Having recently watched Passengers I have to agree with the reviews, its simply not the best movie. Passengers is a film that almost – almost deals with some very fundamental ideas about humans, sex and our relationships with each other. Unfortunately, these ideas are barely touched on, and I have a strong suspicion as to the reasons why.
The basic premise (spoilers) is that Jim (Chris Pratt) wakes up 90 years early on a 120 year space voyage to another planet due to an on-board malfunction. Everyone else remains in hibernation. Due to various circumstances (which make little sense, but we’ll go with it) he can’t go back to sleep or awaken a member of the crew to help him (being sealed off in a separate compartment behind a huge door).
He is surrounded by every luxury, but with no one to talk to (except various AIs with a Siri-like level of intelligence). He eventually works out the only thing he can really do is awaken any of the other passengers. He finally picks Aurora (Jennifer Lawrence) mostly because, lets face it, she’s hot and he wants to bone her. After a year and 3 weeks of this “Castaway” routine he finally wakes her up.
Initially, he doesn’t tell her, and she has to assume her pod malfunctioned as well. She comes to accept her essential death sentence and after a while the two of them have a bit of a space romance and become lovers. Mostly because they’re two very attractive people, I can believe this part.
Eventually, of course, Aurora figures it all out (the robot bartender lets it slip). Predictably, things turn cold instantly. There’s a few scenes of shouting, her avoiding him, him apologizing. She alternates between ignoring him and physically attacking him (again, quite believable). Later on a whole bunch of stupid stuff happens, culminating in the two of them having to single-handily fix the ship’s fusion reactor.
A heartwarming moment occurs at the end, when they finally figure out a way (not possible earlier) to put only one of them to sleep. Jim nobly offers it to Aurora, but she declines and we fast-forward to a final scene where the other crew and passengers wake up 88 years later and see a nice garden growing in the main lobby, implying the two of them lived their whole lives on the ship, got old and died there.
While I will give credit to the film design (the Avalon is a cool-looking starship) the film could have been infinitely more dramatic. The plot is dull. There are no real surprises and it has all the character depth of the Star Wars prequels.
Should Jim have woken Aurora up?
This question is at the heart of the film. It is almost a spiritual sequel to Castaway. What if you were Tom Hanks on the island but you could actually wish for someone to join you there, though presumably for life and with no chance of escaping?
This concept has actually been explored in mythology before—there is the story of Hades (Greek god of the underworld) kidnapping Zeus’s daughter Persephone and forcing her to live with him in the underworld as his wife. Some reviews have referenced Stockholm Syndrome as well, but I think the dumbest ones are those which have the gall to say the film “encourages a sense of male entitlement.” How dare a man actually do what he wants!
As for Jim’s dilemma, if we’re going to write up a list of pros and cons there’s really just one major reason in favor – because it will benefit him and make him happy and less lonely. This is true of all selfish actions. Very simple.
I’d say there are three reasons against:
- You may be punished later on
- It will negatively affect others
- You may have an internal emotional struggle and regret it regardless
I think the film’s strength is that it effectively removes the first reason. It not only makes the choice for Jim very clear-cut in giving him the opportunity to do something nakedly selfish, but by removing the main argument against it – that of some sort of higher authority preventing him. He’s not just without company on the spaceship – he’s without laws. There’s no one there to deter or punish him. This leaves just the other two reasons.
- It will negatively affect others
Many people will say this is a reason in and of itself, but my response is, so what? Bad things happen to other people all the time. Several thousand Africans probably died of poverty and disease yesterday, yet today I didn’t see anyone in the street shedding any tears.
Here is where you have dumb feminists saying Jim has a “sense of male entitlement.” But what’s inherently wrong with ‘wanting’ something? Isn’t everything driven by wants? The whole global economy is based on people wanting things, up to an including intimacy with others.
No, there’s only one real reason left.
- You may have an internal emotional struggle and regret it regardless
This is the real reason, and its something so simple yet I think society has forgotten it. We don’t care about others just for the sake of it – we care about them because of the way they make us feel.
I like chocolate because it tastes good. That’s really all there is to it. You can’t separate the way you care about something or someone from their function towards you. An emotional attachment has to be earned, not assumed.
This is a very simple concept and yet something that modern feminism and social justice seems to have thrown out the window. To care about others, to treat them as anything more than a random bunch of atoms, there must be a reason.
Not caring about something is the default setting. They have it completely the wrong way around. This is at the heart of the modern left’s faults, and Hollywood reflects this.
Quite simply – If I’m on a spaceship with Jessica Valenti, wearing her “I bathe in male tears” T-shirt and there’s only one escape pod left, why should I give it to her? Cry me a river about male entitlement then.
Yet these people expect kindness to be automatic. That I should automatically care about starving Africans or Muslim refugees or a battered housewife simply because these things are inherently sympathetic. They’ve taught people, especially young women, that they “don’t owe men a thing” and should proceed to act completely selfishly, then decide to criticize this movie about a man acting selfishly.
What the hell does Jim owe Aurora, or anyone else?
No – there is no objective sympathy, only subjective. If I know the Muslim refugee or battered housewife personally, we might be in business, but only then.
Exploring our connections with other people
Tugging on heartstrings: lesson 1
This is the whole meaning behind the concept of ‘love’. Love is an emotional connection so intense that you would literally rather die than stop being with someone. Love is when you would give your life for another person (or even an animal or object). If you have a partner, but probably wouldn’t sacrifice yourself for her, you’re probably just in ‘lust’ not ‘love’. I also think this tells a lie to the whole ‘love at first sight’ thing. No, you’re just in ‘lust at first sight’ – far more common.
This is why modern, non-traditional relationships so often don’t work. A woman might still offer sex, but what else? Where is the emotional attachment between a modern couple that would compel one member to actually sacrifice themselves for the other? Why would I shove Jessica Valenti aside and take the escape pod, yet if it was a quality women – beautiful, empathetic, dutiful, one who’s actually worked to gain my love over an extended period of time, I would probably just nod and say, with no hesitation, ‘take it honey, you know I couldn’t live without you…’
The whole question as to whether you’d wake someone up or not, if you’re in Jim’s shoes, is how emotionally attached you feel to another person or other people. The film could have been a lot more interesting if it slowly stripped away Jim’s sense of morality (that which modern society has imposed upon him so that he’s a better slave) and exposed him, a typical average Joe, for the selfish creatures we humans really are.
Passengers should have been a red pill film
Imagine that Jim wakes Aurora up. She later finds out and refuses to talk to him. At this point he decides “fuck it,” throws her out the airlock, and picks another women to be his Eve instead. This could repeat several times. It could have been a real “descent into darkness” thing. I’ll call this the red pill ending. In fact, the film would have been so much more interesting if it headed in the direction of Pandorum.
Pandorum – like Passengers but actually interesting
This is at the heart of why the movie is so awful and just plain dull – they simply can’t do this. Instead they have to give the blue pill “guy continues to act selflessly for absolutely no reason” ending.
In Jim’s situation – stripped of all human contact, all laws, and all responsibilities, the real answer is very likely that we will be stripped down to the very selfish creatures we all know we are deep down. This is why cannibalism is not uncommon in survival situations, as our desperate bodily needs overcome whatever shallow sense of morality our logical minds have previously seen fit to believe. Here its loneliness rather than food, but its the same principle.
Jim is an emotional cannibal, who, after thinking over the issues at length, I really can’t bring myself to criticize. We’re not machines, we’re not the emotionless robot barkeep. As social animals, we need intimacy like we need food. Society insists on ignoring this realty, like how they ignore the connection where around 75% of suicides are connected to a breakup. Does a women (or anyone for that matter) ‘murder’ a man by repeatedly ignoring him and mistreating him emotionally?
Yes, I think it is perfectly possible.
Hollywood however, simply cannot bring itself to embrace this conclusion. Instead it dances around it for two hours before events somehow work out and Jim and Aurora come to live happily ever after.
Passengers is a perfect example of political correctness ruining films. Any story that deeply explores human nature is probably going to have to conclude that we are fundamentally selfish creatures. Selfishness is at the root of morality. Its the first building block, the cornerstone around which everything else lies. Its not ‘how do you justify selfishness’ but ‘how do you justify not being selfish?
So of course Passengers sucked. On the big screen, people just aren’t allowed to be people anymore.
Read More: US Government Goes Full Retard And Backs War Draft For Women
I went to a screening of this movie, except for the ending it was pretty solid. Lawrence played a surprisingly honest take of how women actually are (instead of her usual “strong” fighter women schtick) and Pratt played the kind of man most men want to be (strong and quiet yet persuasive and somewhat cocky).
Watching the trailers I thought this would be another cheesy space movie with the stereotypical futuristic gender harmony. Instead it went in an interesting direction with Pratt’s delimma to wake her up to quell the soul wrenching loneliness he was experiencing. Wish the movie would have explored more into him rebuilding the relationship after she found out he woke her up though, that’s where the movie derailed.
“Imagine that Jim wakes Aurora up. She later finds out and refuses to
talk to him. At this point he decides “fuck it,” throws her out the
airlock, and picks another women to be his Eve instead.”
So murder is red pill? Didn’t know that.
Tongue-in-cheek, meet Thomas.
Thomas, Tongue-in-cheek.
Be careful that the tongue doesn’t wander to other places!
Yeah, but he did have a point about the movie going in a darker direction if there’s conflict between the two. Wouldn’t even need to be a killing.
How about she just can’t stand him anymore, they live separately on the huge ship. He deeply regrets waking her, but still can’t stand the loneliness, he won’t (or she somehow prevents him) waking someone else– have him either commit suicide or go insane talking to imaginary people.
She now ends up facing the same situation in a year or two herself. She starts realizing she’s not just lonely but starting to lose her hold on reality? Does she wake someone? Does she kill herself?
Then she discovers the Hitachi in someones personal baggage….
That could have been an interesting take as well- pilfering of personal items and enjoying them. I mean, you’re gonna wake someone up so they spend their life on the ship– would you draw the line at not perusing through and using other folks stuff?
There was no indication it was humourously intended…..
“Take one element of a simple story and blow it waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion”
One of three sources of humor, as paraphrased from the late great George Carlin.
That doesn’t apply to this article though. He meant when you make fun of a detail in a story/event, not a paragraph in an article that otherwise seems serious.
It does apply, because the extreme nature of that paragraph is presented as an absurd counterpoint to the story in question.
I don’t read it that way at all.
Well let’s just all stop and pile on the author because one person has a … “different” form of reading comprehension than the rest of us.
I mean, we can’t have people being offended. Oh no. Can’t have that!
😉
I’m not offended, I just think it’s a retarded article. You would have to involve child molesters to offend me. But please explain, how should you comprehend that? Where is the humour everyone alludes too?
You want me to … explain humor… that you’re not going to get anyway? Thanks, I think I’ll pass. 😀
To use a phrase I picked up from the South: God love ya, honey! 🙂
There is no humour in that paragraph.
But there’s plenty in this conversation! 🙂
Dude, I’m not the one looking ridiculous, you can’t even argue for/explain what you find so humorous.
Hah, well here’s a clue, it’s not the article. 🙂
Knowing the horrible truth about the cosmos is red pill. How you respond to that truth is another matter. I chose religion (Christ). Some stick with the horror (nihilists). Some just check out (suicide/murder). Some lie to themselves and deny truth (blue pill).
That interesting thing about morality, that all societies seem to have and defies evolutions basis of acting in self-preservation, it isn’t about how we act, it is about how we think we ought to act.
Sorry to bother you with this question, but what is it about Christ(I mean the person, not the religion) that made you resonate with him?
At first it was the philosophical power over other philosophies I’d studied. (Intellectual supremacy)
Then when I started focusing on Christian philosophy I was around his followers and I saw the power he had in their lives. (Material supremacy)
Then I fully embraced the nihilist truth about our absurd cosmos which led me to finally accept the plausibility of miracles and a super-nature. (Denial of self and ego)
Then I tried praying, and I got an answer from him, a “religious experience” so to speak. I was healed of a horrible disease. (Personal transformation)
All of this flows from his teachings and work as described by his followers and contemporaries. By “his” I mean him as a man, and in full agreement with his teachings that he is one with the father, and in agreement with his teachings on fate/destiny/sovereignty (“he” is in everything and everything is in him, he is working out all things. )
Thanks for the elaborate answer. The reason I asked is because years ago most men-destined websites were about pua and sexual tourism.
But as time went by I’ve seen this sudden transition towards traditionalism and ultimately christianity.
I am not surprised by your answer, cause I’ve met plenty of people that had “religious experiences”, I also know a few introvertes(myself included) that
had a nihilistic worldview that know gravitate towards christianity(I actually believe Christ is all about embracing the nihilistic truth).
The Old Testament is very nihilist in this way: without God, everyone does what is right in their own eyes, and there is no right or wrong, nothing is off limits. We are but dust.
As a Calvinist, a divine command theorist, it seems to me that the New Testament is also nihilist in this way: Without the teachings and commands of God, we are dead in our sins with no hope. He is our only hope We are told that we must put ourselves to death and pick up the cross (Jesus teaching in Matthew 16), and that we are “born again” (Jesus talking to Nicodemus in John 3.)
When I reflect on what I’ve learned from philosophy (Zeno’s Arrow) and science (dual property of light) I must admit that we live in a miraculous, dream like creation. Why not go with the theory that the dream we live in is a dream of God’s?
“we must put ourselves to death and pick up the cross”.EXACTLY!!!
Jesus is a symbol of loss, of sacrifice, He is the lamb.(Pisces)
Adam betrayed God, now his male descendants must do their duty(pick up the cross) find the courage to put themselves to death knowing that while still on the material plane, betrayel is inevitable.
His opposite, Virgin Mary is a symbol of duty and chastity.(Virgo)
Eve tempted Adam, now her female descendants must learn to support men in their strenuous journey, offering them support when they lose hope, while rejecting worldly pleasures.
Seems to me something written by a sociopath.
The truth is both horrifying and maddened. Maddening. If you learn it without denial, you break. You die.
Maybe you be “born again in The Spirit.”
“There are two possibilities, one that we are alone in the universe, and one that we are not. Both are equally frightening.”
or something like that.
Disingenuous. One author does not represent the bulk of the red pill. Different authors have different perspectives. Only the Left sees things in monotone monolithic “one voice speaks for all” ways. We’re different than that. There are good things, and bad things, and we toss them around and discuss them as men with intelligence.
This ain’t no dogma chamber, hoss.
If I had said any such thing your post would have been warranted. But I didn’t so…..
Yeah, you did.
You presume that the author is expressing “red pill” with that specific item, as in, represents red pill thought.
Scroll bars – they’re a great thing!
I presume that he is expressing his red pill thought yes….since it’s his article.
I never assumed he was a representative of everyone.
That’s another try at worming out. You expressed it as a general statement as if it reflected red pill on the whole.
Stop with the wiggle room Leftist lawyering, hoss. You fucked up, own it and move forward. No hard feelings.
No lol, I was basically just writing that my idea of red pill doesn’t include murder. Nowhere did I state that this person is a spokesman for any group.
That does seem like a waste. With some time in solitary confinement, she will come around.
As will the others.
You make your own laws in that situation and can have a harem if you wish.
Live in luxury, take your pick of women(never allow them to spend time together). When one grows too old, toss her out the airlock and replace her with a younger model as you grow old.
I suppose in this kind of situation, red/blue pill concept goes out the airlock as well…or maybe it’s the ultimate in extreme red pill.
We already know one of the “beds” could be fixed though, so once she got old he could just put her to sleep and wake up another one lol. No need for murder 😉
I guess it depends on how one’s morals eroded in the situation and how god like one might start to think of oneself.
So one can be good and commit murder lol?
You saying your morals could erode that far just for sex? Murder lol?
I would just go celibate rather than murdering for sex.
I never even implied one could be good and commit murder.
I did not say my morals could erode that far for sex.
I was proposing a possibility that I thought maybe we could have a discussion about instead you decided to do a libtard response on me.
So you wouldn’t have woken anyone up? Just stay on the spaceship for decades, getting up, washing your junk, eating, drinking, a bit of inane entertainment, followed by a quick wank and then sleep? Repeat for the next forty or fifty years?
Not waking anyone up and murder are two different things are they not?
I’m not a liberal, so I could never give you a liberal response. And from your sentence before you seemed to suggest your morals could erode that far, sorry if I got it wrong.
By liberal response I meant the “oh so you mean” before twisting what was written.
So why doesn’t this really advanced society have the technology for radical life extension?
Because no one would have bought a woman inventing it all by herself, with no help from any man.
Why do you assume that it would?
Technology doesn’t progress as a bulk thing. Some technologies take off, others lag. In the 1960’s we were certain that we’d all be aboard near light speed aircraft and living on Mars, while computers would be those punch card things from Star Trek. Turns out, the opposite happened.
Imagine that the woman would have woken up first. She would never have debated waking another person up… she would have woken EVERYONE up so they could all share in her misery and give her attention.
The man spent a year alone and finally broke down and woke up one girl. The girl would have spent about 30 seconds alone before punching even “WAKE” button she saw.
You know the reason they chose the male character as the one to wake up accidentally was to avoid being attacked for portraying a female character as anything less than virtuous and/or with typical weakness of facing loneliness. Would have been accused of making her a ‘cat lady’ in space who can’t stand to be alone …blah, blah, blah…
I was thinking watching the film that he should have woken up someone who might be grateful for the “upgrade”, so to speak. The protagonist had largely “hacked” the ship, a luxury liner. It wasn’t a bad life. Waking up an ambitious career woman was cruel to her and possibly unnecessary. Pick a pleasant woman instead who was fleeing an overcrowded Earth such as himself and facing a lifetime of struggle on a colony world and take her on a shopping trip.
I believe the movie was based on a book, so assumed they went with what was in the book, but Yep there is no way I could see this movie being green lit by the studio execs if the roles were reversed and auroa woke up first and then made the selfish decision to wake up someone else so she wouldn’t be lonely. Cant have the male having the upperhand on virtuousness.
I would have liked to have seen the movie have a more thought provoking ending, where Jim dies from the fusion reactor exhaust blast (I doubt the space suits were built to handle nuclear reaction temps) and she is left with the same dilemma he had in spending the next 60-70 yrs on your own.The ending would be her waking someone else up for her selfish needs just like Jim did.
Hell yeah
Yes I can see that scene in my minds eye:
Jennifer looks over the crew one by one, searching for a companion…
Pod 1, Lisa the anthropologist. Lisa is smart, pretty, and… fuck that Bitch Lisa. Next.
Pod 2, The statistician. He is smart, young, overweight, balding, and not funny. What’s his name again? Bart? Brandt? Brett? Something.
Pod 3, Jennifer is young, super smart, strong, independent, healthy at any weight, confident… no wait, that pod is empty, that’s me, teehee!
Pod 4, Ron the mechanic. Ron is tall, handsome, sometimes violent, cares more about machines than people. *IMMEDIATELY PRESSES BUTTON ON POD 4*
^’Passengers’ Rejected Script No.159.
Reason for rejection: Too damned honest. Won’t make money from the wimminz.
Pod 4…. and gay. That would be a fun little twist to the movie…
No, it would be utterly predictable and in line with every other Hollywood flick in which the handsome handy guy always turns out to be a fag.
Nobody is gay in space.
Would be funny seeing the strong independent female being ignored at the primary level.
Space Fags!
why do I see this as a tag line on a movie poster….
Space Fags with Space Herpes!
Nice
Milo and Stacy are trapped, the only people awake in a starship hurling through the void. She woke him because he was gay, and she thought she’d be safe.
BUT NO ONE IS GAY IN SPACE.
*cue Inception bass blast*
Holy shit I want Passengers 2 with Ron the gay mechanic that would be fucking awesome. Watch her go to wake up a second man and Ron stops her because he loves men more than her and also because he is the only gay guy in board so if he can’t have a partner then she can’t either. You could make a TV serial out if it.
In today’s world, Jennifer would have even more reason than Jim to pick more than one companion.
Although I think the author misses the mark a bit.
He had no right to make that decision for her. He basically chose her whole life for her and against her express wishes.
If she had done the same it would have been just as wrong.
It’s not like the lifeboat because not helping someone when you have limited options yourself is different than condemning someone to prison basically.
Says who?
What if she’d made a decision and did stupid shit and acted like a modern cunt? What then?
Good question, ultimately I would probably have to go with, in my opinion, God.
She presumably volunteered/paid money for/etc for a product/end result and Chris Pratts character’s took that away. It didn’t belong to him, he took it, he’s a thief and a liar.
If it was done to me I’d scream blue murder.
But you’d be alive.
Sometimes, when you know that life and death is in play, or the safety and well being of others comes into view, or you know that the person will ultimately self destruct, you realize that you have to make the hard call on her behalf (or his, if he’s a kid or is out of his mind). Fuck agency and “her feelings” and “what she paid for” in that circumstance.
Well, sort of, I broadly agree with you but she wasn’t in any danger if I understand correctly. To me that changes everything. If I did misunderstand and she was in danger then I’m just wrong.
Once he got tired of her bitching, which he inevitably would, out the airlock with her and wake up the second hottest one.
Be honest with yourself. What are the chances that she wouldn’t have hit that button. A girl. Alone. On a giant empty starship, slowly going insane.
No, she would have hit the button and no one would have blamed her. Which of course means it would have been perfectly OK for me or you to do the same thing.
The line is drawn when it comes to someone vital to the rest of the passengers. You can hit a few buttons but only as many as are necessary for your survival without impacting the survival of the others.
That’s one moral argument I could make. The other moral argument is: hit no buttons whatsoever.
Sure and I understand why he did what he did, he’s not evil so much as just wrong.
Or just wake up an engineer that fixes that shit in 1 hour and puts everyone back to sleep.
I would say not evil, just driven crazy, and in a moment of weakness breaks down. I’ve seen studies on solitary confinement. There’s a reason it is considered a punishment. I think CastAway did an excellent job. Just look at the reaction Tom Hanks had towards losing a volley ball he had to personify to keep from killing himself.
That was addressed in the film where he didn’t have access to that portion of the ship where the crew members were in stasis.
Few people would disagree with you but that’s not the point. The protagonist explores that moral issue at length.
Just think of it as a post birth long term abortion – feminists could get behind that.
Hehe
You are conflating two different issues. The first is, if a person should wake up another person in that situation, essentially taking away the future they expected and condemning them to living with you for the rest of their days stuck on this space ship. Whether doing that is morally right or wrong is a legitimate question for debate.
But it has nothing to do with sex/gender, male privilege or whatever. The article makes the point that feminists are upset that it showed the male character’s “male privilege” to wake her up. So then the issue becomes how would a male more likely respond in that situation versus how would a female more likely respond.
According to the article, the guy spent a year+ going crazy alone before he finally broke down and woke up one female to have a companion. I haven’t seen the movie so I have to kind of guess, but I assume he realized that waking someone up would condemn them to his fate as well, and so he tried to accept this bad situation and live alone as long as he could before eventually wearing down.
My comment was that no woman would put herself through any of that. A woman would start waking up as many people as she could as soon as possible to help HER and fix HER situation, without any regard to the fact that she was putting them into the same situation with her.
A woman would go through absolutely ZERO self-reflection or recognition of what effects her actions might have on the others. She’d just be mashing button, screaming for help.
No, the author doesn’t miss the mark. This was the point of the film and a good hour or so is spent with the protagonist struggling with that moral dilemma and the author points out that the issue of “rights” is moot in this point. At least legally. He’s going to Die in space. So what can society do to him?
In today’s nomenclature, it would be the “woke” button
She would wake up ALL the men so they would fight over her to feed her ego! Most of the men would die but she wouldn’t care cause she is with the alpha.
Orbiters in Space.
Destination: Beta Centauri.
omg i can’t believe i couldn’t accurately figure out what a woman would do in that situation, but you did. Bravo.
I disagree…I think if a modern western woman was the first to have awoke, she would only wake up the males so she could be part of a never ending gang-bang…that whore.
Folks, keep this in mind: This guy’s bio was a specific one: Smart enough to be able to wake other passengers up but not technical enough to hack the software for the ship to wake up the crew. Most of the passengers lacked the technical skills to wake others up.
It’s more likely she might have lost her temper and smashed some of the pods out of frustration and anger or just killed herself. In many ways, passengers is an allegory for how this is happening in post feminist America where career women are miserable that few of the men live up to their elevated standards and go on shopping trips to anesthesize themselves against their loneliness.
Heck, the fate Lawrence’s character was condemned to would be considered paradise by many lower class women: A handsome guy with an effectively unlimited charge card for life.
She’d have only woken her cat up and let the man die.
Nailed it.
And I think that says a lot about the differences between the sexes, and could be extended to the different between conservatives and leftists. Men internalize a problem and take the responsibility for fixing it upon themselves. Women view their problems in the aggregate. In the marches, it’s always for someone else, in another state, and if she has a problem it’s everyone’s problem. As for the man in Passengers, I don’t think it was ‘beta’ to not toss her out and get a new woman. He used her to help solve his problem, which had made him suicidal, and after she learned the truth of her reanimation he was responsible to himself and her for making it right. Also lost on many reviewers/critics is if he didn’t wake her up, the events leading to fixing the reactor would have never occurred and everyone on the ship would have died anyway. That was the third step of the redemption of the antagonist. 1st was rebuilding himself after experiencing his extreme low alone, second was justifying waking her up into a death sentence, and third is saving the community.
Jack the ship and run it into earth, am I the only one who sees this clearly ?
“Its not ‘how do you justify selfishness’ but ‘how do you justify not being selfish?”
Yep– a lot of good movies are an exploration of why a hero makes the noble choice, even when it isn’t in their best interest. Is self-sacrifice noble or just stupid?
If you’ve never read “The Cold Equations” it’s a pretty good Sci-Fi short story, I think the copyright has expired so you can probably find it online. They made a movie out of it which was horrible because it went the PC route as well, bailing on the foundational premise of the story.
The film’s controversy is based on the fact that the woman in the end decides to follow her man.
While I did like Pandorum, I believe that passengers should not have followed a similar path. The reason is one: This movie really shows what is required for modern women to become good again. CUT THEM OFF OF ALL POSSIBLE CHOICE!!!
In other words: a higher authority willing to enforce discipline and punishment and a world who doesn’t condemn those two values. Modern women do whatever the fuck they want simply because they can, there is no authority to keep them in check.
The funny thing about modern women who are like this, and they are like this, from the perspective of a single guy is that the very second you introduce authority to them and don’t flinch from their initial, culturally programmed, reaction they turn into jello. They absolutely crave a man with the authority to keep them in check.
Exactly. I think its some sort of (((freudian))) thing. They are spoiled children making a mess around but deep inside they are just looking for 1) attention , and 2) a daddy willing to spank them. When they find find their daddy who enforce discipline, they simply submit; and they are happy in their submission.
I apply this with every girl, every time and everywhere. I am the authority, I do what I want to do and the girl do what I tell her to do. Period. End of story. I always told them a phrase: “tu no te mandas sola”, the translation is difficult, but its something like “you don’t command yourself”.
exactly. I always laugh when I see jokes about how hard it is to talk to a woman about where you are going to eat…yuk yuk yuk very funny but I think “who the fuck gives a woman a choice” I have picked every restaurant, I order food, I even pick the drinks. Her job is to be pretty and pleasant, my job is to make choices…and this is first date material….and every single one of them absolutely loves it.
There was a spell for a while where we were making ends meet, but barely. The wife wanted to get new carpet, when we had no real savings outside of the ol’ retirement 401k. She started trying every “sales” technique under the roof to get me to agree to new carpet (we really didn’t need it, she just “wanted” something new…sigh), and I wouldn’t budge. Ends up she’s sitting across from the table from me giving it one last try.
I say firmly “No, not happening”.
She gives me the pouty “And I suppose that’s all there is to it isn’t it? You say no and my opinion doesn’t mean anything!”
Here’s the shit test men. The one most will probably fail.
Most guys: “No honey, your opinon matters, you know I love you, look, maybe we can find a compromise that will make you happy? I love you so much sweety, you know I don’t want you to be unhappy…” *gag*
My answer: “That’s right, your opinion doesn’t matter. Look, we’re barely making ends meet, I’m not sacrificing our retirement and there is absolutely no justification known for adding more debt when we can barely pay what we owe now and still eat. No. Period. When we’re doing better we can review the topic, until then, no, your opinion doesn’t figure into this at all because frankly you’re being irrational.”
She didn’t say anything, just sat there with a shocked look on her face. Not a “Fuck you!” shock, more the surprised kind of look you see when you catch somebody completely off guard. Her one word answer? “OK”
Then she got up and asked me what I wanted for dinner and life went on. No “punishment”, no “in the doghouse”, no “if mamma ain’t happy ain’t nobody happy” and none of that other bullshit that betas think will happen if they dare to find their testicles.
A bit on Freud from a personal contact, who studied psychoanalysis and came to regret it: It is all fake and psychologists that respect themselves stay far away from it. Freud basically was an erotomaniac who saw something naughty everywhere and in everyone and in everything. He maniacally projected this to anyone! Even worse from scientific standards he never really tested what he said, he just took money from troubled rich-people that were succumbing to lunacy from various neuroses. Even worse he cured an insignifficant amount of people, who many believe would have been cured even if they would have never visited him! In the end psychoanalysis is ONLY a SUPERB propaganda tool that can be aimed to anyone, only because people still believe it valid. If though it was right no one would be engaging in coitus…
THAT’S HARDCORE RED-PILL TRUTH HERE !!!!!!
To be honest I do not think I could do it in a marriage situation. All of my experience comes from women who I could walk away from while calling another one on the way out. You obviously nailed this shit test very well.
This confirms my suspicion. I always suspected he was a charlatan in the spirit of a fortune teller with celebrity clients…
And one who sees diks in everything….
he also had a crush on a relative of his I am not sure if that was his aunt, sister or female cousin…
WHAT THE FUK?!!?!?!?
Yeah, he also attributed the worship of the madonna (the virgin Mary for us) to a syndrome in which a child falls in love with his parent of the opposite sex. The Oedipus syndrome. He also said that everybody suffered from it… and forgot it…. all that because he DID suffer from it when he was a child.
Also when he could not pinpoint what sexual fantasy his clients suppressed, he said that they either saw their parents have sex and forgot it or that they were raped by their parents… and forgot it he used to say the last so much that even his pupils told him to limit it. Through that we have the hysteria concerning child rape in the West.
Last but not least his most known client who lived all his life entering mental institutions with some brief moments of sanity was seeing him only because he liked his rhetoric skills. He didn’t even believe the story he said of why he had his neurosis. That once he saw his parents having sex.
A friend of mine is a Psychologist with M.A in Clinical Psychology. He more or less share my conceptions (not a Kamerad, but close), and we talk a lot about psychology, psychoanalysis, politics, etc, etc. Of course Freud was a perv who based a whole model of analysis in sex and sexual desires; and most of his theories/ideas/explanations are just rubbish, but now and then he hit the nail.
The first masculine role for a woman is her father. He is the authority, but he is also a man, and women tend to look for the positive (and negative) traits of her father in every man; this is not because they unconsciously want to have sex with him (as Freud said) but because of the conditions of rearing, etc, etc, etc. Now, most modern woman, due to x or y reason, lack of father figure; so its only logical that 1) they have a serious lack of discipline, and 2) they are searching, this time unconsciously, for this father figure and 3) they will submit to them because of the lack of father figure in their childhood.
I wanted kids, and came from a really strong patriarchal family so I had a lot of observational learning growing up. Watching my grandfather swat away my grandmother’s shit tests with his jovial manner or, on occasion, firm directness, was to study a grand master working in his natural medium.
A better perspective is the Jungian one. He is flawed but he is more close than Freud. The reason is with whatever Freud nailed there is always a but that follows.
I see the average youtube astrologer as a fraud. To me guys like Freud and Jung had an important historical role in abolishing the occultist current that haunted the upper class of the 19th century Western Europe.
Seems to me like they simply replaced one silly nonsensical addiction with another equally silly nonsensical addiction. Yesteryear people were all about occult forces inhabiting the world, today everybody is all about everything being rooted in some strange invisible psychological reason.
While Jung really has many good points (the Persona and Shadow theory and the Archetypes) Freud was a disaster, one occultism got switched with another one that made the advancements of the left over the upper classes possible in the first place.
see my two grandfathers took decidedly different paths. My maternal grandfather, whose epitaph is Gentleman Farmer, basically was just very docile. Not docile in the modern effeminate way, he was just a gentle soul, a doo gooder and his wife was very, very, very old fashioned…..she (my grandmother) is still alive and I am hard pressed to imagine her not cleaning or cooking something. She was the kind of woman who called her husband sir and I am fairly sure she never once left the house without either her husband or, later in life, one of her adult children…like I honestly do not think ever once. On the other hand, my paternal grandfather kept his wife in florida and knocked her up every two years like clockwork for 14 straight years but he lived in new York, would visit on the weekends but mostly to play golf. His approach to marriage “give them a check book and don’t ask questions”
His line about the children to my grandmother “they are yours. tell me if they need money”
Both of these methods could be very successful with the right partner while different from your, also successful, method. I think the wanting children is really the keystone. If you want something bad enough you can figure out how to do it right. If I was shit tested by a girl the way you were by your wife I would just leave her. If I was married most likely I would just murder her rather than argue
We’ve talked offline about this before. I like the challenge sometimes. I don’t go looking for it, but batting away shit tests is something I’m pretty good at doing. After a while I’m thinking “This is it? This is their natural strength, and this is all they have?” Being naturally fast on my feet when it comes to language and conversation and humor, I’ve yet to meet a woman that I couldn’t either charm into submission or otherwise present something to her that had her more or less left in a state of shock and awe. This is a great skill for marriage and for having really hot strong willed girlfriends, but it probably wouldn’t work well for casual dating where you don’t really invest more than twenty bucks and a car ride to get laid (the stern part I mean, the humor always plays well).
Yup and I am very similar. Doing this with really hot and strong willed girls comes very natural to me. I could do it in my sleep. Something about the thought (though admittedly I’ve never tried) of doing this with a woman who could (even if she wasn’t the type to actually do it) say “ok, bend over here comes the divorce attorney” is terrifying. Also, at some point having a wife is like raising a child (as your analogy clearly shows) and like raising a child can be both frustrating and rewarding…but that reward never appealed to me. It isn’t the act of charming a woman or dealing with shit tests which get increasingly playful and fun dating, it is the inextricable bond of marriage that is placed on top of all that that frightens the hell out of me.
You know what? If she leaves, she leaves. My shit is cut in half, maybe more, but then it’s over. I never let that even come into play though I knew about it for most of my life. Maybe it’s that lack of fear that backs up my attitude, where most guys would try bravado but would radiate “Oh please don’t divorce me” or something? Material things are replaceable. I watched my father recover nicely from a divorce where he got rooked hard and today he’s powers of ten more successful than my mother who got the lion’s share. Take most of my shit, ok, whatever, I’ll work on a dock in Mexico somewhere as a fishing charter guy or deck hand for a while and ten years later I’m doing better than I am today. Fuck it. Heh.
I’m not that familiar with Jung; I have his memories and a book of excerpts (haven’t had the time to read those yet), know a little about his concept of Animus/Anima and Collective Unconscious, but nothing more. Ironically, I’m more familiar with (((Freud))).
Her leaving is one thing I guess, you can buy that out. Her staying….hahaha, that would be the worst lol. I don’t know, might just be the years of habit have made me stubborn but the idea of coming home to a woman, even if she is in a terrific blowjoby mood, is just deplorable to me and the idea of coming home to one that is even slightly in a bad mood, even if it is for a legitimate reason, would be the end of things for me.
It is quite funny now that you mention it. In fact what you need to read of Jung is the archetypes of collective unconscious and you ‘ll be fine.
He was fucking his daughter….fucking perv.
You know, she’s almost never in a bad mood. She has this goofy, fun vibe about her that drives the kids crazy. If anything, her emotions swing between silly happy to externally cheerful to, if it’s some special event, kind of misty eyed girly weepy about “happy” things (kid graduating, etc). I can tell you for a fact that you’d go crazy trying to figure out when she was going to get crazy eyes and pull out a long knife and stab you in the chest.
My son used to complain about it but I told him that if he’s going to spend a lot of his life with somebody, better somebody that is happy and nearly goofy as a rule, than some broody, easily triggered bitter or emotionally dead person. He appreciates that now (his current squeeze, whose picture you have seen, is kind of goofy acting too in a happy feminine energy kind of way).
The few times she’s really gotten in a bad mood was during pregnancies. I had a yard to mow, so it was easy to just walk out and cut the grass and let her stew for a while. The moods generally passed pretty quickly.
Or he could read the red book and loose his mind
….
So she won’t remember it!
Honestly I am amazed that I missed that! It was the natural conclusion of his fascination with pederasty!
It’s the jewish disease.(see Woody Allen)
but that is just it, she is there. There is no mood so good, no joy so great that I would ever sacrifice even a single night of coming home alone for. I am pretty sure that if I had a kid I would drown it the first moment it cried. I have always said that the greatest act of altruism I ever committed was not procreating. I am a moody enough fucker myself. lol.
Exactly. Due to their high levels of endogamy, incest is only the logical conclusion.
This is interesting. I cant last a few months with a woman before I get sick of the drama. I have so many personal hobbies and interests. A relationship really feels like a full time job. So I bail.
Maybe its a form of recreation for some men. I just cant hack it.
Same here. I always thought something was wrong with me though.
Good shit! So true.
Fucking gold
Jung was for real. (((Freud))), not at all.
How is that logical? That makes no fucking sense.
“Lawyer” my ass.
This is wisdom, Jeff. Plus, I read that the amount of sex in a marriage is dependent on the woman’s mood, and a girl that is on the happy, goofy, wondrous about the world kind wants sex a lot more than the moody bitch kind.
I must admit that I want to buy that book, and read it. Though Jung was a troubled guy, by far far more stable and moral than Freud but still a bit loony, his general work can only be understood as constructive. The red book though is not on that general work. One could read it but only if he has a partial interest in Theology. In fact it is a firm belief of mine that any of Jung’s ideas are crucial to understanding theology… since Christian theology did have several ideas pretty close to his. For example you can substitute demon for Shadow and Angel with Persona understanding that respectively they were embodiments of sin and virtue, while the Jungian equivalents represent negative and positive characters.
I’ve found the book to be very nietzschean. The I persona goes on a journey in which he will reject the archetypes of the past Ammonius(sage archetype, christianity) and the Red One(jester archetype, paganism), also he will take the path of the cross from which he will ultimately receive the gift(rod in the book) of magic from Solomon(magician archetype). My take on magic is that it represents an opening of the mind(third eye, raising the kundalini serpent) that goes beyond rationality(right and wrong) in which one becomes a child where everything is possible again(can’t remember the exact quote from the book: magic is everything that the mind does not perceive as being possible). He actually wins his soul back again from the gods(destiny, planets) by relinquishing his power to his son(birth and rebirth).
I actually believe nazis were destined to appear in Germany even if the jewish problem never existed. There was this pervasive image in the minds of germans, especially german philosophers(Nietzche, Jung, Junger, Schopenhauer) that the current form of christianity was that of a castrated God. And because of that, they saw jews as someone that mocked them for their emasculated state, the same way as muslims and other minorities mock europeans now.
Actually modern Christianity, with some exceptions on the Eastern Orthodox Churched, the Greek one not included, is a castrated religion, specifically protestantism which is a secularized version of the real thing, hence it cannot be even more castrated. Protestantism also was the first denomination to completely ponder on women, for which fact the book “the masculinity of Christ” was written as a protest against and spoke for more traditional form of Christianity. Another interesting fact in the beginning of the previous century English Theologians used to abandon Protestantism and ascribe to Catholicism, which still has some of the most traditionalist worshippers even if it’s institutions got entried. Today prominent English Theologians move to be part of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Actually nationalist phenomena in Europe would have appeared nonetheless as liberal democracy was failling even from the beggining of the previous century, being unable to stop the rise of communism and Skypish meddling inside most of these countries. Today if anything equivalent does not happen soon the whole of Europe and the rest of the civilized world I might add will be done for. In short today only savages f*ck.
You just got me even more interested on the Red Book, I have an interest in the occult as much as my Theological beliefs and my Christian faith would permit it.
Freud was a fake that I think he did believe what he preached but more due to extreme projection. Of course having his name echo is one more reason why his ramblings are considered by most people as correct.
The trick is to avoid the high drama types. My wife has her moments, but generally she’s very laid back, cheerful, sociable and accommodating. You’ll always get some level of drama with a woman but she keeps it to a minimum more often than not.
I also have an interest in the occult. To me it wasn’t german philosophy, ancient greek philosophy not even the migrant rapes that replaced my complacent stance on life with a right-leaning view(bordering extremism).
It was actually this small book about how to use astrology in order to recognise a saint’s chart. It was about a pilgrim that traveled in all of India and met with its greatest 20th century saints. The book was fairly good, even if the translation was horendous, but there was this small bit in the book about western world which really fucked me up. He said that all those gurus that came here were either fakes or even if they had some spiritual knowledge they didn’t actually impart it with the foreigners. The reason they came here was so that they get spoiled with riches and women cause apparently that was their dharma.
He said that Western Europe and Usa were an utopia and their role was to spoil the blacks and browns of the world that have a good dharma. And our role as “western men” was to keep this society going for them.
That’s when I said to myself that I rather nuke the planet than live as a drone rat for the foreigners and the leftist burgeois.
For me on the other hand what made me an rightist, with some quite extremist views was a combination of Plato and Rousseau. Understand here, that me being Greek, means that I rose up in a very democratic culture in which democracy is king and something like a god that no one can have any argument against. When I read Plato’s Republic, I found that he was against that system, his arguments stood but it did trouble me. Then I read Rousseau’s the social contract, it was bad and made next to no sense, as the book if cut in two the halves would contradict each other, it was so obvious that he either said that his writings should be understood as-a-whole and (that had me laughing) that the language had so many deficiencies that it couldn’t hold to what he wanted to express!
From that day on… I am RWDS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njm4qj_VSE8
The migrant crisis simply put confirmed what I was believing in, the MSM acting as it acts confirmed it even more, the liberals refusing to see reality once more, affirmed my beliefs once more. What you read, kind sir, on that bit is what is known as the clash of civilizations. The book by huntinghton is very good to understand the modern situation…. even if bourgeois and one may say mainstream (although today no one would have published it). Still it is just a teeny weeny tiny little bit of the knowledge of the West.
You are my hero…I aspire to deal with my wife like that. Wow. Cool!
“Blowjoby mood”…Shakespeare, eat your heart out!
Dude, that’s exactly what I’ve recently found out – at 47. I’m new here. At first, i thought this site was a silly “He-man Woman haters Club” type-thing by some of the attitudes, but most observations here are spot-on.
I’ve always been “conservative”, yet generous with women, particularly my wife of 22 years. The emotional basket case walked all over me. I stayed married long enough to fulfill my fatherly duty of raising my daughter, then jetted.
Divorced 3 years. With a girlfriend for 2-1/2. I’m using my “conservative/traditional” approach to the relationship with her – and her 11 year-old daughter – but without the “generosity”. If you want something from me, you have to earn it. Giving is a two-way street. I sense a level of respect I’ve never experienced before.
Right on, man.
Most modern American women would put you in the same category as a wife-beater for saying that.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I’m finding my balls like that now (see my post above), and it feels pretty damn good.
First let me say welcome to this side of freedom. Good work on doing right by the kids, but now it is time to enjoy what life has to offer.
The funny thing about the whole he man woman haters club thing is that most of the men here do not hate women (some women, yes, but not women in general). It is actually quite the contrary. It seems that because of the way we are conditioned to think and also because sometimes we joke around a little bit, but in the end I think most of us really love women…they are soft and bumpy and squeak when you fuck them and they smell nice…what isn’t to like? But women are bouncing around the world with this idea of what they are supposed to like which matches up to an idea that guys are bouncing around with about how they are supposed to be and everyone is pretending everything is fine but in their souls they are deeply unfulfilled. Tell a woman something firm and demanding, take charge, in a nut shell….be a fucking man the way we were brought up to be (I am only a couple years younger than you). There will be a little innate backlash for an instant but once it is done they will, through the very act of you being a man, turn into what a woman should be…all soft and cooing and wonderful.
Many guys here, myself included, believe that women are not the ones to blame for the sorry state of femininity found today. Rather, the blame is with the men who are total fucking pussy jerkfaces. Women will test limits and be cuntish. That is their nature. That isn’t the problem though, the problem is the men who continually back down.
Again, welcome to your second life!
Thanks, man. I’ve been lurking a while here. You’re a quality poster.
That’s an accurate description of the female nature – and yes, the men to blame are the ones who believe what they’re told by control-freak cultural engineers on how they behave, rather than listening to their primal, innate instincts. Same goes for the women…
I found that “voice within” when I removed myself as much as I could from society for a while (I’m the guy who built the “upside-down cabin”) and read as much stoic philosophy as I could.
At worst, I’d say my current relationship is challenging…
At 42, my GF had never had a Real Man in her – or her kids’ – life. I wasn’t received well at first, but using take-charge tactics (but not control freak), we get along great and she sees the natural joy of submitting to a true masculine presence. Oh, and the sex is mind-blowing.
My biggest challenge is Round 2 of fatherhood:
Her daughter is 11.
Very bright. Academically, she’s closer to 14.
Very physically developed. Looks 18. I shit you not.
Emotional maturity – a 4 year old spoiled child.
My work is cut out for me…
Her knowing you don’t care if she leaves is the most powerful thing in a long term relationship. I was in a bad place early in until I grew the balls to tell my wife that and she has behaved a lot better ever since. I guess she didn’t really want to leave. The key was I think to communicate in a very loving way that if she chose to walk away from me, I’d be hurt, but back in my feet in a week.
One could rebut that if Freud was right that ertophobes would be inherently biased against accepting his theories and be biased against treating them fairly.
’cause they are like big children, I might add! Quite accurate.
Women need authority but cannot really understand it nor appreciate it, they may only feel it. They require it because they lack knowledge of the inner understanding that could make them think about themselves and see what they really want. By being under control of a benevolent (not the mangina type) husband they may achieve happiness. Society should have set them it’s expectations and then enforced them. The ones that move outside let them be punished, the ones that run against it punish them.
Passengers is a gem for the modern cinema and it should be appreciated as it is for what it is: A woman taking her God-given role, even with an involuntary start.
Women hate authority because they want men worth believing in.
But Obummer was MANLY!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX4JA3DoSSY
I want to see how women will react to Trump the naughty boy in 4 years!
He is MANLY truly not by being in cahoots with the media…
Someone’s been reading too much Ayn Rand.
Yes, I know what my username is, thank you.
Those Jennifer Lawrence movies are like, sooooo deep, etc…(click to enlarge)
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/af1e8618a58135f85ff1e2e0f882ee223a73c809c157f4698e3e85ff1b6d572a.jpg
She’s a whiny femicunt…..But I would tap that bitch all night long.
Tap it like a keg, dude…
I always liked Charles Bukowski’s idea that you should fuck women who are cunty enough so you can feel like each thrust is punishing her for something
In other (and non poetical) words: a hate fuck.
see, a hate fuck is more direct. She has been cunty to you and you hate fuck her. But if she has a cunty type of personality and you overcome it and turn her into a pet you still know that she has done some shit in her life she needs to be punished for.
To be honest, I hate modern women, but only a little….. I grew up reading the german romantics (Goethe, Novalis, Holderlin, etc), nordic sagas, etc., and my first conceptions of women and romantic love were in that line. Swallowing the Red Pill was hard, but truth always is. Now I see things clearly, the nature of women is one and the same through all ages; the romantics were exquisite poets and writers but what they wrote are simply beautiful fairy tales. There is no Gretchen’s nor Brynhildr’s out there.
I will leave the question of modern women to the side for a bit. I am well on record as liking them, but I want to push it off for the far more interesting conversation about german romanticism. Keep in mind I am a huge fan. I have an enormous Casper David Friedrich print in my bedroom (wanderer above the sea of fog) and another, smaller one near my desk at home (Lonely Tree). There is so much to like in the romantics, the ones you mentioned for sure…and Goethe, in my opinion, most of all. In fact, I read Faust I every easter as a little tradition.
I would advise you to remember that when looking for Gretchen to remember, as we say here, AWALT. Think about when Gretchen first meets Faust. She immediately senses mephostophilies and his true nature and Faust straight up treats her like a piece of shit. He negs her. He games her. He is even slightly perverted. Gretchen later says “yet I confess I know not why my heart began at once to stir to take your part” She even knows he is bad news, but he gives her the tingles.
Gretchen is not just Gretchen the saint, she is also Gretchen the fallen. She is praying to the Holy Virgin because she empathizes with the position of being unwed and pregnant but there is typical female selfishness there. But what is most unsettling about Gretchen is that she specifically acknowledges she knows that Mephistopheles is evil and that Faust is bad for her and she loves it the same. When she kills her daughter she becomes like Eve after the fall. Eve knows that eating the forbidden fruit is wrong and does it anyway and as such introduces evil into the world, so with Gretchen who knows Faust brings evil and winds up killing the baby bringing evil into her world. She does it knowingly.
The symmetry between Faust’s love for “Helen” who is not really Helen and Gretchen who is the fallen saint is actually quite perfect. I think that Cervantes’ Dulcinea del Toboso is very much like Gretchen too. There is also a great side by side of Zinaida from Turgenev’s first love.
The thing I find hardest about swallowing the red pill isn’t that there are no Gretchens out there, but rather realizing that they are all Gretchens. The purity of Gretchen is a manifestation of Faust’s (and subsequently the readers) thoughts and not a product of who she is which is just another woman who can be gamed and try to justify her whorishness later on. Of course we have it translated for a few hundred years of cultural degeneracy but in the end it is the same same.
Think of the great lament of faust:
As in that terrifying reeling
I heard the sweet familiar chimes
That duped the traces of my childhood feeling
With echoes of more joyous times,
I now curse all that would enamor
The human soul with lures and lies,
Enticing it with flattering glamour
To live on in this cave of sighs.
Cursed above all our high esteem,
The spirit’s smug self-confidence,
Cursed be illusion, fraud, and dream
That Hatter our guileless sense!
Cursed be the pleasing make-believe
Of fame and long posthumous life!
Cursed be possessions that deceive,
As slave and plough, and child and wife!
Cursed, too, be Mammon when with treasures
He spurs us on to daring feats,
Or lures us into slothful pleasures
With sumptuous cushions and smooth sheets!
A curse on wine that mocks our thirst!
A curse on love’s last consummations!
Remember, the romantics are focused on internal consciousness. Faust makes Gretchen into the perfect Gretchen and then curses himself when he realizes that it isn’t real. I guess what my point is, in the end, is that you are looking for Gretchen and not finding her and as such hating modern women when it is all along, for you as well as for faust, the case that the ideal ‘gretchen’ has never existed other than man’s desire and ability to create her. The big trick is forgetting that you created her and imagining that these qualities are hers from the start.
I go out with Gretchen all the time. I despoil her and move on. The fact that it is all a story in my head and not something concrete in this world is exactly the point of german romanticism, not contrary to it.
Very, very interesting analysis. I’m going to meditate on this and re read Faust for N time with this new optic.
About paintings, yes, Caspar David Friedrich is excellent. My favorite from him is Wanderer uber dem….the lights, the colors, and the especially the feeling it transmits is beyond description….however, my favorite school are the pre-raphaelites; the first time I saw a Rossetti in real life remembered me of a quote by Nicolas Gomez Davila, one of mi maitres a penser: “the contemplation of art produces sensory pleasure”.
If you are interested in waiting until Easter time I would be happy to do the reading side by side and share observations.
Wanderer uber dem is the one I have in my bedroom. It is 4 feet high and dominates a wall. It is the first thing I see when I wake up every morning. Rosetti is obviously a great talent, but I never like the subject being a woman in art with the exception the Death and the Maiden theme that runs through a lot of German art.
Deal.
one last thing:
You say “I’m going to meditate on this and re read Faust for N time with this new optic.” and I think this would suit you good. The danger of reading things from a more genteel time is imagining that they are, in fact, genteel. Just think about when Faust first meets Margret/Gretchen. Meph. tells Faust to leave her alone as she just left church and is free of sin, Faust basically says fuck that and buys her off with jewels and is aided by her neighbor and friend. Then Gretchen drugs her own mother so Faust can turn her out. She eventually kills the love child. Think of how this must have sounded in 1808 and translate for the modern earn. The heart and soul of the human experience is so perfectly captured by Goethe that all it takes to make it perfectly relatable is a little bit of adjusting for inflation as it were.
Have you ever undertaken to read out the full faust myth from its humble beginnings as German folk lure (the second thing ever printer on the printing press), to Marlowe’s legalistic and utterly British version in Dr. Faustus, to Goethe and then Karamozov and eventually Bugalkov in the Master and Margarita right up to Hawthorne’s Ethan Brand and even movies like Damn Yankee’s or Jan Swankmejer’s (spelling) excellent puppet version of faust? It is fascinating to follow the devil through time. Back when I was still teaching I spent one semester teaching a seminar on the Faust Myth. I have always been fascinated with the devil.
In fact, I took that same course in my University. Obviously I was the best, and ironically I was better than the Lit majors (it was a Lit course) even when my major wasn’t Lit (I’m a lawyer). We read the Anonymous, Marlowe, Goethe, and Mann. For the papers I didn’t focus in Love/Women but in the relationship and influence of occultism/blackmagic/alchemy/whatever in all those texts.
Mann, I totally forgot Mann’s Dr. Faustus. Adrian Leverkuhn was one of the great faust figures. As a side note, his book Der Zauberberg is in my personal top 5 for favorite all time books and I have written several essays on themes of death, alienation and even on the minor character Dr. Ting Fu.
Leverkuhn was a good faustian figure, and the book is good… but I have some troubles with Mann, due to political reasons basically.
I totally separate artists from their political affiliation. His books are objectively amazing works of art. I don’t need chefs to be handsome, just to be good chefs ya know
Yeah, I know that, but that’s beyond me…..a friend of mine (Psychologist) even make fun of me because of my radicalism…..fun fact: I only eat in restaurants where I’m 100% sure the chef is white.
Your Thai food must taste like shit. Lol. To each their own. Radicalized politics is so far from my understanding of life and way of entering the world it is on a different planet. But hey, to each their own here. You have earned your money, you are free to spend it as you will.
Indeed she is purty.
Can’t stand that Lawrence cunt, so unfortunately even though I love sci-fi, I will have to pass.
Frankly, Hollywood hasn’t gotten SciFi down since Storm Troopers…where the director attempted to prove the that Heinlein was a whacked.
Starship Troopers.
The movie that took Heinlein’s great work and turned it into Barbie And Ken Go To Space!(tm).
I saw that once. Your description is…. a lot more polite than mine. 😉
Well, compared with later sci-fi movies, Startroopers is a classic man.
Movies. Did you know there were sequels, at least two that I’m aware of …
yuppers. The best sci fi film adaptation I can think of is Dune. However, I haven’t seen it in decades so I am not sure it holds up to my older and more critical mind.
Dune was quite well done and views well decades later I think.
Invasion of the Body Snatchers was a re-hash of another Heinlein book, The Puppet Masters I believe. Straight up sci-fi anti-commie goodness the likes of which we’ll never see again.
The movie was so unremarkable and, well, trash that I never bothered to even check for sequels.
Sure, but then even Pauly Shore movies seem like art compared to most modern sci-fi.
I stumbled across ST 3 the other day rolling through the channels… I’ve never sat through any of them despite having read the book.
funny, I was just thinking about Chairman of the Board starring Carrot Top with the very hot Courtney Thorne-Smith (very hot in the 90’s of course, I am sticking with a refusal to google modern pictures of anyone I spanked it to prior to having the interwebs)_
If a movie is gonna be bad it better be real bad….I can watch Plan 9 From Outer Space with some regularity……glad to be confirmed in Dune.
I had to look her up, didn’t recognize the name.
Ah yeah, now there’s my Viking Princess staple look right there. Actually she’s aged but she doesn’t look like a horror show travesty like a lot of female actors her age. She looks like she’d be a decent late stage late 40’s wife, which given how awful other actresses turns out, is pretty remarkable.
http://www.hcelebs.net/celebs/celebs17/Courtney-Thorne-Smith-3.jpg
It holds, believe me.
This is why I almost religiously used to watch Mystery Science Theater 3000. If it sucks, it sucks hard, and the addition of comical commentators on the side of the screen is great.
That movie sucked balls.
Someone needs to bust out “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.” Revolutionary fun to the tune of “we quit, fuck off, or we’ll chuck rocks down your gravity well.”
The book is great. The movie had Dina Meyer topless and that’s it.
“Dune was quite well done.”
We’re talking about this movie, right?
In theory I’d love to see that put to film. In reality I know that they’d SJW the living shit out of it and it would become about a colony of gay/trans people and feminists launching moon boulders via massive rail guns at a repressive patriarchy on earth that didn’t believe that “love is love”.
Dune was a great film but not necessarily a good adaptation. They totally fucked with the Weirding Way and significance of Muad’dib.
Churnings of the rumor mill said this script was bouncing around H-wood for a bit as one of the best unproduced scripts going. The poster claiming to have read the original script says the film is a radical departure and this departure began with Lawrence’s involvement.
Its a j-law movie. Of course its annoying. Next.
Right? when will she just get on with it and do a decent porn scene before she hits the wall, a-la Natalie Portman.
she was so fucking hot in the professional.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/09760dde67db526b223dbb45cc83cee142bc1158f524f8d4720aa3d8527a5913.jpg
Don’t even try to deny it.
And nothing beats the Olsen twins in Full House, right?
nah portman in professional edges out olsen twins for sure
Indeed 12 yr bem would have burned the skin off his pecker whacking to that.
You need to evolve further dear bem….Portman in the professional is a ripe plum at any age. Don’t let society tell you otherwise.
My tastes and sensibilities have evolved as far as they’re going to.
And I assure you ‘society’ is not guiding my distaste towards gettin’ down with someone that young.
Sometimes I see mother working out at the gym with her teen daughter and the teen daughter always looks more attractive. I don’t have lolita hang up just making an observation on nature.
Sure, youth and fitness are attractive qualities.
You know what’s sad? Chick was on “our side” before she became famous. Liked having a boyfriend, kept a shotgun in the house to take care of invaders, was from Kentucky, the full nine yards.
Then Hollywood got ahold of her and nearly forced her to recant everything while luring her with big promises of “fame and fortune”. That always does people in, and it did her in but big time. She went a full 180 and also full retard. It’s like the “industry” takes a special pride in taking decent girls and twisting them into nasty monstrous Bizarro World caricatures of their former selves.
Are people really finding her attractive? I think she looks terrible as a blond myself. … Or as a brunette….
Ah well, we all have our tastes! 🙂
I know it will sound bizarre, but I wrote an almost-like-this script from a red pillish perspective nearly 25 years ago, sitting even as we speak on a USB drive (was originally on a floppy disk and has underwent many conversions to different word processing formats over the years). It differs insofar as nobody else wakes up except the people that the lead wakes up to hunt and kill and eat for sport, eventually finding somebody who is a better predator than him and he is killed. I titled it “Insomnia”.
Fuck. Couldn’t get a single Gatekeeper to even consider buying it, spent a few years shopping it back when I had more hope and naivete than I do now.
Interesting note: Pratt is a gun owner, an open Christian and it’s rumored that he’s a right winger but it’s never been really confirmed as of yet. That he was even outted for owning and enjoying firearms and still has work is amazing in this day and age.
Yah you noticed that when Joss Whedon did all those pro-hillary Hollywood videos last year with the cast of a lot of Marvel movies, he wasn’t in any of them? He was pretty silent during the past election cycle when a ton of his co-stars were off shouting their liberal garbage. I used to think the same for Chris Evans, as he and Pratt did a lot of charitable work together. but even he spoke out against Trump. Abit much more quieter than his costars.
Right? It’s weird how they’ll keep somebody with good box office draw “on the screen” but omit him from political type propaganda. Maybe that’s his choice though (I hope)?
True. Whendon has gone full social justice warrior as of late. Even calling Ivanka a “dog” on twitter. I’m glad not all of the marvel movie casts haven’t pulled in with his lot.
The good thing about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is that it caters to a pretty large audience, minus the political feelings of it’s directors. However it was found that the president of Marvel Entertainment gave hugely to the Trump Campaign. Might be a reason that Joss Whendon hasn’t been hired back to direct or write any future Marvel movies. The same can’t be said about the Marvel comics division that has embraced the whole SJW/Feminist/liberal mindset over the past 2 years. Their sales have plummeted with only landing 1 coming out of 10 in the top selling monthly titles. Even their new “Iron Man is now a black girl” stunt landed them at number 55 on the list after the Blue Beetle comic from DC!
For me the biggest disappointment was when they made Iceman gay. It doesn’t make any god damn sense! He was chasing girls since 60’s and now he suddently switches?
I came across some really good podcast and youtube videos that talked about what is going on with Marvel Comics division. It’s pretty sad actually. Micheal Brandis (one of the lead writers at Marvel) has been pushing the diversity/sjw angle for years now and it’s ruining the numerous franchises he’s had is hands on. All you have to do is look at the top 100 sales and Marvel titles are sinking fast. If they continue to preach and degrade the loyal audience like they’ve been doing it’s only going to continue to get worse.
It makes me sad to see decent comic book writers turn into brainless SJW’s. Bendis’s run of Ultimate Spider-Man is my childhood classic.
I also cringed when I saw Mockingbird dressed in pink shirt with text saying: “Ask me about my feminist agenda.”
To add to the points regarding Chris Pratt, here’s a previously fat dude who worked hard to attain his current buff status. And sustaining it by the looks of things. Blows away some loser’s excuse for not creating a better version of themselves.
Yep. I doubt he’ll ever “come out” fully, but his actions do not match those of a traditional Lefty. He does Christian charities, etc. in his spare time. He goes to shooting ranges, proudly, and likes his time there with friends. His roles in movies are either heroic or benign and funny. I don’t think I’ve heard him curse much if at all (he might have, but I haven’t heard it or I don’t remember him doing it).
If he turns out to be a Lefty it would surprise me.
He also played a main role in The Lego movie, which turned out from stupid product placement into awesome father and son movie.
If the part of the man and the woman on this story were reversed you would see this broad “waking up” her 24th guy and hoping he ignores the pile of other dead men that she grew bored with.
Him: “What happened to those guys?”
Her: “Oh, you know. Wanna fuck?”
Him: “OK!!!”
ding ding ding
If j-law woke up first, females would say its perfectly natural for her to wake up whoever she wanted just because she needed help or she was lonely or afraid, with no moral or ethical dilemma in the mind of females who are allowed to operate on emotion.
Passengers II: Hypergamy at 30,000 Feet
Can you imagine the reversed roles if they had Chris Pratt being woken up by her, and having his character physically attack her, like they had her do to him (according to the reviewer as I haven’t seen it. I might be willing to rent it or pirate it)?
That bit “Love is an emotional connection so intense that you would literally rather die than stop being with someone. Love is when you would give your life for another person (or even an animal or object). If you have a partner, but probably wouldn’t sacrifice yourself for her, you’re probably just in ‘lust’ not ‘love’” is the most accurate description of love I ever came across.
I strongly believe that you just can’t love somebody who is not one of your ancestors, siblings or children
Recognition of siblings and ancestors is merely an accident of birth. Love for them is something that’s either learned or not.
We are endowed with free will, so CHOOSING to love another is a far more powerful thing. However, like death, its impossible to comprehend without experiencing it.
Really does depend on your definition of love and whether you agree there are variations. Romantic love vice a Christian type love.
Whether love is just a feeling, or whether love is a choice, something under one’s control.
What did you guys think of Arrival? I thought it was interesting but obviously a chick flick with aliens.
Arrival, one of those movies I skip through on FF just to check if there’s any action or nakedness ……… nothing, complete fail.
Fuck the PC moral conundrums. If only Neil Armstrong or John Glenn could see that our vision of space travel has been reduced to some bitch pissed off because she woke up early.
For sci fi, I like Event Horizon. Possessed devil-ship with surreal Alien-esque design takes over and kills one crew, then proceeds to get busy with another, killing almost everyone on board. Or STALKER, a bunch of drunk Russians hike through the woods and into an industrial complex to find the wish-granter. So hardcore Russky industrial-waste that some of the cast died from inhaling toxic fumes.
I really liked Event Horizon as well. I also, despite people telling me I’m insane, liked Pitch Black (but not the sequel).
I vaguely remember the original. I recall some early-CGI creatures flying out of a cave. I do remember Diesel’s voice striking me as very unusually deep for the current era. Most actors/tv announcers these days have voices that seem to be in the lower-mid reaches of the female range.
I find his voice very upsetting because he sounds hopelessly congested. Can a nigga get a antihistamine up in here?
The CGI wasn’t overdone, the creatures really only featured in the last 1/3 of the film. The real drama was between him and the female captain who tried to sacrifice the lives of the entire ships crew and contents in order to save her own skin.
Basically he confronted her sociopathy disguised as “caring” and gave her the big middle finger while laughing most of the time.
That is fukkin hilarious. Thanks.
Robot Chicken Star Wars was one of the funniest cartoon spoofs ever.
Can you believe I’ve managed to never see it? I need to remedy this…
absolutely….especially because you can grab it on you tube
hold my calls! cancel my meetings! arrest any expectations of productivity!!
I don’t mind his voice actually. It’s ten times more masculine than the typical high pitch nearly gay sounding register most men speak in these days.
yeah at least its low and doesn’t have that inflection? that makes everything? sound like a question?
“why do I have to stay in the vault?”
You guys are forgetting that it took mechanical knowledge to open the boxes – and even then, he had to research it for awhile.
She would never have figured out how to do it. Or at least, she would have killed a number of people before getting it right.
She probably would have blown up the entire ship by mashing buttons at random.
Here’s my question.
Why is she so concerned that Jim “Murdered” her or took her life away.
SPOLIERS
we find out she is doing this trip for 120yrs, staying one whole year amd then flying back for another 120ys all on the assumption she will get a good story out of it. That is 240 yrs. She left all of her family and friends to die on earth. When ahe gets back she wkll uave no one and nothing except a bland story of life on one colony. Who knows how many books on colony life would have been made by then. Hell space travel may have been vastly improved by then and she may be several decades too late.
Her character is a spoiled daughter of a no name writer who fancies herself a writer but has nothing to write about. Most likely because of her vapid life of materialism.
She makes a selfish decision to abandon every human she ever knew to fly luxury class on a 240yr round trip equivalent of a dumb university kid “finding” herself on a european back packing.
Everything that she ever owned is gone and anyone she ever knew is generations dead. She decides to stay her entire life on a luxury cruise liner with her every need met and zero rules stoppimg them from taking or doing anythinf they want.
At the end of the movie they basically have access to everything on the ship and never have to pay for it.
If you ask me she had a moment of clarity and realized this was most likely the best her life can get. She got to write her great book about emotional drama and adventure like ahe always wanted and them retire young to live the rest of her life in total luxury.
The Mars mission will be an example where they can’t come back to earth. These been studies on this by NASA where they isolated a group in a Mars like environment for a year where they turned on each other. The result was a disaster!
fuk Mars we can’t even manage THIS planet…
Who is this ‘we’, I certainly play no part in any decisions about this planet, and therefore accept none of the blame for anything going wrong (or right).
‘we’ is we humans of earth. Guilt by association. Its a bitch.
I would think that with a long lasting mission/colonization of Mars would require that all crew member get back to Earth at least once every 2-3 years for an extended stay. National Geographic Channel ran a pretty realistic series about Martian Colonization that was pretty cool.
I’d invite the bartender over for drinks and a space threesome involving the ships painkillers and a whole lot of lubrication from the ships birthing stores.
Yes that lady would be making me a sandwich and free falling with me and the robot.
I never minded reading spoilers before I see most movies. That way I know what suck to embrace. I’ll go check it out.
The issues dealt with in this article remind me of Ayn Rand’s book, The Virtue of Selfishness.” Her writings completely destroy the concept of altruism.
“It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.”
I can just see an alternative twist to this. Jim awakes Aurora, she turns out to be a total bitch, and in exploring the ship he finds a…..sex bot
In 2017, it’s more likely that he awakens “Ken,” a handsome, buff guy with similar interests, who can also bake a mean cake. Together they develop first a friendship, then it goes to back rubs, then cast their cultural conditioning to the wind, stop fighting their Brokeback urges, and just go with the flow. At the end, Ken dies in Jim’s arms, and we are supposed to think, “their love was just as real as anyone else’s.”
You should submit a script.
On the other hand, everything pissed off feminists.
Even other feminists.
I don’t think you even need to get into the morality of what Jim or anyone “owes” a stranger. If you study the scenario closely, you see Jim only has two options. He can either commit suicide, or he can wake one person up. That he can do neither and live a long life in solitude is illusory (and I give credit to the film makers for I believe intentionally setting it up this way) because he cannot and likely, would not be able to keep such a promise for the simple reason that solitude would drive him insane, endangering all the other passengers (in a fit of madness he might wake everyone up).
Also, let’s examine the reasons why these two people are on this ship. Jim is on the ship because he feels it is his only real choice; he is an economic refugee. If he understood the dangers of space travel better, perhaps he may not have chosen this route, but it is easy for us to see why he did. On the other hand, Aurora is (as another review put it) a space tourist from a very privileged background. Now here is where it gets interesting. Aurora, when explaining about the corporation that settles the planet, gives us the usual bleeding heart/hypocrite liberal spiel about corporate greed. Yet even though she had infinitely more realistic options in life than Jim at the stage where she chose this voyage (seems to me like they are both about 30 or near it), she still submitted to the ultimate authority of this corporation, placing her faith in its ability to put her to sleep for two lifetimes and wake her up in a new world safe and sound. Seeing how easily the sleep pods malfunction, Aurora should have known better, yet she bought the brochure and really you could make the case she got what she deserved. Is this perhaps the film makers’ comment about the feminine need to follow a leader, be it a man or corporation?
Last, I give the filmmakers more credit than most even positive reviews for how far they took this scenario (see above). Perhaps they could have taken the leap into how Jim and Aurora live on the ship; do they have children? Who do the children marry? Each one gets to wake one person when they turn 20? Conflict. Play out Genesis all over again! You get the picture.. But that would be a fairly long movie, and liberal minds can only take so much.
“Yet these people expect kindness to be automatic. That I should automatically care about starving Africans or Muslim refugees or a battered housewife simply because these things are inherently sympathetic.”
I live in a different (Buddhist/Muslim) society, once I was watching a news item on an earthquake where many people had died. My girlfriend asked, “Why should I care?, Are any related to me?, Do I know any of them?, are they even my countrymen? …… No, well fuck them”. It was something I had never thought about before. Humans are a competitive species …….. people unconnected with you being dead is a generally a good thing. Only white people care about other races/nationalities/strangers, it isn’t a world wide phenomenon, THEY don’t care about us!.
It’s the very thing that (liberal, esp atheist) white people tend to disavow nowadays, the psychological spectre of their Christian roots, that impel them to care universally about others. I’ve been thinking lately that the beliefs of far left liberalism is simply zealotry of a different sort, a replacement and successor to the more extreme forms of Puritanical Christianity that date back to the roots of the USA and I’m sure other transplants of colonial era Britain. Virtue signaling, liberal “sins” like not recycling and disbelieving global warming, dogma like universal tolerance…the parallel registers are all there. Just like early American zealots who hung witches at Salem, liberals will call for everything up to physical violence if you contradict their beliefs, nothing is off the table for them if you are an unbeliever.
“… liberals will call for everything up to physical violence if you contradict their beliefs, nothing is off the table for them if you are an unbeliever.”
They won’t stop at physical violence — Leftists (which are what most ‘liberals’ are nowadays) have proven by their past actions in wherever they have been able to get hold of power (e.g., in the Soviet Union, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.), that they will ruthlessly and mercilessly prosecute, murder, or send to ‘reeducation’/labor/concentration/extermination camps anyone who disagrees with their Leftist beliefs.
I strongly believe that the only thing that stops them here is that we have a lawful right to firearms, and we have the will to use them.
Maybe it’s just me, but who the hell want’s to watch a movie with Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt?
Chris Pratt is an awesome actor. Lawrence on the other hand is different story.
I just watched a movie with JL acting the lead, “my tits are blind, my tits are blind”, great script!
Pratt is a very talented actor with a wide range.
Pratt is ok I guess. I’ve only seen him in that awful Dino World or whatever it was. So I’m not getting a good picture of his abilities. 😀
Lawrence though… ugh. And I must be in the minority, but I don’t even think she’s attractive. 🙂
If beta orbiters fap to j-law’s hacked pics is she going to report them to Hillary?
It was outrageous because it even suggested traditional sex roles.
Not on my bucket list ?? A piece of crap made in Joowood for stupid goyim !
Havent seen the movie yet but I’m guessing from your review that they don’t have kids? You’d think they would be spending most of their time humping and she would pop out quite a few rugrats to keep them company.
Remember Solaris? He throws his dead, reanimated wife out the airlock…the first time! heh…
Here is a discussion on the film that definitely pissed the reviewer off
http://www.flickfilosopher.com/2016/12/passengers-movie-review-lost-sexist-space.html
Is there anything that somehow someway does NOT piss off feminists?
Another reason Jessica Valenti shouldn’t get the pod – she’d sabotage the damn thing if you took it. Watching you sleep, unprotected, her resentment would grow unchecked until she took a crow bar to the hibernation pod.
That is, if she didn’t manage to move it to a vacuum chamber and shoot you out of the ship like a photon torpedo.
Sounds like the premise from rocket man without the comidy
DICK DRIVES THIS CAR BITCH, NOT PUSSY ✌️