The 5 Stages Of Nice Guy Grief

American women have become increasingly brazen about their disdain for ‘nice guys.’ According to them, he’s not a good person but a Nice Guy™ who erects a facade of kindness and empathy to bed women.

After trying and failing to seduce a woman by becoming her ‘friend’ first, the Nice Guy is apt to doubt his ways. He goes through a progression of emotional stages, in a process similar to how people process grief, known as the Kubler-Ross model.

Stage 0: Being A Nice Guy

He plays the ‘friend’ for months and years to a girl, in order to date her. To him, seduction is a war of attrition, where he must endure an agonizing wait for weeks and years to claim his pussy prize. He willfully ignores that she sleeps with certain men at the drop of a hat. Lamentably, the vast majority of Nice Guys never really get past this stage.

As men, we want to believe that right action brings worldly reward. If we do the right thing, God will reward us on this Earth. Of course, this is manifestly false—bad things happen to good people. Many religions squared this vexing issue by assuring their followers of a world to come where they would receive their just reward, after their death.

Nice Guy Photo 1

For many men, the idea that evil goes unpunished is just too terrible, so they dream up all manner of superstitions to soothe themselves. The Nice Guy is just the latest to opt for this long and storied tradition. For now though, he’ll try and keep that Evil at bay by shielding his female friends from the lotharios lurking about. At least until the female friend gets mad at him for severing her pipeline of player penis, and the friendship explodes in a beautiful fit of dork rage and repressed lust.

Stage 1: Denial

“Of course she wants a nice guy – that’s what she always tells me!” “You have to treat a woman well to get with her.” “If I’m not nice to her, of course she’s not going to want to date me! Being nice is the only way.” “It’s okay if we’re just friends anyway – I promise not to get jealous if she starts dating someone else!”

He only starts making these affirmation because a little part of him wonders if they are true or not. He must assure himself, “Yes, of course they are true!” If he is more intellectually honest, or he has some wise friends, he’ll have to give these assurances a closer look. If he stopped claiming that nubile women want nice guys, he would have to undergo a complete transformation – he would have to change who he is. Or swear off women altogether. Neither option is very appealing to him.

Ironically, the Nice Guy’s cardinal sin is PRIDE. He is too wrapped up in his own image of himself as a Nice Guy, who will do whatever it takes to earn the lady’s heart. The only women who wouldn’t want a Nice Guy are not worth talking about, he tells himself. The Nice Guy is like a fat chick – a fat chick will say she doesn’t like muscular guys. In reality, every fit man she’s ever liked has rejected her, so she protects her ego from future rejection by claiming she doesn’t want that kind of man anyway.

Many men get stuck in this stage; they never get the cojones to let their skepticism win out. For a few, the doubt becomes too much, and they relent, and enter the next stage.

Stage 2:  Anger

Now our Nice Guy is furious that women don’t actually reward men like him. Every time he hears about a woman getting pumped and dumped, or reaching menopause without children, he gets into a righteous fury. “That’s what you get for not liking nice guys, you cunt!” “Of course that dumb slut ended up as a broke single mother, bitch deserved it.”

Unfortunately, many men never really get past this stage. Even in the manosphere, among self-styled ‘Red Pill’ men, there is lots of anger. Anger can be a catalyst for good – it can push you to make big rewarding changes, changes that will make your life better.

But when you stew in it day after day without making changes, it becomes almost a default emotion, as can be seen with radical feminists. Anger becomes your comfort zone, and you never really leave it.

We’ve all known someone who was bitter or dejected all the time. At first it’s vexing, because who wants to feel bad all the time? But you start to realize that their negative emotional state, on some morbid level, is what satisfies them. It’s now their comfort zone.

Many former Nice Guys reach this point. The anger is no longer a catalyst for self-improvement, but a set of manacles that binds you to failure. When a man is always angry about women fucking ‘bad boys,’ he is telling the world “I am a weakling and a coward. I am too pussy to move beyond blaming other people for my problems. I am too lazy to change.” Naturally, there is a place for criticism of this conduct, but when it is expressed with anger, it betrays a lack of self-mastery.

Stage 3: Bargaining

The Nice Guy isn’t ready to accept the full brunt of these new beliefs. Deep down, he’s still drawn to his old ways.

“Maybe I can act all aloof until we have our first kiss, and then I can share how I really feel about her, and about the future I have planned for us.” “After I insult her a couple times, then I can start writing her the love poetry I’ve always wanted to.” “I understand I have to play ‘the bad boy’ but when is it safe to be sweet and nurturing? I don’t want to have sex with a girl unless I get to cuddle with her before and after.”

Of course, his half-assed strategy doesn’t work. To be honest, I don’t see too much of this mentality – if a man enters this stage at all, he doesn’t stay in it for too long. It’s more likely that he will regress to an earlier stage, go on to despair, or skip it entirely. Other times, what may seem like bargaining is really just him honing his strategy.

Stage 4: Despair

Despair sets in. “What’s the point of having a girlfriend if I can’t be the boyfriend I’ve always wanted to be?” “If being a nice guy is wrong, I don’t want to be right.” “There’s no hope for me if I can’t be nice.”

We’re quick to call a man a bitch for being so weepy, so most men will know better than to air their despair. Usually, the despondent man will sulk in silence. If he speaks up, everyone around will have a good go at mocking him, and telling him what a little bitch he is.

Stage 5: Acceptance

At last, our man accepts that being a Nice Guy simply doesn’t make sense. He can choose to be a cad, to emigrate, or to give up on women altogether. All are fine choices, given the circumstances. He lets truth and principle dictate his behavior in equal measure, instead of shielding his pride. He’s come to terms with reality, and now he’s free. He may have some residual Nice Guy temperament left, but he’s mentally ready to trash it as circumstances demand.

And If You’re Still Bitching About Women Hating Nice Guys…

Now, it’s fine to take issue with how the world is proceeding, especially with how women are behaving. But when a man is consistently angry that women fuck ‘bad boys’ while ignoring ‘nice guys,’ he is announcing that he’s still a bitch. He is letting other people control his emotions while refusing to take meaningful action. He doesn’t have the stoicism, the self-mastery to carve out a path to get what he wants, or give up on trying to get it. He just wants to bitch about what he wants but isn’t getting.

I also know these men are not getting laid. If a man says “I don’t want to become the kind of man that getting laid would require” – fine, that is an acceptable response – but it requires that you stop giving a fuck about getting laid. Of course, very few men can do that – if you are young and healthy, your sex drive won’t allow it. Your lust is going to show one way or another. So these men settle into whining all the time.

I haven’t known a single player who was consistently angry. They had their moments, sure, but they wouldn’t tolerate failure. They put up or shut up – they didn’t half ass it by sticking around to vent and whine. If you find yourself routinely getting angry at people you’ve never met, it’s time for a change.

Read More: The Master and the Slave

313 thoughts on “The 5 Stages Of Nice Guy Grief”

  1. Most “nice guys” aren’t as nice as they think they are.
    Genuinely nice people of both genders have no major problems with relationships even when their looks begin to slide.
    I’m sick of fake ‘nice guys’ who think its OK to put up a false personality and think its fooling anyone.

    1. Shut the fuck up, you dumb fucking cunt. Why don’t you go do something useful, like kill yourself, bitch?
      Oh wait… let me guess. You prefer the “nice guys” to guys like me, who speak completely bluntly to such worthless pieces of shit like you, Jenny.
      You are a completely worthless piece of shit and the world would be better off without you, so therefore please kill yourself immediately, you dumb fucking cunt.
      No more Mr Nice Guy. You bitches want a war against men? Well men are fighting back now. And men are far better at waging war than you dumb cunts ever can hope to be. You want to see what a real war looks like?

        1. You would only talk like you’re talking in the comfort of your own home. I have no empathy nor sympathy for women, so i’d kill you easily and go on about my day like nothing happened. Don’t believe me? I’ll meet you wherever. I have money for flights.

      1. Men are fighting back??? Does hat mean they are going to start getting education and professional degrees again???

        1. HAHA! Good point. I love the manosphere, but lets face it…the only fighting most of these guys are doing is on Call of Duty or some other such nonsense video game.

    2. Shut the fuck up, you dumb fucking cunt. Why don’t you go do something useful, like kill yourself, bitch?
      Oh wait… let me guess. You prefer the “nice guys” to guys like me, who speak completely bluntly to such worthless pieces of shit like you, Jenny.
      You are a completely worthless piece of shit and the world would be better off without you, so therefore please kill yourself immediately, you dumb fucking cunt.
      No more Mr Nice Guy. You bitches want a war against men? Well men are fighting back now. And men are far better at waging war than you dumb cunts ever can hope to be. You want to see what a real war looks like??

    3. I don’t believe they’re being fake, I think they’re buying into a false system. “Being nice = sex! That’s what Hollywood is telling us! It must be true!” When they realize the system fails, they first blame themselves, and then they start to see that the system itself is corrupt. A shame about nice guys, really.

      1. Like I said in the article, I think most never have that realization, which is the problem.

        1. I think some are finally awaking from their shell of ignorance. The feminists know this, so they are fighting back as hard as they can.

      2. We men should have to stoop to all this fucking stupid psychological, philosophical, sociological mind game bullshit to just meet, greet and have a pleasant conversation that may or may not lead to more — should we?
        But we fucking do.
        So what does that say about the quality of the women in America?

      1. And letting a woman know her place is the nicest thing you can do for her.
        Here’s a question for Nice Guys(tm) to consider:
        Why do you think a woman might enjoy not having a fucking clue where she stands?

        1. Girls love drama. If you can provide them constant reasons to be upset and angry, they’ll get to command the attention of their circle of friends by making every conversation about their relationship troubles, and they’ll reward you with make-up sex. Push them too far, and they’ll melodramatically break up with you, usually quoting some pop song lyric, only to come sniffing around months later under flimsy excuses.
          I had two different ‘accidental’ texts from girls on Christmas Eve, both of which I ignored. They both then messaged me hours later saying it was an accidental mass Christmas message and they ‘forgot’ I was still on their list. I didn’t answer. Then ‘BTW, how are you?’ and ‘I guess you’re busy on Christmas eve unless you’d want to get a drink’. *eye roll* Jesus, women are transparent.

      2. whenever my side tart starts shit testing me or getting comfortable in her perceived “relationship” with me, I ghost her for a week.
        brings her back down to the blowjob loving girl I initially liked.

    4. The attitude of above women is telling. Because women aren’t psychic creatures that can see into men’s “heart of hearts” they can only deal with things at face value. The above statement by Jenny Skeete reveals that being “nice” to a woman in any fashion is a sure fire disaster. Be nice to a women and you’re either:
      1. Not really “that nice” and the woman should be wary of your intentions.
      2. You really are “that nice”, but the woman has no way of knowing that so she has to use her current attitude which can be seen as expressed by Jenny Skeete above.
      So basically, being nice to women is full stop a bad idea as regardless of intentions it will be interpreted badly.
      TLDR: Women interpret being nice as evil. Treat women like shit because they know how to deal with it.

    5. LOL. They are actually are pretty nice guys, you just loathe them for it and rationalize that it’s not genuine.
      Straight from the horses mouth why you should never ever be the ‘nice guy’.
      In a woman’s world there are two genuine types of actual ‘good guys’, the one that acts like she is beneath him and is hot and the one that is a sexless eunuch that provides goods and services for her with no expectation of any type of reciprocation.

        1. and where exactly is this mythical world where good people get rewarded constantly? gosh darn i’d love to live there

    6. “Most “nice guys” aren’t as nice as they think they are.”
      This is correct.
      “I’m sick of fake ‘nice guys’ who think its OK to put up a false personality and think its fooling anyone.”
      This is not correct. It is a projection of the manipulative feminine mindset, as when you are “nice” you are actually up to something, you assume they are as well. In fact, most nice guys are absolutely sincere in their nice guyness.
      So, how can the first be correct while the second is not?
      Because nice guys are being subconsciously selfish. They believe that their overt selfless behaviour ought to be inherently reciprocated.
      Communication is not the foundation of strong relationships. Reciprocity is; but taken to the extreme, the nice guy call for reciprocity is a projection of responsibility for their own interests entirely onto another. It is not giving love, but forcing debt.
      Hence it is the nice guy who says the stereotypical line, “I bought her dinner and the bitch wouldn’t even put out.”
      And that’s not nice. That’s narcissistic.
      In order for reciprocity to not fall into dysfunction it must be mutual and consensual, free of debt that was not
      asked for nor wanted.
      The “jerk” tosses a woman a bag of Skittles and says, “Here babe, enjoy,” and by doing so retains the relationship on a even, debt free keel where he is responsible for his own care and interests and she retains her own agency.
      And that is actually nice.

      1. “The “jerk” tosses a woman a bag of Skittles and says, “Here babe, enjoy,” and by doing so retains the relationship on a even, debt free keel where heis responsible for his own care and interests and she retains her own agency.”
        100% correct on this one, buy her Wendy’s if she’s behaving in a docile manner but nothing more.

      1. Nice means someone who genuinely wants to know a person with no strings attached and doesn’t automatically expect certain things back for doing so.

        1. Bullshit.
          “…know a person with no strings attached and doesn’t automatically expect certain things back for doing so”
          This is the epitome of the nice guy and guess what? the girl still lusts after the badboy/thug who treats her like dog shit

        2. If this is your definition i must say…you’re delusional. There is no such thing as ‘no strings attached’ and ‘not expecting for things in return’. Human relations – all of them – are conditional. Both men and women expect things in return for their investment. What you’re describing is – close to – slavery.

        3. “What you’re describing is – close to – slavery.”
          In a woman’s world there are two genuine types of actual ‘good guys’, the one that acts like she is beneath him and is hot and the one that is a sexless eunuch that provides goods and services for her with no expectation of any type of reciprocation.
          She is describing man number two.

        4. Back in the days where women were ladies and men gentlemens, a lady would never accept any gifts (dinner included) from a man without realizing the implications. If she didn’t like the man she would not make him waste his money.

        5. actually girls are SURPRISED when a stranger (nice guy) offers them dinner for nothing in return so they accept it of course since they have no character or integrity.
          doesn’t mean they respect that mangina for doing so…
          hence the typical nice guy dinner followed by the bad boy fuck session after…

        6. On reflection I think you have just made a very valid point.
          I am an idealist when it comes to relationships and maybe that’s just another word for delusional.
          I’m new to this whole red pill thing because I have always been fortunate with my relationships.
          I will adapt your ideas into my own.
          Yes, I do sometimes talk like a Borg.

        7. The problem with this is that when I was the nice guy, I at least expected respect and honesty. I never got either.

        8. I dare say you talk a bit like a dude. But kudos for being able to come around and make an unqualified appreciation for the comment of someone who is not in your “camp”. You’re obviously not just here to troll.

        9. This is a dangerous mindset for anyone – male or female – to practice, because the majority of people are self-interested. Being ‘nice’ without any expectation of reward for effort expended or discomfort experienced just opens yourself up for gross abuse to serve the whims of other, less morally-minded people. If you present yourself as a tool, people will use you as such.
          Women with ‘nice’ orbiters know exactly what they’re doing, and they’re always expecting something in their favour out of the deal. At the very least, attention Girls are just as predatory as they try to paint guys to be.

        10. Of course not, she’s here for attention from men, as they always are when a woman tries to force her way into the men’s locker room.
          Classic NAWALT statements + hijacking the discourse + relating everything to her own experiences + a favourable ratio of 99 men for 1 woman, so no competition = the Apsie belle of the ball.

        11. Yes, she is here to troll idiot.
          What other possible reason would someone who just stated “because I have always been fortunate with my relationships.” be doing on a site for men that have NOT been fortunate in our relationships and our trying to improve our lives?
          She just wants to belittle us, shame us, demean us and harass us like they all do.

        12. Easy simply take all the social conditioning you were told and
          REVERSE IT.
          Now sit back and realize how much men are getting screwed daily.
          *****MIND BLOWN****

    7. Women are attracted to dominant men, nice guys are submissive. Their niceness, genuine or not, is going to turn off most American women all else equal.

      1. you are special by the life you lead, not by being born only.
        women don’t get that since they stopped trying at 12.

  2. As a former Nice Guy, I suggest that you make an adjustment to your understanding of their motives. Most of the time, the Nice Guy is not just looking for sex, but for the whole relationship package.
    It’s simplifying too much to suggest that the Nice Guy is simply using a shitty tactic in his quest for poon. That’s a mistake that a lot of people make, especially the sluts who have completely divorced their pussies from their hearts and see the Nice Guy as nothing more than a manipulative sneak trying to get laid. These sluts are almost universally unable to emotionally bond to a man, so they cannot relate to a man longing to emotionally bond to them.

    1. Women (and most men) can tell the difference between someone being actually nice and someone pretending to be nice.
      Can you tell the difference between charm and smarm? Charming people genuinely like people and smarmy ones do not.

      1. Then why do so many women fall for the ‘charm’ of bad men? Why are so many con artists successful?
        Don’t give yourself too much credit.

        1. They don’t.
          I have been privy to a number of nightclub toilet discussions and some women just want to get laid with someone who they can discard without feeling any guilt.

        2. I believe that the “nice guy” is the guy that is throwing himself at a mate. There is a difference in doing good things for someone and kissing their feet. No matter the gender, we want a mate that we have to put in at least a little work for. If someone jumps into our arms our initial thought is “I can do better”.

        3. Good point. The moment you are nice to guy friends they will see you as weak and wonder if they can do better.

        4. “They don’t.
          I have been privy to a number of nightclub toilet discussions and some women just want to get laid with someone who they can discard without feeling any guilt.
          Its a common occurance.
          In addition sometimes the woman is as much of an asshole as the man.”
          This. Female assholes. They have bangin’ bodies and can look very sweet. They’re people that just want to get laid sometimes. Other times they can look sweet even when they are not.

        5. People who want to get laid can’t be sweet? Makes no sense since sex itself is pretty dang sweet, man.

      2. Yeah but the nice guy hopes his genuine niceness will be rewarded. it isn’t.
        It’s like accusing a job candidate of being manipulative and calculating because he tried to answer job interview questions well, “just so he could get a job.” and that’s supposed to be a problem.
        far worse is rewarding men for antisocial, violent, malicious behavior.

    2. Yeah that too. Since I used to be a staunch “no sex until marriage” guy-and in some ways I still am but it’s for a few reasons-this didn’t make sense. I ran into that heartless bitches internet article about Nice Guys TM when I was still in high school. How could I possibly be pretending to be a friend in order to get do something I didn’t believe in doing until I put a ring on it? I guess that was kinda my first hint towards realizing women were irrational.
      It still doesn’t make sense to me. Because as a former Nice Guy, Nice Guys want the elevated level of companionship, not sex. But they focus on sex because they know all they offer is sex. And it doesn’t make much sense for sex to being the only difference between a friendship and a relationship, but that’s how it is.

      1. “How could I possibly be pretending to be a friend in order to get do
        something I didn’t believe in doing until I put a ring on it?”
        So, you were not expecting a sexless marriage? If not, that is how. The strategy for obtaining the goal does not define the goal.
        “Nice Guys want the elevated level of companionship, not sex.”
        So you did want a sexless marriage? You seem to be a bit confused.
        “And it doesn’t make much sense for sex to being the only difference between a friendship and a relationship . . .”
        When you figure out why it is that sex is the only thing that sensibly makes a friendship into a relationship you’ll finally be getting someplace.
        Hint: Sex is the only reason there are two sexes in the first place.

        1. Nah, of course I wasn’t expecting a sexless marriage. Then again, at the time I didn’t ever think that my hypothetical wife would ever deny me sex for any arbitrary reason, because I didn’t think women were capable of that if the husband was indeed a good husband. Never crossed my mind. I do see your point though; I’d be eventually getting to the sex so the goal is still there, but there was just one that I (wrongfully) said “it’s this one I’ll marry!” Ah, the days I didn’t know any better.
          But to answer both (“you were NOT” and “so you DID?”), I would say that I didn’t not consider any of the girls I was into, except that one, to be marriage material. They were somebody I wanted to date and I wasn’t under any delusion that it would last forever. I basically wanted the experience of a boyfriend girlfriend relationship as I had not yet had one.
          To me, the difference between a friendship and a relationship is the level of trust, and I’d say the actions of love or whatever would be greater between two people in a relationship than two people in a friendship. At least, I think so. But if we made “Sex” an all-encompassing thing that refers to simple kissing or “making out,” which is kinda juvenile to say, then in that case in which a person does not want to have sex then that does apply that the only major difference is “sex.”

        2. blue pill guys see the girl as their friend first and foremost and then move onto the relationship as their kinda best buddy they can also have sex with…. this of course kills the male female attraction and polarity…. it’s also not how she sees it at all, even if she plays along with it in the beginning…. either with sex or without sex…. it’s not about friendship as much as having a man in her life under whatever dynamics he’s offering….
          if he’s offering a friendship based relationship, rather than a polarity of him being male and her being female, in time she gets turned off… if there is sex happening, he gets more and more comfortable with sex on demand, whereas she was having sex because she was attracted…. nice guys can get the girl, but they are almost guaranteed to lose the girl…. if there is no sex well he’s already in trouble….
          20 years ago, sex went down hill and things ground along, but these days with all the instant comms we have, she’s got one foot out of the door… if a guy’s not getting sex he can look to porn, where a chick is starting to get validation elsewhere….that’s her porn of sorts….
          then all it takes is an alpha that wants to bang and that’s the end of that….
          redpill says hey… men and women have sexual polarity and attraction is built in specific ways and your woman is not your best friend…. even your point about trust is wrong… you have to be a bit mysterious, and perhaps you cannot trust your SO as much as you think, or at least as a man you need to give her the feeling that you are with holding stuff…. you want her transparent, but you remain closed to some degree….
          so for example nice guy comes home and blubbs to his girl about his terrible day at work, she tries to give him some crappy advice etc….. but alpha comes home and bangs the shit out of her to release his stress…. and goes back to work the next day saying nothing, but feeling great…. she’s also way more attracted because she knows there was something going down, but it’s a mystery…

    3. I agree entirely, and failed to make that distinction. I actually started the article off initially referring to the nice guy haters as sluts but then i changed it so i wouldnt immediately turn off people who were on the fence.
      These sluts can emotionally bond in theory, but only with guys that are too cool for them, so effectively never.

      1. women don’t hate nice guys, they use them, until the nice guys hate themselves and THEN the women hate them, because they find an insecure, sex starved weakling that’s trying to pander to their every whim… even men hate women like this and even men hate men like this… even employers hate men like this….. but they are useful in the beginning until their psychology implodes under the overload of private masturbation and public self denigration.
        It’s also impossible for a nice guy to make anything of himself in a competitive world, since he’s everyone else’s doormat. He might make a good massage therapist or something, until he has a bitchy client that tramples his self esteem, but essentially he is a loser on all levels.
        Only geeky techies, get away with being nice guys, by building skills, but they rapidly turn into mean monsters if you mess with their PC…. they just haven’t expanded their skills off screen.

        1. It’s true. I’ve seen desperate men who pander to women like you said and felt repulsed by them. I don’t necessarily agree that the guy who panders to women will be unsuccessful in general because there are successful and unsuccessful “nice guys”.
          But the bottom line is that if you’re so desperate for some pussy that you’re willing to let a cunt a fraction of your size walk all over you and have no respect for yourself, then there’s something wrong with you. Imagine that! A big strong man letting an itty bitty little cunt walk all over him. Even if you learn nothing else from game, that little bit of knowledge will help you immensely with women.

        2. I remember being in the despair phase because I thought it was my short stature that had everything to do with my luck with women. I still hadn’t completely put it together it was just that I was nice, but I knew there was something to it. In truth, my height has quite a bit to do with women immediately assuming I’m a pussy, but it has nothing to do with my ability to get in said pussy if I maintain a dominant frame.
          That breakthrough came in the form of making women blush shortly after taking the red pill. I’d fucking had it with bitch behavior and wasn’t allowing women to walk all over or manipulate me, and to my surprise, women were crumbling to my dominance left and right. I hold eye contact, and watch the looks on their faces now. It’s fascinating how insecure almost every woman on the planet is when she sees her looks alone don’t phase you.
          Taller women hate being referred to as big when they make digs at my height. Flipping the script is hilarious cause they never see it coming. Insinuating their vaginas must be enormous caverns really gets their goat. “Are you kidding me? I would have more luck camping inside that cave than trying to get off fucking your gaping maw. I’ll give you a call when I develop a horse fucking fetish.”

        3. It’s cuz most “nice guys” are pussies. If you’re a pussy, women will walk all over you.
          Lesson of the day: don’t take shit from a bitch.

        4. “I would have more luck camping inside that cave than trying to get off
          fucking your gaping maw. I’ll give you a call when I develop a horse
          fucking fetish.”
          This Jamaican guy told me once, “there’s no such thing as a big vagina, only a small penis.”
          Easy for him to say…….

        5. you gotta be shitting me. there’s agressive behaviour and then there’s asshole behaviour. a woman who still screws you after call her twat a gaping maw would have to have the mother of all self-esteem issues. get a grip dude

        6. I’ve stumbled into more than a few caves…usually post thirty something cock carousel riders. It usually ends up with me abruptly stopping, rolling off and making an excuse that the condom broke or something.
          No point and no shame.There’s really no way anything other than a horse whose owner had been jelqing it since birth could satisfy those ‘gaping maws’.

        7. There’s the caring asshole, which is pussy repellent, and there’s the uncaring asshole who literally drowns in poon. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which one you were in this scenario.

        1. There’s a Stage 1.5
          After Denial, Doubling Down on the Try-Hard, or, If Only You’d Been MORE Beta
          The dinner date didn’t work? Next time, a dozen roses!
          A dozen roses didn’t work? Next time, courtside tickets!
          She didn’t answer your text? Show up at her house to serenade her with a mariachi!
          Guys from an unsophisticated, Evangelical background are very prone to this as Evangelical lore features plenty of Tests of Faith and pointless white knighting which is justified as countering feminism, when it really just enables it.

        1. This is some feminist cartoon shit you posted — looks like something you’d see on jezebel or xojane

    4. “Most of the time, the Nice Guy is not just looking for sex, but for the whole relationship package.”
      That’s EXACTLY what manipulative woman count on, use emotional mirroring to make you believe she is your “soulmate” when in reality she simply hides her true self to conform to your lifestyle.
      Nice guys who wants a real relationship are actually the noble mens of our society, everyone else is fucked up or playing games because of the feminism brainwashing machine.

    5. LongLostFriend, I was also looking for the whole relationship package when I was dating in high school. My 2 exes later cheated because i wasnt making any sexual advances, and ironically enough i thought i was being respectful. I wouldntve minded if they made their intentions known but i did honestly have feelings for them. Though to be fair i was also a beta….

    6. That maybe true about nice guys but not Nice Guys(TM).The difference: nice guy would NOT waste his time bitching and whining about sluts sleeping with Bad Boys. He would understand that sluts aren´t his cup of tea, and just indiffrently ignore them.

  3. My exie has a new boyfriend with whom she’s serious (serious about what, I’m not quite sure). She attempts to taunt me by saying, “He’s a nice guy! See, I like nice guys! He’ll shave for me every day (she tried to order me to shave every day….fuck off), he’ll drink only with me (I was ordered to drink only when she drank….ha ha, good fucking luck with that one), he’ll learn to ballroom dance with me (for fuck’s sakes)….see Sam, he’s a NICE GUY! Why couldn’t you be like that?!”
    A nice guy in her books is one she can tame. Anyway, I don’t know if he’s genuine or if he’s just playing her. If he’s genuine I feel sorry for him, for he’s single, older, not that handsome, but is a well paid accountant with no kids (which means lots of debt-free assets) with a nice home. Thanks to a prenup, I was able to pawn off an old house which I paid $40,000 for in the 90s (I don’t care what it’s worth now) to her, leaving my business assets untouched! This guy is fresh meat and I can just imagine what he’ll be sacrificing down the road for some expired Russian pussy. 😀
    It’s going to be quite entertaining to watch this develop.

    1. I fel sorry for ya’ll old dudes! Since girls put all their info on various social networks, we can catch the warning signs before getting too close!

      1. I meant I felt sorry more in the higher education sense. I didn’t realize that college life was so anti-male now.
        Don’t feel sorry for me. I live a smartphone-free life. When the grid goes down due to some EM pulse from a solar storm or a Chinese attack, I’ll be warm and toasty in my camp with fresh spring water, an endless supply of rabbits and squirrels, firewood, shotgun, .22, .308, and fuck GPS, all I need is a compass.

        1. Ah. Well it is-I was appalled when I found out there was this transgender presentation at my college, and when somebody asked me if I was going I wimped out and said I had class which wasn’t a lie. I didn’t have the heart to tell them no, because it’s going to be full of shit and lies. This was years ago though. About 2.
          Not to mention how I (almost) got kicked out behind a false sexual harassment claim. Granted I didn’t as the school was fair, but I did get suspended from class for a short period once the claim was made which would fall under “anti-male,” at least to me.
          Now I’m glad you live a smartphone free life. They take up so much of people’s time. I definitely do think we’re too reliant on it. I remember back before GPS my mom had to consult an Atlas on trips. She still doesn’t really use GPS though, which is pretty sweet.

    2. “A nice guy in her books is one she can tame. ”
      Your russian girl sounds like my ex mexican girl.
      She wanted a lap dog basically, problem I was too big for her purse to fit in…

      1. It’s the same with any fucking woman, they all want lap dogs for husbands, here there or anywhere, it’s just that us dudes who shack up with the ones from feisty ethnic groups never had to beg for sex during marriage. Whenever I had a hardon I whipped it out and she was always quick to latch on to it! God bless the darlin’ 😀

        1. That’s the difference between a predatory woman and a regular woman. A regular knows her man is the prize, a predatory female always aims higher.
          It’s hard not to fall for the predatory female because most of the time she is actively gaming you hard.

    3. Beige Phillip has a rule that I’ll paraphrase.
      Women will spend a whole relationship trying to change who you are, and as soon as they succeed they will leave you for someone who is like what you used to be.
      They all want to tame the bad boys, but as soon as they succeed their vagina stops tingling and they jump ship to the next available alpha. They don’t even realize they are sabotaging themselves. It’s sad, really.

      1. my side tart told me at the beginning of our sexlationship that she doensn’t see me as bf material…
        4 months later she leaves everything she can at my place and told me we’ve been together for 4 months already..
        guess her actions speak louder than her words…about to ghost her real soon if she keeps this shit up.

        1. Tell her in no uncertain terms that your place is your place, not hers, but that she can leave an overnight bag on a closet shelf . . . next to the others.
          Make sure there are a couple of others on the shelf when you show it to her.

        2. I told her she can find her stuff in the Lost & Found bin next to my room…
          she knew what I was talking about..
          I feel like Neo seeing the codes of the matrix without blinking…

      2. “Women will spend a whole relationship trying to change who you are”
        You’ve got that fucking right. I drank a few tall boys of 7% beer every day when we met, and I (and the exie) got good and loaded maybe once a week. She was more than happy with that in the beginning, but towards the end of it she tried for forbid me from drinking except when I was graced with her presence, and in the later years of our relationship I was drinking less than when we married! Fuck me!
        Well, she didn’t succeed in changing me; actually I was getting more and more defiant as time progressed, being constantly pissed off at her boa constrictor approach to marriage. I (literally, as a fist fight with her stupid BFF’s husband ended it) struggled free from the wife’s strangulating coils; many men don’t.

        1. they try to change you because they are scared of losing you, once they are no longer scared of losing you, instead they lose their attraction for you….. brilliant…

      3. Rollo Tomassi, over at the Rational Male blog, has an excellent article illustrating this very absurd phenomenon you speak of; check out the Rational Male blog and search “The Ballad of Clark Kent”. It’s a good read.

      4. will have to listen to some beige phillip. not the same as patrice but atleast its something
        [3 steps to fast forward making a man. manosphere radio, bill burr podcasts, and patrice oneals’s entire radio back catalogue]

  4. From experience, the thing about it is it doesn’t make sense to many men that a woman will call them “such a sweetie” or anything else that could be taken to mean she likes him, only to find out that she really doesn’t like him that way. If he’s unlucky, it’ll be some heartbreaking action rather than words through which he will learn this such as kissing a friend right in front of you, or in starting to treat you like shit when she finds someone she perceives to be “better.”
    Now I don’t think I was ever really a nice guy because I didn’t wait months, I tended to make my move within a week to a month of realizing I had feelings for her (speaking in the context of a teenager here). But I was that guy that would do the cards and candy on her birthday thing, the love notes that never got sent thing. I was that guy that would constantly get told “there’s nothing wrong with you, I just don’t like you like that.” So I’m thinking if there’s nothing wrong with me, why don’t the girls I like ever like me back and why do they keep saying “but don’t worry, you’ll find someone who’ll make you happy <3″ when that’s obviously not happening? (To be fair though, there were at least two cute girls that DID like me but I didn’t notice the signs until one admitted it once she’d already moved away)
    I do think I’m a much different person now, though. At least I don’t pedestalize anymore. I learned the hard way with the last time I got too wrapped up in a girl. Unfortunately I also don’t trust a girl as easily as I would in the past. I have been angry a few times, but mostly for being lied to and for being betrayed. But that didn’t last long either. Pickings are very slim here so I don’t know how effective 24 year old me is compared to 15-18 year old me, so we’ll see.
    P.S. truth be told, that really happened; my prom date now has a child out of wedlock. I just met that with unsurprised indifference because I remembered the girls she was in junior high with that were, then, freshmen along with her, that were warning me not to get too involved wth her because she was a slut. I more-or-less took their advice. And later, it turned out that some of these girls weren’t worth anything. One, years later called me just to ask me to help her hack her ex’s facebook and she hung up with a huff when I refused. And as for that last girl I was referring to-the one that changed me-she turned out to be crazy. She’d blow up at me at the drop of a dime, but she had no problem bringing up other guys with me knowing full well i was still geting over her. But what made me see she was crazy was when a month-long relationship didn’t work out, so she started saying to me that she wanted to get hit by a car.

  5. I got a little chestnut of a story. I was a bit of a beta -as hard as that is to say. Anyways one night I helped this girl when this guy was getting a bit rapey with this girl i knew through a friend. She was banging hot( thin, long hair bait pastry and thin with the emo college hipster look and intelligent but pycho in every sense of the word.) She was full of gratitude for me being a white knight. She was a bit intoxicated and asked to come back to mine. I said sure but I’m not sleeping with you, you’re too intoxicated. As it was a one beddy, i was like i can sleep on the floor and you take the bed. ( I know you can’t make this shit up)! Anyways she was like i wasn’t to share the bed with you. Sure why not its better than rock hard floor for me. Then she was kinda freaked out. Telling me i must be gay for not making any moves on her. She was left freaked out. I said goodnight and what not. Then i find her taking my pants off. She said why I act this way, why i was so cavalier: i told her there was no point being with someone if they didn’t care for me on an emotional level or something. Then she suggested we have sex but if we have sex we can’t be friends, associate or have any chance of dating. or we can be friends but no sex. It was an ultimatum. I didn’t believe her. I almost had to test it out. To believe she could be so foregoing in her sexual nature. She told me during sex one day she was raped. I didn’t stop pumping. I think she realised i wasn’t the nice guy i wanted to be deep down.She was spot on and didn’t contact me or anything after a few roots totally ignored me just kicked on my door. it freaked me out a bit. Anyways one day no more knocking she was with a boyfriend now. i was a bit let down to put it lightly to be honest and felt betrayed feeling that i had something. She must have felt that i wasted a relationship and this repulsed her. That sense of desperation from a man women hate more than anything. Its the smell of carrion to them. Anyways it was my red pill moment. It awakened me. The highlight was bumping into her in the street a few years later with a the current GF who is in every physical and mental sense her superior. No words were exchanged.Just the look off desperation.

    1. Every woman has been raped… It is like some fucking badge of honor these days, and with the definition of raped being so contorted it could of been rape of the eyes for having a creepy normal guy look at her… Anyway, glad you didn’t stop, as any woman who was raped (except maybe the 0.001%) are either liars or whores and you don’t either.

      1. I think it was the moment she realised I wasn’t her prince charming. A red pill bomb for me. The real problem with the nice guy persona is that they think they can fix a broken women. This is not the case. She needs to act out for more and more attention.She has found that acting out has given her male attention her whole life. From fathers, teachers, boyfriends and shrinks. After one bang session she regaled me with tale that her boyfriend slapped her once to get her into line as I spanked her. That she broke it off with him and in his despair he tattooed her name on his chest. She loved telling me that. That when he is over the top of any other girls they will see her name or a huge scar. She was an psychotic. yet that moment of her seeing me with a younger european girl broke her spirit. I honest had a few guys and mentors previously help get me to take the red pill and their wisdom was unlocked after that episode.

      2. Go kill yourself. Seriously. Get a gun, out it behind your ear, and pull the trigger. Kill yourself. The world is better without you in it. No one will care. Kill yourself.

  6. I find this commentary on nice guys to be very telling: (and it’s written by a woman, nonetheless). Really shows the shit they have to go through by feminists:

    1. What man has sex with that beast is beyond me. When she said she sleeps with men my mind was boggled beyond repair.

      1. I care more about what she said than what she looks like. She beats all the garden-variety feminists hiding the truth.

        1. I’ll need to watch it in its entirety tbh. her voice and hubris tuned me off almost instantly.

    2. Saw that. That story about how that guy was called “He’s totally my bitch” really got to me. Just, yep, that’s what happens.
      But he learned much too late. Nice guys need to get fucked over early to learn the truth about how most women are, like I was. This way they don’t become another Leif Eriksson, victim to a Jenny Eriksson-like slag.

      1. “Nice guys need to get fucked over early to learn the truth about how . . .”
        . . . nice guys are: bitches.

        1. Exactly the point, that it is the guy who makes himself the bitch by letting her treat him any old type of way.
          The woman may be a royal shit for taking advantage of it, but that is all she is doing, taking advantage of what is handed to her.

    3. Why are all the women who orbit the Manosphere for positive attention so unattractive? Is this all you guys got?!

  7. I just want a sex slave, just purchase a virgin and use her for emotional or psychical release whenever I so feel like it… That would be my ideal in life, well tbh my ideal would be japanese sexbots that look like anime characters but this my second ideal.

    1. Haha no wonder no one wants you. No one liked you in high school and no one likes you now. Loser.

      1. Lol not sure where this attack comes from, but everyone sooner or later just gets tired of dealing with women…

        1. That’s not true. Maybe you’re just not alpha enough to find a good woman. No wonder you’re writing pissy little comments on this website; you a self loathing whiny beta male.

        2. You said your ideal reality would be a Japanese sexbot that looks like an anime character, let’s not pretend you’ve ever dealt with women.

        3. Dealt with far more than enough women to realize a sexbot is better than a real flesh and blood slut.

        4. Dates almost nothing but <20 and I’m not alpha enough, despite being over double their age… Nice try feminist cunt.

        5. Wow you can bang drunk teenagers??? Impressive. You’ve got it all figured out buddy. No mores to be so defensive 😉

        6. That is right! Well usually they aren’t drunk but 100% sober and consenting, 16 is legal in my state, and that is what I bang whenever possible.

    2. I’m not into anime, but a sexbot would be awesome. Give it some AI so that it’s like interacting with a real person without the defects and you’re good to go.

  8. In the words of Patrice O’Neal
    ” Sometimes a guy has to see the woman that he loves getting fucked by another man…It stops you from ever putting women on a pedestal for the rest of your life”

    1. I put two ex gf’s on a pedestal, almost costed my sanity.
      never again.
      Expect lots of strange semen in your “special” girl. That is the new normal.

    2. Considering that story I told you, technically I did see the woman I loved (didn’t love her, but whatever) getting fucked by another man and I STILL didn’t learn!

    3. Great words, Psquare.
      Have passed through that phase in my life before. Just changed my perception of women altogether.

  9. 100% disagree with this article.
    Nice guys are nice because that is their character, or because some woman they love (probably their mother) fed them a blue pill version of how the world works and they still see the world in those terms.
    Nice guys aren’t secretly prideful jealous haters who fake being pleasant as a strategy. Maybe somebody is but the overwhelming majority aren’t. To suggest otherwise is feminist talking points, which our article writer is doing.
    If a former nice guy goes through the stages of grief, it is because he awakens to the knowledge that people he loved lied to him, not because he is a faking hater. Even the end of the article is wrong, because men who do understand the world do better with women or at least have the toolset to make intelligent life choices.

    1. I agree with your criticism of ‘feminist talking points’ which are really slut talking points, but I didn’t take that tack. Nice guys are using a strategy, consciously or not. Yes, nice guys are leveraging their preexisting personalities into a sexual strategy, except into one that doesn’t work.
      Also, unlike the sluts, I see nothing wrong with strategizing to get in a girl’s pants.

  10. Nice guys make the mistake of looking for a meaningful companionship with a woman.
    Won’t happen, she’s faking it 90% of the time. (read Predatory female)
    Real companionship comes from his friends, family and pets.
    Women are there for the breeding and sexual release, nothing more.

    1. Women think that humor, pleasantness, being enjoyable to be around, and being groomed are unrealistic expectations for men to have for women. None of these seem outlandish, unreasonable, or extremely difficult. So yeah, looking for a meaningful companionship with a woman isn’t going to happen. One has to look elsewhere.

      1. Women have zero wit, zero sense of humor, zero charm and candor but NO SHORTAGE of sarcasm and holier-than-thou snark.

      2. Once you stop looking for a girl that will also be your “best friend & lover” (marriage cartel propaganda) you realize that all women look for the same things:
        Security (80%), Companionship (20%)
        Notice the weight distribution favoring Security.
        Translation: Your female “best friend & lover” will replace you for another man if you don’t pay her bills (security) or she gets bored of you because she changed you into a doormat to ensure lifetime security.
        Ask any woman past her prime and still single why they stay single and most will tell you that they don’t want to support a man (since unemployed men are their only admirers now) so they rather stay single.

  11. It’s very simple. I tried being a gentleman to attract women. It didn’t work. I stopped being a gentleman and focused on taking them off of pedestals with humor & refusal to obey. It worked.
    I’ve explained this numerous times to friends, acquaintances, and co-workers. Nearly all men, except for hardened manginas and old men, get what I’m saying. Nearly all women go ballistic or tell me my own lived experience is fallacious. Keep telling yourself that cupcake.

    1. As for the old men, that’s cause in their day the women were actually ladies. As for the women, yep I’ve heard that. “You’re just going after the wrong women” ask them who they’re currently seeing…

      1. Agreed.
        Some women vomit out “not all women are like that” Others straight-up call me a misogynist. Others deny that this was my experience, meaning that their ignorant hamstering is more valid evidence on my lived experience than my lived experience. Idiots.

  12. Great article Emmanuel. Unless your dad was completely old school ( I mean pre-1968 old school) then almost all of us have transgressed the boundaries of masculinity in our relations with women. Most men from about 1975-currently were either raised in single mother households or two parent households where the dad was a complete bitch and sycophant to the mother’s ridiculous whims. This is what happens when the state legislates patriarchy out of existence, the dads who do end up staying will be of extremely low quality, because no real man would put up with a bitch.
    Now back to the main point, when one grows up in a household as broken and feminized as the homes most American boys (all Anglosphere boys) grow up in, leaves the average English speaking boy predisposed to a number of falsehoods and propaganda (because the mom’s themselves are brainwashed). He grows up thinking that chivalry is still a necessity in life, he grows up watching Disney movies, possibly dreaming of the fairytale ending along with his female prepubescent counterparts. The mother reinforces this belief through her numerous attempts at brainwashing him to be a “nice boy” who’ll one day grow up and be a “nice man (while she couldn’t be any more repulsed with a nice guy).” The dad is present, sits there and lets the brainwashing continue because he either is brainwashed himself and or is still petrified to speak up in his home, because the courts at any moment present the Siberian Gulag for men, so he stays silent.
    This boy grows up into a man, thinking that his marriage will be better than his parents and he’ll find the one, one day. He goes to High School and College where what he sees, shocks him, beautiful girls fucking asshole college athletes who treat them like crap, hot chicks fucking complete assholes, and he immediately puts himself in the position of beta comforter. He does this to no avail, and he seeks answers because everything that he thought was right, is not working for him. He either has two responses, take the blue and go back to sleep.
    If he does this, he emulate his bitch-dad and marry a cum dumpster when she’s 30-35, and possibly have a couple of genetically inferior children from her aged uterus, and live the rest of life in fear of the divorce and family courts. Lastly, he can take the red pill, which is the hardest for the beta mangina to cope with, because this would ultimately mean everything is bitch mother and faggoty dad told him, was wrong. He would have to position himself against his family, he could never look at them the same. He would have to come to grips with his entire adolescence and young adulthood being a LIE. A lie similar to the way Soviet Communism or Nazism was, a lie of gigantic proportions that when one awakes from it, they feel anger. Most men will take the blue pill, and the lucky few will take the red pill. Positioning oneself against the entire belief system of their single mothers or beta bitch dads is hard, trust me I know.
    Last word of advice for all young men and teens still living with their mothers, don’t listen to a single word she has to fucking say except “dinner’s ready.” Her advice is sexual death for you. Every parcel of information you’ve received up until this point is a lie and you must treat it as a lie. She’s not to blame herself because she’s a pawn in the game, but make no mistake about it, she’s a woman who’s not about turn against a system that puts women ahead of men. You can trust her mother love, but never trust her womanly instincts.

    1. Agree entirely. The father questions his own knowledge of women, and figures that ‘hey, mom is a woman, so she must know’ and defers all authority on the matter to her, in the home. Outside the home, he’s subject to the influence of TV, movies and his teachers, which are at least as bad. His only hope is wiser male peers and mentors, and keeping a keen eye on the reality within his own affairs.

        1. Oh look! Its another Manosphere beta female orbiter looking for upvotes from deh menz.

        2. Men like you are the reason anti-feminism will NEVER catch on as quick as it should. You complain women won’t ally with us yet when you see a potential female ally, you shoot her dead. What the hell, hero?

    2. True that. I live with my mom and she was not terribly happy when I said before I get marred, I will require a prenup.
      That was before I found out prenups can get thrown out…

      1. Better a prenup than none. I’ve had one cohabitation agreement and one prenuptual agreement and neither bitch decided to take the chance to fuck with it.

        1. This is something that’s been bugging me because I’m a christian and I don’t believe in having kids out of wedlock. at the same time I still don’t want to get messed over. I ran into a christian guy at a bus stop once, he got married thinking there wouldn’t be a divorce and he was divorced. I’m thinking “just don’t involved the government at all. check the common law rules and make your decision based upon those.”

        2. Damien, I’m also culturally Christian but we are not living in a country with any legalistic predispositions to any religion, the family or home. The state is firmly against the family and men. Patriarchy is the enemy of the state because the state cannot train the youth with it in the way (Marxism 101). It must be done away with. As a fellow King, the best advice I could give you is to leave the United States if you want a traditional woman along with a traditional marriage, where you can be the man of your home and family. Even if you bring one of these traditional girls back to America, she still has the corrupt “judicial” system behind her, in case she decides to change her mind about being a human being. The best you can get in America, is to find a decent girl with a minimum of 10 partners and probably the routine abortion. Cohabitation should be the most you’d be willing to undergo. As a brother in arms, do not think about marriage in the West. It’s a death sentence.

        3. “Even if you bring one of these traditional girls back to America,”
          Been there done that. Marrying a foreign woman is great as long as you keep her foreign. My Rooskie knew her place for 7 or 8 years, until her new Canadian girlfriends convinced her otherwise. Be prepared to expat for marriage, it’s the only way. Otherwise fuck’n’chuck here and rent the HWF (Hot Wifey Experience) abroad.
          Brothers In Arms, good song.

        4. Yeah I know, I’ve seen good foreign women go from being low maintenance, religious, sometimes even virginal pious girls to corrupt whores. The Western whore hates what she is not, and will detest it in other women. She will do everything possible to corrupt the good woman of her natural feminine virtue and her ability to ever be a good mother and wife. A man will celebrate and congratulate another man’s accomplishment or superiority in matters of fortitude and faith. A Western woman? She either wants to extract a man’s accomplishments in the form of its wealth and/or tear him down. Keep foreign women, foreign. It’s time men thought of a plan b, which involves emigrating out of the United States. Traditional living is impossible in the United States. This is a toxic wasteland with toxic women and bitch men as the majority. I am but a passerby in this strange land.

        5. I’m afraid you require more than one red pill, my friend. I believe in only one thing: my Being; of nothing else I am sure. Fuck ancient storytellers, my Gods are my Urges: eat, drink, fuck; whatever. When I see images of the universe, I see circles. I believe in circles. Snake eating tail. Round and round. Go up, go down, I don’t care. Come to think of it, I’d love to come back as a Grizzly.

        6. My deal is I don’t push my religion on others, but I don’t want others’ non-belief pushed on me in kind. Not saying you’re doing that, just that that’s where I’m coming from.

        7. The state is firmly against the family and men

          and therein lies the source of my confusion as to what to do?

          the best advice I could give you is to leave the United States if you want a traditional woman along with a traditional marriage, where you can be the man of your home and family.

          Now that answers that. I’ve been considering this. I think there’s a possibility America is just gonna go down the craphole (ok, it’s already there but I mean it’ll be even worse) and that it may be best to ditch before that happens. Not that I don’t love America, I do. I just hate what it’s become.

          “Eddie!!! I don’t like the way you treat me Eddie!”
          Cohabitation was also the route I was thinking. All of these options are the answer to my question “What is a young black Christian male to do in a society that increasingly hates males and Christians?”

        8. As you wish. But I will tell you, I believe in God, but I believe it thrives on our human (of many lifeforms) experiences. I believe every living thing is a ‘probe’ sent out by God, to gather experience and once its life has been exhausted, its ‘file’ is sent back to God to enjoy as an orgasm. Or a high. God requires an endless supply of orgasms/highs. God is addicted to orgasms/highs. We are endless probes for God’s amusement. We are God’s drug. God injects us.

        9. the social contract in regards to murder is that we don’t do that because if we start – it’s bad for everyone…. it makes a lot of sense… otherwise it would be constant war and fighting everywhere.
          now the social contract in regards to relationships was – i’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine… but now it’s – i’ll see if i can get you to scratch my back for free, without scratching yours… women have their game, men have their game, but it’s all fucking games…. it’s all about trying to get a freebie, rather than invest and get value…
          instead of stock investors we’re reduced to clipping coupons and applying for food stamps….
          and as they say… pay peanuts… get monkeys….. they just fuck in the trees and squabble and squark… that’s where the bulk of humanity is headed, straight into the ghetto…
          it seems that a good long term relationship today – relies on one thing MONEY – lots of it… sure you can game it, you can raise value and put up pretense… that will get you laid, but it won’t get you a wife…
          the only way to hold the respect, and have her tolerate your bad days, and give you the sex you want when you want it…..long term is to pay… but that’s been removed by the feminist divorce… she can take, she doesn’t want you to pay….
          now if you could structure it right…. threshold for a real good wife is probably $75-100k a year for her salary.. and you need to protect all your assets so she can’t rob you in court… it’s very difficult….
          but a real wife, is a massive asset… far better than some dumb slut for the night, or trying to spin plates, or mini relationships… those are just quick fixes….
          a real wife is like a private jet…. always ready for YOUR needs…. but you cannot get that long term without having a shit load of leverage and mainly it comes down to money…. the more of a grumpy fucker you are and the dirtier sex you want, the more money you need……

        10. “the social contract in regards to murder is that we don’t do that because if we start – it’s bad for everyone…. it makes a lot of sense… otherwise it would be constant war and fighting everywhere.”
          Please refer to The Clash’s “Know Your Rights” for an in-depth discussion …
          Know your rights — all three of ’em! 🙂
          We’re in a transitional phase — many of the programmes of “uplift” that were meant to convert r-selected groups into behaving more like K-selected groups have been more or less a bust. You might even be able to name a few — “global literacy” was my favourite, simply because it promised that perhaps some of the r-selected would turn into scholars instead of bunny breeders. It fit nicely with grand visions of “interplanetary manifest destiny”, which of course was the wet dream of American politicians since JFK.
          Instead, we have merely learned that we cannot train sheep to become wolves, no matter how many of the traits of wolves we care to impart.
          Now that the sheep have been prepared for shearing and that the genuine wolves have donned their requisite sunglasses (because their futures are bright, naturally), there will be a time of readjustment to the desired future programme.
          Part of that readjustment will involve shaping narratives and outcomes that fit the desired social changes.
          This is not deception.
          This is not an exercise of raw power.
          This is pest control.
          I believe The Clash said something about aristocrats in their discursion on your three rights, yes?

        11. That’s what my $500 companion said Wednesday night.
          25 years of tongue action….surprised the HPV throat cancer hasn’t killed me yet. Ha ha! Also the 30 years of boozing, and the 10+- years of smoking.

        12. Get rid of you christinity , that your poison you have to get out of you system before it destroys you. Read nietzsche and you ´ll understand what cristianity is all about.

      2. prenups can get thrown out? this fucking country. fucking western civilisation, freedom my ass

        1. ah i didnt realise it was in relation to a woman stealing a mans money rather than a man protecting his self gotten wealth

        2. Very rarely in Canada. Once she has independent counsel independently paid for by herself, she’s fucked.

        3. There is a slowly increasing number of reasons that a prenup can be thrown out in many U.S. states:
          *fraud (like not fully listing all assets / liabilities)
          * duress (not leaving enough time before the wedding to present/sign the prenup. Prenup should/must be signed before wedding invitations go out…Also, explicitly requiring prenup as condition of marriage, quite possibly)
          * lack of independent legal counsel before signing (she needs to have her own lawyer)
          * or even the woman’s claim claim that the prenup would expire at a certain point

    3. Very good analysis. DO NOT listen to your mother when it comes to relationships and dating. She’s going to simply give you the same canned, be-a-nice-guy crap advice that all women give. Your mother may love you, but she can NEVER understand the complex aspects of male sexuality. After all, she is a woman. Applied wisdom is not usually a woman’s strong suit. She does not view you as anything sexual, or even capable of sex. She likely still views you as a helpless infant or toddler in many ways. Plus, if you’re a grown man, why the fuck would you be crying to your mommy about this shit anyway?

    4. >He would have to position himself against his family, he could never
      look at them the same. He would have to come to grips with his entire
      adolescence and young adulthood being a LIE.
      This. I see it all the time now.
      My dad asks me to wash the dishes.
      My mom asks me why I don’t give girls in my social circle a ride when I’m going somewhere.
      In contrast to my former, ignorant self I know now this shit doesn’t get you anywhere, but I can’t talk to them about it.
      It’s sad that you can’t have a no-BS realtalk with most people.

  13. I have always been a “Nice Guy.” I’ve always lived by the philosophy that if you play your cards right, then you will get what you want. I thought treating a woman with respect, accommodation, chivalry, support, caring, and understanding was the way to her heart and the way to make relationship grow strong and last. “She is my love and my best friend!” I thought. I would help her through her problems in life and she would help me through mine. We would be a team that was always honest, open, and nurturing to one another…
    Then I got shit on and disrespected by almost every women I treated this way in one way or another in the end. All it did was lead to heartache and years of my life wasted on relationships that ended up in the toilet. You need to REALLY understand what being a “Nice Guy” is really all about. It’s about codependency. It’s about loss of identity. It’s about pedestalization.
    Men who are “Nice Guys” identify themselves by the relationships they have with women. They think they are at their best when they are in love and sharing their life with a female. They can’t be 100% on their own. They can’t be completely independently happy. they can’t be socially content without having a consistent woman in their life. they are the same men that like to spend every waking moment with their significant other. They will push aside their friends for their significant other. They see themselves as a great support system, shoulder to cry on, etc. When a woman’s hamster has fallen off the wheel, they want to be able to put it back on and get it spinning again.
    Honestly… one of, if not THE hardest Red Pill truth to swallow. You can’t be that guy. It’s hard but you CAN’T be that guy.

    1. “As men, we want to believe that right action brings worldly reward. If we do the right thing, God will reward us on this Earth. Of course, this is manifestly false—bad things happen to good people.”
      This is why girls don’t play by the rules, they count on nice guys to follow on their integrity/character when they don’t have any…

    2. This is impossible in the West, maybe if you were marrying a 16 year old Persian virgin who’d want to be an obedient, loving and loyal wife then maybe. However, you can’t treat an American woman this way. The average American whore starts on the carousel at 13-14 and by the time she’s eligible in America at 18, she’ll be ruined. Most men will deal with these types when they’re in the 20s, beyond the point of no return. Chivalry existed when women were virgins upon marriage and corresponded to ladylike behavior and customs. Chivalry was/is not a standard of treatment for ANY woman, but for a PARTICULAR type of woman. Most of these particulars make up oh let’s say, 000.1% of the population in the West. Chivalry is dead and women killed it.

        1. Emphasis of what? It doesn’t mean anything. Sure you didn’t mean 0.001%? Math is hard right?

        2. I decided to go ahead and switch it to 0.001% of the population even though the previous stat was for emphatic reading. After reading that cunt Barbie’s comment, I decided the particulars are even rarer. Do engage with conversation with a woman on this site. Only attention seeking whores, or Jezebel skanks come to this site.

        3. Don’t think I’ve ever read a scientific paper where decimals were written as .001 instead of 0.001… thats just bad notation…

      1. No, officially they where virgins but in practice things where somewhat different.
        A bad reputation was a problem hovewer.

    3. >Men who are “Nice Guys” identify themselves by the relationships they have with women. They think they are at their best when they are in love and sharing their life with a female. They can’t be 100% on their own. They can’t be completely independently happy. they can’t be socially content without having a consistent woman in their life. they are the same men that like to spend every waking moment with their significant other. They will push aside their friends for their significant other. They see themselves as a great support system, shoulder to cry on, etc. When a woman’s hamster has fallen off the wheel, they want to be able to put it back on and get it spinning again.
      this shit hit home man

      1. yes in the extreme case… but sometimes you don’t want to have to live under pretenses, sometimes you want to invest in a person and have them invest back in you… that doesn’t all have to be done in weakness… but women seem so manipulating and entitled that so much as flattering her about her dress sends her brain into a spasm… and has her looking for the next guy…. or if you are having a great time, she’ll get jealous and try to drag down your vibe… it’s just lose, lose… it’s to the point of shut up and fuck, shut up and wash the dishes, shut up and get out, shut up and give me a back massage etc. etc.
        you either have to play so many games and be so manipulating all the time, or if you want to relax and drop your guard you might as well just put a hooker on contract.

    4. basically what those guys want is the soft nurturing environment of a family, something like what they had when they were kids – or what they wished they had as kids ….. but what they don’t understand is that they are effectively the head of the family, (even if it’s just a ONS), the man runs the show….
      you cannot be a comfortable relaxed passenger on the ship and also be the captain…. the captain is shitting bricks all night while the passengers are asleep…. he’s running the show, but it’s his ship…. if he goes to the passengers with all his problems they will probably jump ship….
      this is your average woman…
      now there may be some women that are worthy of being crew on the ship, but even the crew will leave if the captain doesn’t have his shit together, giving orders and not always playing nice….
      the question is where does the captain get his relaxation and nurturing environment from time to time…. you can’t just be a hard ass 24/7…
      if you are always on display to your passengers and crew, where do you chill out, where do you make mistakes, where do you talk to someone when you have doubts ? how do you exist in an environment where you are constantly under scrutiny and being judged…. that’s how the average woman is now, they are not relaxing… a hooker is more relaxing than a date…. i want to chill out and take my battle armor off sometimes….

      1. I am reminded of Tristan Jones’s adventures with women on sailboats — he stated flatly that women on single-handed sailboats are supremely bad luck.
        Perhaps you’re right — if they want to be crew. It’s more common that they want to be like the passengers while pretending to be crew …

      2. For the Christian at least one can pour out their soul in prayer to God. As the warrior david did taking refuge in God.

    5. Thanks for this, General. You just summed up 30 years of my life. It is painful to break out of but utter torture to remain in it. Jerry

  14. Brilliant. We need to send this to all manboobs of the world so they get past stage 1 and 2.

    1. Agreed. This site should have existed 20 years ago.
      I have learned stuff in the last 24 hours that never occurred to me before.

        1. Not at all.
          See the comments above (if you can be bothered, its optional) and someone rightly pointed out that I was being delusional in my expectations of some people.
          I consider that to be an important lesson.

  15. The male equivalent of the slut is not the player with a high notch count, but the Nice Guy. A slut fritters away her youth and beauty by giving them away to anyone who gives her tingles. The Nice Guy is promiscuous with emotional, and often material, investment. He always pays for dinner, he always lets her cry on his shoulder when her latest alpha bad boy inevitably dumps her, he promises to always be there for her as she starts following the next alpha who catches her eye.
    The player might give the slut one night of his attentions, but Nice Guys are lucky to even get that much from their girl friends. And to add insult to injury, more and more women are saying that Nice Guys aren’t really Nice Guys! Talking them down from their betatude before it becomes terminal is a great service to them, no matter how much it may hurt them.

  16. Oh the nice guy… I know a lot of these men, and they are usually quite young. I work with a few, and they are always getting trampled on by the bitches at my workplace.

    1. I bet you just stand there while those bitches berate him, don’t you? Why don’t you tell that guy to grow some fucking balls or refer him to this site? You probably don’t even have enough empathy or morality to do that even.

        1. He’s not hopeless. Its been a huge eyeopener for him. He’s just been reading for now, and I know he will do well and learn well.

        2. Lol no, just someone I’ve been told I look like. Ill change my avatar soon to a pic of myself.

      1. Women can’t empathize with men, absolutely impossible. Empathy in that case would directly interfere with their hypergamous nature.

        1. People can have empathy for others while at the same time desiring the best possible mate for themselves. There is no contradiction between empathy and mate selection.

        2. Actually, there is. When i say “Women can’t empathize with men” i’m obviously refering to potential mates. Female hypergamy selects men on the basis of ‘fitness’ (especially mental fitness/strength) A man requiring – female – empathy is seen as weak and gets automatically deselected. A woman sympathizing with a men either feels:
          1. pity
          2. revulsion
          Both will obviously turn her of ‘romantically’.

      1. I love this site, no Feminazis filters only street truth.
        Now back to the program…Show us your little tits Ashley or GTFO!

    1. LMAO!!! I stopped reading after 5. In fact this could be advice for getting a woman to leave you alone. Treating them like crap brings them back for more, however if you did the opposite, it might work wonders.

    2. I read so much bullshit like this in the past.
      I am so sick of these lies, fuck it!

  17. “the friendship explodes in a beautiful fit of dork rage and repressed lust.”
    LOLz. excellent article. I learned all this the hard way, but I wish I knew this in college. Great article.

  18. Women actually have a valid point regarding nice guys imo. It’s easy to see that when a guy is giving you compliments and doing you favors all the time when all he hardly knows anything about you besides you being attractive, that he’s only interested in you for your sexual appeal. It still doesn’t fully justify all of their ridiculous behaviors and general mistreatment of nice guys, but their dislike of nice guys is understandable to an extent.

    1. Take this even further. Think about women who hit on you. In my experience, women who hit on me are not attractive. It’s not that the act of hitting on men makes a woman unattractive per se (although there may be something to that because hitting on men isn’t traditionally feminine); it’s that women who hit on men are by definition not attractive to that particular man or he would already be hitting on them.
      Now imagine this from a female perspective. A “nice guy” is one who doesn’t hit on her overtly, he doesn’t explicitly set the tone of their encounters in sexual terms, etc. In other words, he doesn’t act like a man towards her. It’s as but a turn off to a woman for a man to not act like a man as it is to us for a woman to not act like a woman.
      Being a “nice guy” is asking to be friendzoned, and being OK with it when it inevitably happens.

  19. When I started reading the article a small voice inside of me felt a little disconnected and didn’t wanna read it. I’ll always remember what David Deangelo said in that case: Everytime you want to disconnect while hearing or reading something is because it is a truth that you don’t wanna hear.
    That was a great article because everyone fluctuates between the stages and it reminded me of it. Some great writers on ROK always helps us with goins over the basics once in a while, To be a master, you must be a master of the basics!

  20. There’s a huge difference between being a “nice guy” and actually being a decent human being. Unfortunately, most nice guys never realize this and are stuck in their self-perpetuating cycle.
    I enrich people who enrich me. I don’t do things for people who haven’t earned whatever I’m going to do. That means that when I deal with women, I make them earn my approval rather than me trying to earn their approval.

  21. Interesting blog all-around, some points I can sympathize and agree to – other topics I am more optimistic re. perceived prospects of future as a society.
    In any case, I wanted to direct any blogger of this site to this post, published 01/14/14:
    Some text includes:
    “It is, by extension, a model for everything we Anglophone women have lost in our post-feminist, consumerist world: refinement, discretion, moderation, and above all sexiness.”
    “The school of feminism that advocated policing the private sphere as well as the public one seemed to bypass France during the 1960s and 70s. French feminism, esoteric as it was, left the roles traditionally played by men and women virtually untouched, nor did there seem to be any appetite among the population at large to revolutionise private relations between the sexes.”
    “So what lies behind the French woman’s ineffable charm? For a start, because she hasn’t been entirely reconstructed by feminism, she’s playing a more traditional role.”
    Thoughts on the French femelle?

  22. like I always say, to get into a woman’s heart you must make her love your money, or your penis. Women like the penis. And the money. You must fuck a way into their hearts. You must make them worship your cock.

  23. “Even in the manosphere, among self-styled ‘Red Pill’ men, there is lots of anger.”
    Bingo. Finally someone says it. I struggle with being able to continue to respect those who have written certain articles, as the fascetious overtone has become implorable. I found myself shaking my head at ‘3 Reasons to Go All Out on Her Birthday’. Sane women whom love the men in their lives do not behave this way.
    Perhaps instead of reitterating how shitty women have the capacity to be, more articles should be written on the exceptions to the rule. I would do so, but the rules state that a woman’s contribution to this site is unacceptable. I have to say that it’s a kick in the teeth to consistently read about how little I am worth to the personality types I hold in high regard, simply for possessing a vagina. Not to mention that I take care of myself, but that’s a topic for another day.
    In regards to male and female, life is not ‘us vs them’. It’s a partnership between men and women, and within the sexes (that is to say male/male and female/female friendships) it is comradarie.
    As a potential solution to the ‘nice guy’ complex, try embodying game as a personal philosophy. Because game is more than the ability to pick up women. Game is genuine human interaction once it becomes mastered. Game is self respect and dignity, treating others with kindness yet, being able to get what you want in life without stepping on anyone’s toes. Learning this elusive social code has made every interaction a success. You just have to be in the right state of mind to put the tactics to work.

    1. Anger is a normal human emotion, and people need a safe outlet for their agression. Would you rather anonymous angry comments on the internet, or angry people shooting up movie theatres?

      1. It’s called a diary, a journal if you will. This behaviour is little more than childish name calling.

    2. ” . . .more articles should be written on the exceptions to the rule. I would
      do so
      , but the rules state that a woman’s contribution to this site is unacceptable.”
      Perhaps you should visit
      “I have to say that it’s a kick in the teeth to consistently read about how little I am worth to the personality types I hold in high regard . . .”
      You have an alpha boyfriend, but you still wish to bait.
      ” . . .simply for possessing a vagina. ”
      If you do not bring more to the table.

      1. You wish to speak to me of bait? Please, you taunted me upon reading the first comment I made. You instigated something that was context sensitive, and then proceeded to throw silly game theory at me of which I was already aware, in an effort to shake my confidence in my love. Nothing had to be demonstrated. Save the Latin for moments when your character is put to the test and not your pittance of internet pride. The ground on which you stand is shaky at best.

        1. ” . . . you taunted me upon reading the first comment I made.”
          You made a positive claim. I tested it. You evaded.
          Can you stoke? Do you ride at all?
          ” . . .in an effort to shake my confidence in my love.”
          Your claim had nothing to do with your love, which I really don’t give a damn about.
          “. . .throw silly game theory at me . . .”
          I’m not much for game theory. I pointed out that “Babe” is a generic pet name favoured by players to avoid having to remember and keep straight individual women’s names. That isn’t game theory. That’s fact.
          And, to keep things fair, I pointed out that women call me “Hon” for exactly the same reason.
          That was in response to your second post. The first one in which you evaded.
          “The ground on which you stand is shaky at best.”
          The ground I stand on is solid. Yours exists only on sufferance.
          This is Return of Kings. It is not female safe space. Here you will be judged.
          Do you ride? Can you ride fixed? Can you stoke?
          Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do.

    3. Your worth isn’t low because you have a vagina, its low because you seem to think that your vaj alone makes you valuable. I mean you might be the next Isaac Newton, but its usually a safe bet in Amerika that if you’re a woman under 26 and even remotely good looking, you live in a fairy tale land where meals buy themselves and the worst day of your life is when someone DIDN’T fall all over themselves to help you. So let the grown-ups talk.
      …and “whom” follows a preposition; hope you cook better than you write.

      1. “the worst day of your life is when someone DIDN’T fall all over themselves to help you”
        THIS ^^

      2. Is that what you honestly believe? that I think such things about myself without saying so? Because I have the nerve to provide an insight unlike your own? You are wrong. You would assume me to be American and you would be wrong. You would assume that I have no work ethic, no morale and must believe myself to be entitled. You would also be wrong. Who I am is not something I feel the need to defend to the likes of internet scum. Perhaps take point of my reply to Mr. Goldstein to highlight my concern.
        Only a coward uses grammar as fuel to aid a point. Though the misuse of ‘its’ is a greater offense than the misuse of ‘whom’, when you consider the difficulty of its placement. I believe you meant ‘it’s’, as the apostrophe is a conjunction meaning ‘it is’. That word is far more common and something that should be used properly when making a point. But I digress. And yes, I do believe I cook far better than I write, as cooking is something I can share with those I love.

        1. …like I said, you might be the next Isaac Newton. And even if you are, just the greatest thing since spice racks, it doesn’t change the monumental pain in the ass that Western men are saddled with, that being the modern liberated woman.
          So if you are, in fact, just the bestest thing ever, and not Amerikan, and ever so insightful, then my (prospective) opinion of you should make little difference.
          And if you can in fact cook as well as you say, well, a sammich would be nice; “it’s” nearly lunchtime where I am.

    4. Shut up and go put up your Bitch Shield, get your Starbucks with your lululemon yoga pants and stare at your stupid ass smartphone some more while you check your twitter and facebook.

      1. Do as your master says. Oh wait you don’t even your masters…
        Hahaha dumb Iphone/Yoga pants sheep.

    5. It’s not that you or every other girl are worthless per se. It’s that 99% of the content of advice to men from women is either attention whoring, falsehoods or both. So you’ve got a 99% bullshit rate, paired with the inability of most men to discern that what’s coming out of a woman’s mouth is bullshit. Ergo, if nothing else, a man deciding not to listen to women (or lame, weak men) is one of the smartest things he can do.

      1. I have no disagreement, but where my concern lies is in the animosity towards women. I mean, just look at the aggression towards my comment when I offered only suggestions and an egalitarian point of view. It is deeply troubling that this is the reception I am met with; one that is riddled with hatred. And for what? I worry that this deep seeded anger and arrogance will transgress throughout our society and the results shall be entirely detrimental. I don’t believe that any of these men (or boys, as their maturity level rivals that of an unruly teenager) will become functioning citizens if they can’t learn to accept both the challenges and potential of the women in their lives.
        Return of Kings is a place I found on /fit during fat shaming week that I use as a means of empowerment, life lessons to apply and examples of how to never behave as a woman. The difference between us is physical and hormonal, but character is something that transcends the genders. Integrity, honesty, and ingenuity are traits that all humans either possess or have the capacity to acquire. It saddens me that a large subset of the population truly believes that by simply being born with a penis, one is of greater worth than a woman. That’s where my concern lies and why I will continue to challenge this archaic philosophy.

    6. You are a pretty young girl, you will never face our daily struggles.
      Now what part of “Girls not allowed to post here” don’t you understand?
      So what if we are angry? I’m not angry.
      Now pretty please with sugar on top, fuck off.

      1. That is utterly adorable and entirely ignorant. How can you assume the lived experience of another based on a singular comment and a miniaturized photograph? The reality is that you can’t. Although I may appear to have the world by the balls that is not, nor has ever been the case.
        Have you ever read the fable of ‘The Ugly Duckling’? That was my adolescence in a nutshell. Some are born with beauty, while others grow into it. I have faced rejection far greater than I care to articulate; loneliness and betrayal up the ass. You think women can be mean to nice guys? That’s nothing compared to the degree that we can hate each other, and top that off with being rejected by the opposite sex. Because of this shit I live my life treating every person I meet with kindness and respect. I make observations and draw conclusions based on those observations. I make judgements of character based on how an individual treats myself, and how they treat others. Nothing less and nothing more.

    7. “You just have to be in the right state of mind to put the tactics to work.”
      I’m in the right state of mind to bust a nut on your face.

    8. “In regards to male and female, life is not ‘us vs them’. It’s a partnership between men and women”
      What is a partnership in marriage?
      A business contract which means husband vs. wife in terms of a divorce.
      You just proved my point you dumb gash.

  24. “Nice Guy” is a misnomer in my opinion. Self proclaimed nice guys are emotionally needy, clingy, asskissers, all qualities that women roundly despise. Those aren’t “nice” qualities. Traits like being down to earth, kind, generous, and positive CAN attract women.

    1. “Traits like being down to earth, kind, generous, and positive CAN attract women.”
      They sure can. Scalping a generous beta provider can, indeed, make for a comfortable early retirement. Smart girl.

  25. Just gonna put this out there… You can be ASSERTIVE and CONFIDENT while still being a genuinely good guy. You can still pay for dinner and call a woman on her bullshit when she treats you poorly. Doing something nice and not being a door mat are NOT mutually exclusive.
    Most of these so called “nice guys” don’t respect themselves and have low self esteem. They’re generally clingy and needy, qualities men don’t even want in women. They need to learn to respect themselves and be happy by themselves before they can learn to respect and be happy with a partner.
    Also, mistreating or being a jerk to any person, man or woman is still a sign of insecurity and lack of self respect. How you treat other people is a reflection of how you feel about yourself. Honestly, any woman that would put up with that has low self esteem (and with that comes baggage) in the first place, and you’ll learn after enough times why you don’t really want a “submissive” woman.
    Part of growing up and become a mature adult is learning your personal boundaries and asserting them in a respectful manner. When you can learn to do that and see yourselves as equals to another person, you can have a fulfilling relationship, or hell even friendship.

    1. The ones who self-describe as Nice feel entitled to women and are basically stamping their feet like a toddler in want of a shiny toy. What makes any good woman attractive, we work on ourselves – hair, body, demure clothes and makeup, the upkeep alone takes hours. They expect an equal share of relationship gains in spite of uneven investments.

      1. You’re right about this. A lot of self-described “nice guys” are entitled assholes who think they deserve a girl just because he happens to find her attractive.
        There’s a huge difference between a “nice guy” and an integrous man of character.

        1. Being nice equates to friendship and being a decent human being, they’ve been reinforced with the message they’ll get the Girl at the end of the story if they keep hovering long enough. Happens all the time in Hollywood.

        2. Real life enforces this as well though too. Persistent guys sometimes end up with the girl, sometimes they don’t. Worst thing I did for myself in college was naively announce that I was single and dating sounded fun because the most experience I had was a high school bf, and chick flicks made dates look fun. I learned two things: I HATED the dating scene for several reasons (probably for the same reason I hate small talk), and guys do. not. leave. you. alone. Anyway, I had a guy that was my friend at the time who I hung with the whole time that I vented to that dating wasn’t as fun as I thought it would be. Sneaky man, took me out for fun times without calling them dates for a little while before just asking me out. I told him yes on the condition I’m never getting married or having kids. 7 years later and we’re married with a baby on the way. Clever man. So persistence does pay off for some guys.
          Generally though, most guys will back off once a girl has a bf. Nice guys don’t, and then get upset when they’re not picked for the next round either if she gets a new bf. They need to understand that if they’re investing in friendship, that’s what they’re going to get. If they’re investing in a relationship, they need to learn when to move on to the next girl instead of getting upset and bitter about it.

        3. Clever man, congrats.
          I did the polar opposite: announced whenever the subject was brought up I wasn’t dating anyone at all to focus on my education no matter who they were. Never had so many offers in such a short space of time.
          The girls don’t owe them a relationship from friendship or straight women wouldn’t be friends with lesbians.

        4. Both of you are total fucking cunts and I wish to god you would get the fuck off our website.
          Surely if you both are such perfect females specimens you have something better to do than harass us?

        5. You know, thinking ALL women are the enemy is a great way to make that a self-fulfilling prophecy in your life.
          Delusions of persecution lol you are willingly engaging us right now, which way dost the harassment run?

    2. Nice guy is not the same as a “good” man. Nice guys are usually not very nice and full of rage deep inside.

    3. Shut up and go put up your Bitch Shield, get your Starbucks with your
      lululemon yoga pants and stare at your stupid ass smartphone some more
      while you check your twitter and facebook.

  26. Self-described ‘Nice Guys’ disgust women because they have nothing else to offer. It’s used in Europe as a thinly veiled insult. You’re nice? So fucking what? Dogs are nice too, and better company, less slobbering than a man trying to slowly push his presence on a woman who wasn’t interested. At least player short term strategy types have more honest intentions (and know when to quit).

  27. Is learning LTR game worth it?
    They claim this is the current timeline for the average American LTR/Marraige

    1. I have this drinking game where every time you see a black man promoted as the ideal mate for a woman of some other race, you drink. Be sure you clear your schedule, you’ll be tore up before lunch.

  28. Glad I read this article. Just starting to ingest the red pill (was stuck on stage 2 for at least 3 yrs) and having much better success now.

  29. It’s not that nice guys can’t win, but they’d have to go pretty far. I was one of those man-hating feminazis before I met my boyfriend, to the point that even my best female friends were afraid to introduce me to men. I’m still angry all the time, but my boyfriend has really changed me through his patience and gentleness. I’m becoming more like him every day. Now I cook both Western and Eastern food pretty well and I do his laundry. I’m making a real effort to become as good of as woman as possible because he is such a good person that he deserves a better woman than who he picked.

      1. Are you the same guest who thinks Autism isn’t real? You’re not even a beta male, you’re one of those socially retarded omega males who hate women because they won’t even let you orbit around them. I’m certainly sick of you trying to provoke me into talking to you. I don’t know how much this alpha male game stuff is going to work for you, since you seem to lack the basic social awareness to even be around people. Why don’t you go watch Barney instead so you can figure out how normal people talk to each other.

  30. This idea that women dont like nice guys is a myth. Women like 3 types of guys: the ones that they are physically attracted to, guys with status and guys with charisma. All of those three could be labeled as “nice guys” and women would still like them. Women DONT like 4 types of guys: guys that they arent physically attracted to, socially awkward guys, disrespectful guys and guys that have conspicuously low social status.
    If a woman has labeled you as “too nice” thats usually code for her either not being attracted to you physically, her thinking that you have too low of a social status or you just not having the type of charisma that turns her on.
    This can proven by observing in real time how girls act around guys that they just met that you can tell that their digging. Their usually hanging on his every word and pretty much everything that he does is legit in her eyes as long as its not something thats just outright totally out of left field…..and even then he can recover if she really is naturally attracted to him.
    Not trying to go against the grain for the sake of an argument but i really get sick of the alpha vs beta theory and the nice guy vs bad boy theory. Both are extremely tired in my opinion and have no real validity outside of the minds of over analytical guys.

    1. Well there’s a difference between a guy that is nice and a “nice guy”. There’s also a difference between a “nice guy” and a girl trying to spare his feeling by rejecting him saying “You’re really nice guy, but…”.
      A good rule of thumb is that if what you’re doing to be nice could be done by her girl friend without her questioning whether she’s a lesbian or not, you’re doing it wrong.
      But, yeah I agree with you. If a guy is attractive and a girl finds him attractive, his social awkwardness will become “cute” and “quirky”. A guy a girl isn’t attracted to is just socially awkward and weird. But the same goes for girls. Attractive girls get away with (everything!) being clumsy and socially awkward, if the guys are attracted to her, otherwise she’ll get picked on. I think we can conclude from this that attractive people are cut more slack.
      I am tired of the tropes too though, especially from the so called “nice guys”. Going to the opposite end of the spectrum and being a jerk to girls because “girls like jerks” won’t get them girls either. I can promise all these angry guys aren’t getting anymore girls now than they were then if they’re treating them anything like how they’re typing. They’re not going to get any girls until they stop thinking about them like prizes to be won, but that’s a story for a different day. 😛

      1. Incorrect. Acting like a complete and utter asshole generally results in attracting lots of women.
        I wish it weren’t this way, but it is. Ignoring girls, going on “break”, telling them I see other girls, etc. results in those girls wanting to sleep with me.
        Being a gentleman gets me nowhere at all.
        I’ve actually conducted tests by selecting girls from a consistent pool (college students or grad students) and then trying both approaches on each of them. The jerk always wins. The gentleman always loses.

  31. How To Get Rid of a Nice Guy Who Is After Your Woman
    Nice guys, not being nice at all, often try to steal another man’s girlfriend, especially a girlfriend with a long-distance relationship with her boyfriend because that’s how those sleazy, underhanded bastards roll. So-called nice guys love to get crushes on other guys’ girlfriends and follow them like puppies and badmouth the boyfriend. It’s all too common, and all too pathetic. So what do you do if you’re at one school, your lady friend is at another, and there’s some dopey undergrad flattering the hell out of her, trying to get some approval and maybe a kiss and furtive grope?
    No, you don’t have to kill him.
    Try this. Some guy, let’s call him “Brian,” had a girlfriend at a school in Lexington, Ky. when he was going to grad school. Brian heard about this would-be suitor before he went to visit his girlfriend whom we’ll call “Maria.” Brian invited this nice-guy dope to a party in Maria’s room and plied everyone with alcohol. Pretty soon, everyone was playing “Truth or Dare.” He dared this guy to kiss his girlfriend while he watched, stripped down to his underwear. Maria’s roommate was sitting there stripped down to her bra and panties and obviously aroused. There were a couple of other spectators who were too wussy to play. Anyway, Maria slobbered drunkenly all over the dope’s face and fell back, her big brown tits bobbing out of her burgundy Victoria’s secret bra, a half-moon of a 3 inch wide coffee colored nipple sticking out. The nice-guy fuck got disgusted and left, never to contact Maria again.
    Problem solved! Then Brian fucked her so hard she almost turned white while the roommate furtively watched from her bunk. Debauchery is always the best policy.

  32. Gross. “Nice guys” are giving a bad name to actual nice guys. Women don’t go for nice guys that are not interesting. You don’t have to be mean. Just don’t be so freakin boring. The truth is, if you’re whining because women don’t like you because you’re too nice…the reality is that you’re probably just boring. Also, if every woman had sex with every nice guy she meets, well, you’d call her an unsavory word. Because your type of nice guy isn’t actually nice. You’re worse than a “bad boy,” because bad boys know that they are jerks. “Nice guys” delude themselves into thinking they’re nice, while believing women owe them sex and a relationship. You call actual nice guys assholes because you’re jealous that they’re getting laid. Example: Bill Gates…nice, he keeps giving money to charity and send like a genuinely nice person. He’s also insanely rich, smart, and talented. I bet you anything he’s getting some.

    1. This wasn’t directed towards the author, just towards every self-proclaimed nice guy who is mad that women are selfish and stupid and horrible enough to not have sex with men as nice as them.

    2. And you don’t have to be a genious, or a rich man, to get a woman. You just have to be nice AND something else. You don’t go for women JUST because they’re nice. Something must interest you about them. Something must stand out.

    3. “Bill Gates…nice”
      Bill Gates is the biggest piece of shit on this world.
      He is behind GMO (Monsanto) food you dumb gash.

  33. I’ve always been a Nice Guy. I pull chairs outfor men. I constantly complement them. I am there for them night and day when they have girl problems because they always only date bitches. They reward these bitches with sex. I cannot understand why these manwhores won’t reward the nice guys like me. With sex. And relationships. Obviously it’s because I’m a Nice Guy.

  34. It’s tough to model your article on Kubler-Ross and then say one of the stages doesn’t really exist. I see some cogent points, but I’m not completely won over. Being an overly nice guy is definitely for simps, a losing game. But I don’t know that nice guy needs to enter all these stages to change, it can be cleaner cut or more subtle than this.
    As an ex-niceguy, or a semi-nice guy, (? if there is such a thing), I knid of went another route. I broke upwith my model ex GF and started dating a whip-smart, super kind attorney who is maybe a .5-1.0 point lower in the looks department. But because she sees me as a tad more desirable and is always on the look out for other women eyeing me up, (or was early on, you build real trust after 12 years…or you’re pretty fucked), I’ve never had a woman work so hard to keep me interested in building an equitable relationship. Even after 12 years she wakes up at 5:30 to hit the gym every damn day. And because she puts in the work, it makes me WANTto do the same. My Mother’s only advice before I got married was, “If you want it to last, make sure she’s your best friend”. And it’s been true. Because of this paradigm, I’m freely able to be a nice guy. I had my years of AAA nani playing in clubs of NYC. Once you hit 32-33, even that gets tired.
    When I was young, the older women would tell me, “You’re a nice guy, wait it out”. Ofcourse by 19-20 I was like “Fuck that!” and changed my ways, although I preferred older women who played less games. But by 33-35 things caught up and with the paradigm I describe above, I was able to go back to being a decent man and still NOT get walked over. But you have to look for women who have worked on themselves. This is something I wanted anyway. If you’re fishing in the wrong pond, you’ll never obtain the results you desire anyway. Carefully vet your pond say I, before you dip your line in the water. But while sure, one has to play the game by the rules extant, its not always needed to change”who you are to get results”

  35. Oh please god forbid a woman just wants to be friends with some one, the moment a woman doesnt want to have sex with you its like the end of the world, wow shit, just because your friends with a girl doesnt mean automatic sex, respect her choices, go polish your fedoras or something, dammit you guys are idiots

  36. “I also know these men are not getting laid. If a man says “I don’t want to become the kind of man that getting laid would require” – fine, that is an acceptable response – but it requires that you stop giving a fuck about getting laid. Of course, very few men can do that – if you are young and healthy, your sex drive won’tallow it. Your lust is going to show one way or another. So these men settle into whining all the time.”
    So, in one breath you say their choice is acceptable while insulting them for feeling the pain and failing to react like they’re dead to it?
    What the hell do you want, just because a man takes the high road doesn’t mean he’s made out of marble.
    They’re being tortured for their beliefs by their own bodies and you mock them as weak and pathetic because they scream? What’s the matter with you?

  37. The one thing I learned when dating girls (and ending up with a wife I’m very happy with):
    1. If you see a girl that’s hot, tell her and ask for her number. If she says no, forget her.
    2. When the moment comes to grab her, do it. If she makes excuses, drop her.
    3. When you’re dating a girl that has the rare combination of good looks, emotional stability, loyalty, and intelligence, start saving for an engagement ring. That’s pretty much it.

  38. And so I have come to the conclusion of being mentally unstable. For the simple fact that my sexual desire has diminshed extremely ever since I hit stage five.

  39. I would believe this. If it didn’t completely reject the philosophy that built modern society. The way to be a man is not to refuse to take accountability the same way western women do. Maybe we need to realize that a society that abandons rewarding good character has no reason to exist. Hard to accept, maybe you may have to go through the five stages of grief for it, lol. Everyone becomes apathetic in a society where you are encouraged and told you can do anything, it just won’t mean anything. The Roman’s thought they were invincible in their debauchery too, until the shepherds (producers, scientists, and moral members of society) had all died or left, which will eventually happen here. You make a lot of good points on this site, but many authors, you included, fail to address what will happen when the shepherds are gone and only wolves are left. I guess it is too hard for people to imagine tearing each other apart.
    I will get attacked for this, but I respectfully disagree with the assertion that the response to unchecked destructive behavior is to start encouraging it yourself though your own actions. I’d rather continue to improve myself and then take my talents elsewhere.

  40. No one who blogs for this site seems to have gotten beyond the “anger” stage.

  41. I am a former fatass who lost a lot of weight and became pretty damn good looking, while retaining the nice guy mindset. And for awhile despite having the advantages of height, intelligence, and handsomeness that lot of sexually succesful men lack and I was still striking out, I don’t think I ever really became an uber alpha male douche, I am able to get female attention fairly easily without doing that but to follow through and really get a woman’s interest and full attention you can’t be a pussy. I’m not saying you can’t be “nice”, I always try to be very respectful and am often admiring of the girls I am interested in, but you can’t give up because she has a bitch shield and you can’t wait on her hand and foot. I like women, I like hanging out with women, I like bonding with women and I like fucking women and some of them I truly respect but I think a lot of “Nice” guys deep down don’t really like women and are afraid of them and so they use a method of attraction that allows them to feel “good” about themselves while actually repelling women…

  42. I’ve found the key is to be assertive, stand your ground and most importantly be a man!! No one likes an asshole which I found doesn’t work in a long term relationship. Dont get me wrong it works great for attracting sluts but for long term it’s a no no.

  43. This didn’t actually help nice guys to find out what they can do to get the girl in the end. It just says that they’re bitches for being nice.

  44. Women fucking hate nice guys. I was trying to get rid of a girl who I had been not so nice, and plenty domineering, to. She wouldn’t stop chasing me. Then I got an idea: be super nice to her. I’m not kidding, she soon left me alone.

  45. Women are just too stupid to understand that the nice guy is respecting them. If respect and caring doesn’t equal the same then why do that? lie and treat them like shit. If you get a better response then keep going.. Don’t cast your pearls before swine

  46. I think one problem nice guys frequently encounter is that when they stumble upon, say, “how-to-seduce-women” products or hear about seduction/game seminars, etc., they find themselves unable to afford the outrageous costs of those things, and so they give up because they are unable to find resources that are free. I am in the process of trying to locate resources like this, and it is an uphill battle. My determination hasn’t faltered, but I won’t lie when I say it is friggin’ frustrating as hell. Women can find seduction advice for themselves for the price of a magazine subscription, while men have to shell out hilarious amounts to find the same thing for themselves. Why do guys with money have to have all the fun?

    1. I don’t think a copy of Roosh’s ‘Bang’ will set you back as much as a magazine subscription.

    2. The content on this website and on Roosh’s blog is free, and so is the content of every PUA’s blog. Getting a gym membership or buying so home workout equipment would be a much better investment than spending hundreds of dollars in PUA books and seminars. Not that they cannot be useful but they are going to tell you to lift weight anyway so you might aswell start with that.

  47. I think the Nice Guys should go through these 5 steps in about 5 minutes. I saw this when I was 17 years. I accepted it like an unchangeable law of physics. You don’t get mad when you hear that water freezes at 32 degrees do you? No. So why get upset when you learn that girls love jerks. That’s the way it is. Give up on women and walk away.

  48. Ferris Bueller summed it up very well when talking about his friend:
    “Cameron has never been in love – at least, nobody’s ever been in love with him. If things don’t change for him, he’s gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she’s gonna treat him like shit, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won’t respect him, ’cause you can’t respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn’t work.”

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