I have experienced countless men struggle with women and relationships in general. It took some growing up, experiencing interactions, and reading personal accounts from the manosphere to give me a clearer insight on the intentions of fellow men, as well as point out the types of men who thrive and/or struggle.
People keep saying the phrase “nice guys finish last,” but is that entirely true? Being a nice guy and whether he finishes last is based on context. Perhaps we should take a better look at what we mean by “nice guy,” and depending who he is can help or hinder his progression in attracting women and other relations. Here are two scenarios and outcomes that will allow you to differentiate one type of nice guy over the other.
Nice Guy #1
This type is the traditionally nice guy: respectful, considerate, positive and friendly guy who is attentive to every one’s needs before his own. He goes out of his way to please everyone. Even if he has been stressed out all week with work, relationships or just himself, he makes sure that he appeases his girlfriend with roses delivered to her job, or calls and texts incessantly to say “I love you.” He frees up his gym time, massage and hapkido sessions to go party with acquaintances, who he labels as “close friends,” even though the group has not contacted him in months, hanging exclusively with each other.
This guy is an amazing worker, having excellent reports from clients and work superiors. He is highly intelligent and wise, well-dressed and groomed and knows the ins-and-outs of his company, making him a very valuable and respected employee. His immediate boss, however, does not think so, and most of it stems through jealousy. This guy’s boss finds everything in his willpower to keep this guy from moving up the ladder. He also gives him multiple assignments, leaving him to work late nights and weekends. This guy could go up the chain of command to report his boss and demand a raise, but he is worried about what that might do to his career. So this guy continues to be a “Yes man”, kneeling in fear and submission towards each request. A typical dialogue follows:
“What is wrong with you? I called/texted you 30 minutes ago. Why didn’t you pick up the phone!? You’re such a dumb fuck! Geez you make me angry!” irritably states his friends/employer/significant other.
To girlfriend: “I am so sorry! I apologize! I will make sure to always have my phone around me. Do you need me to be close to home today, babe?”
To boss: “Do you want me to stay late at the office tonight? Should I be on call in case you need something?” he inquires to his boss.
Because people are used to him and his selfless ways, they rely on him, so even at the slightest lack of servitude, the tiniest ounce of inattention toward their needs, his friends, family and employees ridicule and criticize his behavior, which reinforce this guy to care highly of their expectations of him.
Nice Guy #2
The second type is the guy who is kind, respectful, considerate, positive, social and attentive to everyone AFTER his needs are met. He normally cares about his health and happiness as his first priority. He makes sure he grabs a full nights rest, hits the gym, eats nutritiously, reads, meditates, attends his massage sessions, etc. His girlfriend gets angry because she has not seen him much this whole week. His mother worries about why he has not called to check-in within the past month, his close friends and acquaintances are texting and leaving him voicemails like “What the fuck, dude!? We have been texting you all day/week/month and I haven’t heard anything from you. Where have you been!?”
None of these comments bother him, because he knows he deserves what he has been doing for himself, and will get back to these people whenever he is available. “Yeah, they can all wait until I am done with what I need to do first.”
This guy does a checklist for himself: “Did I take care of myself first? Check. Then I can go and help xyz person(s) to do xyz thing(s). Did I take care of what I needed to do for myself today or at this moment? No. Then I cannot help xyz person(s) to do xyz thing(s).”
If his girlfriend nags, he believes to himself, “How dare her even think this way!? I am great and she knows it! She needs to shut up, and wait until I am finished with what I have to do!” If his boys always try to make him pick up the bar tab, he asserts himself by telling them, “No, fuck that, I did that last time! Either all of you are contributing to this bill, or I am paying my portion and going home!”
If he ate and rested well, meditated, completed a great workout session, or finished up his personal errands, he is ready to help out the next man, but he is his first priority.
Outcome for Nice Guy #1
This type of guy ultimately encounters issues such as depression, anxiety, neurosis, perhaps even psychosis. He is the guy who gets taken advantage by everyone. This guy appears to show the least masculinity; submissiveness being a clear indicator. He not only gets a lack of respect from others, but more importantly he does not respect himself.
Those from the manosphere would describe him as a beta boy. Women can’t really pinpoint or consciously describe his unattractive behavior but would plainly state to their girls, “He’s a nice guy, but I’m not interested,” what his employers would report are statements such as, “He is not a leader,” or “He does not possess strong qualities to move up the chain,” and those guys whom he calls “best friends” see him as a last resort when they need someone to pick up the bar tab or be the designated driver. On the inside he is disgusted with himself, as well as those on the outside of him.
Outcome for Nice Guy #2
The type of guy is ultimately happy and healthy. Not only do people respect him, but most importantly he respects himself. He is your classic definition of a “gentleman” because he is a positive person to all beings, but takes care of himself first and foremost. Because he puts his needs first, he gives off the vibes of “asshole,” “masculine,” or “alpha,” making him very attractive towards women and other people.
This type of nice guy is regarded by his work superiors as a “strong leader who gets the job done.” He is the calmer and level headed of the two types, assertive when he needs to be, and seems to have everyone swarming to him, whether it be sex, friendships or the go-to man at his company when shit hits the fan. On the inside he is content and pleased with himself, as well as those on the outside of him.
Conclusion
Gentlemen, it is okay to be a nice guy. What it comes down to is your health and happiness first, and by doing otherwise you are only attracting sickness and bad circumstances. A “bad boy” may be seen as the one who gets all, but when comparing the “bad boy” to “nice guy #2”, you will find that the guy who is nice yet puts his needs before anyone else is actually at the advantage.
When I say to be positive, polite, respectful, happy or considerate, I am talking about being positive and considerate for yourself first. Come up with a “me first” checklist, asking yourself, “Did I do xyz thing(s) for myself? If yes then I can proceed to help out the next man.” If the answer is “no” then that next man can wait until you are done with what you want to do.
Become well versed—read, meditate, exercise, travel, write and record a song, and learn about women and cultures. When you are positive to yourself first, you are increasing your mental and physical well-being, strengthening your immune system and brain. Be that nice guy to yourself primarily, and watch secondarily as good things happen for you, such as attracting women. Because being a nice guy does have its advantages. You just have to choose which TYPE of nice guy you want to be.
Read More: Why Nice Guys Exist In America
yeah, I can relate to nice guy number #2. Taking care of everyone before yourself won’t pay the bills.
Word!
Most guys that think they’re “nice guys” are really just insecure beta losers. Women don’t want an anime nerd. Women don’t want a sad, lonely pathetic fat neckbeard virgin. Women are attracted to self-confidence.
The work you’re looking for sir, is reliable. A man in which a woman can place her trust in, knowing that he won’t fail in life.
Ha ha. Women just love all those ‘reliable’ guys. They start crawling around nude, in heat, nearly panting, at the thought of a ‘reliable’ man, right? Women feel more emotion over the 2$ waste of throwing out a head of unused lettuce than when they throw out a ‘reliable’ man.
Damn right
I can’t figure out who’s trolling who at this point, me or you. Are you really advocating ‘reliability’ as a trait that men should shoot for in order to get the girls all sudsy downstairs?
Well, reliability cuts both ways; you can be a mule and carry her shit everywhere or you could be that shoulder that she cries on, which you should aim for.
And all this only works for LTRs
Well, okay man. You ought to keep coming here, reading articles.
Most people confuse nice with needy but on the flip side confuse being assertive with being cocky. Most people find both neediness and cockiness annoying.
In reality there are few truly selfless people
#1 Puts others before himself because he seeks and needs validation from others the halmark of neediness.
Men often don’t understand that women are not attracted to morals. It doesn’t matter if you are the nicest guy on Earth or a serial killer. You can be either of those extremes or anything in between AND attractive if you look and act masculine.
Women definitely do not care about morals. That’s why they survive.
If you’ve been dating women with questionable morals, it is the fault of an entire sex. YOU picked those women, women kind didn’t. Learn to make better choices.
Wrong. Women do not care about morals. They care about survival. If I told my wife I had to work as a hitman to feed our kids and have a life, she would not care. And so she should – her offspring should be her main concern. I have picked a lot of women in my lifetime, and they have all been of the same ilk. I am 44 by the way.
> Women do not care about morals. They care about survival.
– WRONG. The women YOU have picked and are with now have no morals and only care about survival. Because the women I know and the woman I am has morals and has expectations of their partners. My man being a hitman to put food on my table would be unacceptable to ME. I WOULD CARE. I’d rather go pick cans with HIM.
> I have picked a lot of women in my lifetime, and they have all been of the same ilk.
Exactly. YOU picked them.
> I am 44 by the way.
You’re old enough to know how to pick the people you surround yourself with.
Have you seen The Iceman?
$5 says you’re under 25 years of age.
I am old enough to know how the world really works – you are not.
You owe me $5
Not old enough to know that its pointless to argue with a woman 🙂
I did not think we were arguing…… :}
but it’s so much fun arguing with a woman.
Well, fuck me . So I got that one wrong then. I’m still right about women and the whole survival thing though – prove me wrong.
I missed this one, but I have – and I kinda liked him.
Great movie.
I guess it was really more like a pillow fight…
Are you going to respond to my last post?
Oddly enough, I never saw the movie, but the documentary – can’t say I disliked him.
Still no response.
He only killed bad guys right? Like Dexter.
> I’m still right about women and the whole survival thing though
Survival is not what is important to ME. The quality of life I live and what I do with my time on this planet is. A persons sex is irrelevant when it comes to how I treat them, sex doesn’t come into play in how I treat anyone. Essentially, my karma isn’t only what I do to others, it is also how I react to what others do to me. And I can not prove anything about my sex to you, just like you can not prove anything about your sex, I do not believe that every man is cut from the same cloth. One man doesn’t represent an entire sex.
You want to think you are right? That is YOUR right. You are entitled to your opinion. BUT. IMO.. Your opinion makes you narrow minded. You judge an entire sex based on your experience with the few women you have put yourself around. And I say few, because compared to the number of women on this planet, you number is few.
You must have really missed me……. 😉
LOL! That right there is pretty much a guarantee you DON’T know how the World works!
Well, he was a nasty character all round, but looking at his background, I can see how you can get to that point. I think you can desensitise people through violence to get to a certain point. I didn’t dislike him. Morally it’s a bit like what if someone fiddled around with your son or daughter – if you knew who it was, would you kill them. my answer would be yes, without hesitation. Yes, I realise it is a stretch between the two.
Obviously.
Wrong. Prove it.
Didn’t really answer my question, but pushed your point of view. I don’t think I was talking about sex/orientation?
Obviously I cannot be with millions of women in my lifetime. But it hasn’t been just a few.
I tell you what – if there where a whole lot of women on this site, all the guys would really know how to hone their argument.
“How the World works” implies an absolute truth as an objective reference. Ie…there is NO one single, isolated and predictable way in which “the World works.”
“How the World works” according to your perception and experience may not be how it works for everyone else…but of course, it HAS to be…because that’s the way YOU see and experience it, correct?
There are no absolutes of objective truth because what is “true” for you doesn’t necessarily mean its true for others. Truth, reality and the mechanics of “how the World works” aren’t absolute or objective, they’re relative and subjective.
The majority of conflict, suffering and PAIN generated in the World could cease in an instant if the Human Race could just get beyond this huge hard on it has about truth being absolute and objective.
Sorry, I would’ve rephrased that question if I knew I was dealing with a total fuckwit. I do understand the relationship between truth and subjectivity – thanks.
I know…I responded to your request and you perceive it as a threat to your manhood.
So your automatic result is to resort to infantile ad hominem…the last resort for “fuckwits.”
So much for your model of “how the World works.”
That’s fine…I’ll let others here give you the attention you so desperately seem to need…
Well personally I don’t argue with them. I tell them “enough!” and then enjoy the sulky silence.
Threat to my manhood? How does that figure? What you’ve said just doesn’t make sense. And I didn’t make a request.
Obviously you have not enjoyed the experience of proving them wrong through argument. A special skill. Be prepared to set aside at least two hours of your time though – the equivalent of fucking a woman properly. Maybe argument and sex have a lot in common.
I know it doesn’t make sense when you’re totally locked and invested in a single viewpoint to the exclusion of all others…that was my entire point.
BTW, you did make a request…rather a demand…you said “prove it.”
> Didn’t really answer my question,
I can not answer your question. No can provide you the proof that you require. Even if you did find a women that you deemed had morals.. she would still be ONE woman. She doesn’t represent all of women kind.
So. Because I am one women and I do not represent my sex. All I can tell you is my truths.
My truths are;
survival is not the most important thing.
I have morals, my partners morals should be compatible to mine in order to have a happy union.
Offspring/survival. Still my view on survival would not change, offspring do not become a be all end all in my relationship.
↑↑Those are my truths. Not all women.↑↑↑
> I don’t think I was talking about sex/orientation?
When I use “sex” I mean Male/female. I was not referring to sex=F&%$ing
Your wrote: “Women do not care about morals. They care about survival.”
I think to would have been better worded “Some” women. You do not know every woman on the planet to assert that they ALL lack morals as a fact. And when you speak about morals, I am sure you speak about your morals. Your morals are not the universal standards. What everyone should remember is to find partners who they are compatible with.. In morals, ethics and demons.
OK. I’ll take the last comment – I did say “prove it”. But you haven’t proved it. I am not locked in and invested, and you cannot claim that I am to the exclusion of all others. Prove THAT.
There is your problem. You want to argue with women. Me, as a women all I want is for a person to show some common sense, to have some openness of mind and to be able to walk a mile in the shoes of others…
Haha! No thanks…I’ll pass.
Who do you think you are in that little mind you live in?
Maybe they both excite you…and the arguing comes easier than the sex for you.
I give up – primarily because I don’t understand what I have gotten myself involved in. What you are putting forth makes no sense.At all.
He just wants to argue period…
Now that is a fucking predictable response – obviously the sex is more difficult. Lets go down the track of sex being more difficult to obtain shall we? Fucking doubt it. Maybe the arguing excites you – after all, you did respond to my post, and you are not getting any sex. Unless you’re a homo, of course.
What I am saying is; YOU do not represent ALL mEn. e.g. If one man is a d%&k to me, I will not hold a grudge against ALL mEn, and deem all mEn worthless pricks lacking morals.
YOU by stateing “Women do not care about morals. They care about survival.” are holding ALL womEn responsible for what a few did you you. You see womEn through tainted glass.
The other thing I am trying to say is, PEOPLE are bad… gender is irrelevant.
I think it is about the argument and the “being right”…
> Maybe argument and sex have a lot in common.
Maybe to you… That could mean that you might be an emotional sadist. Nothing wrong with that as long as the other person is an emotional masochist and the terms of the dynamic have been negotiated.
> Unless you’re a homo, of course.
Seriously…
Did it feel good to go down the homophobic path?? Is there really that much intelligence lacking?
Women have done nothing to me, they’ve been really good to me. I have had a lot of luck with women – don’t hate them either, I love them. love being around women. But they are geared for survival, not some sort of philosophical or religious moralism.
> But they are geared for survival, not some sort of philosophical or religious moralism.
….. LMAO.
↑↑That’s all I want to spare.
Oh. And I feel sorry for the women in your life. You have such low opinion and expectations of them. Maybe they are right to hold your balls.
Are you reading my response right? I really don’t think you understand what I have written. Don’t respond if you don’t understand the written word.
You have no idea what you are responding to. I don’t think you understand.
I
u n d e r s t o o d
every
word
The women around you are daft hedonistic women…
I hope the men around me never feel about the women in their lives as you do.
Don’t think so. Go over what I wrote, show me I have a low opinion of women and how they have me by the balls.
Actually. Earlier tonight I did think “I must be misunderstanding what he is trying to get across” so off I went to re-read your posts…… Now… No time.. I have to go look at some porn.
Well, what do you say to that, apart from – what porn are you watching?
I will remove this in a few…..
Yeah. OK. Wasn’t expecting a real porn feed. But that’s cool. Hope you masturbated to orgasm. I’m not into two guys on one girl though.
What else you got on your system?
……………………..
Mostly sh%tty home made crap……….. And it is not my system….
will remove ↑that↑ in 5 minutes.
Whatever. Bye Bye.
why in the world would you discuss anything with a women on here? Save the bandwidth for something that matters.
Not old enough to know how to deal with internet bait.
Just for fun. This site is entertainment. Nothing will get solved here.
Good point
In fact, if there were a lot of women on this site, a lot of guys here would really learn to hone their argument – but I think most of the ‘females’ on here are plants.
You can’t prove a woman wrong mate. They are always right even when they’re wrong.
Yeah he’s taken up a lot of comment space with this bullshit.
And the ‘woman’ I have been ‘arguing’ with is a grade A plant. All fake.
you married some shit women then
Wrong. Married the right woman.
My dear Englishbob, you are correct. But deep down they know they are wrong. And they know it. And even though you won’t get an apology there will be a degree of contrition that you can exploit.
I love the word mate. You have to be either Australian or English.
– If one man is a d%&k to me, I will not hold a grudge against ALL mEn, and deem all mEn worthless pricks lacking morals. –
Hmm………let’s see…….what if 200 men were dicks to you?
– You see womEn through tainted glass. –
It’s high-time for men to change the rule of engagement, AWALT until proven NAWALT, better safe than sorry, sorry.
– My truths are;
survival is not the most important thing. –
How often have you crossed a busy street without waiting for the cars to slow down or stop?
Then why do women punish the men they’re currently seeing over things other men from their past did?
Shit. I didn’t realise there was a space constraint. I was just doing this for fun. Does that mean others could not comment?
People/women tend to pervert morals to whatever suits them at that time… in my experiences women rarely stand up for whats right and usually only do so when it directly benefits them.
The reason chicks were getting banned is that they were taking up all the comment space with their useless prattle. This meant that otherwise profound and interesting comments were being buried beneath the avalanche of horse shit.
I was going to ask ‘what the hell are you going on about’, and then I realized your avatar is a white knight, and you are defending the female poster.
Going to give you the benefit of the doubt here.
Well played.
then they give us the silent treatment, and we act like we dont like it, lol
“unless you’re a homo of course.”
Oh wow, touché…you really got me there…golly. How did you know? You are so insightful and observant!
Damn…you just KNOW everything don’t you; and, you’re ALWAYS right! How do you do that?
Yes Jethro, it’s true, That big Johnson of yours makes me feel really insecure and I’m jealous of you for having it…especially when you pull it out and wave the entire one inch of it in everyone’s face here.
I mean…it’s massive, even bigger than your brain.
I’m certainly no match for that towering intellect and witty repartee of yours.
Hey, for a guy who’s going into the 8th grade next year, you’re already an alpha monster to be reckoned with.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
No wonder women think the majority of us guys are clueless idiots, and play us accordingly.
He sounds like he’s twelve years old here doesn’t he?
Your conscious actions and thoughts are riddled with sub-conscious motivations one is not aware of. Besides, morals are just a collective agreement for easier survival.
Fair enough. How come they still get on here though?
I’m in 7th grade.
No one believes this.
Another truth about women is that they completely lack introspection. The idea of you willingly collecting cans with a broke guy instead of going down on a mobster is probably one of the most ridiculous statements of denial I’ve heard yet.
My wife is a ” moral” woman. She prays five times a day, goes out of her way to care for children, and is virtuous in terms of her sexual past. But it’s funny how, for all of he’d talk about being a good muslim, she has ZERO problem brung married to a sausage and pork rhine-eating heathen. For some reason all the little local beta guys who are at Mosque all the time and are perfect little Shirley Temples get no play- from her or any of her friends. Hell, one of her friends is married to a white Air Force officer who calls people ” ragheads.”
Seriously, women go not respect morals. And you are no different.
English Bob is right- they automatically go for the ad hominem.
You know, I don’t think they even realize that they are hypocrites. How many times in college did chicks throw themselves at me after I argued with them about abortion or some other feminist issue? I don’t think they realize what they are doing.
That’s why I always say it’s the manginas and make feminists who are the problem. They are so craven that they take women’s sides just to cockblock you, even though it doesn’t work 99 percent of the time. Pathetic.
It feels good to me; that’s one reason I will never get all patriotic, despite being “American by Race.”
At least “Abdullah” has the guts to see a mental illness for what it is and call it out.
Since homosexuality is basically an alternative survival strategy for weaker males, or those without fathers to protect them, and it by its existence undermines healthy, natural competition for mates between heterosexual men, it’s right and noble to call it out.
It has played its role in ruining society after society historically. Give it 20 years and you will see it ravage this culture as well.
You are the one with the pathetic 90s hipster , ”
What are you in third grade” arguement.
There’s much more valuable truth to be learned from a third grade playground than a hipster concert, that’s for damn sure. One is a reflection of the ” state of nature,” another a parasitic cultural tumor that requires massive levels of prosperity to exist.
Totally untrue. People fight for gain.
Abandoning ” truth” would just make the conflict more chaotic. Warfare is an eternal part of human life.
You and your ” girlfriend” have been throwing out Ad Hominem attacks this entire time.
Look- I will be open with you. We all know guys like you, and we know what you end up living like. That’s my issue with being a ” white knight.”
Ok so you defended this ditzy chick with no sense and no level of introspection. Is she gonna blow you now? IF this were a real life encounter, she’d be blowing Hieronymous later.
This is the major obstacle to arguing red pill truth- to accurately assay it you have to out away all of the defense mechanisms, ego-saving lies, etc. that enable you to live on the bottom rung. If s person can self-decieve indefinitely, no matter how much the world around them punishes them for their blue pill beliefs.
This is a perfect example of a person’s ability to self- decieve right here.
So if I approach you ( I’m a very large, dark-skinned man) in a dark, empty parking lot at 2:00 AM you won’t treat me differently than a 5’2″ female?
Do you see how idiotic these kinds of mental masturbations/moralizations are?
During Hurricane Katrina my friend killed his sister over a bag of ice.
Trust me you care about survival more thsn anything- I will believe what you say when I see pics of you picking up cans on the side of the road with your dorky beau.
That’s their goal- when you argue with women and leftist men you have to constantly keep them on task. Otherwise they will destroy the discussion by taking it all over the place.
I have to really be in the mood to tolerate the silliness that comes out of their mouths.
Yeah I fell for it too. I’m unable to walk by a man dealing with feminist idiots without getting involved.
I will practice more self control in the future.
Especially since their goal here is just to take up space and distract from the real discussion.
DUH!
Really…I’ve been throwing out ad hominem attacks all along? Where? which ones?
Self deception…yeah, read your own posts.
FYI, I don’t have any girlfriends here.
If by chance it appears that the lone woman here is making more sense at times, I know that feels threatening; and,
it could have something to do with the mental chum, frat boy mentality that posts here…
who said anything about abandoning truth?
do you know how to read?
WTF are you mumbling about and drooling on yourself over?
You don’t make any sense at all.
Did your mother have any children who were born with a brain?
No bother, I know the answer…
Yes, you’ll see to that
Lmao.
Hit close to home didn’t it? Lol.
Yes and I iniw that you’re rekativistic nonsense would cause many more issues than otherwise lmao.
It’s clear you’re another white leftist sperg so please go about your business.
Haha. Man you really now how to expose yourself.
” frat boys.” They really get to you don’t they? Getting all that prime ass, getting drunk all the time only to be rewarded with a cushy job by daddy.
Yeah I don’t like them all that much either, but no, this chick is far from making sense.
Just remember- this attitude of yours will not get you quality pussy.
Money, chicks, power. Status, they don’t matter to you, do they? You’d rather be ” right” according to a life- denying pseudo- moral code. Funny how it’s always those who are unable to better their circumstances who claim such.
Let’s just go ahead and skip to the part where you reveal to me whom pleated you as a child , and caused you to hate masculinity.
“I’ll let others here give you the attention you so desperately seem to need” – bit rich coming from someone who has posted over a 1000 times. Why are you on here then? Altruism? Please don’t respond, as it upsets my many fans on ROK.
Yes, and you are doing so much for the ’cause’. Full on activist behind an avatar.
Lmao.
Hit SO close to home. I’m loving it.
Yes a must see.
Lol sarcasm. The “iceman” killed whoever he was paid to kill.
Problem dude, unless you are a delusional white-knight who refuses to see someone for what they are, most women now do have questionable morals.
Have you tried to have a conversation with a woman on her unethical behavior? You will get denials, deflections, etc…
Unless you have been living under a rock I am sure you have heard the common deflection “but when a man does it”. And if you have had the conversation more than twice you probably can figure out that “when a man does it” doesn’t always apply to behavior men commonly engage it or that society is cool with men doing. A friend of one of my ex-girlfriends pulled that one on me when I told her that dancing on the tables that I found dancing on the tables at clubs just to boost your “ego” as somewhat trashy. Now tell me, when do most guys do that? And when does it actually get defended? I can tell you in my circles we normally laugh at the guy.
You will also be amazed at how quick horrid behaviors are defended or deflected upon the second the “jury” knows the person engaged in that behavior is a woman.
Just look at the cases you see when teachers sleep with underage students.
Look at fraudulent rape claims, how long did Krystal Gale Magnum do in jail after falsely accusing three college students of raping her. All of the people who were calling for those students heads on a platter had no words of apology or sympathy for those students after it was determined that she falsely accused them and she did not one day in jail for her crime. Meanwhile, those students, more than 8 years later are probably still feeling the effects of that fraudulent accusation.
One ex-girlfriend of mine accused me of being a bully for harmless fun my brothers and I engaged in years ago yet had no problem sticking up for two of her friends when they called someone “Creeper” merely because the guy did not socialize with them. You continuously call someone a “Creeper” and you wonder why they don’t speak to you? You think that is going to make them socialize with you?
Money, I can give a male friend of mine in need a little bit of cash and know that generally the male friend will appreciated it. Female friends, that is a different story. Not only do they tend to lose respect for me over it, they tend to be more entitled to it the next time around. I had an ex wife who got infuriated with me because I gave my mother money when she needed it. I had an ex girlfriend decide that she needed money when I had a good friend of mine for years (one who I would have no doubt that he would have done the same and more for me had I been in that situation) decide that she needed money too and that I needed to open a pay pal account to give her that money. Needless to say there was resentment when I declined.
So, in summary while not all women have questionable morals and ethics, the majority do. In all fairness, it is not merely woman’s fault. Society in general, simps who encourage the bad behavior by leading them into it, and white knights who are quick to defend a woman no matter how horrid her behavior hold a much larger blame.
Lol!!
Lmao!
Lol
nice shot, bob……..you said it before i could
it’s when they shut up that you know you won……agreed
you, “as a woman” are clearly out of your element……..you should head back to your encounter group of “yes” men……..one of “them” will surely agree with you
Look! A unicorn!
American women, is a more accurate statement.
I would care if a man I loved was going to do something immoral. Some women care about morals, some don’t.
And, regardless of how many women you’ve picked, you probably stuck to women you were attracted to. So they were likely all of a certain type.
She is old enough to know how she works. No one knows how all of the world works, we only know about those little bits and pieces that we have been part of.
> “Men often don’t understand that women are not attracted to morals.”
That statement only makes me question your morals and character. No offense. But crap attracts crap. Birds of a feather.
– That statement only makes me question your morals and character. No offense. But crap attracts crap. Birds of a feather.-
Indeed! I always chuckled whenever there’s some broad got clobbered or killed by her husband, crap attracts crap. Birds of a feather.
Women are attracted to self confidence, and a range of other things that relate to power, attractiveness and strength. But….do not forget that they operate in a marketplace where men have placed a very high price on pussy. If there was a much reduced value on pussy, women would need to cultivate other sides to them to attract men. But really, that will probably never happen.
I once asked my ex if I was a nice guy (she got taken out, home cooked dinners, holidays etc.) she said “no!”. Why? Because I didn’t tolerate her crap. The relationship ended after years because of her failures.
Example of my arseholery: in Miami a couple of guys I just met invited me to join them for table service at a top club. I’m sure it was expensive. Halfway through the night I thought “fuck this, I’m not paying hundreds of dollars for this bullshit” and left without paying a cent.
Arsehole? Yeah I probably am but I don’t give a fuck and probably neither did they. Interesting thing was, I had a line of girls trying to talk to me. I took the number of one and then danced and made out with another while they were both in the same club. The nice guys paying for this shit? Got nowhere chasing chick after chick but their sacrifice was appreciated as I got this pussy on account of their efforts.
You’re obviously an arsehole – keep it up.
lol… It was like an epiphany… I was in the club, dancing with this chick and I thought “wow… I’m actually an arsehole!”
And then the very next night I did the same thing again!
Shame on you. I like it. When I was younger I was always an arsehole to women, and they loved it. My wife loves it that I am hard and that I take no shit and say it like it is. Never be soft and you’ll be fine. Women get wet when you are as hard as fuck (I am normally more eloquent and articulate).
You go, arsehole!
only faggots pieces of shit give a fuck what women want even bigger faggots then the ones you mentioned
keep babbling what women are attracted to, pussy worshiping clown
You can’t even string a sentence together, you fucking clown.
Correct. Don’t be a nice guy. Be a good sport.
If the fat neckbeard isn’t getting laid, he’s out white knighting. It is in the interests of men everywhere to slap some confidence into them.
I like anime bro. Not all us Anime nerds are pushover fat neckbeards. I can kill a man with my bare hands. True story.
Plus watching DBZ is more fun than listening to some chick bitch about whatever it is they spew when things are not entering their mouths.
The way to get laid in the U.S.:
1. Take steroids or prohormones
2. Get a job as a DJ or bartender
3. Get tribal tattoos on your biceps
4. Wear a hat either backwards or to the side with a flat bill
5. Wear tapout shirts
Confidence is bullshit, well, the way I undersand it. If you need a guy to repair your car, will you ask a guy with confidence or a guy that has 10 years of good experiences backed up with good training?
Why are those mutually exclusive? Someone with ten years experience will be more confident than someone with none.
It mean nothing. Its all about good training and good experiences.
I’m not really sure who nice guy number 2 is based on.
Acting in my rational self interest is my moral imperative. Nice guy 2 is how I live, however I don’t swim in pussy as I am just not as smooth or goodlooking as the competition.
I respect your honesty. I tire of the endless stream of self-proclaimed
alphas clogging up the comment sections with their faultless life stories.
Oh boy i could tell you how I struck out this weekend by being too much of a bitch to make a move on a chick. I struck out because I didn’t take a swing.
I would suggest that there are very, very few Alphas actually on here.
Nice guy two is how people should act in general, according to their rational self-interest. Altruism is a recipe for disaster that’s logical conclusion is death. Rational egoism, or putting yourself first while respecting the rights of others, will lead to long, properous, happy lives.
If a situation arise in which my rational self-interest and your rights are mutually exclusive, to which should I defer and why?
I cannot imagine a sitation where it is in my rational self interest to violate the rights of another. Maybe a self defense situation, but they temporarily suspend their right to life when unjustly initiating force, giving me moral liscense to potentially kill to protect myself.
So the answer is that you must respect the rights of all individuals, but it is in your rational self interest to do so.
Rational egoism is the way to go and you only get one chance to prove that you are all about yourself and a sound bloke on top of that. If not, you’re gonna be seen as a weak person and get stepped on.
Let’s say I’m the second choice candidate for a great-paying job for which you were just hired. Let’s also say that I can kill you and get away with it, without the slightest shadow of suspicion haunting my reputation in the future. I certainly would stand to gain by bumping you off. You can insist that you have the right to not be murdered, but why should I give a shit? I wanna get paid!
(I really am asking the question: Why should I give a shit?)
I’ll shoot your ass first if you try. And yes, I’m armed, deal with it. There is no such thing as the perfect crime.
People who are that sociopathic tend to weed themselves out early. They aren’t as smart as they think they are, and end up in prison or dead. If he gets one person out of his way, some other victim will take him out in the future.
Initiating violence to get your way may seem to be in your self interest, but eventually it will catch up to you, since it is in everyone else’s self interest to kill you or put you in jail if you consider random violence to be a good strategy.
To be fair, we only know about psychopaths who are caught and identified. Maybe there are really smart ones who never get caught.
One of the problems with advocating for rational self-interest (RSI) is that people don’t always act in their self-interest; rather, they act in what they believe to be their own self-interest. The idea that everyone is capable of figuring out what is truly in their best interest, this is an assumption.
Furthermore, a principle of RSI as the fundamental basis of morality–this invalidates or paradoxically destroys itself when we contemplate extreme situations. What if a sociopath really was in a position to kill me for his own rational self-interest.
1) If it would still be wrong for him to kill me, than his RSI must be overridden by some other principle. This principle would have to either be more fundamental that the principle of RSI, or it would have to be a co-principle interacting with the principle of RSI by some mechanism underlying (and hence more fundamental than) both.
2) If it’s permissible for the sociopath to kill me according to the principle of RSI, then it’s in my RSI to advocate, support, and enforce a system that does not treat RSI as the fundamental basis for morality.
a more sensible question would be what if you hired this guy found out he was a competent employee and wanted to get rid of him because it would hurt your longterm chances at success. many people argue that corporations are totally darwinian in nature but for a corporation to succeed there needs to be mutual benefit to some extent. I think both positions are hard to fully reconcile.
My right to do so. I hired him. I can hire and fire who I choose.
Well fortunately for you, you negated all possible reasons to not do that in the premise.
Please elaborate. What have I negated all possible reasons to do? To which premise are you referring? It’s also not clear how this answers the question “Why should I give a shit?”
No, some amount of altruism is very commendable. A society based on rational egoism will decend into narcissism sooner or later. Society functions when people at times are able to set aside their instant gratification and Work for the benefit of others.
Occasionally its fine to take one for the team, Family, Work or friends. Everybody is expected to sacrifice and compromise to some degree.
Rational egoism is a product of liberal hyper individualistic thinking, for this reason any traditionalist should look upon this theory with suspicion.
Well I am not a traditionalist. Rational egoism and narcissism are not one in the same, but you are right, an egoist is much more seceptable to narcissism than altruists.
Yes, they are not the same but they mutually reinforce eachother. And because of this narcissism will spread far more easily.
Perhaps then it would be advisable to state that you are either some sort of social liberal or libertarian.
Anyone familiar with Objectivism can see very clearly that my language used in the first comment can very clearly see I am promoting Objectivist ethics. I am not really a social liberal, I really am more socially conservative but I am Objectivist primarily.
This is already turning into a ridiculously selfish and narcissistic country/world. True loyalty is so hard to find, even amongst men and family now, that selfishness is almost the only option. Materialist, consumerist cultures regress civilization to a primitive dog-eat-dog level where its every man for himself. Nobody is willing to sacrifice and compromise anymore and you will be taken advantage of if you dont take care of yourself first.
I understand that rational egoism as a theory of ethics is an adaption to the present circumstances in modern western society.
The dog-eat-dog mentality is primarily an urban phenomena, made possible by the cultural trends that you mention, as well as the development of ethnic and cultural diversity.
When people live close to eachother in large numbers, with very little in common, it is much more tempting to only look out for one self and perhaps a very small group of relatives and friends. It is however not a long term sustainable morality, if one is interested in preserving civilization.
To turn the tide one needs to start building smaller local communities based on loyalty, family ties and obligation. Rational egoism simply is easily exposed when people live and interact in smaller close knit groups were practically everybody is acquainted with one another, and reputation is everything. Free riding is very difficult in such an environment, since word travels quickly.
The best thing one can do is to remove oneself from this toxic urban environment, and move to a rural area.
No, not even in your wildest dreams. Very few people do that and I will never do it. What I can do (or try to do) is put aside my instant gratification and work for MY later benefit. Sure, sometimes i misjudge my later benefit, but that’s an another story entirely.
Family is the only (slight) exception, for good reason (read about genetics), but real (non-reciprocal) altruism is an aberation, and, guess what, very seldom encountered. Don’t bet on it, if something looks like real altruism, good chance you don’t know all there is to know about it or misjudge the (selfish) priorities of the supposed altruist.
Corrolary, and back to the relative lacks of morality of women vs men. This is not incompatible with my no-real-altruism position, it’s just that later gratification is quite different for men and women. As many have said, a good reputation is nice to have among man, it’s part of reciprocal altruism and works very well among primates, even better among humans who have the brainpower to put it good use. If you assume women gain more from interraction with the opposite sex than with their own, and that their reputation is trumped by their physical beauty (which is the case – at least most of the time), then it’s obvious that their “morality” (just a way to build reputation and benefit from reciprocal altruism) is weaker. Think about it, once all the drama and embelishment is removed, and all benefits accounted for, humans are surprisingly rational beings
Sure you can always claim that no pure instances of altruism exist. And that in cases where only psychological rewards are at stake, this is reducible to selfish behaviour ultimately.
I wont get into this very philosophical discussion, which really boils down to semantics. What do we actually mean by the term, and how do we judge outcomes, short term relative to long term.
My point is actually that sacrifice for others occasionally, can be in one persons long term interest. This includes investing and giving gifts to Family and friends, doing community Work etc.
Working for higher causes is also morally a good thing. Payoff might potentially only be winning fame or reputation. Whether one calls this type of behaviour selfish or altruistic is in my opinion not that important.
Yes, agree, when you consider psychological benefits it gets murky….But surprisingly often, you don’t have to do it to debunk real altruism…That was the point of my comment and you do it already. Winning fame and reputation is a big reason why people embrace higher cause (especially when the real effort may be much less that the advertising aroung the fact you support such and such). There is also group dynamic, where not supporting the CAUSE may lead to immediate and tangible penalties. And then there is the old-fashioned conflict or interest and hidden monetary benefits – just today I learned that “les enfoirés” in France (a group of artists who gives concert without being paid and gives back the benefits to poor people – there are a lot of equivalents in the Anglo world) still earn the author rights when others sing their song…..which they do a lot, part of the concept is to re-use well know success with different lyrics and interpret – and the authors are often part of it). Not sure how it balance up in the end, but following the money (finely and accurately) is always very instructive – and difficult.
One of the central idea here is that SMV of women is quite one-dimensional, while for men it is more multi-faceted and ultimately linked to power, especially social power. If you agree with that (I do) and think that morality is mostly another name for reciprocal altruism handbook (I do, although it is present for so long in primates that it has been hardwired, so people now react instinctively and that can be fooled especially in modern world where condition changes quickly)….Then it follows almost automatically that the moral (or maybe how strictly you adhere to a moral, or how fluid the moral is – all the same if you ask me) will differ, on average, between sexes. Just like it differ between strangers (that you will never meet again) and acquaintances. Family is another thing, not only do you met them continuously (for most people), but the shared genes are important to compute the benefits of altruism….
I have found that most people who talk the “altruism” BS are actually
narcissist. My experience with true altruism individuals.. they do not
talk about it. They are more action less words.
Well I don’t even try to practice altruism, as I do not see it as a moral activity for the reason I said in the original comment.
Beware the man who complains that he can’t get what he wants because he is “too nice”. That’s too easy an excuse. I also keep on eye on the person who feels it necessary to tell everyone “I am an honest person.”
Every guy who frequently proclaimed how honest and righteous he was, always ended up trying to screw me, without fail. Pay attention to what people do, not what they say.
– Beware the man who complains that he can’t get what he wants because he is “too nice”. –
That’s the male version of ” I can’t find a husband because men are intimidated by strong independent women like me “.
If this man were instead to say “too selfless”, would that still raise your suspicious, or might he actually just make an honest, self-conscious observation?
I find that being a natural sociopath works well for me:)
I envy you, wish I was a natural sociopath
I think guys who are overly nice in number 2 category are in many way sociopaths. I think nice guy number 1 tend to be insecure and therefore rely on other for guidance. They tend to be the types that supplicate others behaviours and are not confident in themselves. they are nice in that they don’t strive for confrontation which is highly sought after in most social interactions. However in a relationships women desire a degree of confrontation. Both men and women desire boundaries and where there is no boundaries there is no relationships. Guys who can charm people and seem all too nice are usually sociopathic. It’s an appealing trait for most especially in the modern world that so highly atomised.
Being a sociopath isn’t a bad thing.
> However in a relationships women desire a degree of confrontation.
You are in a way correct. Form personal experience. When I am showing undesirable traits to my partner I want HIM to tell me what He wants and if the is “Cut your shit out” then so be it. Just do not argue with me because that is a lost cause. I think a lot of guys make the mistake of arguing with women, when all they have to do is tell us how the cow ate the damn cabbage and move on.
Very insightful for a lady.
You’re saying a lot of things here that I don’t think you can back up. You seem to have a real thing about “sociopaths”. Frankly, IMO sociopaths are terrible at charming people.
Sociopaths are known for their alluring social skills…
What they are known for and what they have are two different things.
You should look at some of the research. Come back when you’ve got a psychology degree.
Just watched a full season of Dexter. Now I’m an expert. Just like you.
Color me impressed.
LOL! My life is now complete.
not all sociopaths are going to be brilliant at charming people. Defining a sociopath comes down to specific traits that might be genetic but theres a large socio-economic component as well. C. Hitchen’s writes of meeting B.clinton and what Clinton was specifically like and he noted that he could charm everyone in the room. Which he viewed not as a positive trait because someone who can charm everyone really has no one’s interest at heart but their own.
I waver between the two, leaning on #2. I knew everyone would want to know that.
As cynical as it may sound I never understood the need for some men to participate in meaningless acts of unrequited altruism. It just seems illogical to me how guys would prefer to waste their valuable time on pleasing other people who don’t really bother to appreciate or reciprocate the same level of kindness.
Life is so short, Why not make the best of it? Why not make yourself your first priority? After all you’re all that you’ve got and you’re all you’re gonna end up with at the dawn of your days.
”It just seems illogical to me how guys would prefer to waste their
valuable time on pleasing other people who don’t really bother to
appreciate or reciprocate the same level of kindness.”
It comes for Christianity and some other religions. Doing this sort of thing is not ultimately done for the other person but for God.
Something I’ve been contemplating and am still struggling to understand is the possibility that there are two selves, the lesser and the greater. The lesser self is individualistic, spanning the ego. The greater self is communal in the sense of sharing and being in close contact with others.
One of the recurring themes of religion and mythology* is the recognition of death and the subordination of the ego to some higher calling (the greater self). The Buddhists take this one step further to emphasize not just how fleeting the individual is, but also how illusory the ego itself really is. Stripped of your memories, your experiences, your instincts, your biological impulses, is there anything left?
Parents describe themselves as feeling as if their children are a part of them, and that they are a part of their children. Maybe sometimes there is no inherent difference between altruism and acting in your own self interest.
Good article. I’ve been #1 due to personal problems and now I am #2 and things are significantly better.
Well I’m in the process of bieng nice guy #2 if not, I believe I already am nice guy #2. Gotta question is nice guy #1 is a product of single motherhood, yes or no? Does christianity has a role of creating nice guy #1? Anyways don’t be the bad guy just be the good guy 🙂
It is a product of childhood paradigm that never gets corrected. Training to be a nice guy happens from childhood in innocuous ways. Do this thing. You’re a good boy. Don’t do that. You’re a bad boy. As social creatures we all seek approval. Learning the joy of self approval comes later. And for many, it never arrives as you see when a person can’t quit work, or not have a girlfriend, or leave friends behind.
Better answer, don’t be bad or good. Be the guy who is happy with your life.
Great insight. Type #1 can be summarized as the approval seeker. Manginas and white knights are full blown approval seekers when you see it that way. Type #2 cares first and foremost about his own approval, principles and sense of justice.
Dr Wayne Dyer (before he turned all woo woo guru like) published two very good books which explore these concepts in great depth: Your Erroneous Zones, and Pulling Your Own Strings.
He’s an awesome dude
I’m glad you picked up on my message. Also, that is a solid succinct addition to that message.
I just saw a youtube clip on Your Erroneous Zones. I’ll give Pulling Your Own Strings a look. In today’s environment there is something out there that will expand what you can do for yourself. It doesn’t even matter what that something is. Kind of a phenomenal time to exist in that sense. I love it as otherwise, I’d probably need to pay someone to tell me how to correct things. I’m not trying to throw cash for a cow when the milk is there for the taking!
I’d argue that having a mother who embraces rabid feminism directly leads to #1. Such a boy grows up thinking that he has to bend over backwards to help women out, no matter what the personal cost, even if there is no net gain.
Come to think of it that is how white knights are born.
I think we should draw a distinction between being a nice guy and a good man. When I hear “nice guy,” I always think of type #1. In contrast, a good man takes care of himself first, respects those who deserve respect, and is honest and diligent in his professional life. Asshole alphas can rack up impressive notch counts, but the rest of their life can be a train wreck. For example, I know a thirty something man who has half a dozen girls who will come over for a bang with one text message, but he’s an alcoholic who works for slightly above minimum wage.
Too many people think that a guy’s shitty behavior is somehow acceptable because he gets alot of tail. The bad rap on nice guys comes solely from women, as they are immoral and dont know how to be kind for no reason other than being kind. You can scour the internet and you will find very few women helping anyone out (someone she doesnt pity), so naturally they would be attracted to selfish men. We, as men, aren’t guided by our primitive, primal instincts, so the need to assess every man’s “fitness” is not our duty. I’m only concerned with a man’s virtue and his intentions if I am deciding how I feel about him.
I have no problem with nice guys even the #1 in the article. Most men have good intentions and we all have to learn how selfish to be and what kind of man we want to become. We will either learn or be devoured, thats our choice. Guys shaming other guys for being kind and giving is lame and pointless to me.
Love you comment 🙂
> half a dozen girls who will come over for a bang with one text message for a bang with one text message.
Here is the thing. MOST men want those kind of females. The ones who are easy, all it takes is one text. And then when they get those women, they complain about their character, morals and ethic. WHAT DID THEY EXPECT!?!?! IT took ONE TEXT. lol Those are the same guys who call females with good character, morals and ethic bitches.
I have no clue why men lust after females in some losers black book. Birds of a feather.
This is what girls like. They don’t wanna beta they can walk on, but girls who aren’t nuts won’t put up with an asshole for long. Nice guy 2 is the happy median.
Nice guy #2 is the gold standard for men, however if we were to derive a template of acceptable behaviors for women – I would spit on a cunt who didn’t dare put me and her family before all else. Self interest is only acceptable for men. It’s funny how vulgar and disgusting women are who attempt to put their own interests and well being prior to those of the men she serves.
Masculine energy is selfish, feminine energy is selfless. We both get disgusted when the roles are reversed. There’s nothing more unattractive than a selfish woman.
Therein lies the problem of permitting females to attend institutions of higher learning. Anyone given a taste of agency or autonomy will know that full-stop, happiness is the merit of ones accomplishments – this is why we as men MUST curtail the accomplishments of women to exclusively that of the biological function of childbirth. There’s a reason women aren’t going back to the kitcken. We wouldn’t want to go back if that was what destiny and biology had us relegated to either. A women’s lot sucks shit, but it aint our fucking problem. Women have sprung the coop in mass and none of them are selfless anymore. They all want careers and they feel entiteled per their degrees to have them. It starts at home and it will take real MEN to step up and start punishing ambition severly in female children. My daughter would be put in foster care so fast her head would spin were she to EVER so much as glance at a college website online – she loses her Vcard before marriage – she can rot on the streets like a dead whore for all I would care. We need to demand selflessness of women once more or society will fail. It starts at home brothers!
Sounds like the main difference in these types is the 2nd guy is essentially selfish (puts himself first), and the 1st one is selfless (puts everyone else first). Selfish has always been good, it’s only modern society makes you think putting your own needs first is wrong.
At the end of the day, the ONLY person in the world with your best interests in mind is you.
This is true in every instance and under every circumstance.
Men its over. The manginas have won. American society is so twisted this is now considered the perfect female body:
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/plus-size-model-tess-holliday-encourages-women-to-109302798263.html
That was hands down the most depressing article I’ve ever seen.
What next? Women just get to take a dump in their pants whenever they want? They shouldn’t be forced to sit on the toilet, maybe because it symbolizes white power and the gentle curve of the toilet bowl is an unfair expectation and toilets are fat-shaming. Therefore women can just fill their trunks at will. If men don’t feel attracted to that then it’s just that they have unfair and unrealistic odor demands and that they fear ‘real odor’. “Women shouldn’t have to go around smelling like roses just to please the patriarchy. Go ahead! Shit your pants girls! YOLO. Grrrrrllll Power.”
Trends are getting worse.
As soon as their articles affect my DNA and genetics this will matter.
Until then, write what they want, my DNA has a prediliction towards slender, healthy women.
From my experience, most “Nice Guys” are pussies at best and date rapist — who don’t have the balls to go through with it– at worst.
“Oh if she’d just she how great we could be together… or pass out in my presence”.
Many people would call the #2 guy selfish, but the word ‘selfishness’ itself gained a lot of bad reputation, which, according to me, is not justified. I came up with two types of selfishness:
1) The bad type, where the individual will use others, completely ignoring their rights and opinions, to get what he wants.
Examples: SJWs and many other activists, collectivists, often women and “alpha jerks”
2) The good type, where one puts himself first, yet respects other people enough not to ruin their lives for personal gain.
Examples: individualistic and independent people, the #2 guy in this article
I’m a combo of both but leaning towards 2. I need to serve myself first.
Doesn’t everyone fall somewhere between 1 and 2? Especially when making transition from blue pill to red pill.
there are no absolutes in anything. Everything is a spectrum. A lot of manosphere blogs make that distinction even when giving advice.
Just the way life is, we speak in archetypes when describing the abstract
I´m pretty damn sure the #2 you described doesn´t exist in reality.
Those people are mostly hated by other guys because they are fucking assholes towards men and two-faced “gentleman” towards the ladies.
I´ve known a few of them and they all were very successful with girls but arrogant, self-loving douches with other guys.
Your definition is a contradiction. Someone who really puts his needs first CAN´T be nice and positive to everybody. He´s just nice to the people he needs for his own good somehow and charming to the women he wants to penetrate.
Real nice guys never had it easy with women and never will have it easy with them. There are no exceptions of this rule.
So I can’t give my friend a lift to the airport because earlier in the day I went to the gym, ate a nice meal, had sex with a beautiful woman and enjoyed a walk in the park by myself?
I had no idea.
Listen, what I really mean is that this article sucks.
The author described nice guy #1 as some super suicidal loser and nice guy #2 as the ultimate mega hero. He should have named the article “Losers vs. Winners”.
There are no different kinds of nice. You´re either nice or you don´t.
Well said. I wrote about this topic from a persuasion and influence standpoint about two years ago–and came up with some similar conclusions.
See here for my take on it: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201211/why-nice-guys-and-gals-finish-last-in-love
I like this article too. Glad that you enjoyed this one. This gave me perspective.
Thanks Tony. Yeah, I get kind of tired of a predominant “nice guys = beta losers” rhetoric I hear around. Some “nice guys” are passive wimps, but other “nice guys” are generally pleasant, but assertive when they need to be.
My liberal, Godless, college has a confessions page.
Not long ago an anonymous poster submitted a confession detailing how he thought all women were beautiful and wished to have sex before graduating at the end of this school year (he was a virgin).
There were only four comments on his confession, the top voted one said:
“You are selfish for wanting to have sex, and for putting a timeline on having sex.”
The second comment was just a meme of SpongeBob holding up a glass of drink with the text saying: “the thirst is real”.
The third comment was a man stating that we should be more sensitive and intimating that the confessor may have been a lesbian who was still in the closet (afraid of coming out).
The fourth comment just said: “desperate much?”
I cannot stand this abject faggotry, the commenters on the confession bordered on being delusional, essentially filled with self-righteous hatred for someone expressing their wish to have sex.
Our entire species exists, because we have sex.
I couldn’t stand it, the opinion I have, the person I am, is so rare in this world. And I am essentially surrounded by people who consider a man, guilty, because he is a man.
Just by virtue of being man, you are now a rapist, a creep, a pedophile, desperate, thirsty, a criminal, “dangerous”, “violent”. Just because, you have two balls and a penis.
This entire world is fucked, it wants to swallow us whole, and leave nothing left for us.
Whenever I’m going through a relatively antisocial spell, and feel like I should get myself out there a little more, anecdotes like these remind me what kind of bullshit actually awaits. Good post.
God he should just go to Nevada to those ranches, I admit the responses were over the top but those sorts of posts showcase his desperation and thirst more than anything. Or go to a sane country where it’s legal(or barely regulated) and just do it there. The ironic part is for every comment calling him a loser or whatever there are probably 50 guys squirming and feeling uncomfortable at how little pussy they get(or no pussy). I’ll give him that he at least has the balls to say how he feels, isolated and depressed. Even if he didn’t say those words I know that’s how he feels.
These bitches with their constant validation have no idea what it’s like to be alone for even a day. And yet this is the society that wants men to be more “sensitive” and you have women calling him creep and loser. Jesus Christ people are fucking stupid.
Well, this is the internet. As soon as you admit weakness like that, everyone starts to troll you because that’s how trolls get their kicks to make themselves feel superior.
Most “men” who think they are “nice guys” are just insecure boys with chips on their shoulder and a heavy does of entitlement.
Here’s some free unsolicited advice gents.
Women only do what YOU let them get away with.
Do not let any woman hold the “I’ll leave” or “If you love me” gun to your head. Do not give or accept ultimatums.
IF YOU are not making yourself happy you will not be able to make others happy. Learn when to put your needs first.
If she doesn’t respect you, kick her arse to the curb.
Your woman should be compatible with your moral code. And IF she talks the talk, make sure she walks the walk. That means hold her accountable for her bullshit.
Summary: Do not hand a woman your nuts and then complain when she does some CBT to them… (Unless you want to submit to her and your hoping for some occasional CBT, if that’s your thing.. cool. get your kink on.)
Learned early on to call that bluff every fucking time.
Being a nice guy, I even hold the door for them as they storm out.
Good idea that, it’s not good for the doors getting slammed all the time.
I’d call #2 a “good guy” instead of a nice guy.
http://www.sosuave.com/articles/goodmen.htm
Don’t you mean “Good Fella”? 🙂
That’s weak. You can do better. You’re obviously intoxicated.
That really hurts my feelings man.
Cool article
I agree. You can have loads of self respect and put yourself first, while still being trust worthy, honest, and worthy of the respect and support of others. Being a dick will not help you in the long run.
This is very gradual, you can’t say “this one puts other people’s needs before his” and “this one don’t”. Someone who does the latter completely definitely can’t be called a “nice guy”, he’s basically a sociopath, and if he’s faced with a situation where an action fucking up several people’s lives would improve his own life marginally, he will do it without hesitation.
Those people are actually rare, and those who are at the other extreme of the scale are even rarer. The scale is very gradual and 99% of people are somewhere in the middle.
Women use the term “nice guy” in the sense of “a guy who makes my vaxina moist” or “A guy who will shut up and pay when I need some money”.
http://i.imgbox.com/II4upEik.jpg
“Nice” does not mean “friendly”, “polite” or any other of such concepts.
Additionally “nice” out of the mouth of a woman means “I won’t be laughed at if I chose him to be my bf”.
What happened to you in your life? Have you actually spent any appreciable time with a woman? Ever fucked one? Ever woke up next to one? Ever had a woman tell you she loved you?
Any other boilerplate, standardized ad hominem you wish to assault him with instead of noticing that his posted picture is in fact the reality we all now face?
It’s not a reality I have ever faced, and I definitely have enough experience. And I doubt it is a reality “we all now face”. I like your posts, but you’re wrong on this, unless you have a very personalised pain. Check out some of the posters other posts, and maybe you might have some second thoughts. I thought his post with a sewn up vagina with semen all over it was particularly ‘confronting’.
If you have issues with his other posts, that’s one thing, but that is not clear in your initial comment to him, with his one graphic above. It’s no secret that women have basically ‘married’ government now, the Family Court system is proof positive, and every other law coming out of Congress these days tells a story of government serving women exclusively at the expense of innocent men.
Don’t disagree with you. But I have read your posts, and I have read his posts. Look at his posts and you will get what I mean. I do my research man, I don’t just slag anyone off.
You wanna respond to the last post he hit me with?
And how would any experience of the sort you list change any of the things I post here? How would having a wonderful wife change the fact that women lead to a bigger government?
http://imgbox.com/rDeY23TC/
You sit on the nutbag edge. Didn’t answer my question though. “women are inferior scum” – where is that going?
Little by little towards the truth.
Because your question is offtopic AND irrelevant AND implies nonsense. The truth is that men have a worse opinion on women the more they have experience with women. It’s the virgins who glorify women.
http://i.imgbox.com/KEcJE5Mx.png
I think you confused my question for the quotation. Go back and look at what I initially asked you again.
You asked irrelevant nonsense.
It’s like me saying “Cars lead to pollution” and you ask “Did you ever drive a bus?”.
lol wuh? no. “nice” means you’re making her vagina dry up. try again..
Yes, it works like this:
“Where are the nice guys?” = “Where are the guys who make my vajayjay wet?”
“He’s too nice” = “He is especially friendly because he wants to get laid badly because he’s a loser”.
Bitchlogic.
http://i.imgbox.com/zwGkCDpX.png
Conclusion
People are tremendous assholes who won’t treat you as you treat them. The “golden rule” is shit.
No, actually it’s not. Treating yourself as you’d like to be treated implies that you have self interest and desire to be treated in a certain manner, with respect and kindness. If others see no need to reciprocate in that agreement, then the golden rule wouldn’t apply, but if they do, then it does. If your loyal friends treat you well, you’d be a complete sociopath to not reciprocate *assuming* you were of course taking care of your own needs first.
Yeah, I know, the article is simplifying for the sake of brevity. Just felt like summarizing the moral of the story as it’s presented.
The golden rule is beautiful in theory. It is about reciprocity. The break down happens when the other side doesn’t reciprocate.
I’ve purposely transitioned from Type 1 to Type 2 during my adulthood.
Awesome bro
Which is cool. But learn not to give a fuck about anything – certainly not what people think about you, and especially what women think about you. This may be hard, but if you talk about freedom (which you haven’t, I’m just adding it) , which this site unfortunately does in a misguided way, that will get you the most freedom and independence, and confidence. Which women love.
Here’s the bottom line: women love being shitty people.
They want no part of anything “nice”. Because they’re shit-brained and schizophrenic and do not know it they say they want nice.
What they really want is : a bastard.
Let me explain – once you’re one of the rare types of men who have managed to be unemotional and be a completely selfish and self-absorbed then women will want you. Otherwise, if you’re nice you’re gonna get screwed.
Let me explain further – women will only claim to want a nice guy if they’re in financial trouble – which is most of them – so they can squeeze out your hard-earned pennies for some overrated pussy. If you’re nice and she needs your wallet then she’ll put out. Otherwise, she’ll pretend you don’t exist unless you’ve shown yourself to be an effective bastard.
I think the author is correct in that being nice guy 2 is honorable and admirable but its not gonna get you women because you’re still being nice – and women hate anything nice.
They have horribly depraved souls. Life is too nice for them so they yearn for suffering and hardship. Women only appreciate strength and for them strength is NOT nice
“If he ate and rested well, meditated, completed a great workout session, or finished up his personal errands, he is ready to help out the next man, but he is his first priority.”
You can justify this by saying everybody else does the same thing, so why shouldn’t you also?
Matthew 22:36-40 – “And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Type #1 is what would happen if you made the choice to love others MORE than yourself. There’s nothing wrong with helping others, but if your priorities are out of whack you’ll burn yourself out trying to please everybody. You can’t take care of others if you don’t take care of yourself.
i enjoyed this article… my only critique is that ‘nice guy 2’ probably isn’t often described as an asshole just by putting his needs first. the ‘asshole’ is a distant-cousin at best to ‘nice guy 2.’
EXCELLENT article! Tony, you nailed it right on the head with this one. Keep up the great writing. Looking forward to more articles from you.
An interesting article. I’m shocked at the hate generated by the comments towards both of these types. Many of you need to ask yourself why you hate your Selfless, Beta brethren? You realize that women say many of the same things that you are saying in your comments? If our Beta brethren can expect to be alienated by both Red-pill men and most of the women in this world, then it should come as no surprise why many Men commit the atrocities they do or submit themselves to degrading philosophies like Feminism.
In my opinion the Selfless man is far more a product of his biology than the Selfish man, in fact I would go as far as to say that the Selfish man is a product of contemporary society.
It was necessary for Men to be Selfless in order for civilization to be built and to thrive. Whether that man was a farmer laboring from dawn to dusk providing food for his family, or a warrior fighting fiercely to protect those he loves. Not only were those Selfless traits, but these traits were rewarded. Wives, children, whole communities appreciated the food, protection, and stability that these Men provided. All Beta men are doing today is going by this old, but defunct playbook, they should not be alienated or hated because of this.
Men became, or desire to become, Selfish because contemporary society has forced them to adapt to a culture that does not reward Selfless behavior. I do not fault Men for this and neither should any of those commenting in the negative. Adaptation is our greatest survival trait.
I’ll finish by reiterating that perpetuating hatred amongst Men (Beta, Alpha, Omega, or otherwise) is the single most destructive tool of Religious Extremism, Feminism, Socialism, really any ism.
I agree about the selfish, selfless and the contemporary idea.
Good response
There’s no reason to be a nice guy in a liberal society though, they would just think they were entitled to your empathy and compassion in the first place
I was definitely a nice guy #1. I constantly put everyone else’s needs ahead of my own. I worked ridiculous hours. When I tried to play the corporate game so I could get ahead, my ex-wife accused me of leaving her with the kids because I wanted to play golf one weekend a month. I would try to romance my wife and find only a cold shoulder. What did all the bowing and scraping get me in the end. Outright depression, a sense of self that was so shot that I couldn’t even be said to have any self-esteem. I was a doormat. The invisible man to my employer and my wife. They knew they would get what they needed, even when they didn’t know why.
Now, after my job and my marriage evaporated in front of me, I am not any sort of a nice guy anymore. I earn more money and get laid more regularly than before. If I work, I demand the actual value of my labor. I help friends. Since I decided to be more upfront with any woman about my desires I find that I always have a few that seem to be just waiting to hop in my bed. I actually like the new me.
One of my friends is a “nice guy” just like you were. He’s absolutely miserable, began depressed and started beating his wife. The doctor gave him meds that made him suicidal. One way to solve the problem I suppse.
I applaud you on the transition. I think everyone reaches a point where they wake up and realize that being the nice guy #1 just does not work if you are a grown up who wants to be successful in what you do. Nice guy #1 might be okay when you are a teenager and need those teacher recommendations but in the real world you have to have a bit of a selfish edge.
In other words, there are insecure nice guys and confident nice guys.
The insecure variety act nice because it’s their default setting. It’s a transaction of sorts with them. They give out ‘niceness’ and expect stuff in return. Nice is not a choice with them, it’s a way of being because any other way of acting is scary with unknown consequences. Insecure nice guys often turn out to be passive aggressive manipulators (they’re basically chicks) because if you’re not nice in return, you broke the contract and offended their fragile ego built on them being “a nice guy”.
Confident nice guys deliberately make a choice to be nice. But they can also be assholes, fighters, warriors, or cold when the moment calls for it. For them niceness comes from a genuine desire to connect with someone after certain criteria are met. The niceness has to be earned, but once it is given, nothing is expected in return. It is enough in itself because it comes from a very giving place. In a way, confident nice guys are less selfish than the insecure type. They’re able to give to themselves as well as to others from a place of fullness. Both people win.
Strong inner game is the journey from the first to the second type.
All I read was…
Nice guy #1: Pushover. Doormat. Yes man. PUNK.
Nice guy#2: Average guy who does what sane people do. Look out for #1.
I don’t worry about being nice anymore. I naturally am, but I will stop concerning myself with anyone who doesn’t return the favor. Life’s too short.
Love your neighbor as yourself. However, you must first love yourself, otherwise, how can you love your neighbor?
If Ayn Rand were writing today, nice guy #2 would be one of her protagonists.
Hey, I can so totally relate to the pic with the guy being led by his tie. I was THAT guy at a party surrounded by and grinding shamlessly against all sorts of ladies.
most important rule when dealing with women is:
1. Don’t care one bit for her approval.
There are very few nice guys. I recall going on retreat to a ranch. The man who runs it was a retired psychologist, it was some team building exercise type thing.
He asked a female there who was part of the group,
do you feel like you are always nice to everybody?
She said yes.
And do you feel unappreciated when you do nice things for others and they do not notice or care?
She said yes.
And you feel they are taking advantage of you being nice?
She said yes.
He points out that usually when you are being nice to someone its for altruistic reasons. When you are being nice to someone to get something in return, its not called being nice, its called being manipulative.
This is what most “nice” people are. They are only doing something “nice” to get something they want, not because it is good to do nice things. and most nice guys are guys who are just manipulative, trying to be nice to the boss, the girl, to get more money or promotion or to get laid.
Women are only attracted to charismatic men, rich and famous men, powerful men, humours men, understanding men who “get it”, but most importantly FUN MEN. At the end of the day, you’ll realize, all women just want a clown or a monkey who will sing and dance and entertain them, which is why if you are boring, you can forget ever get laid unless you are paying for it.
Great article. If we had a lot more nice guys #2 the world would be a better place and we, women, would be in heaven.
I liked this article. Please give me nice guy #2. People who disregard themselves are highly unattractive.