A friend of mine called James recently asked me for some advice about a girl he likes, who happens to be his housemate. Maria – let’s call her that – is certainly very comely from the photographs he showed me, and by all accounts is pretty fond of him. Apparently they spend a lot of time talking, and she complains frequently about the errant behavior of her current boyfriend.
One night she came home from a club a little tipsy and started dancing sexily in the kitchen for him, and on another occasion came downstairs from her bedroom modeling the t-shirt he’d bought her for a Christmas present in just a tiny pair of shorts. James is certain that she is at least a little attracted to him.
Of course, he wants to get with her, but he is also concerned not to spoil their friendship, particularly as they live together and the fallout from any overt move he makes could at best be embarrassing, and at worst could make their living situation untenable.
What to advise here? Well, in the first place, if at all possible you should avoid getting into such a situation in the first place. It has been said that whenever you find yourself asking someone for guidance over what to do about one “special” girl, then you have already lost her. The reason is that you have probably already pedestalised her to an unhealthy degree without having made your move.
In all likelihood your opportunity – such as it was in the first place – has now been lost and you are languishing in the mists and fogs of the friendzone, trying to navigate its malodorous and septic seas with little hope of rescue. In the case of Maria, the situation is even worse, given that she has a boyfriend (albeit a fairly recent one who is based in another country).
To get a girl when you are on the back foot is almost impossible in itself –- to do so when her loyalties lie elsewhere, however tentatively, would be little short of miraculous.
All of that said, James has been getting IOIs from Maria, and wants to know what to do. Should he be a dick to her –- ignore her for a while? Should he play the long game by continuing with his current strategy of under-the-radar flirting and hope for the best? My advice is simple – the only option for James was to escalate while gaming other girls.
The only hope in a situation like this is to sexualize the interaction to a degree where the girl is obliged either to fold into your frame and proceed with a sexual relationship or to express her disinterest by rejecting you. Meanwhile, you should constantly be approaching other women to establish warm leads and to engender a sense of sexual abundance that will make you more immune to your target’s potential rejection.
If you have options then she will sense it, and this will trigger her sense of dread – she will realize that she might lose you, in other words, and this will make you perversely more attractive to her.
There is an old saying in game that is helpful to remember here – “make the ho say no.” Situations like the one between James and Maria crop up all the time. A guy will come into contact with a girl he likes – perhaps through his social circle, at college or at work – and they will hit it off. The girl will laugh at his jokes and enjoy spending time with him — they will become friends, in other words.
The girl, perhaps intuiting the guy’s underlying desire for a more sexually satisfying communion (and lets face it, she wouldn’t have to be Alan Turing to crack that one) will often throw out enough flirtatious crumbs to give him hope that “something” may happen at some unspecified future point. The guy, picking up on this and not wanting to scare her off by making a sexual advance, falls into her timetable and decides to wait it out.
This is fatal.
Such a situation as the one I’ve described works very well for the girl, who experiences the warm validation of an attentive friend. Unfortunately it works less well for the guy, who will inevitably become more frustrated the more time that passes and his desires remain unsated. As I’ve already suggested, this strategy embodies a one-way map down the tributary that leads directly to the friendzone.
You Impose The Timeline, Not Her
What you should aim to do instead is to make the sexual subtext of your interaction explicit as early as possible in each case – from the first meeting, if possible (although this can be more difficult if, say, your girl is from your social circle or is a work colleague). Nevertheless, what you need to do make your interest obvious boldly, unapologetically, and quickly. Remember, fortune favours the brave. Put yourself on the line: even though it feel intimidating if you’re new at it, you’re more likely to get the result you want.
You know the real reason that guys don’t always do this? It’s because they would rather coast on the validation they are already getting from the girl they’re interested in. We’ve all done it. A hot girl likes you and is prepared to hang out with you on breaks or over lunch. By not putting it on the line and letting her know you’re interested in her, you can both retain the pleasant feelings that go along with hanging out, while you overdose on the fantasy of what could happen.
Understand this though: both pleasant feelings of validation and fantasy are worthless in the binary world of pick-up where there are only two outcomes – you either get the girl, or you don’t. She is in no hurry to up the ante – you should be. It’s your job.
So next time you’re hanging out with that girl that you’ve secretly liked for ages, take her hand, look her straight in the eye and tell her you think she’s really cute. Just do it, and see what happens. She might well pull her hand away, look embarrassed and start mumbling something about how she sees you more as a friend. Good. Now you’ve got your answer and you can cross her off the list and move onto other prospects.
Alternatively, she might just be swayed by your boldness and express her mutual interest. You will never know until you try. Either way, if you have been gaming other girls simultaneously – which you should be – then her response will in any case be robbed of the import it might otherwise have.
Hope – false hope – is one of the worst states imaginable for a man. Do everything you can to avoid it. Be decisive. When you like a girl, take action quickly. Be flirtatious, witty and let her know how you feel. Do not be seduced into some long, drawn-out courtship which will likely not pay a dividend anyway.
Remember – she could, if she wanted to, have sex with you within five minutes of meeting you. Girls do it all the time. It is a fallacy to suppose that she needs months of “warming up” before intimacy is possible. Of course, I’m not saying you should demand sex on the first meeting, but some degree of reciprocity is more than possible.
Take your shot and let the chips fall where they may. If she rejects you then smile politely and move on. Above all, don’t be afraid that if you make your move you will lose her.
If that happens then you never really had her in the first place.
Want to find out more about how to attract hot women for relationships and sex? Then click here.
Read More: Even a Lame Approach is Better Than No Approach At All
I wouldn’t recommend getting involved with any girl a man is roommates with. Especially one already involved as he won’t be able to escape the fallout drama.
Yeah just get her to bring females over.
Good suggestion. She can be like a wingman or something if she has attractive friends.
It is like shitting where you eat. At least have a plan to move out in place before making any moves.
That works, too.
Its ok as long you don’t mind seeing her bringing other guys over to bang her. If that makes your shit flip, don’t start something. If you don’t care, or you anticipate somebody is going to be moving out in the next few months for their own reasons then you have nothing to lose. Probably could have been testing the waters all this time anyway. For example, when she was walking around the house wearing only the t-shirt he gave her, with nothing else on but panties, he could have said glad you like the shirt I gave you it looks hot on you.
Outside of circumstances where I was already planned to move out, I wouldn’t risk it.
He should have said it looks hot on you but better when you take it off.
If she’s a roommate, leave it as that, can be friends if she’s cool enough but nothing more.
Be friends with a woman….ho ho ho merry christmas!
I mean some women are just friend material, the rest of them suck or I fuck them.
I highly doubt a single woman wants you boo. You’re probably hideous beyond comparison or only good for your peen or money
Shut up, woman! You are not allowed to comment here!
I don’t understand the appeal of being friends with a female outside of using her to set you up with her female acquaintances. Nor do I think it is possible if there is an attraction.
Even if there is no attraction at all you just can´t get along with them because their brains operate on a different level. The emo level.
I don´t have any attraction to my mother or sister and still I can´t discuss anything serious with them.
Some women aren’t straight. The females I’m friends with are pretty much my wingmen when I go out or if they have attractive acquaintances. Most of my female friends tend to be that anyways. And some are just fuck buddies.
Exception is if they have hot female friends they can hook you up with.
“I don´t have any attraction to my mother or sister and still I can´t discuss anything serious with them.”
You too ?
I thought I was a sociopath !
Around them I always feel like a kindergarten teacher. “Put that cookie down!”
True. Why would you be “friends” with a girl you’re not shagging?
It’s possible, but there can be no attraction or any sort of wanting to be more than friends.
Unless she’s sexy. In which case you should shag her and then get separate living quarters.
i disagree……..she was begging him to make a move in that situation………and i know damn well she was disappointed he didn’t have the stones to do it…….it could have been the beginning of something pretty cool
I don’t know why anyone would room with a girl. That’s crazy.
Sometimes you may not have a choice. Rooming with a girl is better than living with your parents. My personal opinion is to hell with roommates in general.
I actually always preferred living with my parents when I had trouble affording a place to stay. Hell is “other” people so to speak.
It really depends on your parents, their attitude, and how big of a place they have.
Agreed. I’ve always thought the ‘don’t shit where you eat’ adage can be applied here. Perhaps to a looser extent compared to say, business or work related areas.
That’s how you approach and deal with rejection.
Haha, I respect that guy’s persistence!
While a scripted, canned video, the fundamentals are solid with what he’s teaching.
Be bold. Don’t give a fuck. Don’t get flustered, keep pushing to the hard no and when she walks away, smile and continue doing the awesome things you were doing.
Given as every man receives rejection at a 1000:1 ratio most of the time, and PUA’s are only slightly better at a 5% acceptance rate (give or take), this is a great lesson for how to do when you DO fail, which you WILL.
Fun video.
The one thing I would disagree with is the “look her straight in the eye and tell her you think she’s really cute.” This is 80% likely to make her back off short term, since you’ve forced her to confront the signals she’s putting out and either own up to them and be accountable (not a female strength), or deny/redirect them and then continue her IOI behavior later.
Most girls if they’re playing this kind of game want to create the “man is so overpowered by her, he just can’t resist.”, the fantasy that’s spawned the “50 Shades of Grey” type fem soft-porn. She also wants to be able to tell herself “something just happened!” rather than admit that she tried to attract your attention.
My advice would be look for the right situation, don’t say anything, and just kiss/kino her. This gives her the validation she’s looking for, without requiring any emotional commitment that reciprocating feelings would require. Plus, she already knows you think she’s cute, she can shut down a kiss as easy as she can the words and then you can still just walk
My advice would be look for the right situation, don’t say anything, and just kiss/kino her.
Perfectly cromulent advice.
Actually had to look that up, not being a Simpsons aficionado. Urban Dictionary indicates it means roughly spurious. Care to clarify why you disagree?
Never rely on the urban dictionary for 15 year old Simpson’s references.
Used in the original show, it was actually meant to indicate “legitimate”. It was told to a person who questioned the word “embiggens” as being perhaps fake, and the second toon answered “It’s a perfectly cromulent word” meaning “Hey, the word is cool”.
Ironically, I remember the statue with the word embiggens. Something like “a noble heart embiggens the smallest man.” IIRC
Somehow ‘cromulent’ didn’t make it to permanent storage
For a flatmate the solution is very simple… have a few drinks with her, while watching a bit of TV… ask for a cuddle…. cuddle, cuddle and the electricity will build over 4-5 minutes….. never under estimate the sexual arousal a female gets from close contact with a male….
ask for a cuddle
Ask for a cuddle? heh
Slight shit eating smile, wink, do the “come here” thing with your head, maybe tap your beside you like you’re calling a cat up on the couch. What is this “ask” thing you talk about, heh?
To be fair, maybe that’s what you have to do now and I’m out of the loop (quite likely). But ask for a cuddle? Damn skippy…
Cuddle will probably work, but just pulling it out…looking down with a slight look of surprise to see your own genitals…and then saying “what are we going to do about this” would be more fun.
Success is all in intonation.
This is all fine and dandy, but it assumes you are dealing with a rational female. Two words which do not typically go hand-in-hand.
Yeah some women are exceptions.
nope
I meant there are only very few rational females in this context.
What if she’s a dick and you just don’t care?
Men and Women cannot be friends. The problem is multifaceted. First, women can’t form bonds. They are far too narcissistic. “Friend” means something entirely different for a woman…kind of like what the word “resource” means for a man.
Second, even if women were capable of friendship the line would be drawn at men. Where sexual attraction exists there can be no friendship and if the woman is fat or ugly and so no sexual attraction exists then she is not friend material either as low quality friends only lower your own quality.
Yep.
Learned it the hard way.
It’s really the only way to learn. If you were just warned off you would not really *know*
Well if I had learned about this site before, it would have avoided me a lot of humiliations.
May only work for a few people but you’re right about the majority.
nope. universal. Women are incapable of being friends with anyone.
Because they stab each other in the back and cause drama. I have two sisters and this I know.
A female friend does not give you what you want from a female or from a friend. I speak from experience. I had one-itis for about 5 years. The woman married another man and then talked to me about her man. Then after complaining about her husband to me, he was still the one getting the wife benefits from her that I wanted. I had the validation of a woman I was attracted to giving me attention, but it was hollow because it was less than what I desired. When I stopped being her shoulder to cry on, the “friendship” shriveled up. Friends do not just disappear when they are not actively receiving something from you.
That’s the part of any “relationship” that many beta males need to understand. These type of women will fuck another man while still letting the beta be the “girlfriend” in the situation. She’ll gladly cry on the beta’s shoulder while giving it up to another man (alpha or other)….they’ll have the best of both worlds.
Men need to read and realize these women are nothing but fucking leeches. They will pour all of their emotional bullshit out right there and then happily run back to the other cock for a little sex time.
Any men in these types of relationships need to stop this shit, pronto. You’re not going to get anything….you’re the “girlfriend”, get it? It’s like they have a gay friend who will be there to gossip, shop, etc….don’t be that gay friend.
If she’s not interested in you (as a man and for sex) then tell here your not interested in being her fucking “girlfriend”. That’s why she has girlfriends in the first place.
Exactly. You could just as easily listen to her bullshit about other men during pillow-talk. The afterglow makes it a lot easier to handle.
I agree that’s a red pill lesson men need to to learn, if you’re not banging her or her or getting some benifet from her she’s just using you. This g is thirst among men is so strong nowadays that having a female be nice to them is a big deal.
Agree. Our job (the men here at ROK) is to try to bring these men around to seeing what’s really going on. It sucks, it’s going to be a lot of hard work but only men are up to this task.
That’s why equality can’t truly exists…it’s not a job for women.
Yep it’s hard for some men too see so much of their world view or what they have been taught is a lie, but it needs to happen. I try to introduce my friends to red pill concepts, most of them arn’t ready to fully take the plunge but they’re on their way. Some unfortunately are so blue pill I’ve given up.
I have tried too, and failed so far. Even as I see some of them already married, and with a mortgage. “Hopefully” for them, their wives did not ride the cock carousel, so instead of a bitter divorce, they will have a boring, sexless routine. I wish I could help them.
A couple of guys I know are so blue pill it’s a waste of time me trying to turn them red pill. Fortunately most of my friends are already red pill in their outlook but don’t a actually know what the manosphere or what red/blue pill is, these are the friends I’m working on. What annoys me are the guys who act red pill but are blue pill to the core.
BINGO!
When reading the comments on this site, I start out annoyed by the generalizations of women, the name calling, the mentality that women’s worth lies only in their attractiveness or ability to reproduce….. And then that irritation fades and I just end up feeling very sad for you all.
You’ve really never had a female friend that was a true friend, or decent person? To the point that you believe that out of ~3 billion women worldwide, none are capable of friendship??
My god, it’s sadder than Russian literature.
Most of the sentences were grammatically correct. The criticisms were a bit canned and the role of pseudo-psychologist has been over done to the point of cliché by many others before you. Interesting portrait picture used for the account, but nothing too special. Just enough insults and feigned pity while not delving into outright sneering ad hominem.
All in all I’d give it a 3/10. Others may differ.
I’m not oblivious to your snark or condescension, and there was no armchair diagnosis from me…. Just general observation. People attain their worldview from a variety of sources, but a significant source is generally their personal experience. The insistence that women are incapable of loyalty or reciprocity in a friendship leads me to believe the comment originated from personal anecdotes.
No ad hominem or any other logical fallacies at play…. No pity either. More like… empathy? I have a great father, husband, brothers-in-law, male cousins and am raising a son, so I genuinely feel sympathy for people who can’t/don’t have good relationships with their opposite gender.
Perhaps the reason my criticisms seemed stale, is because you’ve heard them all before? Things that are pointed out often can come across as canned – nevertheless they were not the main point of my comment.
Ps> 3/10 is very low. I haven’t been in college for some time, but anything below an “A” is just not an acceptable grade in my book.
Pps> My picture was taken with a dashing Pirate statue in a small fishing/tourist town…. He, sadly, is not one of my male friends. But still man, a PIRATE??? He alone should have bumped that 3/10 to a 4.5/10. From what I’ve read, Pirates were totally alphas 🙂
3/10 is very low. I haven’t been in college for some time, but anything below an “A” is just not an acceptable grade in my book.
Life never gives 100% A’s to anybody. Welcome to reality, sweety. I’m a fair man, you need to bring more than “sympathy” in the form of “Seems like you’re not used to women” to rate higher. Be original, find some new criticism to level that hasn’t been boilerplated by Jezebel and other feminist strongholds for years now, and the grade may go higher.
Pps> My picture was taken with a dashing Pirate statue in a small fishing/tourist town…. He, sadly, is not one of my male friends. But still man, a PIRATE??? He alone should have bumped that 3/10 to a 4.5/10. From what I’ve read, Pirates were totally alphas
I’m enthralled.
Historical pirates were more MGTOW than alphas, though there was overlap between the two groups. Disney Pirates on the other hand, yeah, all lady’s men without question, who all eventually conform to the will of the sweet little flower who captures his heart. Unlike real pirates.
Perhaps the reason my criticisms seemed stale, is because you’ve heard them all before?
All the time. From every corner of culture, not just the internet. They are the standard retort(s) to any criticism of feminism or the feminine imperative writ across our culture. It’s similar to the “Capitalist pig!” label that the Soviets would apply to anybody who even pretend to criticize the slightest policy statement by the dictator in charge at the time.
Well, once again, my point was not critique. I observe the majority of the authors and commenters alike call women names, generalize, etc. I am not a huge fan of third wave feminism, (although I’m grateful for 1&2 wave as I do enjoy my voting rights and being able to stop having babies after my second child was born) so my viewpoints do not come from Jezebel or any modern feminist outlet. I also observe a healthy helping of anti-Semitic and other racial remarks along with a dash of conspiracy theory by several commenters…. But that was not pertinent to the male/female friendship aspect of the conversation. Point being: I read the site, have read it for about 8 months, and in doing so have noticed the aforementioned comments/trends.
Disney pirates? Leave it to a Capitalist Pig to bring up Disney 🙂
I am a bigger fan of historical pirates, although I did enjoy the Caribbean movie franchise. (Side note, I lived in South Carolina for a time and visited the dungeon that held “The Gentleman Pirate” Stede Bonnet. He was once Blackbeard’s right hand man, until injury prevented him from continuing in his looting ways. Very cool dungeon.)
Btw, small point of contention: I never said that it “seems like you’re not used to women” …. Rather that I found it sad that the women you’ve been around left such an inaccurate impression of ALL women.
Btw, small point of contention: I never said that it “seems like you’re not used to women” …. Rather that I found it sad that the women you’ve been around left such an inaccurate impression of ALL women.
A distinction without a difference. If you need then, you’ve expressed a version of NAWALT. If that helps rectify this conversation, so be it.
I also observe a healthy helping of anti-Semitic and other racial remarks along with a dash of conspiracy theory by several commenters….
That’s good and healthy then, free debate should exclude no thoughts or ideas, and let the marketplace decide which are good and which are bad. I tremble to think of an internet sanitized of free exchange of ideas, even foul ones.
Don’t you?
So correct the impression and show us awesome you are.
In this instance the claim was made that ALL women are incapable of true friendship, so yeah, I’m totally fine with NAWALT being used here.
Internet censorship? Perish the thought. *shudder
I mentioned the streak of racism more in a “birds of a feather” way…. As in: I am not surprised that individuals who have negative opinions about all females also have negative opinions about all Jews, gays, etc.
I would, but I already have a friend roster FULL of smug frogs, and no offense, but you all are high maintenance.
(Btw, I never claimed to be awesome myself, but I totally know some awesome females who make awesome friends!)
Who said I wanted to be your friend?
See, this why men and women can’t be friends. You inject yourselves and thus drama in our lives. We don’t need drama. We don’t need your friendship. We don’t need your ideas nor your emotional baggage. We don’t want attention and validation whores.
You are Exhibit A. You are disruptive. This why friendship is not possible.
I think we fed you enough. Please go be disruptive somewhere else.
Nobody cares what you think/feel. Attention whore elsewhere.
Why are you reading the site for 8 months if it just annoys, irritates or saddens you? Are you a masochist?
And why do you care if we think women make good friends or not? Are you trying to make friends on here, with us?
Lol. Sure thing sugar.
What’s all this noise?
She ain’t that bad, it seems…
Beat it, attention whore.
This isn’t a woman’s study group…it’s a place where men group to share comments, questions, ideas, stories (many horror stories involving women), history, literature, etc….
You and your kind are not welcome here. The latest round of “feminism” has already ruined the other “men only” spaces that were once available to men….but not here, sweetie, not this one.
The door is —————————->
None are capable of friendship as a man defines it – No. And we aren’t talking about 3 billion women. We are talking about women to whom we are attracted too which is a very tiny subset of the 3 billion number. Attraction from a male is sensed by females and that skews the “friendship” to one of resource gathering just like attraction from a female skews us to one of “get her in bed”. That’s life and if you’ve a problem with might I suggest the Moon, Mars, or one of the other planets where you can forget all about nature as there isn’t any there.
Russian literature? Funny you should say that: http://www.returnofkings.com/34204/anna-karenina-is-one-of-the-earliest-examples-of-red-pill-truth
Yes, I remember the article; I enjoyed reading it. I didn’t completely agree with the conclusions drawn, but it was an interesting analysis…one that I hadn’t seen before.
You honestly think anybody here gives a shit whether or not you agree with it?
Think of it this way. Men and women have very different ideas of friendships when it comes to the opposite sex.
There is a reason men are more business like in conversation with each other and women will tend to disclose personal details to each other. (Gossip, but without the negative connotation.)
When the friendship is between men and women, sex is always the elephant in the room.
I have 2 close female friends. One of them still wants to date me (ive told her it would never happen and the other I have no interest in sleeping with.)
If that’s out of the way, there is often just not enough reciprocation for a man to be able to engage in more the kind of discourse that a woman would get with her own female friends.
There’s a lot more to it and there are many communication studies which expand in great detail this notion.
I agree with you…. You actually DO have female friendships, which is great, even if it’s tricky. Before I was married, I had many male friends, but only three that were genuinely close to me. One of those ended because we tried dating and ruined the friendship, and the others are still there – although not close because I don’t think its respectful to my husband or wise to have male friends with whom I have one-on-one time with.
My comment was caused by the men talking about women being incapable of friendship, and we aren’t!
My lasting make friendships were based on shared experiences, (college friends) or shared interests, (snowboarding buddies) not gossip, so I think you have a point re: discourse.
(Btw, I appreciate the civil tone of your comment, it’s a nice break from being called an “attention whore”)
Why would anyone want to be friends with a narcissistic, over opinionated, bitchy, entitled, emotional talking vagina?
Female do not think about men when they are gone, so they cannot be friends.
Thanks mate great article. I’ve made this mistake too many times.Pathetic.
Good article again. Not sure I agree entirely with regards to the situation where you’re living with the woman, but in general, I like the “push it and get your answer quickly one way or another” idea.
You really should not live with a woman you’re attracted to if you’re not in a relationship. It’s going to cause unnecessary hardship one way or another. You’ll spend time and energy on things that cannot lead anywhere if you do not push the situation to getting what you want from her. You’ll have less to use for woman who are fair game, and the roommate will distract you from what you could accomplish.
You see we need to be in robotics and build Robbie the Robot replicas and keep them with us so they can wave their arms and shout “Danger, Will Robinson”.
Because reading about this situation with “Maria” my internal Robbie is doing that.
The subject in this case needs to get out of the house and learn game and not shit his own bed. Make “Maria” drool in the meantime and when our subject brings a girl home on occasion “Maria” might create some jealous tension that, if played right, would work into our subjects hands.
If he knew game.
One rule I follow: If it appears the pussy is falling into your lap, it’s probably a trap.
Great article. As always, Troy Francis spitting some of the best wisdom on ROK. I do think that when you’re living with the girl, it might be a bit of a stretch, especially if you don’t have a backup plan, but in other cases like this, it pays to have a move. I once had a girl in my friend group who I liked, and when I made a move, she rejected me, saying that “we’re friends, blah blah blah”. I was upset for an hour, and then moved on. No hard feelings at all. She’s actually hooked me up with a few of her friends since.
It happens.
I honestly cannot imagine voluntarily taking on a pretty girl as a platonic roommate. It’s the worst of all worlds, you get to be her emotional tampon even if you could give a fuck what she says (she’s going to prattle on to you whether you listen or not), and you don’t get sex. Fuck that. Shack up with some friends or something.
She is bitching to him about the current boyfriend. In my book that’s a huge red flag. Add that to the crappy situation … No thanks. There are lots of other women out there.
Never listen to a woman bitch about her man. Make it absolutely clear she needs to be available to you for you to be available to her. She wants emotions and you want sex. Don’t give away your time.
Yeah, if she bitches to you about her boyfriend’s behavior, it’s because she’s trolling for sympathy, and therefore doesn’t expect you to be able to turn her on in the same way.
A man should not fear losing what he has with a woman he’s not in a relationship. Such action is a self-imposed shackle that drains away a man’s sexual energy.
You want something for what you give. Your time is valuable, so do not waste it on a woman you can never be more than “just friends” with. A woman’s friendship is near-worthless because she will never give you what men will give their friends, and she’s also not giving you what only a woman can. A female friend’s validation will never feel as worthwhile as the validation from a girlfriend, a wife, or yourself.
A man should not fear losing what he has with a woman he’s not in a relationship.
True, but I’d extend that further. A man should not fear losing what he has with a woman with whom he’s in a relationship. If you start to fear her ability to take your kids and more than half of your income and assets, she’ll smell it like a shark smells blood in the water. Remain indifferent to losing her, even when the consequences are so dire.
In the end, it’s only stuff, right?
I would not be so cavalier with my own children (if I had any) internally, but you’re correct that your woman should never know that you fear her actions. Your fear of what she could do is her only real power.
I didn’t mean kids with “stuff”, should have been a bit more clear. But yes, you never let on that you care about what power the law gives her, and further, if you keep her in a state where she understands completely that you could be out the door and with four new women by the end of the week (soft dread I think it’s called), it’s an effective deterrent. In summary, you just can’t fear that she’ll leave no matter *what*.
This is Game 101: “He who hesitates loses.” We were all raised on the slogan “The best things come to those who wait.” This is true of a lot of things but pussy aint’ one of ’em. Men who tell themselves this when pursuing a woman intuitively know this to be false. It’s male hamstering at its worst.
Pussy best rewards the first man to break the ribbon at the finish line.
Nope, waiting will get you friendzoned when she finds new dick. Strike when the iron is hot
This is a half-truth: only the man who hesitates when the woman is giving him IOI’s or “buying signals” loses. A woman will only do this for so long before she decides that you either have no balls, are gay or are simply just not attracted to her.
But the man who rushes in when the woman is not interested and/or flashing IOD’s also loses—-he get’s slapped with a sexual harassment charge.
Or worse.
Why? Why? Why in the fuck would you ever date a girl under these conditions?!
I get it, he likes her.
I wish I had a nickel for every girl I’ve liked at the beginning only to find out a short while later that I couldn’t fucking stand to be around them. How many women do you have to date before you realize the odds are this will happen for almost all women?
How many girls do you have to date before you realize that the woman you’re flirting with will metamorphose into a completely different creature the second your cock touches any part of her body? Women think it entitles them to administer an entirely different level of control over you and all your shit – because now it becomes hers.
They all look good in the beginning, when they’re on their best behavior to sell you on the idea that they’re a good catch. But when this woman is sleeping in your bed rather than behind a closed door in another room, hanging in your space rather than trying to give it to you and scheduling her comings and goings to minimize contact, and shitting in your toilet, with the door open, you will then get to know this girl for real, and the odds are that you won’t like what you see, which you should know if you have ever dated anyone before.
Do not assume that just because she shares an apartment with you, and occasionally you run into each other in the kitchen and chat politely for 15 minutes over toast in the morning that you know the first fucking thing about this woman.
She is insinuating that she wants to fuck you while she has a boyfriend!!! This is a huge red flag that she’s a disloyal whore who is only part way into her carousel ride and still has a huge stack of quarters in her pocket!!
For all you really know, she could be paying her rent by working as a call girl, and lying to you about it because she wants you to be the beta fool that wifes her up. On a less dramatic note, she could be a complete controlling bitch with no friends (which is why you have never met any) who acts nice to you now because she’s developed a lengthy wish/check list of things that she’s going to work to change about you (translation – nag and berate you endlessly) once she gets her filthy rat claws around your balls.
Realizing that you are trapped in this situation a month later would be a fucking nightmare.
If you are really interested in this girl, move out, then game her, unless it’s your place in which case you tell her to move out and then game her. But it is an absolute rule that you should never start fucking a girl in a situation like this. If you do, you are a moron that deserves what is coming to you.
She is insinuating that she wants to fuck you while she has a boyfriend!!! This is a huge red flag that she’s a disloyal whore who is only part way into her carousel ride and still has a huge stack of quarters in her pocket!!
Hey, just about every hot girl out there has a boyfriend, and those who don’t will have one tomorrow. If you’re waiting around for an unattached hot girl, be prepared to wait a long time.
I don’t disagree, but I don’t see how that should make it any more appealing to date one of these skanks.
“The girl, perhaps intuiting the guy’s underlying desire for a more
sexually satisfying communion (and lets face it, she wouldn’t have to be
Alan Turing to crack that one) will often throw out enough flirtatious
crumbs to give him hope that “something” may happen at some unspecified
future point. The guy, picking up on this and not wanting to scare her
off by making a sexual advance, falls into her timetable and decides to
wait it out.
This is fatal.”
This must be what happened to me.
So the unexperienced male is not the only one at fault when falling into friendzone-hell ?
She’s doing what women have always done. The man who falls for it without asking for what he really wants is a sucker.
No. Generally, it takes place in teenagehood. And the young male says something dumb like “i love you”. So he’s asking what he wants, and the girl shut down nicely the unexperienced boy with a friendship proposition, before to go hump an older guy with a motorbike.
Because of the unexperience of the male, that kind of friendzone can last forever.
Women learn how to manipulate and act like attention whores in front guys starting at puberty.
Men learn how to manipulate and act like important nobodies in front of men and women.
Nope. Most women suck and you are one of them. Do everyone in this site a favor and please go to Jezebel or somewhere where you can rant about how much you think men manipulate women. Quit trolling around here!
If you think you’re going too far, you’re not. I’m amaze myself sometimes with how much I can get away with saying in public.
Nailed it. Being too bold is bound to get more of a positive response than being too timid. And if it doesn’t, who gives a fuck, it will eventually whereas being too timid will *always* yield failure.
Dudes that I hang with are always shocked at how far I push interactions with women during our meetups. Sure, I’m married, but I still enjoy teasing and tempting women. Was doing a motorcycle ride charity event, we end up at the outdoor bar, and the auction proceeds. They had an extremely attractive extremely hot 21-ish year old gal walking around showing the items to the crowd (figure 70-100 people, give or take), who normally works at the place so she had no actual financial stake in anything. She walked past us with a t-shirt and I stopped her with a “come her” finger movement and said “Hey sweetie, model that for me”. She drapes it over her front and does a bit of a pirouette while smiling (nice firm B cup titties, slender waist, firm ass). “Hmm….not too bad, now turn around again” and she turns and just stands there looking over her shoulder at me smiling with her ass prominently displayed (she clearly understood what I was looking at). “Turn back around now darlin’” and she does. “That’s fine sweety, you can go now” and she gives me a huge obvious seductive wink and walks away, then shoots doey eyed stares at me the rest of the auction.
Basically stopped her near run around the room, and she focused on me entirely for a long while and seemed willing to do so even with absurd requests (how the fuck could I see the shirt if I told her to turn around such that I could only see her fine ass?). The other guys at the table were laughing and giving me “Damn dude, you’re so fuckin’ forward, what the hell, she would have flipped me off and went away”.
To hell with being meek, heh.
I’ve done that at the bar: instead of going over to some hottie, I make the “come here” gesture with my index finger. My guy friends are amazed every time it works. If I get her number, great. If not, plenty more where she came from. I became much more successful with women once I started interacting with them more to amuse myself than to quench the thirst.
Summoning a woman nearly always works, and yep, it shocks and amazing other men. I find it funny that they’re shocked, especially some of my biker buddies. To be fair most of them have old ladies with them so they couldn’t get by with it if they had to, and are decades removed from having to care about it so this is all “new, bright, shiny, interesting!” to them.
I became much more successful with women once I started interacting with them more to amuse myself than to quench the thirst.
Perfect way to approach the entire subject of women, kudos on figuring out what eludes most men.
One time I summoned a girl in front of my friends. I said, “Hey. You probably hear this from strangers at the bar. But I just wanted to say…” and I leaned in to whisper in her ear but still loud enough for others to hear, “… you look all right, I guess.” A good laugh was had by all, including her. I got the number.
and you can always say “If I made you come with one finger, imagine what else I could do!”
That’s pretty good actually, heh.
Yes, I think that’s the premise of RSD, especially Tyler who seems fond of getting two random girls kissing each other in nightclubs… can be done…. just push the envelope….look at what girls gone wild did…. a bit of balls and a handy cam goes a long way….
This subject is not even up for discussion. There’s no good ending for this. Endings:
A. They get together, they fuck, they fight, he has to move out.
B. They just fuck, she’s a slut that’ll fuck her current boyfriend as well, behind his back.
C. He’ll be gaming her correctly, pushing the perfect buttons to get the muff without the responsability of a relationship, but that doesn’t work in real life as it is said that ,,the pussy you don’t pay for in this life, you get to EAT in the next” because they live together.
Anyway, what kind of girl would move in with a guy? That’s a red flag right there. I would push to keep it clean, and once he finds another place to live to start moves on her and not before.
It happens a lot if there is a sexual attraction involved. I think the only scenario where the following wouldn’t happen is if the girl he’s rooming with is fat and/or ugly or an ugly butch lesbian. I’ve roomed with some unattractive girls and nothing sexual happened, just had to look for a random roommate so I could get my bills paid. They were cool to hang to with though because they had hotter friends.
He bought her a t-shirt for Christmas….. instant friend zone….womble…..black lacey lingerie…..G-string, suspenders, stockings, matching bra….get in there…. she should have been wearing that when she was dancing….
I used to be the timid, pedestalising prick…. believed in the innate goodness of people. Oh how time and experience have been the wake up call. My father is a good guy but his father died young and I do think he hadn’t much experience with women…. his advice to me about women? You can’t go around jumping in and out of bed with every woman you meet. True but I’ve a pretty good notch count at this stage and still single in my early forties. Dodged a few bullets as I have a nice asset base built up and not going to jeopardise it for any old slapper that waltzes along.
I have learned women respect a man that is honest about his intentions. Was watching a programme about Barry Sheen the other night. He got a model round his place that wanted to be photographed in his leathers. She was married at the time. As the shoot progressed he told her in no uncertain terms that he was going to get into her pants. He did, she got divorced, married Sheen and was with him until he died…..
Nuff said….
SAS
It would be disastrous for James to sexually pursue Maria because he has to live with the consequences. If she rebukes him then the living situation becomes super-awkward. If she gets with him, he has to deal with the BF, and now she has leverage on him (“oh, could you cover my rent this month honey? Thanks!”).
James needs to see his relationship with Maria as strictly contractual, as in their rental agreement. He should religiously avoid making their relationship anything more complicated than roommates. It will take some resolve on his part to maintain a roommate-only relationship because Maria, being female, will push for more.
Don’t shit where you eat.
not necessarily. I’ve nailed at least one chick wherever I’ve worked. I did not send any naughty emails and I kept any texts the girl would send me. I had a great time and there was never any negative consequences.
Agree. I got totally flamed by commentators when I wrote an article about how to get laid at work,but I do think if you’re discreet and uphold strict boundaries it’s not so much of a problem as people seem to think
Great, well articulated article, man. Too many men (newbies especially) hesitate with having to eat that ‘moment of truth’ time bullet.
it’s one of the easiest spots to game if you get the IOIs and the flirtatious vibes. After that, it’s all about setting up a date. I even got lunch time blowjobs occasionally.
“You impose the timeline, not her”
This is especially pertinent to texting-hell that I have experienced where I get a # through cold approach then try to get the girl to meet up but she drags it along forever by haphazardly responding to texts here and there to keep me on the hook but never agreeing to meet up. I have learned that after some patience, it’s best to throw a non-needy hail mary and if she doesn’t agree to meet then erase the number and move on.
Not with a roommate. To close for comfort. The advice works well for the school setting. For instance, I remember a situation when I was in college and a particular girl kept looking at me in class. She would keep looking at me and eventually she would strike up conversation and invited me to a few events. I went to some of the events which were actually groups of people meeting for drinks and the like. I decided early in the exercise that I had to test her to make sure she what she was about. I invited her to my place for dinner. She accepted but then later cancelled saying that she was looking to “go out” for dinner. I kept it cordial and said no problem maybe some other time. We never talked after that. I was quite happy because I was tired of her games. I wanted to know if she was trying sleep with me or friend zone me. Once she realized I was not willing to be friend zoned, she left me alone. It took plenty of weight off of my back because I really was not too interested in the social events she was inviting me to.
Why would any guy in their right mind room with a woman? That just has bad news written all over it.
I wonder if the law then entitles her to financial support since they are technically “co-habitating” even though they aren’t even in a relationship.
Bet you it has happened before.
In Australia it does.
I’d fuck her. Roommate or not. If she was cute, there was mutual attraction, I’d go for it. If it got fucked up, I’d just move.
“ I decided early in the exercise that I had to test her to make sure she what she was about. ”
This is a great point. I’m going to remember this.
A little off topic but what is all this ass eating fetish about now? Any of u guys do this? WTF
I dated a Guatemalan chic with a tight small beautiful ass. I stuck my tongue in her bunghole. It gave me a raging hard on while 69’ing.
what about the shit taste smell, no visuals at least in your head? did you get sick? I dated a total whore who had an ass fetish but i wouldnt do it, she offered for me but never did it, but would really wash my ass crack in the shower, freak whore! just got me wondering if that was the norm now, seems society is getting nastier.
If she’s recently had a decent shower there’s no shit smell or taste. Just saying.
no shit taste, that girl is one of the cleanest women I have ever met.
Not feeling it. Unless she’s really hot & clean
something about a little tongue in a sensitvie asshole on a tight little ass….my goodness..it’s erotic….
Hell no.
well this Armenian says…HELL YES ! 🙂
F.U.C.K. N.O.
GREAT advice here.
I had a first date with a girl on NYE. I was told that day by a friend that she liked me, so we made some plans for later that evening. She is 22, we had never flirted at all, or even really talked much before. After a few hours, without any alcohol, I was rubbing her pussy through her panties in my car before midnight. This shocked me at how far you can push things. Now a first date bang was out of the question here, but clearly it will happen within a couple of followups.
Forget “treating women like a lady”. Unless you know you are dealing with a virgin that you have intentions of marrying (a unicorn) you must escalate. There’s no telling how many missed opportunities I gave up in the past by never pushing things as far as they can go. And the ones who let me go the farthest were almost always the ones I would least expect–ie the church girl etc.
why should we worry about game, IOIs, and escalation, when the unicorn Eastern European women and perfect angels of Moscow, Russia fall into our laps, madly in love with us when we arrive at Sheremetyevo airport?
Well, it’s not quite that easy . . !
Incidentally, I nearly got beaten up by a seven-foot bouncer in Moscow once when he caught me with a girl in the bathroom of his club! She was hot though . . .
I’ve been there plenty of times and I speak a little Russian. I’ve seen the same types of sluts there than I do in Dallas, Texas. I’ll say this 100 times, Russian women will love you for your wallet not your penis. If all you did was have a little fun and some hanky panky with the Russian flavor, then I’m all for it, but a lot of these guys think the Russian women make perfect wives and actually love them. I’ve had 50 year old guys who met their 25 year old “mail order brides” only twice come running to me, telling me that these women are in love with them.
Its funny, but I have never worried about ruining “our friendship”. I think that once you are in a “friendship” you have already messed things up. Frankly, when I meet a girl, if I’m interested I ask her out as soon as possible. And furthermore, I have no interest in being friends with a girl unless we are shagging.
Yep – agree with all the above.
I mean, look – I’m ‘friends’ with girls at work and in my social circle. I have a laugh with them and it’s cool. But I don’t have any ‘deep and meaningful’ friendships with women at this point. Not because I hate them or anything, more just because I feel it’s important that a man’s core group of friends are men.
Always go for it. Don’t even think. If I’m touching a girl and kissing, I immediately put her hand on my gigantic monkey boner. Things escalate pretty quickly after that, or not at all. Either way, you will know. Forget telling her she’s cute, show her what she could have 😉
I don’t know who is viewing what for articles but I wanna ask this question on here too:
How do you get RID of sexual tension with a chick(s)?
There is a chick at work who I want to fuck, but know that I could get fucked with harassment charges and get fired. I have fucked a few chicks at this job in the past and I’m at the age where I want to keep work place stuff strictly business. I know there are plenty of chicks outside of work where I don’t have to risk my career, but sometimes I get the urge?
How do you get RID of sexual tension with a chick(s)?
I want to keep this as a reference whenever I know my dick will get me into trouble.
why do you think you would get fired? if she wants to fuck you, there should never be any issues. I’ve screwed girls at work and there never has been any repercussions.
Bitches man. Can’t trust ’em. That’s why. I don’t bother with flight attendants at work for the same reasons Dom speaks of.
I have too much to lose at work. I’m not going to fuck it up for pussy I could just as easily get outside of work & not have to worry about the HR harpies.
as long as the sex is consensual, there should be no issues. Hold onto any proof; i.e. texts, phone records, etc.
Thanks for the article. This is taking basic ideas I had seen/heard/thought about and forming them into a useful mindset and rules of thumb/guidelines to use.
You’ve given me quite a bit to think about & do.
Can heterosexual men and women ever be “just friends”? Of course there is the odd exception, but in general I don’t think so, we don’t need their drama/emotional baggage. And the taboo on casual sex is a relic from the Victorian era – a more based on prudishness and not on fundamental biological drives. More men, these days, are taking advantage of dating websites such as http://www.tempted.com & http://www.ashleymadison.com to satisfy their sex drive.
the reason I have not escalated in the past is because my parents taught me to be polite and live with a code of morality and kindness; but these days, with modern day woman……
Getting into it with your housemate is the dumbest thing you can do. Itl be fun for the first two months and then after that you will hate her. Everything she does will annoy the shit out of you and breaking it off with her while your still living there will cause more stupid drama than any man wants in their life. That being said, this article completely overcomplicates things. You want to game this bitch? Start by distancing yourself for about two weeks, spend the time to go out and find another girl, take her back to your place and let your roomy see you with her, then fuck the shit out of her and be as loud as possible when you do it so that slutty little nympho in the next room will hear you. Then act like nothing happened the next morning. BAM instant attraction, bitches want what they can’t have and now you’ve just killed two pussies with one stone. Congratulations, now its time to move out!
Move out my ass.
She’ll be so desperate for the D that you can get her to do a threesome. 🙂
Take advantage son.
Sales 101
Just fuck the girl, that’s what she wants. I do NOT understand guys turning down pussy. Friends-shmends. There is no such thing as a too-sensitive pussy, except when the pussy is married-to-a-guy-you-know pussy.
If you have known a girl for a while and have’t established a sexual nature to your relationship, it’s over. You need to establish attraction almost immediately with a girl or forget it.