saved” by using it? 1? 10? Come on now, it’s crazy to think that most women on BC need it to live, especially with the medical options we have in the first world today. If you get pregnant as a woman and the baby is going to kill you, they abort it.
       Most women are on BC because they want to control their fertility. Guys deserve to have the same options and to stop demonizing the male hormone as a “killer drug” while the female hormone as a “life giving elixir”. They are both drugs and, for the respective sexes, have similar effects.

32. Hi,
    I don’t like to ask for spoonfeeding, but given the atrocious state of honest information on the internet about male hormones, I’d appreciate if you could tell us what you know about the long term effects of doing this are?
    Will it shrink your balls?
    Does it damage your joints?
    If you decide to come off for whatever reason, will you need PCT?

    1. The simple answer is, we really don’t have a great handle on the long term effects. The most likely negative side effect is increased cancer liability; testosterone makes shit grow, and, it stands to reason that “shit” can include stuff like cancer. What we do know is that people have been using steroids for about 50-60 years now and, even with ridiculous abuse (see Jay Culter for an example), there doesn’t seem to be people dropping dead. And, given how demonized steroids are the US, if there were bodies to be found, they would be trotted out for everyone to see. IMHO (and it’s just MY OPINION) using steroids like this is relatively safe. You’re not going dramatically above the “normal” levels in the body, which, IMHO, is where a lot of the potential harm (and benefit) comes from steroids used for bodybuilding purposes. However, that said, make no mistake, this is a supra-physiological level of testosterone, you will see increase RBC count and increased growth/strength if you’re working out.
       Yes, your balls will shrink. That’s why this works as birth control; it’s basically shutting your balls off. I don’t really care, it’s not that noticeable to me and, frankly, I don’t have a lot of love for big hanging balls. 🙂 It does NOT shrink your dick (that’s a total myth about steroids). If anything, it will make it larger because you’re more sexually “fueled”.
       It does not damage your joints unless you use it to push yourself too hard in the gym. Testosterone is actually wonderful for joints, it will make you retain water; I used to have back pain but, since being on this program, it’s almost entirely gone (unless I take too much Arimidex).
       And, finally, yes, you will likely need PCT if you want to come off. That would typically be HCG which, if you’re doing this with a clinic, they can get for you. If you can’t get HCG, you can also try to use Clomid (which you can get from the research chemical sites), it will typically work to recover your natural levels. Recovery will take some time, typically a “few months”, depending on how long you’ve been on.

33. I would love to adopt this protocol. I really would. And I have a regular doc (Endo) that prescribes T and Adex and HCG.
    HOWEVER, Long term Anastrozole use is not safe.
    It effects notric oxide significantly. I can literally see my blood vessels constrict on my hands each time I take half a tablet (.5mg).
    Without Anastrozole estrogen would be too high on such a dose of T.
    Maybe short term for a cycle, but there is no argument here… 1.5mg weekly of Anastrozole is not going to be good cardiovascularly. It is going to effect notric oxide.

    1. JQ,
       I’ve never heard that info on Arimidex before, thank you for posting and I’ll do some research and make sure I include this in any follow-up articles. I don’t notice any negative side effects from Arimidex unless, of course, I take too much and wind up with dry joints.
       There are a lot of other options for estrogen control that I didn’t mention here. But, for the sake of discussion, here are some of the things that you could substitute the Arimidex in the above protocol for:
       Aromasin (Stane) – I’ve used this before and this is supposedly the safest of all the AIs. I moved to Arimidex from this because it’s cheaper and a bit easier for me to dose. Stane is a suicidal inhibitor and, if you take yourself to low using this, it seems to take longer to recover.
       Fermara (Letro) – This is the “big daddy” AI. This shit is no joke, it will take you down to 0 estrogen FAST if you’re not very careful in dosing (which is why I didn’t recommend it, it’s too temperamental). However, if your concerned about Arimidex, you certainly could substitute this instead and just carefully control your dose.
       And then, there’s a few other things you could try that aren’t in the same class but will help prevent gyno. Both Raloxifene and Tamoxifen are options that can help stop the gyno effects without blowing your E2 way down.
       Thank you for the comments, please add anything you have about long term Arimidex use, I’d love to see more about this (both personally, I take Adex, and so that I can make better recommendations to others).

       1. Thx for your response. Yeah I lowered t dose to 140mg/wk and trying to get by on .25mg Adex EOD but I’m also on HCG 250iu EOD so might have to bump up Adex slightly which will be tough with the dosing. Any suggestions if I wanted to bump up .25mg EOD slightly without going to .50mg E3D? I’m trying to avoid .5 mg..,
          One more question if you don’t mind: why Enanthate instead of Cypionate? And does it really matter?
          Thanks in advance for your responses,
          Jeff

          1. Jeff,
             Test E and test C are just about identical. One of them lasts a tiny bit longer, but, it’s really insignificant, you can use them interchangeably.
             If you’re not already, use liquid Arimidex instead of the pills. The pills are expensive and they have exactly the problem you’re seeing right now, you either take “half” or “a quarter”, there’s no in between. With the liquids you doses can be a lot more exact. If you want to stay on the pills, I’d suggest going to a .5, .25, .5 schedule (MWF). Then see if you can get to a .25, .5, .25 schedule if you want to go even lower. Adex has a reasonably long half life, so you can usually get away with dosing like this, but, as with all things, listen to your body. Nipples hurt? Take more. Joints hurt/can’t get dick hard? Take less (although, the “can’t get dick hard can be either too much or too little). I can “feel” it really accurately now, but this is after years of doing it, you’ll get there and know, when you wake up in the morning if you need more/less Adex for that day. Doing it by your weight is also a good way to start; if you drop a bunch of weight overnight, you took your E down a lot. If you’re packing it on (and not eating a whole lot) your E2 is probably climbing. And, of course, until you get a good feel for it, supplement with blood work.

          2. Appreciate it man. Yeah I get Adex from Endo and it’s covered so that’s cool but if can’t control dosing might go to liquid… Hoping I can get by .25 EOD it changes day to day like u say.
             Trying to get off DHT blockers altogether. Trying to accept Hairloss.
             On your protocol without dht blocker I would imagine your dht levels are through the roof. Any problems with oily skin or Prostate? Know you use Rogaine so might hop on board.

          3. Hey man if I decide to go liquid route do you have any recommendations?

          4. Google “RUI research chemicals”. They have consistently good reviews. Not for human consumption, of course, but it’s the same chemical as what you’d get in a Adex pill. Make your own decisions. 😉

          5. Actually my DHT levels aren’t typically far out of range. It’s not that much testosterone (certainly not compared to a “real cycle”) and, because I don’t take HCG (because I want the birth control aspects) there doesn’t seem to be such an overage of test that my body is forced to convert to DHT.
             So, to directly answer your question, no, no DHT effects noted. My hair has always been thin, I can’t really say that this protocol “caused” hairloss, but, at the same time, I’m sure it didn’t help. The Rogaine is useful and seems to be keeping me at a good baseline.
             That said, even when running big cycles back in my bodybuilding days, I never really had any DHT side effects of note. I did get prolactin trouble when running drugs that can convert on that path, but DHT never seems to be a problem for me. Moral of the story, we’re all different. This is a good starting protocol for a MBC program, but, it’s not going to be perfect for everyone. If you start having DHT problems, by all means, look into blockers to try to help the situation. Remember that some DHT is good (much like estrogen), you don’t want a 0 because, you will feel like shit!

          6. Thx for response. Yes I notice when I take an HCG shot, DHT and e2 sides are prevelant. I’ve devided no Hcg for now, even if LH/FSH bottom out.
             If we do want a child down the road, Hcg clomid etc.
             40mg T (eod) with insulin syringe in delt
             .33mg Adex (e3d)
             Feeling better and stronger everyday.
             Any problems with LH/FSH Zeroed out?

          7. No problems at all with LH and FSH low, at least not for me. And yes, as you point out, HCG/clomid will reverse the birth control effects in a few months. You might feel a bit watery when you’ve gotten used to “Test only” therapy and move to “Test and HCG/Clomid” because, at least for me, I find those drugs to be somewhat estrogenic in a way that Adex does not seem to be able to block (must be a different pathway, in my totally amateur opinion).

          8. Google “RUI Research Chemicals”.

34. Last question… What about other hormones that are produced by testis, like dhea, pregnenolone, etc?
    Would that be a negative to leaving out HCG on a TRT protocol?

35. Last question for you sir…. Are you concerned about depleted pregnenolone levels since you are not using HCG to keep testis functioning?
    Pregnenolone and DHEA?
    Do you supplement?
    I appreciate any response.
    Testis are main producer of pregnenolone for men…

    1. I’ve never had a problem because of depleted levels on this protocol. My FSH and LH are both pretty much flatlined because there’s no HCG in here, doesn’t seem to make a bit of difference in how I feel on a day to day basis. The biggest thing is estrogen, have to keep estrogen in check (not too high or too low), that’s what will, without a doubt, make you feel like shit if you follow this protocol and get out of whack.
       I do not supplement with DHEA or anything else that’s hormonal. I take Cialis daily and Arimidex as needed (typically as laid out above). I also take creatine but that really has nothing to do with this protocol, it’s just to increase water retention and improve endurance.

       1. Why would you need daily cialis? That’s not really a good sign, eh?

          1. I don’t “need” daily Cialis. However, as much as the medical profession would like to say it doesn’t, Cialis makes sex better, even for those who don’t need it. It makes you diamond hard, more sensitive but somehow also better able to control your orgasm.
             Here’s a tip for anyone looking for something to “enhance” sex. Look at what gay men are doing. If they are doing it, it probably works. And gay men have been gobbling down (pun intended) Cialis like tic-tacs for years.
             It also decreases your refractory period. And has positive effects on VO2 (your cardio potential) because it allows the blood to move more freely. It’s a nitric oxide drug at the end of the day, and, like supplemental nitric oxide, it does increase sports performance somewhat.

36. Every time you eat you “play around with your hormones” … I’m gonna give this exact protocol a try for a month and see how I feel with labs… Without a doubt AI’s are the trickiest part… Can go from too low to too high overnight… A little jealous of those that have it dialed in.

37. Hormones are not safe for anyone. Too much steroids damages the liver, causes bitch tits, acne and shrinks your balls. Until you have low testosterone, it is better to not use them. If you want to bulk up, eat healthy meals (screw protein powder) and workout. As for birth control, condoms or a vasectomy works. Even estrogen birth control hormones are bad for women because they can cause cancer.

38. Overtaxed,
    I’ve adopted this protocol for over a month now. Have seen gains in the gym. Look good. Feel good.
    However, expericing erectile issues.
    Due for labs so we will see but any idea what this might be?
    My TRT program is for life not looking to cycle on and off.
    Is this safe considering stress it might put on adrenals?
    Do you take anything for adrenals?
    This much T with hpta shut down seems like it almost certainly will cause adrenal issues: low cortisol, preg, DHEA, etc.
    I get a major e2 spike from HCG and would like to avoid it like the plague.
    But like I said I’m not looking to cycle or restart or anything like that.
    At some point, we must account for adrenals, no?
    Have you gotten your Pregnenolone or cortisol tested?
    I don’t care about fertility or ball size… But it seems HCG has other major benefits.
    What are those benefits?
    And how can we account for the lack of those benefits since we are not using HCG?
    Not sure you will have any of these answers.
    I could always go back to low dose T with HCG and AI.
    But this protocol feels incredible. I feel strong!
    Is it doable long term?
    I give blood every three months so high h/h is not the issue.
    Thoughts?
    Thankyou man.

39. I can’t get hard on this protocol.
    I don’t take Testosterone for birth control… I think that’s ridiculous.
    I take Testosterone to feel great.
    This protocol does not feel great. At least not for me.
    And all my hair is falling out!!!

40. Do you take your thursday shot in the evening to split the week evenly… Or it really doesn’t matter?
    I’m finding 48 hours post injection is when I need to take Anastrozole.
    So My current protocol looks something like this:
    Monday: 100mg cypionate
    Wednesday: .25mg Adex
    Thursday: 100mg Cypionate
    SATURDAY: .25mg Adex
    It’s easier to just do everything in the morning for me that’s why I asked about the AM/PM thing.
    How’s that protocol look to you?
    I trough at about 850-900 at 100mg twice a week.

    1. JQ, so glad to hear things are working out better for you!
       I take my Thursday shot in the morning, my Sunday shot before bed. Longer time from Sunday-Thursday than Thursday-Sunday. I typically take my Adex on M-W-F, but 48 hours post is fine too, sounds like you’ve been at this for awhile now, you know the feeling if you’re too high, just feel it out and determine what’s best for you. Twice a week at +24 or 48 hours makes a lot of sense.
       I’ve since backed down a little bit, I’m at .5 2X per week now too. I went on Avodart because of my hair; that prevents the conversion to DHT and was pushing my T levels too high for my liking on my old program. If you are losing hair, make sure you act; Avodart/Propecia/Rogaine will help, but not if you wait until your bald!
       Still on the program and still have 0 sperm, great sex drive and very good muscle building. On .5 I’m typically around 1000 on my blood draw day, which means I’m probably peaking about 1500 or so; above normal, but not “crazy” by any means.
       I think it’s been about 5 years now I’ve been on this schedule; not really anything new (other than the above) to report. Still chugging along, no snip necessary. 😉
       Oh, BTW, you can run HCG or Clomid and still be sterile. You just have to be smart about it. Sperm take 42 days to develop, so run HCG for 2 weeks, take 2 weeks off and the little bastards won’t mature. I’ve been doing that for the last year or so to keep my balls from going totally to sleep.

       1. Appreciate it bro.
          Yeah man my last labs came back at:
          TT 670
          E2 17
          Free was over range.
          This was not sensitive so actual e2 might be a little bit lower. I was definitely tanking e2 at times and would lose erections.
          IVe cut ADEX dose in half and am now taking .125mg twice a week 24 hours post injection. Two weeks on new protocol.
          Dosing is a little tricky.
          And yes thanks I’m running ROGAINE. Losing a little not ready to make Propecia jump.

41. Can Liquidex be trusted???
    The dosing doesn’t seem to be consistent.

42. Low estrogen feels like death. High e2 sucks also. Has to be just right! Tough balancing act.

43. It’s been two years on this protocol and still struggling with AI dosing… Not as simple as reported.

    1. JQ,
       Haven’t been back on this thread in awhile. Sounds like things are going OK for you, but not great.
       First off, have you checked for sterility? Suck to go through all of this if you’re one of the few that doesn’t respond.
       And yes, AI’s are by far the hardest part. I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I can really just “feel it” and know if I need more/less. The days you hit it perfect are awesome (better than any day you can have without test, IMHO), horny as fuck, dick so hard you could jam it thorough the wall, low water retention). They days your off, yeah, those can suck. You’ll get better and better at it.
       However, that said, a few possible suggestions. First, some guys like to do 7 shots a week. Causes less of a spike and you may not need AIs at all. Use an insulin syringe if you want to try this, jabbing a steroid needle 7 times a week; no fucking way. I’ve never tried it, but I’ve heard good things from those who have.
       Next up, have you tried any of the other AIs? Some people, for whatever reason, are sensitive as fuck to Adex. You could try one of the suicidal inhibitors or perhaps Letro, some guys have better results on those and can balance easier (definately try the suicide first, letro is strong as fuck, I can never get the dose right, but some guys love it).
       If it’s making you sterile and you’re not dying from the sides, keep at it. You WILL get it. Do more blood work, that may help you pin things down (what’s actually wrong, and how far off am I); but, honestly, by now, you should have a good feel for it.

44. As per your suggestion, I’ve already moved to daily injections and am going to get labs and see if I need an AI at all but I will only add an AI if bloodwork indicates high e2. I started an AI before bloodwork said I even needed it so that’s where I went wrong to begin with. Most men don’t need an AI on trt dose.

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