The Advantage Of Being A Late-Bloomer

The other day I made the mistake of going on my fake Facebook account and looking up some people I went to high school with. I put on a playlist of all the music I was listening to back then to get me in a nostalgic mood. I don’t use Facebook for real since, as any guy with game will tell you, it’s a single man’s worst enemy for at least 10 or 15 good reasons. I originally opened the fake account for an abandoned troll project and have kept it for the occasional pre-date reconnaissance job. It’s amazing what information girls disclose voluntarily.


I started punching in names and, before long, I was trawling friend lists and started remembering names I’d hadn’t seen since my crazy ex-girlfriend “accidentally” threw away my high school yearbook not long after graduation. The trend was—like it is for any other red-pill man who has gone through this exercise—remarkably familiar: the girls had become shockingly fat, the dudes disappointingly lame, and nearly everyone seemed to going out of their way to live as ordinary a life as possible. I couldn’t decide if it was inspiring or depressing.

Surprisingly, some of the worst cases were the guys who had shown the most promise in high school—stand-out athletes, cool semi-geniuses who I was sure would cure cancer, and stylish players who were banging multiple girls before anyone else was. A surprising number of them now resembled Danny McBride from Eastbound and Down, but without any of irony or comedic value. Many of them were (practically) hitched to fatties or objectively unattractive chicks, who they were lovingly clutching in every other photograph. Even more of them were working nothing office-jobs, a fact they declared by showing pictures of themselves in their beige cubicles wearing ill-fitting suits.


These images brought me no joy. I wasn’t a marginalized, quiet nerd in high school who got pushed into lockers by these guys and was praying for celestial payback all these years. They were either my friends or, at least, guys I would nod “wassup” to in the hallway. In high school, I was a pretty middle-of-the-road guy. My claims to fame were my teacher-infuriating (but student-pleasing) class-clown stunts, my silver tongue in insult contests, and being the mastermind of the greatest high school prank in Chester A. Arthur High School* history. I played a couple of sports and, while I was good enough, I didn’t particularly distinguish myself in any of them. I was classified as one of the “smarter” kids, but I wasn’t winning any best-of contests or giving any speeches at graduation. In retrospect, I was pretty good at talking to girls but, it turns out, terrible at “escalating.”

*not my real high school’s name

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that an overwhelming majority of precocious types I’ve known—in high school and beyond—have followed a similar pattern. They stand out for a period of time, early in life, only to fade into mediocrity when the well that brought them that distinction dries up. If that supply was high-school sports, for example, their glory rarely lasts for very long after they return their rented caps and gowns. For others, the hey-day comes in college. A few manage to ride the wave a longer, but only a tiny majority parlay their exceptional skills in one thing into a diverse set of enduring life skills.

The other half of the Facebook story is the guys from high school who hadn’t gotten fat, who had pictures with legit hotties, pictures from exotic travels, and seemingly interesting lives—at least from the fragments I could piece together through their varying privacy settings. Nearly all of them had been miscellaneous background extras who I barely remembered. One guy, a quiet stoner with buck teeth, whose only job on the junior-varsity basketball team was coming off the bench to take charges, was now co-owner of a sports equipment company. I know 101 percent of people exaggerate their status on Facebook, but you couldn’t exaggerate the pictures of this guy’s house. Or girlfriend. There were at least three other guys like this: straight-up surprises that nobody would have put any money on, who were now stand-outs, especially in the things we care about—“money, hoes, and clothes,” to quote a famous 1990s poet.


For as long as I’ve been involved in the “game community,” I’ve noticed that an overwhelming majority of guys, especially those most successful with women, were of this latter type—late bloomers. “Naturals,” as they call those with effortless success with women, rarely understand fully, if at all, where their success comes from. They coast on what they have—whether that’s good looks, exceptional athleticism, or some privileged access to a special fishbowl—until it runs out. Sometimes it doesn’t–but those guys tend to be the exception.

Meanwhile, the non-natural, the self-made man, spends those early years watching from the sidelines–whether as a bucked-tooth nerd or a middle-of-the-packer who simply doesn’t stand out as exceptional. But unlike the rest of the pack, he’s paying attention to the mechanism behind people’s behavior. Or, if he doesn’t, something down the line alerts him to this behind-the-scenes reality. Whatever the case, he studies it, takes it apart, and implements it into his own life. As a result, he develops superior social intelligence—the fulcrum for success with women, business, and continual self-improvement. His understanding of what creates success grants him an adaptability—one that naturals rarely develop—that enables him to extend his prime years long into the future. As a consequence, I’m convinced the red pill is an overwhelmingly late-bloomer phenomenon.

Chances are, I’ll never have a “real” Facebook profile, but I’d be more than happy to be another surprise to the high-school class.

Read More: The Power of Shame

111 thoughts on “The Advantage Of Being A Late-Bloomer”

  1. Every looser at school dreams of the described
    Absolutely not the case in my experience.All the loosers are married to fatties,all the cool dudes are still cruising the open waters…

    1. He wasn’t talking about “losers”, Einstien. He was talking about late-bloomers and “middle-of-the-packers”. And if you have to wonder if you were one of them, then you weren’t. Unlike me, who definitely was.

      1. There were 3 of cool dudes in my class and I was one of them.Call me beta,I would not be offended.I lost my virginity at 15,I did competitve sports,and I bullied many many fuck heads.I am 30 now and still proud of it hehe.
        Yet,on a serious note,all this sounds more like a mental masturbation.Pure hasty generalisation fallacy.There are many different schools,many different social classes and many different ” late bloomers” .And in fact maybe they were not “late bloomers”,maybe its just author’s own perception of other people’s lifes.

        1. Better start doing something serious, that assembles a body of work no one can touch or take away. Or it’s the shadows for you, and soon.

        2. English is not my native language.
          Yet I speak 5 foreign languages,how many do you?

  2. I would describe myself as a late bloomer…didn’t have much of anything in high school other than being book smart and a hard worker. I was pretty observant of human behaviors too…but I was more jealous and bitter about those jerks that got women. The red pill made me wise up in a hurry.
    The best part is when you have to work for everything you get…it makes you appreciate the successes more and gives you the desire to learn from your failures.

  3. I bumped into a middle of the road background guy from school at a bar last weekend. He had two hotties either side of him and he left them to talk a small while with me. Turns out, like myself, he disassociated himself from everyone in school when he realised he had so much more potential, we joked about how they were all married to fatties, overweight and had their kids names tattooed all over them, and remarked on how who would’ve thought guys like us would become the standouts. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out he’d knowingly took the red pill.

  4. I was the smallest guy in my grade, and the last to reach puberty. This introduces a lot of negative pack behavior because the pack enjoys picking on the smaller boys. It was mitigated somewhat by playing varsity baseball and being ‘smart’, so some of the guys left me alone, and a lot of the cool girls were more into me than I had the confidence to realize. Still, I hated high school and dropped out after the first trimester senior year and went to college. In college I became cool because of academic performance, athletic performance, and the fact that I became 6’1″, 170 with a decent bench press and a ribbed stomach. But a person never really loses the self-image that being small and late to the maturation party instills. I did not have nearly as much fun with the girls, in college, as I could have. I screwed up a lot interviews in my life because I still have the little boy voice in the back of my head. Some of those interviews were important (e.g., Rhodes Scholarship, where I just completely and utterly screwed the pooch).
    There’s probably an element of competitive instinct in me as a result of being a late bloomer physically and socially. I moved to NYC at 21, had a play produced at 24 and started my first software company at 26. My wife was a model/actress and not a frumpy one. I taught myself to act like an extrovert and alpha (I am a natural introvert/sigma). I taught myself to look people in the eye, say no, and shrug at others’ manipulations. I have never attended a high school reunion, and the pictures from the last one are horrifying in the manner you describe: I would be helpless at one unless everyone had a very prominent nametag.
    But once a late bloomer, always. I didn’t understand the red pill until after 25 years of increasingly unpleasant, manipulative marriage. Given magical powers, I would relive my life, hit puberty at 12, join the Marines at 18, get my first brutal divorce out of the way at 25, and then show up in NYC with a tattoo, an attitude, a dorm room at Columbia, and a plan. But life doesn’t give you any mulligans. I’m trying to be a better mentor to my son than my ‘good guy’ father was to me.

    1. Why would you join the Marines? About the only thing you should have done differently is not get married to some one you were doomed to failed with. Also to get a divorce sooner than later in a doomed marriage.

      1. Shortest route to I don’t give a fuck-ville. Your comment about my marriage is out of line.

        1. No. Marriages, like people, do not arrive with placards that say “Doomed.” Grow up.

        2. Er.. that may be true, but given the current state of affairs, why would you do it in the first place?

        3. I know you mean well. Because the current state of affairs is a lot clearer, and INOP, than they were in 1981. I already stated that I was married for 25 years. Were you born in 1981? My life provides context to the current ‘state of affairs’, and use me as context. That’s how I’m useful. Knock off the “I know so much” stuff.

        4. You’re not useful at all. You bring up your marriage and than act like a bitch when I make a comment based on your hind sight being 20/20. You’re the one who comes here and calls yourself a late bloomer saying you would have done things differently. Don’t bring up your failed marriage and how you would have done things differently if you’re just going to cry foul when some one else mentions it.

        5. Don’t get sand in your vagina. He has a point. Just get over your hurt feelings and drop it.

      2. It’s kinda pointless for one to say “I should have joined the military in hindsight”, but I joined the military, and while I hit my most beta moments there, it also kept me out of going to college and having a shitty time.
        That 4 years bought me a lot of time to fall to the bottom and swallow the red pill.

      3. Because the US Marine Corps are all about discipline and self development. Whatever he ended up doing later, it would have been time well spent for him.

    2. This is the credited life plan. Army combat ops for 3-5 years, parlayed into a free (Post 9/11 GI Bill) Ivy League education (Harvard, Columbia, Penn because you have a city full of girls). Literally every young man I come across including my nephews will get this advice from me. If you can do that, you’ll be a success with no where to go but up by 27 years of age.

      1. Provided that said nephews stay away from Army chicks for fear of a sexual harassment charge that ends, prematurely, their Army careers. Also, provided that said nephews don’t waste their time and complete credits while on active duty to shorten the time it will take for them to get their bachelors degrees after they get out.
        Time is of the essence there. I’ve heard too many stories of guys who wasted their time because they had no direction — and that was when they were IN the military.

    3. Your lucky you became 6’1, I’m still 5’5 and 25…not going to grow. women select for height the most…I think you would have been screwed if you were still 5’5. and acting like an alpha look people in the eye, say no, etc and getting buff would make you look like your a small man with little man syndrome. I’m happy for you that you are tall.

      1. It’s unfair, as you note. In a lineup you’ll suffer. However:
        My business partner is 5’6″, 210, bald. He speaks with a Russian accent and doesn’t understand a lot of American slang or references. But he’s warm and one of the best mathematicians in the world.
        ALL of the customers think he is a warmer person than I, and anyone with any technical interest wants to talk to him, not me.
        Keep the faith and be really, really good at something while making people want to be around you. Once the stakes are higher I guarantee that no one will give a shit how tall you are, if you have the right answers and other people look to you for help.
        In terms of women, my gf at the moment is 5’2″.
        Dustin Hoffman is 5’5″. Pacino, 5’6″. James Madison 5’4″.
        I’m 6’1″ but I was raised by a psychopath, so I am socially slow. Everyone is handicapped. Basically, everyone is handicapped pretty seriously. A few good habits over the years will compensate for all.

        1. The short girls are the ones that go for tall men. you will never find a Caucasian short chick ( 5’1-5’4) with a 5’5-5’6 man . Also those guys you listed are famous, I doubt they got girls before they were famous. And becoming famous is very difficult. I’m not trying to be difficult, but you need to understand, a short man’s world, in regards to dating, is very different. And i have a great job aswell, so I’m not going to complain about money + a huge social circle, but as always, the women in my social circle , and there are many, turn me down for my height. they all choose taller men.

        2. Maybe so, but there ARE non-famous short guys that pull with the best of them. Having that disadvantage sucks, but bitching about it online instead of trying to overcome it will not help. Game is the great equalizer.

        3. There is no way. But it is fine, I have worked out a solution. I try to get rich and just bang hookers for the rest of my life. Getting married is pretty bad anyways. Probably once a week.

        4. Short guy (5’7″) checking in. We definitely have to work harder to come across as convincingly desirable, but the situation is far from impossible. In high school I used to blame my lack of dating success on being short. I now realize it was a horribly beta excuse not to have game.
          As Micheal James said, short girls go for the tall guys. My theory is this: a lot of what women do is based on their perceived self-weakness. For example, trying to attract strong, confident, high-status males. A short woman will feel even more weak, and thus try to aim for an even more masculine man to make up for it.
          I’ve had the most success with girls about the same height as me or just slightly shorter than me.

        5. I’ll provide an example. I was 27 before someone told me I should look others in the eye when speaking to them. What I’m saying is that in one sense I was an unsocialized child at 27. That’s not a handicap, that’s a pathology. By the time I was 30 I could talk to people like a healthy 12 year-old. It was all learned, all acquired, and it was exhausting.
          So yeah, a short guy suffers in a club hustling strangers. I’m not sure that is as big a deal as some suggest. Unless your life purpose is hustling slut-babes in a club.
          If you’re good at something and irreplaceable at something, no one gives a shit how tall you are.
          Dan Gable is short. NO ONE fucks with Dan Gable, or anyone who lives in his school of life.
          Don’t frame your existence by the rules the frat boy attention whore frat boys establish. An alpha is not a boy who won the DNA lottery.

        6. Buena Vista, your comments are such a high value offering. I can recognize it from my own similar life experience, and from how much your advice resembles great advice from my best mentor ever, whose guidance was of very rare quality. I hope to continue seeing your comments here @ ROK.

  5. I was a late-bloomer, too and, in some ways, thankful because of it.
    If nothing else, being a late-bloomer means that you’ve taken the time to find out who you are and what you really want, and how best to achieve what it is you really want. Of course, with that, comes a whole lot of years of deprogramming in order to arrive at the “true” self.
    As I’ve said before elsewhere, when they say that “life begins at 40,” I take it to mean that you spend the first 20 years of your life living according to someone else’s script. Then, you spend the next 20 deconstructing this until you arrive at 40.
    For some, this happens earlier, and it tends to be uneven. Some learn Game and have greater success with chick earlier (not me), and others learn that the world isn’t all what it seems and it’s best to detach from the more pernicious elements at work in society (definitely me).

    1. Also, in my case, I noticed that, with my former classmates, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. They chose to stay in my hometown and not move that far away. I only know of one guy who moved to NYC and became an architect for environmentally-friendly, sustainable buildings.

  6. This was very encouraging and inspirational. Thank you Tuthmosis. 🙂

    1. I am 26 and I am a late bloomer. I have been experiencing some serious regret about wasting my early 20’s but after reading Roosh and studying game, and starting my own internet business, I finally feel I am living my life. This article reaffirms what I believed to be true. My life hasn’t been completely wasted. I will become a millionaire and make up for lost time =D

      1. “Wasting” can be a relative term, seen clearly only in the rear-view mirror.
        Look at it this way: if you came out of your 20s with no divorce, no alimony payments, no kids, little or no debt, your health, your sanity, no booze or drugs problems, no arrests, friends who are there for you, some money and the bank, and some travel (there are many other good things), then count yourself ahead of the pack and more fortunate than many other male schlubs out there.
        25 is the the age, it seems, when most men are just starting to get a clue about themselves and about life to where they can see a path more clearly. 28 is the age where, according to Schopenhauer, a man has a fully-formed intellect. For women, it’s 18. But, of course, they serve a different purpose on this planet, aided and abetted by a female-centric culture.

  7. I am happy to hear that this is the norm. I am a late bloomer myself and always kicked myself for not getting good with women earlier.

      1. Dude, I am 5’10” and my 5’2″ natural alpha neighbor has a hotter wife than I do.

  8. I honestly expected to see my name as the author at the bottom of this article.

  9. another late bloomer here. I think a part of it is that we didnt have shit handed to us earlier on when we were young, and we had to carve out our own spot and make our way.
    Though in high scholl I wished I could have been Mr Popular Guy, but in the big picture, I’m happier for how it turned out. I’m *better* because of it

  10. Money accumulates with time so I can see how it’s the late bloomers who have it better than everybody in the end. The ‘naturals’ are too busy hitting poontang to chase money so they’ll have their time in the sun and then fade out. The sideliners are too busy chasing money because we know what it brings. Nobody can deny it, more money = more women.
    The average guy will get his share of poon from time to time but he knows if he’s too focused on that when he’s young, he might have nothing to offer by the time he hits 30.
    Nothing to offer = no sex

  11. Late bloomer as well.
    When did you guys start to really hit your stride? I can honestly say that I was pretty much blue pill, beta who did not know who I was, what I wanted, and what values were most important to me until around 26 or 27.
    I am 32 now, and I know exactly who I am as a man, and what is important to me. my life and my persona look completely different now, than 5 years ago. I am fully grounded, know exactly what I want out of life, and how to get it. I own two businesses and date attractive women on my own terms but these things didn’t really start to progress until my late twenties.
    Never made it to my 10 year HS reunion but from what I heard from friends that went was that 90% of my class turned out to be complete duds.

    1. I had a few spectacular accomplishments around 30, and some crushing disappointments after that. I’m now in my mid-30’s. I don’t think life is ever something that will “plateau” and I’m not sure I would want to.

    2. In my case, late. My father was an alpha at work, at home he might have been an omega. (mother is schizophrenic, he decided to let her reality rule. That was my model for matrimony.). I had a good marriage until I didn’t. Didn’t know how to handle ‘didn’t.’. Do now. Late bloomer redux.

    3. 27 or 28 is when I really started to “get” some things in life, though there were other things, I suppose, that I got much earlier. That is, when you’re not part of the “in” crowd and don’t care to be, you start off on your own way and find things out for yourself.
      28 is the age, so Schopenhauer said in “On Women,” when men begin to reach their full mental capacity.

    4. I stumbled across the red pill at about age 21 (I’m 23 now), but I’m still struggling to internalize it in my life. But unlike many, I’m young, I have potential.
      Really, I should stop slacking and start moving forward in my life.

  12. Those who do well following the status quo become reliant on it and resist change. Many of those not rewarded by the status quo begin to see through it, can take advantage of it, and can roll with the changes.

  13. Late bloomer here. Chubby, nerdy, art class, bench warming kid. The captain of the football team was my arch nemesis and we would almost fight at least once a week. College sucked too. Finally got in shape and came out of my shell around 21-22. It has been freaking sweet and getting sweeter for the past 10 years.
    Us late bloomers have been rejected and spat on enough so we have massive amounts of scorn and disgust for plebes. If you can temper that with a little positive extroversion, that personality makes the girlys moist.

  14. I basically agree with you about FACEBOOK hurting game, but at this point, FB is my rolodex, especially since I have many international contacts that I need to be in touch with. I’m planning to return overseas with some business plans, and FB has been crucial with reconnecting with possible business partners.

  15. Sort of off topic, but I notice when going through Facebook that the girls in high school that were well developed(big tits,nice ass) all turned out to get fat later in life. The thin high schoolers, on the other hand, are the ones who filled out nicely

    1. There is a strong correlation here. Rare is the woman who is consistently hot from 18 to 45 or beyond (age-adjusted.)
      I’ve decided that the best choice is an ectomorph with a good deal of mesomorph – but that’s to match my mild mesomorph. The mesomorph enhances her libido but tends her to bulkiness rather than just natural fat.

  16. Word. I’m a total late bloomer in every respect, and I’m so grateful for it.
    If late blooming is as prevalent in the game community as the comments here make it seem, once could make an evolutionary biology-based argument that game is a male form of neoteny, which is when mature adults of a species still resemble the young. It’s the eternal baby-face. I think there are a lot of players that fit that description.

  17. I was also a late bloomer. I had noticed how people reacted to the popular crowd and made guesses as to how the popular crowd was accomplishing it.
    Basically, you only had to create your own “click” with non-dweebs, and then have a ton of fun with them and a lot of inside jokes.
    The result? Everybody felt left out and wanted in. Before you knew it, you were the cool group and if you were the leader of the cool group, or the more dominant one……girls wanted you.

  18. I’m a total late bloomer in every regard. I always chalked up my mediocrity with woman to magic, or lack thereof. But then I started learning the mechanism behind human interactions, and everything crystalized. Late bloomers have an advantage in that they’re often intelligent and thus are very good at boiling down social interactions and (sometimes literally) mapping them out.
    Look at Mystery. You hear the guy talk about game and you don’t have to hear him say it to know that he’s in no way a natural. His speech is littered with nerdy tics as he describes the process of game. He’s just a dude who figured out how to see the grinding gears behind the scenes.
    While learned alphas are rarely quite as alpha as a natural, they do have advantages in that they are much more cognizant of the dynamics in play around them.

  19. I have seen more of the opposite. The nerds remained nerds while the athletes and well rounded people went off to great colleges, got good degrees, make a good amount of money, and everything. Many of these guys did great in college too because of the fraternity life that brought them access to lots of quality women. On top of that they had nice jobs lined up due to having good parents that gave them connections.

  20. Never related to a post on here as much as this. Appreciated. I’ll take this as extra drive towards my successes.

    1. I second this. Much of the manosphere stuff is filled with faux-alpha chest-beating. Here we have a series of personal testimonies, most of which are quite literate. I really appreciate this topic.

  21. Apparently my 5 year reunion is coming up, and since everything on it was done via Facebook I’m sure I will not make it.
    Which is totally a positive. Gives me a lot more time to straighten my shit out, and more time for everyone else to amount to little.

      1. Yeah, for the crowd that graduated college I would imagine. I didn’t think they would have one until I saw it on Facebook a few months past.

      2. Yeah, for the crowd that graduated college I would imagine. I didn’t think they would have one until I saw it on Facebook a few months past.

      3. Yeah, for the crowd that graduated college I would imagine. I didn’t think they would have one until I saw it on Facebook a few months past.

  22. I’m a late bloomer. And the good news is that all that stuff you may have heard about things getting more difficult as you get older is not true. It gets better.

  23. Funny article for me. I was a varsity lettered athlete in three sports,but the main attraction in one, had ups and downs with women (but certainly had no idea why), was not stupid but did not care enough to study and improve myself (that changed), and later on I started owning businesses, dating hotties (more than in HS), and traveling the world.
    Not all because of the red pill; but it had a major hand in it. Banged more hotties after the red pill dawn, and married what would have been way above my pay grade in times past.
    Going back to High School and seeing the people I did not get along with that well struggle like you describe brought me no joy. They were over weight, most but not all of them, and still “living the dream” in and around the high school they never left.
    They all came back, or just stayed and never left.
    Something I will never understand, indeed I can’t, I’ve outgrown that and my mind can never go back.
    I am a late bloomer, but I don’t see myself as having peeked yet. The Red Pill, and other lessons in life have taught me there is always a new level, and a new devil to overcome.
    I embrace change and new challenges; I guess that is what made me different then. Couldn’t articulate it then though.

  24. Im a late bloomer but not yet the finished product. Also, Ive bloomed late because Ive had problems in life that wouldnt have existed if society was different. I’m sure that’s the case for a lot of us.
    I think blooming is important in the coming era; better that most who don’t bloom at all.The lives of the younger generation are going to change drastically when free healthcare (in the UK) and other good stuff is taken away. You’re going to need good skills if you don’t have a good-paying job.
    We’ve all been sold lies and Western society is a prison. But that prison was in the States when I was there, hungary when I visited recently etc.. In the UK its the worst. I don’t have any moral obligation to try and save this society.
    One thing I should mention; being a late bloomer makes for a happier life, but everyone won’t want to share in that happiness. Also, you won’t get laid non-stop; you’ll just meet the girls who are the best match for you. Its not as if one day you wake up and everything has changed. It will require lots of pain and effort to get the happiness that we’re all searching for.
    Finally, basing happiness on women is pointless. Most won’t care about you; they only care for themselves and being in the moment. One huge difference between the US and UK is that some people in the US still display ‘exceptionalism’. In the UK, almost everyone is mediocre and the women here don’t care about a go-getter. The guy who is unemployed and wears a fedora hat is more valuable than someone who actually tries in life. Over time, guys have responded to this social engineering by not holding down jobs to the point where my med school is 80% female. And these aren’t sweet girls, they’re [email protected] I loved the US and Canadian students Ive worked with when I was abroad, because they haven’t sunk to the levels of apathy, ignorance and conformity that is prevalent all over the UK. So you may be a late bloomer, but you can’t change society or other people’s lives for the better. Only your own.

    1. It sounds like you’re in the top 1% percent if not top 1/10th of 1%. (Medical school, ability to reason, some experience of other cultures.) It’s a drag, but that means the only women who are going to be able to engage you and really interest you are at least that rare. I think we have to avoid getting bummed (i.e., defined) by the vast maw of average women. We have no interest in being average, and so we are not. Ergo the pool of interesting females is smaller. (Obviously I don’t speak for game strategies, because I am only experimenting with day game, and don’t have any interest in banging chicks simply on the basis of my being able to pick them up.) I only speak for the impulse to spend a few hours a week with an attractive someone with a small waist and a brain, whose head isn’t up her own ass. There are not very many of those. I still have more numbers from online than I can follow up with, though. I think in almost any endeavor the trick is to develop selective eyes and ears, and allow the mediocrity fetishists sink slowly from view.

    2. Am I a late bloomer if I’m 34 and I’m just now starting to take the red pill? Immigrated from India at age 12, went to the US Navy, went to college, got a good job, married at 28 years; regretting it now.

  25. Let’s do a study: how many late bloomers had over-bearing mothers? I did.

    1. Mine was/is a psychopath: a schizophrenic. Note to other fathers: firewall insane people from children. Don’t make the family unit a treatment facility.

    2. I did. After many years of deprogramming and poking around the inside of my head, some things simply make me laugh (sometimes randomly in public places) because people assume you must do this to MAKE someone else do this. Those moms who use their sons as a back up plan or some sorta of 401k are the ones we should sit our sons down and talk about. That being said: I can’t knock dad for leaving. Life is worth living.

      1. The correlation is:
        schizoids have higher (much higher) IQs. They usually are addicted to two or three drugs.
        So you never had a childhood, but you will have a longer, more productive existence, with higher achievement if you can let go of the anger at not having a childhood. None of us did.

        1. Errr. None of us had a childhood. Apologies, and my kingdom for an editing function.

    3. Alcoholic/schizophrenic mother. Feels like she took away 10-15 years of my life.

    4. Alcoholic/schizophrenic mother. Feels like she took away 10-15 years of my life.

    5. No, my mom was a nearly passive/mute bystander while my dad traumatized us with his senseless rages and character attacks, which brainwashed us to believe we were essentially shit and should expect others to reject us with scorn if we ever presented ourselves honestly.

  26. I wonder if there is a correlation between natural introversion and being a late-bloomer. The comments indicate that there may be; it’s natural, if you’re avoiding the social whirl as an adolescent, or being excluded from it, to just spend more time alone, in introspective activities. The behavioral model of the red pill, as I see it, is an acquired model for most people.
    Anyway, if you are interested in understanding how introverts differ from extroverts, or if you are interested in the behavior of natural extroverts because such behavior is useful to you with work and women, I recommend highly Quiet, by Susan Cain. It was one of the more important books I read last year.
    Very few of my friends or business colleagues would say I am anything other than a classic alpha. (If I self-assess, I am inherently a sigma/introvert.) With women I have just stopped pretending they know what they really want, and have adopted a gentleman-alpha wrapper while promising the sexual behavior of a dominant (my thing is to give them the public social graces of a Don Draper, with a much more overt and dominant sexuality behind the scenes), which allows them to rationalize … something. I don’t really care what they’re rationalizing, because I meet an attractive woman who can think her way out of a paper bag about once every five years. In business I am today more directing, and more declarative, with customers than I have ever been: I am more alpha than ever, and I’ve been regarded as a good salesman for a couple of decades. Even in a sales situation now I just tell customers what I can do, what I cannot and won’t, and they appreciate the clarity as most salesmen are pushy suck-ups, a particularly unattractive basket of qualities. A company executive buying your product is likely to be an alpha, or at least aspiring to be one, and the middle managers working for those executives are ‘good guy’ and ‘good girl’ betas; after all, that’s why they are parasitic middle managers. So this all ties together, for me.
    The Cain book will help you, if you are a late bloomer/organic introvert as am I, who manages a public persona that is *not* introverted, to understand clearly those behavioral attributes the world is accustomed to seeing in leaders. Generally speaking, these are not dissimilar from many aspects of game. You can organize a simple table of behaviors and see where you need to step up and adopt some of the behavioral tics of the extrovert in order to achieve influence. So imo, there’s really no significant difference in those behaviors in the realms of enterprise software (my profession), day game (which I am learning to practice) or online dating (where I still meet most women). (I don’t practice or attempt club/bar game, as my target female cohort is older than most of yours, and any female with 15 years of clubbing or bar-hopping is a bit of a freak show, not to mention an STD petri dish with a vagina.)
    The Cain book is also useful if you have to deal with a lot of extroverted attention whores (extroverts who confuse talking fast and loudly with leadership, whether or not they have anything to say), which a lot of professional alphas are. One of the takeaways for me is that to be healthy I need to allocate time to be quiet. For example, I am much more effective if I get up at 3:30 or 4:00 a.m. (as I did today) and spend a couple of hours on reflective self-improvement, before exercising. Then I launch my public persona and organize my personal and professional life, and hit it for another day. I didn’t understand the regenerative power of doing this (any acquired behavior is tiring, and requires its antithesis for regeneration) until I was maybe 42 (late bloomer again). The great thing about the red pill set of behaviors and attitudes, for me, is that it is giving me a framework for lifelong learning and self-improvement — making a virtue of being a perpetual late bloomer, if you will. As in all things, YMMV.

    1. The key point is that introverts require downtime to recharge their batteries, since, according to the classic Jungian model of introversion vs. extraversion, psychic energy flows inwards for the introvert. Anything that’s not natural to the person will feel forced unless balanced with downtime and more familiar behaviors.
      Over time, I learned to generate that “gentleman-alpha” persona that you describe. When I was younger and more socially awkward, I avoided social situations. The worst period was when I held most people in contempt because I realized that they were living and working according to a script that society provided for them, not according to their own true inclinations and what they reasoned for themselves. Women were (and still are) some of the worst because they generally “reason” via groupthink and values, instead of logic and evidence. That was something I realized early on, but didn’t have the Red Pill to balance out the contempt. Now, I just take it in stride and live my life for me and not for a vagina.
      Also, with the Draper persona, I add a bit more external “don’t fuck with me” facial expressions and swagger. It took me a while to develop this, and I can balance this out with biting wit.

  27. “Do not envy those who seem naturally gifted; it is often a curse, as such types rarely learn the value of diligence and focus, and they pay for this later in life.”
    –Robert Greene (Mastery)

  28. to any one under 30…. wait for your time…. because honestly once you hit 30, you have the pick of girls… a 20 year old guy trying to pick up a 20 year old chick who is a 9 or 10 will have the deck stacked against him….. but a 30 year old guy will find it much easier…. at 40 frankly with the right attitude he will find that girl hitting on him…. i went out one night while visiting some friends, the main guy is 8 years younger than me, his two cousins in their early 20s… we were walking down the street and they notice that i was literally turning girls heads…. i wasn’t doing anything, i just had a stride under my feet and a posture i’d developed from working out and a quiet smile on my face and i wasn’t interested in any chicks…. so i guess i just stood out from all the schleps that were eyeing them up….. chase the horse and it runs away……put out some food and water, have a little patience and it will come to you…..

  29. There was a book about this phenomenon: The Geeks Shall Inherit the Earth by Alexandra Robbins. Certainly happened in my high school. All the “cool guys” are insurance salesmen or some other nonsense. The successes are all middle of the road guys.

  30. They coast on what they have—whether that’s good looks, exceptional athleticism, or some privileged access to a special fishbowl—until it runs out.

    Or until they are effectively reprogrammed by marriage and the feminine imperative.

  31. Definite late bloomer here. Although short (5’6″), and never with good grades, I managed to make it through a pretty good university where I learned about zero. I have a stroke of luck that I am actually good looking and naturally ripped, even though I only really exercise twice a week…maybe. What I learned is that personality and effort are everything. In college, I didn’t really get laid so much. I somehow managed to bag a very attractive wife who was the star of my 10 year high school reunion, where all the jocks and popular guys all of a sudden wanted to be my friend. It is funny how people want to be around you when you have a hot wife. I dumped her 10 years later and now, at 37, I get more pussy than ever. I haven’t dated a woman over the age of 25 in a year and a half. Pics of the girls I dumped would make the average man get a chubby. Why was a I late bloomer? Because I learned later that getting girls like that is work, it takes effort. It is basically the same as any sales process. I only prospect hot girls…ONLY. I talk to as many of them as I can when appropriate. I always ask for numbers, and I am not a pushover (usually). Since I always have several girls in the mix, I never am desperate for the attention of any of them, and it shows. People say being short is a huge disadvantage…I disagree. ACTING like you are short is a disadvantage.

  32. Another advantage is that you come to the game with more general knowledge about how the world works, and won’t as easily get sucked into marrying out of ignorance or having a baby.

  33. late bloomer here. kicking ass. now deactivating my facebook for the umpteenth time.

  34. 23, and a natural; but I went through a phase of disassociation so I needed a period of rebuilding. During 21-22 I rediscovered my flair for it, but also an appreciation for the work involved which had I not lost my mojo, I wouldn’t have picked up. I’m very fortunate, and at the top of my game. Nice post!

  35. I was an early bloomer, then a late bloomer, if that makes any sense. Not surprisingly, my in-between stage was dominated by a beta marriage, although I escaped w/out any children or crippling debt. I started coming into my own again about 3 years ago (currently 46), and then soon after took the red pill. Raised by a single Mom, who was a dominate pseudo-feminist. Dad was/is a pussy fuck up. Step Dad is a pussy yes-man. Grandpa was a take-no-shit alpha and thank God for that. Speaking of high school, I recently achieved my goal of getting back down to my old fighting weight of 177 pounds and feel great. To celebrate, I took a trip to Tijuana and absolutely lit up some hot chicas in the Zona Norte! I guess I’m in a bit of a hedonistic phase currently…

  36. in some ways i’m jealous of women more than I am of men who were successfully at pulling hot cute girls in their late teens and early 20’s, or just 20’s, because women are without a doubt valued for their youth more than men are, and since men have to be the initiators in dating and relationships, hook-ups, etc., a womans youth pretty much guarantees her a date or a relationship or hook-up, yes even though women take on the passive role since they don’t actively go after what they want, they have to take what is handed to him but only when they want the guy, when the attraction is mutual, but since they have so many options when they are young they are guaranteed dating and relationship, sexual experience in their late teens or 20’s

  37. Interesting take. I think it still needs to be developed a bit more, but you might really be on to something here.

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