Should A Wise Man Get Married?

In the late 1450s, the Italian humanist Bartolomeo Scala wrote a long letter of advice to Piero de Medici, son of the great Cosimo de Medici.  Cosimo had been the unofficial ruler of Florence for thirty years, and was known for his generosity, learning, and patronage of the arts.  Scala’s letter was written in the form of an essay entitled Whether a Wise Man Should Marry.  It is unique in its sincerity, humor, and frank treatment of its subject matter.  In good classical rhetorical style, the essay first lists the reasons why a wise man should not marry.  It then presents counter-arguments as to why he should marry.

Arguments Against Marriage

For Scala, a “wise man” is he who “diligently pursues peace of mind and tranquility.”  Such a man will pursue actions that tend to increase his peace and tranquility, since any other course would by definition be against his interests.  Since wives, according to the philosopher Epicurus,  are “on the borderline between good and bad,” the wise man would avoid marriage as an unacceptable risk.  That being married was “on the borderline” between good and bad was something Scala considered self-evident, and not requiring any proof to a sexually experienced man.


However, says Scala, wives are certainly not all bad.  Epicurus–in his view–was wrong.  In fact, history is filled with examples of noble, brave, and virtuous women, and Scala warmly gives many vivid examples.  He then cites the Greek philosopher Theophrastus, who laid down the rule that a wise man should marry only if four requirements are met:

1.  The woman should be beautiful.

2.  She should be of good character.

3.  She should come from a good family.

4.  The man should be in excellent health.

Theophrastus (says Scala) believed that since it is rare for all these conditions to be met, the wise man should only rarely marry.  Beauty will always fade with age, Scala argues; every wise man who marries a beautiful woman will eventually find himself with an ugly one.  Regarding a woman’s character, it is always difficult to know it with certainty.  Most women are adept at concealing their faults behind a façade of sweetness.  Scala amusingly notes how odd it is that some men will marry a woman without seeing anything of her body or knowing her character, yet will spend a great deal of time researching the acquisition of lesser things, like a horse, farm, or a business.

Even the oft-cited reason for marriage, the procreation of children, is a delusion, says Scala.  To the wise man, offspring mean very little.  Mothers-in-law will always be a torment.  The consolation of carrying on one’s name after death is a false pleasure.  The idea that a wise man’s children will comfort him in his old age is also a trap:  for children usually bring us more heartache than pleasure.  Although we hope for comfort in old age, we can expect an equal possibility of abandonment or misery, as our children are just as likely to rejoice in our death as to grieve over it.


Engraved portrait of Bartolomeo Scala, around 1460.  

But what about love?  Is this not a valid reason to marry?  Nothing could be farther from the truth, argues Scala.  Love is an emotional disturbance, he says, more akin to insanity.  Quoting Seneca, he adds that love “is a close neighbor to madness.”  More often than not, love “breaks the highest and most generous spirits.”  Marriage cannot save us from solitude, says Scala.  Marriage should never be undertaken to relieve loneliness, for “the wise man is never less alone than when he is alone”.  A man should never think of himself as alone without a wife, “because even solitude is better than evil company.”  Never make a decision for marriage based on fear.

Arguments For Marriage

What sort of “wisdom”, asks Scala, would make us retreat from the world in such a cowardly way as to avoid the risks and hazards of Nature?  Is not a refusal to marry a blasphemy against life itself?  If we are to take Nature as a guide to living, and family life is an imperative of Nature, then anyone to fights against Nature is by definition unwise, counter-argues Scala.  Even the gentlest of animals is roused to ferocity in protecting its offspring.  Is not having offspring a fundamental purpose of man?  The continuation of life should be the concern of anyone who wishes to be called wise.

Furthermore, says Scala, Epicurus’s timid admonition to stay away from the risks of marriage seems more like unmanly fear than true wisdom.  It seems more like a flight from life itself, and this type of fleeing is unbecoming to a wise man.  A wise man needs calculated risks as a way of testing his fortitude and forcing him to improve.  Love and marriage have inspired some of the noblest art, poetry, passion, and sentiment in history.  History abounds with examples of noble, selfless, and virtuous women.  Union with such a woman does not detract from the philosophic life, but actually enhances it.  The right woman is no impediment to the scholar’s life or to philosophic thought.

Critique and Final Thoughts

Though society has changed much since his day, Scala says much of value.  He may be forgiven for equating reproduction with marriage, since in his day marriages were normally arranged between families and not done for romantic love.  He underestimated the importance of law and tradition in keeping marriage a worthwhile institution for men.  He would undoubtedly be shocked to see the present state of the domestic law in the United States, which saddles the man with all the responsibilities of marriage, yet grants him none of the authority that existed in his day.

In short, marriage is much more risky today for men than it was in Scala’s era.  In the 1450s, there were no child support orders backed by threats of imprisonment, no alimony payments, no domestic violence court, no restraining orders, and no police official willing to indulge the lies or fantasies of a jilted female.  Existing institutions supported and cultivated the masculine ethic; men were valued and respected.  This stands in sharp contrast to our own day, where societal institutions denigrate and punish healthy masculinity.

A man in Scala’s day could count on firm institutional backing from the Church, government, family and clan structures, and other existing social systems.  There existed fraternal male-only trade guilds, military orders, religious fraternities, and associations of scholars (like the Academia Platonica in Florence).  The man of today has no such support systems.   Traditional bastions of masculine virtue in the West have been eviscerated or dismantled.

Even the military, for so long the final holdout against feminist inroads, is in the process of being reshaped into a gender-blind (i.e., female dominated) institution.  In this brave new world, the wise man is truly on is own.  He must be stronger, wiser, and more astute than ever before.


In my own opinion, marriage is sensible only if either one of the following scenarios apply:

1.  Marry only if you want to have children and raise a family at that timeIt should be your decision, not your girlfriend’s decision.  It is irrelevant what her opinion is.  This is not a decision that should be made in consultation with her.  Since you will be the one paying for everything, you alone should ask yourself:  do I want children?  It should be a yes or no answer.  If you are unsure, the answer is no.  You must be prepared for a financial commitment that will last decades.

2.  Marriages for companionship should be undertaken only when you have known her for at least several years, and have investigated all aspects of her character.  A written prenuptial agreement should be arranged.  All legal aspects of what you are doing should be clear to you.  Nothing will protect you completely, of course, but at least you can have some firewalls in place to put her on notice that you are aware of your rights.  Nothing in life is risk free.  There are no guarantees of anything in life.  At some point, one must do the best one can and trust to Fate.

With either one of these scenarios, certain other baseline conditions must be met.  You probably should be at least 35 or older; a man needs a degree of real-world seasoning before he approaches his optimal maturity level.  You should sincerely and truly be in love, and I mean the kind of love that would give teeth to the “till death do us part” phrase.  You should have enough experience to know the warning signs of women to be wary of.

Some examples of these are:  excessive lateness, antisocial tendencies (e.g., petty crime, drug use, or gambling), any hint of disdain for traditional feminine roles (e.g., cooking, cleaning, child-rearing), excessive criticism of you in any way, carelessness with money, and over-focus on career.  This list is not exhaustive.  Any flaw a woman has becomes magnified over time.  A small problem now will become a big one later.  You must test her and carefully observe her behavior when evaluating her character.  Do not rationalize, excuse, or sugar-coat bad behavior.  You must be utterly ruthless and clear-headed when evaluating her character.

But if we learn nothing else from Bartolomeo Scala’s advice, I hope the reader will remember the following timeless counsel:  “Let [the wise man] not consider himself to be alone without a wife. For, as we are warned by an indisputable maxim, even solitude is better than evil company.”

Even solitude is better than evil company.  Indeed.  It is advice that has far too often gone unheeded.

Read More:  The Father Of Relationship Game Shares His Secrets

94 thoughts on “Should A Wise Man Get Married?”

  1. Quintus,another splendid article inspired by a major figure of Renaissance. Things have changed concerning marriage, for the worse that is.After accumulating notches on your belt ,which serves to sexually demistify women ,you must ponder on what physical and mental attributes your future spouse should hold. These attributes will be your measuring stick when dating from that point on. Roosh you ‘d better post it on your twitter account.

  2. It would take one hell of a good woman for me to sacrifice the life I have now (freedom to travel when I want, freedom to do what I want, freedom from financing a female’s extravagant lifestyle, freedom to hop up on top of any girl I want) and strap on a ball and chain again.
    Having been there, done that when it comes to marriage, I can’t say that it seems appealing anymore. In fact, if I knew then (10 years ago) what I know now, I probably wouldn’t have ever married to begin with.
    Seeing what happened to other men who have been through the marriage juggernaut, even those from my father’s generation, also makes it less attractive. Some of these men suffered through 20+ years of it before finally reclaiming their freedom. They seem much happier, but are paying dearly for that freedom. The loss of freedom due to marriage is a major consideration that most men don’t take into account. Even with a “good” wife, it’s quite a sacrifice for men to make.
    My son is halfway to 18 years old, and there is some appeal to me of having more children, but the risks outweigh the benefits in modern America. I keep thinking – do I REALLY want to start this whole process of raising kids over again? Especially when I’m halfway to the finish line? With the way things are going in my field (female-dominated hierarchies, no job security, more work/demands and less money, etc.) and a legal system designed to financially rape men, the prospect doesn’t seem wise. If I do have more children, it will be in an environment that is more patriarchal than this one, i.e. when I expatriate.

    1. So far, my own wives have been non-Western women, and wonderful. On wife #2 (wife #1 didn’t make it because I was too much of a cad), and child #1. I can’t see it lasting forever, and I’ll probably want a break from it once I’m fully single again, but I know I want more kids with more women at some point down the road.
      The biggest question is do you have the financial means to support the kind of lifestyle where you jet around the globe, playing daddy to children spread across the planet? If you do, it sounds like a fun way to live to me.

  3. The strumpets and overtly crazy women were easily weeded out in their time. They did not enjoy social or political sanction to fuck their–and yours, and their childrens’–lives up for cash and prizes.
    Scala, if he timetraveled to today, would say the opportunity costs of even bothering to find a decent wife in a sea of bitchy, landwhale feminists isn’t worth it. Just don’t get married.

    1. The other thing about their time, is that women were only allowed to work as prostitutes in most cases when they were unable to get husbands. Or they merely wanted to buy crap on their own. Sound familiar?
      This was in the face of stone cold male indifference, and 15th century Italy is a perfect example of what happens to women when men no longer care. They suffer.

      1. “Women were only allowed to work as prostitutes in most cases when they were unable to get husbands.”
        That seems to be the case in much of the world today. And coming soon to an America near you. (After the whole thing finishes collapsing.)

    2. …in the US!
      Seriously, consider going to countries where patriarchy is still holding on for the time being.

  4. “He(Scala) would undoubtedly be shocked to see the present state of the domestic law in the United States, which saddles the man with all the responsibilities of marriage, yet grants him none of the authority that existed in his day.”
    Shocked? He’d think he’s on a different planet…….and theoretically, he’d be right.

  5. You wrote a good article. A prenuptial agreement is at best only partially effective. It does not protect you against paying child support if you have children, and the woman will receive custody over 90% of the time as the current statistics reveal through the government’s family courts decisions. A prenuptial agreement might also be thrown out in part or completely by a judge in divorce or family court. Remember that divorce and family courts are not courts of law, but rather courts of equity. Human rights or (American) Constitutional laws do not apply in divorce and family courts.

    1. Divorce and Family courts are designed to give women whatever they want at the expense of fairness and justice which also translates into being at the expense of the well being of men, more so the well being of children and most of all the well being of society and civilization at large. We do not live in a society of male supremacy or patriarchy nor even one of equality but rather live in a society of female supremacy or matriarchy. The rule of matriarchy has been accomplished from almost all women’s active support and some women’s acquiescence coupled with most men’s acquiescence and some men’s especially our ruling elite’s active support. We must admit that most men are worthless because they are either senseless or weak willed and usually both before we can even begin to think about how to solve the problem. At one time in all of our countries, men got the children most of the time if there was a divorce. At one time fault divorce was the rule of the land before no fault divorce. The change to either patriarchy or equality will not be had without a much more horrific fight and the suffering of tremendous catastrophe than the change to our present day matriarchy.

      1. It is obvious that the matriarchy is causing the coming of catastrophe as illustrated by the blogger known as The Fifth Horseman in his article “The Misandry Bubble” and others as well, and I agree with most if not all of what he or they stated. Virtually all feminists and the ruling elite and most women don’t even want equality. If they did then 1) they would say that the one who initiates divorce should leave the children, home and most if not all of the assets to the remaining spouse in a no fault divorce, and 2) they would be supportive of being equal to men and women in any fault divorce where one spouse could prove the wrong-doing of another and make fault divorce difficult to obtain. A worse alternative to what I suggested above but better than what we have now would at the very least even a split in marriage should divide children’s time spent with each parent equally, equally split child support payments, eliminate alimony, and equally split all assets including the home. The suggestions above are equality, and of course none of this would be allowed.
        Patriarchy was when the men got the children, home and most of the assets typically speaking in a divorce. Matriarchy is what we have now with women getting the children coupled with child support, possibly alimony, the home and at least half the assets. Equality is what I listed in the previous paragraph above.

        1. Modern Marriage is not the same as it was before. What we have now is licensed romantic affairs and that is not a solid basis for marriage because you need something else more solid to keep it together. Romance is simply so to speak the icing on the cake. Nearly all women in first world nations such as the USA are either married to private companies or failing that they are married to the government these days. Most women are not really married to men in the olden sense of the word these days. In the past a man would work and provide and protect a woman in exchange for sex and children and social status in marriage. That has broken down. Women either own the private company at best or work for the private company at worst and this is usually the best marriage partner. The worst marriage partner is the government and at best she works for it and at worst she collects welfare from it. Most women think that it’s great to be married to the private companies and government these days, but what they don’t realize is that they will be reduced to chattel in the worst way. Instead of having an individual man who will hear her cries and see her tears and try to do the best for her, she will have an organization which will not do so because individual humans especially men are human and can be truly humane while these organizations are inhuman and essentially lacking any ability to be humane. So the question is why do you need a license to be married when it is not real marriage anymore but rather a licensed love affair with some benefits if it stays together but which could prove disastrous if you as a man divorce?

      2. Most men are worthless, and have no desire to fight for anything. Whatever can be had easily, on the fly, is ok.
        No, we will have to become the elite if ever we are to succeed. That takes more time then we have, or we sell our souls, and nothing changes.
        Bitter pill I’m afraid.

        1. I agree. Most men be they Alpha with the ladies or even beta or omega don’t have the character to say no to women enough. Granted, Alphas are virtually always on average better than betas. Even omegas are better than the betas on average. This is because both omegas and alphas see the ugly side of women more often than the betas. The Alphas because they are enjoying women’s ways by getting their desires and needs met, and the omegas because they have been treated with extraordinary neglect or cruelty by women by not getting their needs and desires met are the reason why this is so. Even then, the alphas and omegas need red pill wisdom to see women properly. This something betas usually don’t fully understand even with red pill wisdom until the lady destroys him one day. Few men are Alphas and omegas and most are betas. The problem is men want their sexual and romantic desires fulfilled even if they have red pill wisdom, and so they still fail when it comes to women because men become blinded. Women don’t need or necessarily want men anymore because their needs for protection and provision are being filled while men’s desires or needs for sex and romantic love are not is why most men are so blind and weak. It’s why Minter did what he did. I really wish he hadn’t, but I’m not surprised. It hasn’t been discussed on the Manosphere as much as in the past, but the system is designed to cause men to fail as well as to supplicate to women. The system is winning against men and working as it was designed to do. Please read all my comments if you have not done so already.

        2. Speaking of Minter, I admit that I may have seemed sympathetic in my comments about him in the past. After reading Roosh’s article in his other blog today, I’ll have to admit maybe I should not have been. It was not my intent to be too sympathetic to him, but I do understand why he did what he did. He went for broke with Kate because he lacked better options. He was reduced to being omega and had a chance to become beta so he took it, and most men would. If you want to reduce your risk of becoming a woman’s love slave you have to do as well as Peter Andrew Nolan through your own efforts and sheer dumb luck. Nolan can act like an alpha with women because he has red pill wisdom, good observation now and strength of character along with high status in part because his job pays well enough. The older you get the more you will probably need wealth, power and maybe fame to succeed with women to give you status along with better GAME. You don’t need these things as much when you are younger and can survive more on GAME alone. Marriage requires even more GAME to succeed with women than even the dating world, and marriage probably will require higher status through wealth, power and fame too in order for you to be successful than the dating world as well. You have to be a red pill alpha which is the best position to be in. Even being a red pill omega is better than being a red pill beta. The danger for red pill omegas comes when they move up into being red pill betas. The danger lessens to it’s least amount but never fully goes away when you become red pill alpha. Being red pill is of course always better than being blue pill. It takes knowledge, good observation and strength of character which most men will never have to avoid marriage and to recognize when oneitis creeps up and few men are able to do this. All of what I have said about status, GAME(seduction skills), power, wealth and fame is even more necessary now in the WEST to succeeed with women in marriage and dating than in the past, so why get married? It’s become too high of stakes to engage in with less reward, but most men still marry to attempt getting steady supply of romance and sex even though it has become more of a trap than in the past. Marriage is declining as more men don’t want to marry and even as even many more men because of what the system has done to them are unable to marry.

  6. From an institutional standpoint, I see why marriage can be a downside. But for many Asians, passing on your genes is of ultimate importance (although we might not phrase it that way). No descendants means the end of your bloodline. Do Westerners not care about this at all?

    1. Think it has to do with how tradition is ridiculed. We aren’t proud to be heirs, and so we’re not proud to have heirs. Might have started as a productive “individualism”, but it’s gone of the tracks into nihilism.

    2. Westerners do care, for the most part, EAN. In general Asia is more conservative than the West in this regard, but there are still powerful traditional inducements to get men to marry in the West. The reason so many Western men are rent with anguish over this issue is because the traditional rules have been thrown out the window. Marriage now carries with it a very serious risk for men. Yet, we still are hard-wired to want to be caretakers for a woman. Hence the conflict.
      By the way, man, get an avatar up there. I want to see something striking, something worthy of your good comments.

      1. Agreed.
        I may not be wise but I suspect I will become dumber if I get married.
        QUOTE: “1. Marry only if you want to have children and raise a family at that time. It should be your decision, not your girlfriend’s decision.”
        QFT Qunitus, and may i add that this is where condoms play a vital role, because so many skags pull the “oopsy” pregnancies with a man, getting knocked up on purpose to entrap him. When a female is pregnant with your child, regardless if you consented to have a child or not, she has the courts, police and SWAT on her side and you are stuffed and mounted.
        And in fact, dispose of your used condom yourself. A man’s jizz, in the eyes of an evil calculating bitch can very much be like a key that locks handcuffs on him.

      2. We still are hard-wired to want to be caretakers for a woman:
        While doing some grocery shopping earlier in the year, someone pulled the fire alarm forcing everyone to stop their shopping and exit the store. After the firemen gave the all clear, the mob started to rush in. There was a single mom standing in front to the left of me (I guessed she was a single mom because of the way she clung to her kid, and the way she looked around with a hint of desperation). Without even thinking, I immediately held back the mob so that she and the child wouldn’t be shoved and jostled in the mayhem.
        I’ve shared this story before with a friend because it really took me by surprise. Up until that point, I had enjoyed mischievous antics like letting doors close on women (if I could do it and have it appear to be an accident) and short stopping on cross walks to get that jump of surprise (the need to do these things has since passed and left indifference in its place). It really puzzled me though that despite my views, I would endure the frustration and physical pressure of everyone behind me for this woman, and more importantly, I would do so automatically, as if it were my default setting.
        It does seem that it is hard-wired in men to protect women and children, but looking back on my childhood, I was completely indifferent to the sex of an individual right up until I began to realize women were different from me. This difference led me to ignore girls for the most part (except for my natural sexual curiosity), and if one insisted on hanging with us, it was at her own expense. Later on, when puberty hit (and after years of being taught the delicate nature of women), a reversal of sorts occurred. For the most part, I held back all of the “aggressive” impulses that were okay for me to share with my male friends but not with women, and in their place I exalted (and perhaps exaggerated) mighty Eros.
        This may be more true for me than anyone else, but my theory is this. In our natural state, beyond sexual desire, men are utterly indifferent to women. This need not be the case, but because of the course that human women have taken in their development, they have become completely useless beyond utilitarian and sexual purposes (I say human women because as far as I can tell, other species aren’t plagued with the same phenomena/neuroses). Men throw their lives away and sacrifice themselves for women for the same reasons suicide bombers do for their totems. Suicide in and of it self is a substitution for murder. Likewise, murder is a substitution for suicide. But sacrifice and suicide are qualitatively different. In sacrifice, we kill our selves for something we feel ambivalent towards: we both love and hate the object. Our indifference and “natural aggression” have been repressed by our sexual desires. It’s as if we say in a conversation with ourselves, I want to kill her (for whatever the reason), but because I want her sexually and such an act is sure to chase her away from me, I’ll prove to her how far removed I am from that act; I will sacrifice myself for her! This of course, given the mental equation, has the added benefit of chasing her into my arms – the exact opposite, to my delight, of the effect of my original wish.
        The most ticklish thing about all of this is that the wish to kill her comes from repressing our natural aggression. Natural aggression repressed is magnified into sadism which then must be denied and transformed. Once natural aggression is accepted (once Eros ceases to be exaggerated), indifference sets in. No more sacrifice, no more anger/aggression (which, troubles my peace). Only indifference punctuated by the odd sexual encounter.

    3. White people have been shamed into not caring about their own self-interest (i.e. continuing their heritage/bloodline) by liberalism. It’s going to bring them extinction if things don’t change. That’s not a matter of opinion. Just look at the demographics of children under 5 in any Western nation. Many parts of the U.S. are going to look just like Mexico as the next generation rises. And many parts of Europe will resemble the Middle East. And those are only the beginnings of a demographic tidal wave that’s about to hit.

    4. Some do, some don’t.
      The rules are simply different. In a conservative Asian society the relationship between parents and kids is “regulated” at a cultural level. There are certain expectations from both parts, reinforced by both family and society. (See China: “leftover women”, in case of divorce the house goes to who bought it, and so on.) There’s a sense of direction. A sense of duty, and a sense of shame if such duty goes unfulfilled. It sounds stifling and in a sense it is, but having kids or a family (hence, preserving the bloodline) is less of a bet.
      In the Western world we tossed aside any semblance of rule and tradition. Parents do what they want, women do what they want and kids do what they want. There’s only the individual. Nobody can control anybody.
      Wives can leave when they want, ruining you financially. Kids stop listening to you and listen to Bieber or Beyoncé or whoever the moron du jour is, and there’s nothing you can do. Your authority is non-existent. Your “rules” are really suggestions.
      Under such circumstances how can someone possibly hope to preserve his bloodline?
      Can you imagine using that argument with a Western woman? You’re lucky if she deigns to hyphenate her surname adding yours. (After hers, of course.)
      So much for your bloodline.

    1. He’d probably launch into a scathing diatribe against Scala’s letter excoriating the ridiculousness of its premise that marriage could possibly be beneficial in any way, and after he finished, then go do everything Scala said to do.

  7. “After accumulating notches on your belt ,which serves to sexually demistify women ,you must ponder on what physical and mental attributes your future spouse should hold.”
    Wise words. One shouldn’t marry before he has X number of notches. Everything before is just your desire to pump sugarcoated as love.

  8. This is actually a good tie-in to Christian’s latest article.
    I’d like to point out that Epicureanism- defined by seeking pleasure and avoiding pain, often contradicts itself on its own terms, so Scala was right to criticize him.
    Still, I don’t think I can endorse marriage. There’s no logical reason why one can’t have children or long-term female companionship without it. There’s simply too much risk no matter how good the woman is. I resolved never to get married because I knew it was a raw deal, even before discovering game.

  9. No Q, his advice is far too often left unsaid. Every young man needs to hear these words, and it is intentionally denied him. For if all men carried on this way women would be submitted in a fort night. The day is coming, not too far off; and the cackling is only on a low roar.
    Yet when teh day does come, women will wail and weep and beg for any man to listen. They will be met with a far colder, and steelier apathy then what they have given us for the last forty to 200 years or more.
    I have always said, technology is for men. Women know it, that is why there is no male pill available in the states, and no mandatory DNA testing at birth. The four horseman’s hoofs of the coming femapocalypse are heard in the feminist camp; and they cower though they don’t have a clue as to how many years they have to prepare for their coming.
    When it happens, I will merely watch, and only save those in my family I can. The rest, well I give them the same thing they gave me when I said family court was against me…good luck with that.

    1. Technology is for men? Never mind universities are becoming increasingly dominated by women, women live longer, oh, and that reproductive technology? If sex-selection technology becomes available, it’s expected girls will be requested twice as often as boys. Men and women (individual results may vary) have different skills sets, it just so happens technology is going in a direction that favors inter-personal skills to mechanics. The future for men does not look that great, so maybe instead of complaining about women adapting and deviating from traditional roles, those concerned with preserving masculinity should focus on figuring out how men fit in the world today.

      1. lots of glittering generalities there KV63 your garbage doesn’t fool me

  10. Fantastic article!
    It´s a real privilege to be able to learn from the great treasure of knowledge that is the western philosophical tradition. It´s a pity that many people fail to notice it or simply choose to ignore it.
    I find it reassuring and comforting to know that great minds of antiquity shared similar thoughts and impressions with us.

    1. Just wanted to say thanks for the introduction to Scala. I saved the quote about a wise man “diligently pursues peace of mind and tranquility” to my list of favorite quotations.
      It should make for some interesting reading.

    2. I’m thankful for your tip and I had already procured a pdf of his text. Alas, much to my dismay, I found that it is indeed written in Latin and I can’t read it.

  11. quintus: bravo my friend. have printed this article and shall read it regularly. you are the greatest asset of this website.
    can i propose an annual meeting in florence for RoK members?

      1. florence is the city that gave mankind the eternal gift of the renaissance…meeting there would be fitting for us, don’t you think?
        i can imagine RoK members sitting at scudieri or 4 leoni discussing ideas and ideals.
        if you’d like to discuss this further, would you be amenable to a chat via Skype?

        1. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        2. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        3. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        4. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        5. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        6. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        7. Would love to see Firenze again. The wealth of art and beauty it is packed with is just amazing. You truly feel surrounded by a culture of excellence. It would definitely be a fitting hub for launching a ‘new renaissance’.

        8. let’s starting planning. fall / winter / spring preferable in firenze because prices are much lower . i used to live there when i was a music student so i know the city rather well, and would be most pleased to act as tour guide to my RoK brethren.

        9. That’s great, rez. I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t been there for more than a few days’ vacation, but I speak Italian more or less like a native so I could also help with the ‘navigation’ too 🙂 How about, as a tentative mark, we shoot for say September / October of next year (to avoid peak season as you say)? We do need to allow a reasonable time for people to plan well in advance for such a trip.

  12. Something to consider….
    I’ve got two close friends, one married 10 years and one married 20 years.
    The one married 10 years is seriously contemplating faking his own death while the one married 20 years wouldn’t care if his death was faked or not……………..

    1. I believe your comment is 100% true. I don’t think it is just humorous.
      I can absolutely recognize what is being said, as I think many a long
      term married man can.

    2. reminds me when I was with my ex and felt so empty inside from being emotionally drained that dying didn’t seem that bad…imagine being married for 20 years like that…wow.

    3. The only good thing about marriage nowadays is that a married man no longer fears death…in some cases, he even longs for it.

  13. The concept that I think is most important regarding the modern marriage is leverage. Legal and social leverage. Married women have it and married men don’t. Upon becoming married, a man begins his existence of living in a relationship with one hand tied behind his back. You can’t be the man of the house when it is clear that you’re not the one with the power.
    Children are the ONLY reason to get married. You always sacrifice for children. Nowadays, you’re a borderline martyr if you get chewed up through the divorce/child support grinder.

  14. 1st scenario works for me. I don’t want to have family and children, and marrying a companion seems pointless to me. Particularly since it only brings responsibilities, and not a single benefit.

    1. Defiant to the last, ay?
      I’ve heard this battle cry from many a young and/or temporarily disillusioned man, nearly 100% of whom end up married within a decade of uttering it.
      There’s no use arguing with them, though, because they will vehemently deny that they will ever marry, right up until the moment that they marry.
      Then, at that point, they act as if they’d never stood there for years, shaking their fists at the world, proclaiming their proud and unwavering independence would last for all eternity.
      Love conquers all… even youthful defiance.

      1. Well, do you believe love between man and woman lasts for decades ? So far, i could tell i was in love with a girl i have seen once or twice in my life and know little about. Getting closer with her, meant getting farther away when it comes to attraction.
        More important part of my decision is based on the fact that i don’t want children.
        Then again, i might have it in my DNA. My father married quite late.

  15. “Even solitude is better than evil company. ” -> For the W I S E man this is true.
    The problem you see in todays women can also be found in todays men. There are (almost) no wise men left in the west. The problems and errors we see in women can only exist because the men are so weak.
    In a healthy society none of your points 1 or 2 would make any sense. Why?
    1. The reason for sex used to be babies. Marry a wife leads to sex, leads to babies. This is the natural order of things. Our society – thats women AND men – tries to change nature. That never worked in human history and will not work this time. Enjoy it while we still can. It is a good life, it is fun but it still is against nature and never passed the test of time.
    2. “prenuptial agreement etc etc etc” This is trash. A real marriage is when the man takes his wife under his roof. His wife, as in “his car” or “his house” – he is the master, lord and king under his roof, the woman does as she is told. If this does not apply you know there is something wrong with the tiny part of the world, where you happen to live. History may tolerate such abominations for a few decades, but not for centuries. Whoever failed here in the past, is now dust.

    1. “The problems and errors we see in women can only exist because the men are so weak.” Bingo. The problems we see in the West happened because men allowed them to happen, whether through weakness or folly. With the amount of men I see wearing backward baseball caps and sports jerseys, I don’t expect to see much improvement soon. Since our society legally forbids men from being “kings of their castle”, it’s folly to marry in America.

  16. Arguments for marriage:
    Sex with college aged hotties whom you can mold into your ideal girl through bitch training,
    and if all else fails, you can replace her quite easily. Do you realize
    how much sexier an 18 year old girl’s body is compared to a 25+ year old. One
    is like out of this world, and the other one is stale bread.

    Arguments against marriage:
    Women age.. terribly
    Women’s personality changes over time
    Women’s health may go down the drain or she may choose to chop off her breasts like Angelina Jolie
    Women can name your child anything she wants.. with or without your permission. She could give your son her last name instead of yours and you’ll be allowed to pound sand in protest
    Live in constant fear of your woman transforming over months into an intolerable bitch because she fell into the wrong feminist group of women and was influenced by them
    Live in constant fear of divorce, having everything you ever worked for taken away from you
    Live in constant fear of false child abuse accusations, domestic violence, her army of white knights is just a phone call away (the police)
    She can cheat on you with another man and she will still get your kids, your house, your money and your balls

      1. Did you misread the message?? Never sign a marriage contract under any circumstances – and there is no “living life of fear”. Pay attention.
        ( Is that now “masculine” enough for you? )
        Jesus Christ.

    1. For the feminists, an argument for marriage, avoiding catatonia:
      “How Your Cat Is Making You Crazy
      Jaroslav Flegr is no kook. And yet, for years, he suspected his mind had been taken over by parasites that had invaded his brain. So the prolific biologist took his science-fiction hunch into the lab. What he’s now discovering will startle you. Could tiny organisms carried by house cats be creeping into our brains, causing everything from car wrecks to schizophrenia?”

  17. It’s really interesting seeing the more recent articles exploring marriage/keepers. I personally think that marriage is only a worthwhile option if you are trying to have kids and even then you also need to seriously evaluate your potential spouse in every aspect. The LTR is something that hasn’t been looked at so thoroughly and I encourage some of the older guys who have been in a few to share their thoughts on post redpill LTRs.

  18. Thought provoking article as always. I worry about demographics. Less westerners . Less patriarchs. Less Americans. Less Boys /Men…We aren’t replicating ourselves. How can we pass on Red Pill Wisdom /philosophy?? Who will we teach Game to???

    1. My best answer: Try to keep the torch lit, stay positive, constructive, and never sell out or surrender. Nurture your spirit, for remember that every man can be broken by despair. Don’t be that man.

  19. Wondering out loud…. Who would be the better single parent men or women?? The stats on single moms ain’t good. Most of our social pathologies can be traced to single parent ( chick only) households. What if this was reversed? My guess men might be better. Men tend to be stricter. Enforce discipline. More logical. Sure the daughter may wear a courderoy vest and wading boots to school but fashion sense and make up ain’t important and can be learned later. Single dads raising sons is always better…

    1. I was a single dad to three boys. I think they turned out exceptional but maybe I’m just bragging. My dad thought I was raising “free range kids” but I made sure I offered them an environment where they could roam safety and yet test themselves. Children should have room to grow. Boys especially need to create and face challenges – like getting busted for drinking – getting roughed and cuffed can create an appreciation of the virtues of being law-abiding.
      Single moms tend to produce wimpy sons I’ve found, based on my own experience! It took years in a male-dominated environment to complete my education as a man.

    1. I checked that out. It’s good to know that guys of every era in history were thinking about the same questions. His list of “pros” and “cons” sounds a lot like what other great men have thought.

  20. Another great posting by Mr. Curtius, who is by far my favorite contributor here.
    A brief look at the history of Italian politics of the period would have shown the vital importance of family connections. A man without family was naked in power struggles then. Today, this is less so but it hasn’t gone away – look at the Kennedy clan, Bill and Hillary, and the two Bush presidencies plus governorcies..
    I can vouch for the fact that minor annoyances and shortcomings of a woman can become magnified over the years. Before my current marriage, I made a list of her pros and cons. All the cons have gotten worst while the one pro that trumped all the rest (great sex) has diminished greatly over the almost 30 years together. One the other hand, some of her positives have grown over time, or at least in my appreciation of them.
    Children can be one of life’s greatest rewards. No doubt many will be clunkers but on the whole the world goes on and that means most kids turn out better than just OK.
    Still, the basic, universal core advice is, chose carefully. Know yourself, then know the woman before you become bride and groom.

  21. Deevolution of humans in the western world is all too real, and it’s because of the lack of strong males and male role models instituted by a legal and educational system that depends far too much on libertarian ideals.

  22. This is one of the best posts I have ever read, full of wisdom and truths as well as paradoxes and conflicts in every human heart. I think genetically we are still programmed like the species is on the verge of extinction. Which we are not any more.

  23. If you marry, marry someone non-Western, or at least, non-Anglo and non-Northern European. I’m going to be marrying a Middle-Eastern woman and could not be happier about it because I know their family well. While the women in the family are fun-loving and adventurous, they are also very traditional and adhere to their proper roles. It took becoming a Muslim, but so be it.
    Part of the feminist decay is that families as they used to exist, do not for many people. So meeting someone is a risk when you do not know how the family is, their lineage, and their character which they have imparted to their children.

  24. Good arguments on either side. The chick I’ve been seeing is right in the middle. She puts out, but isn’t slutty, and still believes in traditional roles But she’s really opinionated and won’t hesitate to bring it out. She’s mostly a perfect girl.
    While wise, this text points out two sides of the same coin. Should I consider marriage, or simplify my life and make her another notch on the bedpost? I just joined, sorry for being late in the game.

  25. Well, this is an older post by ill weigh in.
    I was a fucking idiot and got married when I was 18. I thought I was in love with this woman. The warning signs were there…fat mom, sad dad, liberals to the highest level, the girl was pushy and wouldnt shut up…my friends all warned against it and my parents were indifferent about it. They were married at 19 and have had a strong long marriage. I thought nothing would go wrong.
    A year later the bitch wasnt working ever and im making 15k a year at a shitty job and ended up joining the military. Paycheck after paycheck got gobbled up by this whore who never cleaned, cooked, or held a job. I would have looked past the job had she taken care of the house. 4 years later I met a woman who became my best friend. I never cheated on my whore wife, but goddamm did I want to. I found out she cheated on me while I was in basic training. I was devestated even though by this time she was a fat slob.I ended up filing for divorce and kicking her out. She refused to live where I was stationed so I simply took all my money out of the bank and sending her papers. She signed them drunk at a kinkos and I luckily got out scot free. I was divored at 25.
    Now 5 years later im engaged to the girl who was my best friend who is 30 and still smoking hot(hotter than when we met). She cooks, cleans, takes care of the house and goes to school full time. I knew she was the one I wanted to marry and was sure when I asked two questions.
    1. What would you do if we never got married?
    Her answer: I’d still be here taking care of your dumb ass and even if we broke up, unless tragic I’d still wanna hang out. But no babies unless im married because im not a fucking slut.
    2. How do you feel about a prenup?
    Hell yes I want a prenup if we get married. You never know what happens with jobsand life in general, I dont think you would screw me, but when I graduate ill be making bank. Anger makes people screw each other over. Thats not ok.
    So now im engaged again, oh her mom is smoking hot and she is Czech. Boom.

  26. My husband has a chart that he purchased some time after we married (married 24 years 2013) The very first line reads: Be careful whom you marry. It will determine 99% of your happiness or misery. He tells me every day he chose well. :o)
    I would say some of these are dead on about feminine skills, not putting up with her bad behavior or excuse it, and criticism. I needed a refresher course called Fascinating Womanhood. Ladies, read that book and your marriage will improve 100 fold. Mine did!! I became the happy lass he would swoon over when I looked at him and smiled!
    What I would like to add is keeping herself in shape. ( don’t you love the cat calls, ladies?) and for heaven sake, smile at your man when he walks in through the door at the end of the day! Some days are more stressful for him than others. (take the time to refresh your make up or put a pretty ribbon in your hair) You just might lift his spirit for the evening! He might even thank you for it but NEVER expect it, fix what he loves to eat EVEN if you don’t like it, give him respect, freedom, admiration and allow him to lead his family. Stick by him good or bad choices and have unshakable faith IN him. Accept him AS HE IS and no this does not change if he is not a Christian. Oh and listen to your man without interrupting him. If he wants your opinion he will ask you. (I am sorry but you have to earn his trust to offer an opinion he can respect. I had to ) Other wise don’t flap your wings loudly. :o)

    1. A wise church leader told the wife and I the following “choose your love and love your choice”

    2. Girl, yes! 🙌 I personally hate cat calls unless it’s from my man. I want the man I love to objectify me only. Lol. But yes everything else is on point. When you take care of your man first and he’s a good man, he’ll take care of you!

  27. the article by ray wolf ” how women use love as an excuse to extract a man’s resources and deplete his life energy” that in my opinion should be at #1.

  28. Excellent advice. I wish I would have read it before I got married (and divorced).

  29. I don’t think any of you should get or be married.
    You will all be terrible companions in life and that’s why your marriages will or are be terrible. You’re view of women is disgusting. I really can’t believe there’s people like you in the world .
    Don’t get married you could never make your partner happy and would be awful at it. Stay single.

  30. A good read… so many stupid people marry within a year! From my experience around 2-3 years (loving together as well), you work out if you want to spend your life together or not! This is the time period where you learn each other faults and if you love each other enough, you will stay together.

  31. An emphatic NO!!! Don’t get married. The modern women is so vain, arrogant, superficial and useless that they’ll divorce you if you leave the toilet seat up. Fuck that!

  32. One should not marry to feel accomplished, you have to be filled so that you can marry. But in contrast a single man is never filled. That’s one hell of a dilema, but in the end it does not matter: it’s obvious that the wise man should marry, soon or later.
    Have you ever loved a woman? One will never know love without marriage because love only exist inside marriage.
    To say you don’t need to marry is to say that you don’t need love. If you really don’t need love, then I really envy you.

    1. This was beautiful. I also feel that the right person can fill your life in ways that money and career can’t. But the wrong person! Whoa nelly! Lol!!!

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