11 Things I Learned In 2014

2014 was a big year for me personally. I learned a lot about myself, and view it as a sort of mini-awakening following my true awakening a few years back when I first made myself aware of the “red pill” ideology. With this new revelation, I started seeing society and people as a whole differently. I grew as a person more so than I believe I ever have in my life.

Why exactly this happened now is a question I will be answering speculatively. Perhaps the impetus was my move out of Los Angeles and into what I perceive to be the best city in America. Perhaps I’m just getting older. Whatever the reason, I thought it may make for a fun article and, more importantly, just may give some of you folk a shortcut to reaching the same revelations—assuming of course that you agree with them.

1. NYC Lives Up To The Hype


It’s probably not a coincidence people from Frank Sinatra to Jay-Z have dedicated songs to this city. Quite frankly, and I know this sounds trite, there is no city like it in the world. And I’ve been to quite a few. As a single man, there is an endless number of women, who are attractive to boot and outnumber the men so the sexual marketplace is in your favor. I won’t repeat myself but you can find the details here. Moreover any type of woman you desire can be found, from Russian to model to hipster to college.

Aside from girls, the city still carries with it an aura of old America. People are rough, direct and don’t take bullshit. The true New Yorkers don’t care one bit about being politically correct. My barber stops and comments on girls asses as they walk by. One of my clients here—and I’ll never forget this—said to his employees “if your vacation request starts with ‘my wife…’ it will be denied.”

2. The Freedom Of Not Seeking Validation

This actually started late 2013 but has carried over significantly into 2014. I went from bragging about my conquests to being rather silent about them. And what I started to notice more in 2014 is how much others do this. Showing me pictures of girls they are dating or banging, telling me about how great a body was or how unbelievable the sex was.

When you become aware of what this truly is, you realize it is a form of seeking approval. I am no angel and still engage in this to a degree but have toned it down to almost being nonexistent. Once you recognize all that matters is if you are happy or satisfied, it is quite freeing.

3. American Girls Are Still Undesirable Idiots

Here is a list of random things American girls told me in 2014:

1. “Oh, so my longest walk of shame was waking up one morning in New Jersey and…” (on our first date)

2. “So…are you going to call a cab or what’s the plan?” (after sex in her apartment)

3. “Do you ever use those blue boxes on the street people put mail in?”

4. “If I ever get married…” (girl who was 25)

5. “I’m a social justice warrior.” (girl’s response to my asking what she does)

6. “I’ve never seen an avocado in its natural state!” (during date when I’m making guacamole)

4. Russian Girls Are Still My Number One

No matter where I travel to, no matter how many girls I interact with or date, nothing comes close to my attraction to Russian girls. When I hear a girl speak Russian walking around Manhattan my ears perk and my penis awakens. I was recently in a central American country and towards the end of my two-week trip I happened to meet a Russian girl. I was immediately reminded of why I love them so much. Some people love chocolate. I love Russian girls.

5. Hungarian Girls Love Giving Blowjobs And Have No Concept Of Fidelity

I spent some time in Budapest in 2014 and noticed a pattern in most Hungarian girls. This pattern is delineated in the heading above and really does not require more explanation.

6. I Lost My Desire For Constant New Lays

For the first time since getting into game, my numbers went down in a subsequent year. Yet I was much happier this year than previous years. From September through December, I was stuck in trial and incredibly busy with work. This cut into my normal routine of finding girls to go on dates with at night.

When trial was over, I decided to stick to my schedule of not dating and instead fill it with time for myself doing anything else. What I realized is that I barely missed going on dates with random girls. Maybe I’m getting old, or I’m getting tired, but I’d rather read a book or grab dinner with friends than go on another date with a tinderella or random 6-7 I met out one night.

7. I’m Losing Interest In Night Game Fast

My favorite girls this past year, and those that are the highest quality in both looks and personality, were girls I met in the day, through friends, our outside the country. The decline of America is most apparent in its bars and clubs where girls are, simply put, used up whores.

The girl I’m currently seeing I met in the daytime. The hottest three girls of the year consisted of one foreign and two through friends. And when you combine that with the cost of night game in a place like New York, and the inevitable hangovers that accompany such activities, my desire has fallen immensely.

8. Friends And Family Should Not Be Ignored

The last point brings me to this one. I used to prioritize dates and going to bars at night over hanging out with friends or going to see my family. I’ve now flipped my priorities and am much happier. Good friends and a strong family connection are irreplaceable—don’t take them for granted.

9. The Tom Brady Rule

First, watch this video. Then understand that if a girl is attracted to you, a lot of what you do does not matter. She will still want to see you, want to fuck you, and want to be with you. So stop spending time crafting that perfect text or worrying about how many days to wait to call her or seek another date.

My single friends and I often shoot the shit and when one of us tries to get our opinion on how to handle a girl (myself included), a lot of times we joke and just remind him by saying “Tom Brady.” We often overemphasize the perfect way to handle a girl. This isn’t to say you can text her after your first date and thank her profusely with seventeen emoticons and not have a negative impact. But to a reasonable point, it really does not matter.

10. I Think I Want A Kid

I have no explanation for this, but this is easily the most surprising epiphany that arose for me personally in 2014. I actually think I want a kid (well, son to be specific). I don’t know why, I can’t explain it, but I believe I do. However, I can’t imagine being married. So now I have this odd paradox where I think I want offspring, but I don’t want a wife, but it seems a familial unit is the best environment for a kid to have.

11. I Want To Help Men With Women

The Roosh forum has a section for “newbies” that I tend to peruse from time to time. I also know people personally that have sex maybe once a year at most. It hurts me to see so many men struggling out there with women in this terrible westernized world .

I was never a natural, but after dedicating my time and effort I have more or less figured it out. So call this my altruistic or charitable side developing, but I want to give back. How I’m not exactly sure. It will have nothing to do with money as my day job is a lot more profitable than this could be..but I have some ideas brewing for 2015.

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187 thoughts on “11 Things I Learned In 2014”

  1. How old are you Dawg-man? Your year sounds like a transition year that lots of guys go through in their late 20’s to early to mid 30’s. Except the NYC thing, which frankly I don’t get. Can’t carry a gun there, they nanny state every stinking decision on your behalf, cameras everywhere, high crime, straight up confiscatory taxation, unbearable NY accent (just a me thing), “stop and frisk” (is that gone now? Only possible in NYC, bunch of Stasi quacks), and the cops will beat you for looking at them cross-eyed. Fuck NYC. (just a rant, and actually a bit OT, just felt the urge)
    But otherwise, yeah man, recall a lot of those transition moments myself, except for the Hungarian girl thing, no real experience with them to speak of. Hot though.

    1. #6-8 is precisely what I am going through now at 30. When it comes to New York, I wouldn’t want to live in the city or tri-state area again, but I still think for quality, quantity, and diversity of women, it is the best option on the planet.

      1. No question on the quality women. Just too high a price to pay for me to want to ever step foot there again in my lifetime.

        1. I completely understand. And as far as the political correctness goes, while I do think Yankee assholes tend to be more direct, they still vote like the most PC retards on the planet so I’m not sure how beneficial that is.

        2. I’m thinking that this is done on purpose.
          Make the most women-filled place the most expensive place.
          It’s like the whole country is run like a night club. You want the velvet room with a more agreeable girl ratio you gonna pay big and adhere to more rules.

      1. NYC has a wider bell curve than other places. It’s more awesome on the far right end, and sucks worse on the far left end than most places.

    2. NYC is a fun place to visit. For 3 or 4 days NYC is great, but then I get tired of it and just want to go home. I could never live there.

      1. NYC blows. This guy must be in his 20s. once you hit 30, trust me, you wont like it anymore. Its snowing right now, minus 5 degree wind chills this weekend, and more snow on monday. Rents have skyrocketed since 98 or 99 thanks something Pataki and Giuliani did for the landlords. 2500 bucks for a one bedroom in a 6 story, lower east side walkup(it was a ghetto, now they call this shit “pre war”, some of the most depressing railroad apts you’ll ever see). In addition to the shitty winter, we have a shitty summer, where 95 and humid translates to 110 and humid in the subways. Women are ALWAYS looking for a better deal here, so you better enjoy your short term relationships…

    3. “Can’t carry a gun there . . .”
      And think that should apply to the Adirondacks as well. The City fucks up the whole state, which is actually mostly farmland and forest.
      Can’t even use a Wrist Rocket to pop rats at the dump any more. Felony possession.

      1. That’s how it is in all blue states. Normally all of it “red” except for the one or two ugly blue cities full of hordes of welfare recipients and entitlement driven monsters who vote on cue for the Left.
        My solution to this is simple: Make every single county in the U.S. have 1 electoral vote. 1 county, 1 EC vote. No exceptions. And no more counties could be created, no counties subdivided, all counties remain precisely in statis exactly as they exist today from a border perspective.
        This would give a handful of ranchers in a given Wyoming county as much power as the entire city of NYC. Rural Ohio farmers at a town hall meeting would have as much electoral clout as Cleveland. And so on.
        The Left would *disappear* from the history books overnight.

        1. Last election NYC, Syracuse and Buffalo voted anti-gun Cuomo. The rest of the state, minus one county (rich city folk vacation land), even those that are normally rather to the blue side of purple, voted single issue Second Amendment, but we weren’t enough by numbers.
          Under your system, yes, we would have been rid of the bastards and I wouldn’t have to be making plans to move back to Vermont.
          The funny thing is, the anti-gunners have forced me to use a long gun to pot rats when I was actually happier with a slingshot.

        2. Isn’t going to Vermont like going to Leftist Heaven? Is Bernie Sanders still their rep?
          On the bright side, the one thing they get 100% correct is their stance on the 2nd.

        3. “Isn’t going to Vermont like going to Leftist Heaven?”
          Naaah, that would be Massachusetts. Vermont isn’t leftist in the contemporary sense, it’s liberal in the classical sense. In that sense it’s actually more American conservative than the mid-west.
          That’s why they understand that the only arms permit they need is the constitution (and will rely on their own if the Federal isn’t conducive).
          They elect Bernie not because he’s a socialist, but because he gives the inside the Beltway Republicrats heartburn.
          Of course New Yorkers are doing their best to ruin that. Funny thing about people from NYC; if they dislike it enough to leave, the first thing they do when they get to a new place is note how unlike The City it is and start right in on trying to transform it into everything they said they were trying to get away from.

        4. They will demand government financed grief counceling, for the robber, because society was to blame.

        5. Reading that makes me hope that Ebola really is mutating. It takes a virus to fight a virus

        6. “Make every single county in the U.S. have 1 electoral vote.”
          maybe you should run for office. anyway, i’m adding this to my list of awesome ideas that will never happen. another i heard (also on some internet forum) is that government can use eminent domain, but they have to pay out 3x the maximum value of the property in the last 20 years.

        7. ALOT worse can happen than just getting robbed if a certain sadistic type were to find anyone defenseless.

      2. “Can’t carry a gun there . . .”
        Washington D.C. is (well, was) another one….that place is (was) on lock down for many years (just ruled that law unconstitutional this past summer). I haven’t been that way in many years because you couldn’t cross over into D.C. with a firearm (no open or conceal carry).
        They still have a bullshit restrictive law in place but hopefully that will change soon.

    4. GoJ: to all the great points in your fourth sentence – that’s why anyone who is smart and makes money here still technically resides in their home city and state. Noone of any intellect is going to pay the punitive taxes to fund bet projects of the government stasi. If there was not additional city income taxes, more people would claim residency here, and the politics of this city would change a lot. The residents here are not as liberal as you think. It’s just that a large portion don’t want to pay an additional $5k on top of the already punitive NYS tax.

    5. I was raised just outside of NYC and yeah, for people who don’t take crap, they sure don’t mind being disarmed sheeple in a victim zone.
      You know how they handle “racial strife” in New York? I can tell you. It’s somewhat of a secret. You see, revealing it shows that while New Yorkers like to point their fingers south and call rednecks racists, they are in fact the real racists.
      They handle “racial strife” and crime by…..
      moving out of NYC and paying something like 300 grand (at least) for a 2 bedroom house on practically no land and paying 8000-10000 a year in property taxes.
      And just about any damned one of them, if you know them well enough, and are just as white as them, will say something like “Yeah well the niggers and spics can’t afford to live out here”.
      I’ve been at many kitchen tables from Stonybrook to Rochester and heard those words.
      Meanwhile, in the south, everybody is armed and you do NOT have to go into a 300K house 90 minutes from your job “in the city” because gang bangers and thugs have a chance of getting shot in the face. In Orlando FL there’s always a rash of home invasions around February because that’s when the typical “let’s move to Florida” crowd makes their move and any house with New York, MA, or New Jersey license plates is generally assumed to be unarmed and they get targeted. Being a firearms instructor I’ve worked with cops who handled those cases but of course the media keeps a lid on that.
      So NYC is full of pussy. Big deal. It’s because everybody apparently has one.

      1. I assume you live in Florida now? I ask because I get down to Jacksonville annually and am always up for a beer and cutting up.

        1. Nah, father was stationed there at NAS Jax, then retired. Got tired of being cold in Ohio I guess.

  2. “I’m a social justice warrior.” (girl’s response to my asking what she does)

      1. Yeah, that, although we can get castrated for that word, so tread lightly.
        I say “Social Justice Crusader”, it sounds more disparaging and as if they’re being heckled in general.
        I recently encountered one who was a girl I often flirted with at a nightclub I used to be a bouncer at but showed a completely different side of her through texting outside of the club (perhaps being sober had a lot to do with it, as is often the case with Americunts) when I re-ignited with her after seeing her out one night. Damn near EVERYTHING I would say got warped, twisted, and butchered into something negative or hostile when my intent was just to be light and funny. She forcefucked everything into some kind of Persecution Mania. It got so unbearable that I ended up calling her a miserable cunt who will only be alone, fat, and undesirable at 40 and that the writing was already on the wall, in blood.
        Thank Hell iPhones let you block numbers!

    1. I hate that they use the word warrior. A complete insult to all the prominent historic warriors e.g. Alexander the Great, Shaka Zulu, Gengis Khan

      1. I’m pretty sure the word ‘warrior’ was foisted on them by people mocking them, and then they just co-opted it.

    2. Isn’t it amazing that they can toss around the word “douchebag” ad nauseam for any guy that doesn’t meet their bullshit petty and shallow “standards” at an given moment but they become completely aghast if we say cunt? Hashtag-doublestandards!

  3. Good list, but my friend, I’m afraid you’re just getting old. 🙂
    That being said, welcome to the good side of life!

  4. Great article. I was never a fan of night game, and if you want to be happy, you will have to focus in building relationships with your family (and bros) which are the ones who will always be there for you. Chasing girls must not be your ultimate objective in life or you will end up empty, frustrated and drained. Name the top 10 people which you would be sure that would instantly help you if you suddenly were in the deepest shit of your life and none of them is a female that is not a relative. So there you go gentlemen, there you go, my 2 cents.

    1. …… we still need to “empty the tank” bro; and thus “chasing” girls is a necessary evil.

    2. great point there. Built up relations with your bros. They are the ones who will stick for you when u need em. Stop chasing women. Set up other goals. Women are not your success. They are the by products of your success. Get that right gentlemen!

  5. If only I knew then what I know now. Soooo true with Russian girls! Dam. I had a tall blonde Russian a while ago, all is true. Very sophisticated and wild in bed. We f*cked hard! And then there is the jaw dropping blonde that I had as an admin. Every day I got a perfect coffee delivered in the morning (the best part of my day). The absolute best was when she would wear those patterned leggings…she preferred white lace. I’ve chewed my desk and found myself believing that there was a tractor beam of some kind of gravity pushing me to her vagina.

  6. It’s interesting how Law Dogger is a New York Lawyer. I’m trying to imagine him and his law buddies having a conversation like this. Hilarity.

  7. I think night game is fun and entertaining, just 2 drinks all night is sufficient. In Dallas, there are so many hotties that come out at night, it is impossible to pass up and many of them are looking for guys.

  8. As someone else who lived in Budapest between 2013-2014, i know what you mean with Hungarian girls.. they can be a lot of fun though. I found many of them to be rather meek in nature which i liked.

  9. I live in NYC. I’ve lived here for over a decade. The author has not been here long…he’s still all starry-eyed. NYC is tough. It takes $150-250 a year to have a “middle-class” lifestyle. That money anyplace else would make you well-off. I live in a 700 sqft one bedroom apartment that I pay $4k a month ($1.3M value). That would buy a mini-mansion elsewhere.
    Also, people are constantly looking to screw you over. That’s why NYers are so blunt and standoffish – we’re looking to get to the bottom of your BS.
    As for career, only come here if you’re in your early to mid 20s. Later than late 20s, you’re gonna downgrade your lifestyle. You have to work an insane amount of hours if you want to get ahead, whether as an entrepreneur or corporate monkey. 50-60 hour weeks are the norm, and you’ll have to be at the top of your game. But when you travel elsewhere, you’ll be a rockstar. Like Sinatra said: make it here, make it anywhere.
    Now to the women. You’ve never had a pool of more beautiful women besides LA (LA is another level). Plus, you have a good mix from around the world, so the selection is wonderful. But they’re not easy. They’re used to the d-bags from Queens, NJ, and LI hitting on them to the point of harassment, so they become defensive and jaded fast. It’s not as easy to pick up girls at bars as it is elsewhere. Hell, it’s hard to break into a conversation. Finally, they get greedy and full of themselves fast. The hipsters in Williamsburg may not care what you do or how much you make, but in Manhattan, money matters. And no, you don’t flaunt it, but they want to know that they are gonna go out. Dinner here isn’t cheap.
    To really meet girls, you have to go about it a different way. Volunteering is insane pickup ground. I volunteer as a leader at a soup kitchen, with a steady supply of girls from a nearby college. Volunteering projects that you’re a great, caring guy, wanting to give back. I clean up here. Also, try low key bars, dive bars, and speakeasies (the latter is expensive, though). You’ll find quality there. Clubs are not the place to go like other cities. Low key is where the hot girls hang out…or a crowded dive in LES where you’re rubbing up against guys and girls. No thanks.
    If you are in the city, it’s like a drug. You hate it sometimes, but you also get a
    high you love. And finally, if you visit, it’s pronounced “house-ton”, not “Houston” like the city.

      1. Spot on. At least in NYC, they’re the most jaded, entitled brats I’ve met. And it is all about the money with them. Now, I’ve met a few Ukrainian girls who are much better looking and are usually pretty sweet.

        1. I bet the Ukrainian ones you met just put up a better front. their coochies get wet when they walk by the Luis Vuitton store not near your cock&balls.

        2. The foreign chicks are no different. I laugh at the guys that think they are getting better internationally. Guys are fooling themselves. Don’t forget that those chicks know you are a foreigner and play you accordingly. They’re laughing at you.

        3. right on brother..these guys think they found the unicorn in Minsk or Moscow…they ARE fooling themselves.

        4. You’re no doubt running into a higher percentage of “New Russians” in Manhattan. They’re likely to be, well, pretty much as you described.

        5. Spot on! They’re only nice to foreign men so they can get money! That’s what it boils down to!

        6. The guys are going for sex, not anything longer term. So you don’t know that these women are better. That takes time to know. Women the world over go for either love, money or power (and they hope all three). Sex when they’re just horny or you meet the previous criteria (the PUA would argue: if it seems like you meet any of the criteria).

      2. Let me Break it Down for you:
        They want money and penis.
        A couple of facts:
        1. *ALL* women want money; Russkayas are just up front about it.
        2. Russian girls (a) give amazing head, and (b) will fuck you like it’s the last time either of you is going to have sex.
        Since #1 is a wash across the entire female gender, you may want to reconsider your position….

        1. so why travel thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars and months of time learning the language, flying their ass over here just to get the same result as an American woman would provide ?
          FYI, I’ve met plenty of women , American, who just want penis and do not care about what you do and what you drive.

        2. so why travel thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars and months of time learning the language, flying their ass over here just to get the same result as an American woman would provide ?
          I’m not sure where you picked up this “Complain and Amplify” technique (my guess is from a woman), but it’s just not working. First, I must have missed the part where I told you to travel thousands of miles, spend thousands of $ or do anything else. And if you’re getting the same results, you’re Doing Something Wrong.
          FYI, I’ve met plenty of women , American, who just want penis and do not care about what you do and what you drive.
          Where? At Weight Watchers? Cat Ladies Anonymous?

        3. I’m not complaining nor amplifying. I am comparing. I do not date fat women and there’s plenty of American women who are not fat. It sounds more like you’re justifying the payments you made on your Russian Mail Order bride.

        4. I’m not complaining nor amplifying.
          Hey, I just call balls and strikes….
          I do not date fat women…
          If you say so. Some guys like a little junk in the trunk….not my thing, but, hey, “different strokes”.
          …and there’s plenty of American women who are not fat.
          Sure there are. The problem, for most guys (see my response to your “chart” post, below) is that men nearly always prefer young, attractive and slender. Assuming relative parity in the ratio of males to females, that means (assuming at 35% obesity rate–just going from your chart) then you have 3 men competing for every two women, and that’s before you cut out the women that are otherwise disqualified. Sure, there are certainly “cellar dwellers” among men, also, but my larger point is that obesity has surely constricted the number of “desirable” women.
          It sounds more like you’re justifying the payments you made on your Russian Mail Order bride.
          And now you’re swinging wildly by trying to use “shaming” language on me in an effort to hurt my “eFeelings”.

        5. While that isn’t broken down by and gender, that chart tells you a couple of things:
          First, there’s a lot of fat girls in the US. Since men generally desire young, slender women, if you cut down on the supply, you’re going to have more men competing for fewer women who meet those criteria.
          Second, what your chart tells you is that a US chick is twice as likely to be a fattie than a Russian chick.
          You may want to have a look at whose argument you were trying to support….

        6. Please note how low Italians are. There goes the theory that cheese and pasta make you fat.

        7. I really doubt anyone gets their feelings hurt, but those pushing an agenda aka “Russian women are unicorns”, tells me that they have buyers remorse or do not want to admit they have no game and thus have to “buy” their wife. This site has a lot “gaming” advice and “buying” A Russian woman for virtual slavery is completely BLUE PILL.
          Russia is encroaching on 20% fat , #12 on the list.
          this video cracks me up, it shows a near fag, aka , beta and his russian wife.

        8. I really doubt anyone gets their feelings hurt, but those pushing an agenda aka “Russian women are unicorns”, tells me that they have buyers remorse or do not want to admit they have no game and thus have to “buy” their wife. This site has a lot “gaming” advice and “buying” A Russian woman for virtual slavery is completely BLUE PILL.
          Who is pushing an agenda that “Russian women are Unicorns”? Not me, as I pointed out that they are, in fact, into $ and warned Classical Liberal off of “New Russians”. That said, IME, they do like to fuck and give great head.
          You seem to be creating your own narrative here, but in so doing, you’re losing the plot….
          EDIT: I see you posted, on another thread, you have an ex-wife from Russia (or x-USSR, as you describe), and now I’ve become a lightning rod. That explains things.
          Happy trails.

        9. Apparently you think I am trying to win a pissing contest with you. I am not. I am open and honest when it comes to my experiences. There’s a half dozen articles on this site about how “great” Russian women are as if they are the pot of pussy gold at the end of the rainbow. I like to give the other side of the story. Concerning dick sucking, any female can give a good head job it’s not like cock sucking skills are on par with designing rocket ships to Mars or solving the energy crisis.

      3. They’re hot but they are very materialistic and are probably using their hotness just so they can get more money.

    1. NYC rated dead last in the country for hours worked per week(why would us assholes WANT to go home to an empty studio apt? fuck it, Ill work until 8pm)
      bottom 5 for commute time, taxes, stress levels, rent
      Cant believe people still fall for this shit. It musta been amazing in the glory days in the 1950s/60s, but its over. You want be a douche and pay nine bucks for a cup of bone broth(its hip now!) be my guest.
      Real NYer

      1. I’d rather work a low stress job, have hobbies, and work on socializing, than get paid a shitload of money and be a douche who talks about career goals and climbing the ladder.

        1. oh yea, another thing: since you cant really do your hobbies(sorry yoga and jogging while inhaling carbon monoxide fumes arent hobbies) you tend to spend too much time in bars, because you really cant have parties at your place bc they are too tiny. your place is where you go to sleepshowerfuck. thats it…

        2. secretly women hate the “power players” and use them for money & connections. I’ve had 3 Dallas blonds tell me that.

        3. when 2 hard boiled eggs topped with Caspian Sea Caviar, for a meager price of $55, is considered dinner, you’re pretty much fooling yourself that you’re a high roller.

        4. Im convinced nyc is one of the biggest bubbles in the world. not only is real estate out of control(and all the pols here are OWNED by the big landlords/real estate developers) but less than 100k people pay 38% of the taxes in this city- out of a pop of more than 8 mil. half the city is on some sort of welfare program. how much longer can the charade continue??

        5. all you gotta do bro is whip out the AMEX Gold and the Capital One MC and throw that shit on credit, then refi when you cannot manage the monthly payments.

        6. Funny you mention AMEX. I knew some ballers who had the black card. I got a solicitation for one recently. I am not a baller.
          Either it was mistakenly sent to me, or AMEX is in deep doodoo…

        7. Bet they would love a “power player” who tells them he’s not really a power player and shows them a good time anyway.
          Top of the speed dial maybe.

    2. ” Volunteering projects that you’re a great, caring guy, wanting to give back. ”
      In other words, coming across as beta. Decent men have the same effect on today’s broken american female that daylight has on dracula.

      1. Beta game can work if done the right way. Attractive betas can get a lot of tail if they avoid oneitis. Look at Ryan Gosling.

    3. “They’re used to the d-bags from Queens, NJ, and LI hitting on them to the point of harassment, ”
      Bridge & Tunnel Crowd

    4. i left NYC and moved to Pittsburgh, after my cunt Polish exwife divorced me and decided to become some hipster trash roomsharing with 3-different girls in ASStoria. living that dream for some in the end is really a nightmare. probably added 20 years to my life leaving that place from the relief of the stress that i had to put up with while trying to live there. NYC is over-rated.

      1. The airquality index is the best airquality in the country. They just did studies that living in a polluted city, with bad air quality, is equivalent to 2nd hand smoke. Nice NewYawkShitty. How about them apples.

  10. Well I’ll confirm the Hungarian chick thing. By far the best blow jobs I’ve had… and a closet slut.
    And #10, you want a baby boy huh? I was 50/50 on having kids then accidentally had a girl (wanted a boy).. you don’t get to choose, I would highly suggest noticing this pattern: Whatever the order your dad/mom had genders of their kids in, you likely will to. Not always, but most likely, providing the pregnancies happen in the comparative age range as your parents.

    1. How do you meet hungarian women? That’s a very precise ethnic target. Maybe you guys were all getting BJs from the same chick.

      1. 1. Go to Hungary.
        2. Socialize.
        Don’t thank me, I provide this service free of charge.

  11. 13. Money CAN and does buy happiness, so make as much as you can and save and invest whatever you can and get rid of your goddamn debts!
    14. Exercise (weights, any form or cardio, any martial art and yoga) is something you should do every single day in some shape or form. When your mind and your spirit fall into place your body inevitably will next. And do it for YOU, do not jump on this pathetic bandwagon of doing it to attention whore! Besides, the attention will come on its own once you have it down, trust me!
    15. Women are a luxury, not a necessity. Anytime you have more time/money/energy (the three most precious finite resources) to yourself, the better. Plus, you don’t have to listen to your hands talk, they don’t perform the monetary terrorism that women do, and they never say no!
    16. Keep learning, keep reading. Finance, philosophy, history, biographies of great men, esoterica, fiction that you can still learn lessons or history from like Jack Kerouac, Dan Brown, Aldous Huxley, Ayn Rand, George Orville, Voltaire, Herman Melville, etc. or even comic books for your fiction fix, no harm in those and they’re part of being a man who once was a boy with a vivid imagination as is.
    Just stay productive. Keep improving, refining, and moving onward and upward! The world is a cruel, ugly place where everybody is an opportunist and self-serving and shady for the most part. Trust only a select few who deserve it, have earned it, and actually reciprocate it back to you. A small circle of worthy individuals is better than being semi-pseudo-liked by a great many who would destroy you if given the chance!

    1. “Money CAN and does buy happiness” – is death by cholesterol & stress considered the epicenter of happiness?
      #14 – I agree
      #15 – we can repeat in our heads as much as we want, but we need pussy. .. or else you’re gonna have to go gay to dump a load.

      1. I suppose if you died smiling, it is. Besides, if that was the choice you made, then you knew exactly what you were doing. No sympathy here!

        1. There’s a happy medium. Climbing the corporate ladder is not happiness. I see it in family members who are miserable and asshole upper level managers who marry 3’s (on a scale of 10) because they cannot socialize if their life depended on it.

        2. 3’s??? I think it’s been an RoK commandment to never touch anything under a 5 right? 5 is a semi-desperate one night stand, 6 a better one night stand, 7 is girlfriend potential, 8 is long-term girlfriend/wife material, 9 is a fantastic trophy shag but don’t get too attached.

        3. some of these guys make $200K per year and are decent looking guys. However, they have such big egos that approaching and getting rejected by women is not something they can handle. They are fragile people whose parents told them that they were “smart” and therefore every woman should worship the ground they walk on.

        4. Bro I never said “climbing the corporate ladder”! There are many ways to make money without licking another man’s balls. Be as unorthodox as you like in how you make it, it is nobody else’s business and you shouldn’t care what other homo sapiens think most of the time as is!

        5. bloody hell 200k… If I had 1 million in after tax cash I could make that money last the rest of my life. I’d just move to Colombia or something. Get a decent $150,000 apartment with good internet, and mac the local ladies and enjoy an evening cocktail while I read books and go on hikes and shit.
          The good life. You do need money, but not a fuckton of it.

        6. I do not know of a business that does not require tons of time to operate as well. I guess the luckiest man ever to live and make millions is Hugh Hefner. I do not know too many men if any that have emulated his money making-pussy pulling business.

        7. A friend of mine is semi-retired at 40 having made a good chunk of change in stocks and playing poker. Sure, these aren’t conventional ways for everybody and one person’s luck isn’t everybody else’s, but it goes to show it can be done. You should have multiple sources of income anyway and see a corporate job as more of a way to have health insurance and a retirement fund and have other angles to make money on top of that while working to free yourself from the yoke of that all the sooner in your life.

        8. If you have any other suggestions to make a supplemental income, I’m all ears. I thought about owning a deli in a high rise in Dallas. Usually you need one cook/cashier and the business nets around $20,000 per year. You can check in to make sure everything is running well for a few minutes per day I guess.

        9. Downtown Dallas? That could work, last time I was there Downtown seemed pretty boring but it was 2008 so maybe the story’s changed. Make sure there’s no competition right across the street or anything and that you particularly appeal to government and financial employees. You may have to only operate during daylight hours when they are busiest.
          What about a dry cleaner or floral shop Downtown? Sure, they aren’t glamorous, but you could make a killing, especially if you corner the market.

        10. flower shops do well here. I knew a guy in construction equipment sales who also owned a flower shop and he hired 3 gay guys to work there . He lived in a $500K decked out house, said he was making more money in the flower shop than in sales for corporate.
          I hear dry cleaners are tough, there are a lot of them here in Dallas, foreign owned. Dallas has been just booming the last 5 years.

      2. Oh I like it just as much as you do and crave it often, but let’s be honest, sometime the war that we fight to get isn’t worth the battles.

        1. I ignored pussy for 1 year from 2012-2013. I got really good at soccer, I mean really good…then my concentration started tanking because I needed to release the pent up sexual tension. I went out for 5 days in a row at the end of 2013 and finally found a willing participant, female, at the end of the 5 day clubbing binge. I was literally going crazy up to that point.

  12. Eh, I don’t have quite the New York City boner other people seem to. I have family there and I visit every summer and yes, it’s tons of fun and it has everything at your disposal and you can distract yourself some way somehow 24 hours, but you’re ALWAYS rushing to catch trains to make it somewhere by a certain time, everything is so damn expensive anywhere perceived to be “hip” and cool and you can’t catch a moment’s silence unless you jump in the Hudson tied to a cinder block by chains.
    A fun place to visit short-term but no interest in living there. I pay less than $1,000 a month for a fifth-floor loft Downtown in the city I live in (sorry, not revealing it, need to remain as anonymous as the rest of you!) which includes ALL utilities including wi-fi with decent enough speed for Netflix and gaming (I just had to buy my own modem and router, the signal is free) and underground parking so my car is safe and free from the elements. And all my exercising at the various locations I go to is extremely cheap and we have an awesome MMA scene with great talent. Why would I want to go to NYC and suffer and struggle and have to have several roommates just to survive the rat race? I’m content with my annual visits, they’ll keep me from hating it there.

  13. #7. Truer words have never been spoken. Cannot stand nightclubs… Although I have had success within them I just can’t get over how utterly ridiculous they are. Nothing turns me off faster than a piss drunk girl who is only passable because of her makeup and barely there skirt start dancing on tables to some repetitive ass thumping noise played by some DJ who puts his hands in the air for literally no apparent reason… Day game is infinitely more satisfying and way cheaper.

      1. moreso dogs than cats. leave the pooch at daycare all day. pretty nuts.
        sad thing last year on halloween: people dressing up their dogs and bringing them to costume parties. They should be dressing up their kids, but they are all career gals, so they dont have any.

        1. I’m dating one right now. She goes home at lunch everyday to take the dog out and give him a bath.

        2. Bathing a dog daily is horrible for its health and well being (!). Is she stupid, or what?

        3. she rents Versace dresses for weekend birthday parties, rides UBER everywhere, and orders the smoked salmon with dressing on the side from gourmet restaurants and throws half of it away when she reaches the 400 calorie daily ceiling her expensive personal trainer has set for her.

        4. That dermis needs its oils!
          Dogs and water every day, totally cool, several breeds are built for it out of the box. Dogs and chemical shampoos daily? You’re asking for a sick pup.

        5. Now the “dog ladies” are on the other side in Seattle.
          I’m becoming convinced that Subaru dealerships are running “free” puppy deals with Yellow Lab breeders.

        6. I saw one just this morning getting coffee. Lady about mid 30s, still pretty, but clearly an 8 or 9 just a few yrs ago…dog had those wrap around sunglasses on…just had eye surgery…cant make this stuff up…

    1. Because they’re in a cobalt blue city and are taught feminism as a birthright from the time they’re conceived (and hopefully not aborted) to the time they retire with their 43 pet cats named after children they never had and regret.

  14. So many of your points I have started to grasp myself at the old age of 26.
    – Night game has certainly become a waste of time.
    – I’ve realized the folly of hookups. It is much better to have a friend with benefits instead. The constant pressure and nervousness is gone after the first encounter.
    – I really want kids myself. For some reason, I want to continue my line. I also want to leave my mark on the world, and kids are the most significant way to do exactly that.

  15. The true New Yorkers don’t care one bit about being politically correct.
    Well then what about this? http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/29/new-york-college-bans-mr-and-mrs-salutations/ I know you might say this is not “true New Yorkers” but I find cites like NY, BOS, LA and SF to be bastions and trendsetters in PC Stalinist nonsense.
    Hurray for Hungarian women. My kind of gals for no holds barred, no rules fun and relaxation.
    Russian women seem to be more popular than ever. I have found Slavic women in general to be quite mercenary, but hell yes they are so much more beautiful and feminine than the current trash in the Anglosphere. I prefer Romanians of all the EE women. Not as stunningly attractive but more down to earth, and in general easy going and friendly.

    1. I’m not sure it’s really fair to judge a place by whatever the fucktard, swipl liberals on the faculty of the local community college happen to spew at any given moment….

      1. That crap is the coming rage. It started in Sweden big time and it’s headed to a theater near you soon. I wish it were not so. We are not winning the cultural wars, although thankful that I am for bastions of sanity such as this.

  16. Such an EXCELLENT article from L. D. Hume aka Law Dogger. I always enjoy his articles so much. This is another one that knocks it out of the park.
    Numbers 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 are spot on.
    Number 10 I have felt the same way as L.D. Hume……the desire for a son without having the wife. I decided against it after a few years of contemplation and screening the prospective volunteer egg donors and incubators………of course YMMV.

    1. its very redpill to want to have a kid(preferably a son) without having a wife in the scenario. Don’t get me wrong. A good wife is priceless. However when you realize that in the modern world the laws are stacked against you as a husband, and your wife can destroy your life and take away your kids whenever she wants, thats when you lose the desire of a wife. Women are not feminine, loving and traditional anymore. As for the son part, having a daughter doesn’t makes a difference. However as a man you can relate better to a son. Even that doesn’t make any difference. The real biting reason is that you fear your daughter may become the usual man hating whore the current culture brainwashes women into. She’ll probably hate you as a man and because you ‘hurt’ her mom which caused her to file for divorce!

      1. Actually, the reason I said a son is that I have already had a daughter. She is a grown, well-adjusted woman without any major hang-ups as we discuss here on this forum.

        1. I have a real question–I’m not trying to be a dick. I assumed that most of the guys here couldn’t have daughters, but you do and you think of her fondly. Would you be happy with her dating the types of guys that usually post on here?

        2. Lincoln, that is a bit of an open-ended, general question — too generalized to give a thoughtful answer. I raised my daughter to be independent, to think for herself, live with the consequences of her choices and, in short, to be able to take care of herself. Who she chooses to date is her business.

        3. Sure–that sounds great, and I hope that if I ever have a daughter I’d be able to raise her the same way. I guess what I’m asking is if you’d be happy if she dated a man who thought women aren’t capable of doing anything as well as men, women are children, or women are manipulative and need to be dominated.

    2. Give it time.
      Eventually there will be artificial wombs where rich AND too smart to marry men will go egg shopping for good breeding stock and incubate a kid in a jar.
      And the path to this is cleared by the sperm banks.
      I fully expect our cuntocracy to deny this while still wanting their sperm banks but that day will be the day there is no further doubt that “empowerment” is all about misandry.
      They’ll screech about muhsoginy of course. But all that will be is “Hey! We have a RIGHT to your money! You must marry!” and the rich guys (I don’t imagine the womb service would be cheap) will say “Fuck you, cunts. Now if you excuse me after I drop off some sperm I got a flight to the Bahamas to catch and I promised my pilot I would give him the rest of the weekend off”.
      Artificial wombs then… psychologically screened and trained governess to raise the kid. Yes… women can still go to college and learn about child psychology so the best paying job they can get is professional governess. Yes they can go to college to become a mother. It will be glorious and if she sucks at it, you can fire her and hire another.
      Already I can FEEL the benefits of being rich. I have no reason to become wealthy. For what? So I can be tax raped and divorce raped? Fuck that. But if I wanted progeny and could do it the way I described, well then, that is the reason. And great men will go to great lengths to procreate.
      And yes, we’ll sex select the kids too. Remember, if you have a son that’s one swinging dick to worry about. Have a daughter and you have to worry about ALL of the swinging dicks.
      (though a woman raised by a red-pill dad is probably NOT going to be gamed into giving BJs so easily as those brainless bimbos out there).

  17. “As a single man, there is an endless number of women, who are attractive to boot and outnumber the men so the sexual marketplace is in your favor”
    I call myth, unless your idea of attractive are tatooed fatties. The hot ones in NYC are sucking investment banker cock or coke dealer cock.
    And as far as the Russian women, they know they are hot and have the most extreme cunt attitudes. You sound a bit young and too idealistic. Give it time and you’ll want to scrape that place off your shoe.
    I would say NYC was best around the 1940’s – 1950’s, but today it’s spent.

    1. I’ve repeated this 100 times and have yet to be disproved. Russian women want you for your wallet, not your penis.

  18. New York “If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere!” Very diverse city and the experience was great. It is a very tough city to live in and you have to be fast on your feet and mind to be able to carve out a decent living there. The drawbacks are the high rent even outside the “City” (what New Yorkers call Manhattan), and its hard to raise a family there. Transportation runs 24 hours a day, and women, food, and culture from all over the planet. Now I would rather just visit, but there’s definitely no place like New York! Interesting article, I agree with time life perspectives change.

  19. Excellent article, I myself am also 26 and i feel the same way about most that things but I’m a little bit behind you. I work as a doorman at night and teach martial arts/go to school during the day. I gave up on chasing girls once i got a job as a doorman at a music venue and a bar. Seeing what woman do to get attention and who they are craving attention from has turned me off from them at least the ones i am around the most. Probably because it is part of the “night game” crowd and I also live in a military town with a high STD rate. It’s turned me off so completely that I maybe crave sex once every six months if that, I honestly feel like i have better things to do now. Even when i do crave it all i have to do is work a friday or saturday and see a bunch of semi flabby half naked ” rave “girls try and “twerk” for the attention of some 4 foot DJ who spends the same records the 2 previous djs who opened up from him did. It’s even better when the next day i see these same girls complaining about “Why can’t I find a good man/while will nobody treat me like a princess?”. Well dear it’s probably because you enjoy singing such lyrics as “I’m a nympho, i’m gonna ride that dick till it falls off” at the top of your lungs and then getting a picture of you gagging on the dj’s cock at the after party.

  20. I went to NYC in 013. Although I thought it wasn’t my scene I banged the hottest broad I ever nailed there. Those Bolivian memories keep me going through the current dry spell I’m experiencing.

  21. NYC Lives Up To The Hype
    Welcome to our island.
    There’s a joke about NYC that goes like this:
    In any other city in the country, if you call up and say “I’d like to rent an elephant,” the guy on the other end of the line is going to say, “An elephant? Are you crazy?” but in NYC, he’ll say, “Which kind, Indian or African?”
    “…there is no city like it in the world. And I’ve been to quite a few. As a single man, there is an endless number of women, who are attractive to boot and outnumber the men so the sexual marketplace is in your favor. … Aside from girls, the city still carries with it an aura of old America. People are rough, direct and don’t take bullshit. The true New Yorkers don’t care one bit about being politically correct.
    I have been saying for years, if you are a presentable guy, who can walk upright, speak English, has acceptable table manners, and looks like he might be employable, you’re going to go forth and slay in NYC.
    Happy hunting,

    1. Don’t know how you do it Mistral. That entire swath of the country drives me batshit insane in under a week, let alone the heart of it all, NYC.
      Went to Cape May, NJ a few years back (few years, ha! Like 2007 I think). Apart from the 1,000 Nazis Signs Per Mile that New England seems peppered with telling you how to act and behave, they had klaxons strung out along the boardwalk. Every fifteen minutes or so some douchebag would get on them and honk on about “Beach pass required, Komeraden!” A fucking pay-to-play pass to walk on a public beach, with a loudspeaker system to remind you every quarter hour that without State Permission you were a Criminal. At night they’d comb the beach with official government trucks, and dump the trash and stray rocks on the “free beach” a few miles down where the poor folk e.g. – the functional resident population of the area, actually went. Fucking disgusting.
      I honestly don’t know how people with any semblance of liberty about them manage to not go on shooting sprees daily in new England. I always found great relief driving from NE and entering western Pennsylvania while watching the 1k signs/mile disappear behind me. Makes getting to Ohio seem like entering the old West.

      1. Well, like I said elsewhere on this thread, NYC has a broader Bell curve than most places. Sure, it sux worse on one end, but once you get over, it’s actually pretty cool. The trick is getting over.*
        There’s a longer version, but the bottom line is that I developed the right skills, I found the right company (i.e. one that pays above-market for people with talent), then I made myself indispensable, and then I disappeared. I haven’t worked in an office in 8 or 9 years. Sure, there’s an office I’m supposed to go to, but everyone knows I don’t–I do go in for a few hours a week for meetings, but I could dial-in to those; sometimes, it’s not such a bad idea to show up, maintain relationships, and identify problems before they become big problems, etc. So good relative income + lots of freedom = happy result. I’m sure I will fuck off to somewhere else once I decide to move on entirely, but for now, this is the place.
        Actually, thinking through this reply has been a good kick in the ass to take some time to reassess where I am, and where I want to be. I do tend to get sluggish in the winter.
        À bientôt,
        *This incidentally, is why you see a lot of unhappy people, and it’s also largely the premise for the welfare state–people have an idea of what type of life they want, but they have zero idea about how to get there. The human psyche can be a fragile thing, and people tend to worry to much about how they’re “doing” compared to their neighbors. That leads to unhappiness and is behind a lot of damaging behavior–for folks who abuse drugs a lot, it’s not the drug that the real problem, it’s the cage that they live in (and often enough have created themselves).

  22. I relearned that weed is awesome!
    I grow up in FL so “weed” was never consistent but it usually suck. The first thing I did when I got out of the Army was to get a bullshit “Medical” permit. Now I can walk into any WA dispensary and pick from over 20 strains.

  23. #10–go for it. I think a single dad could totally raise a kid well. Couldn’t be any worse than single moms, we know the devastating stats on single moms raising kids.

  24. “Then understand that if a girl is attracted to you, a lot of what you do does not matter.”
    A lesson I missed as a teenager. Back in 2003 there was a girl who liked me that I thought was crazy, loud, ghetto and I couldn’t stand her. One day I got the brilliant idea of obviously feeling all over her ass whenever I would hug her to get her to stop liking me. (Yes, it was a big ass-nice to feel on.) I was wondering why this didn’t seem to work. Though one day she kicked up some static, and a girl defended me and hugged me. The ghetto girl said “Don’t hug him, he might try to feel on yo booty.” I hate how you don’t think of stuff to say until it’s too late because I should have said “You never complained.”

  25. In 2014 I realized with the help of ROK that I was the biggest chump on planet Earth.
    Seriously. If I fully detailed my chumpness half of you guys would commit suicide and the rest would be wondering why I did not (and wish I had before sharing my story).
    My “Tales of the Chump” would scare your balls off.

    1. I’m sure many guys here share the same woes of chumpness from years back, myself included. The great thing about places like ROK is we can finally not feel so alone in these types of things. Since all the old traditional male spaces have been wiped out, all we can do is congregate here and share “war stories”

      1. True. Because of this site I’ve lost a lot of fear of getting rejected. Even though I don’t have as high as numbers as other men here seem to have, I keep trying. Last year over the course of 3 months I asked out 5 different girls. While all of them flaked on me ( One said yes, but got back together with her ex soon after, 2 had boyfriends or lied and said they had a boyfriends and 2 no text back), I learned not to take it so personally (which I would do before), pick myself up, and try again.

      2. indeed. my pre-red pill levels of chumpness were staggering to behold. what ya gonna do? you can’t take back the past, just learn from past mistakes and do better in the future.

    2. In addition I was able to put my ego aside and see what a fucking chump I really was, STFU, and listen (read) and learn what it really means to be a man. You don’t need to impress anyone but yourself.

  26. “So call this my altruistic or charitable side developing, but I want to give back. How I’m not exactly sure.”
    I think you’re giving back plenty by donating your time and comments (here and the Roosh forum). This kind of information (and tips) is invaluable to younger men who feel that something is “just not right” but can’t put their finger on it. They’ll search (Google) and end up here (or on The Rational Male site)..or maybe on one of the other sites.
    Bottom line is you’re giving back each time you post an article or comment. Some one, some where is probably (or has probably) going through the same type of “awakening”.
    The journey continues…..

  27. NYC, agreed but its been a few years since I’ve been there on a blow out. Enduring memories of bunch of lads out on the town in kilts, commando of course. 15 guys falling out of limo in little Italy, ladies servicing the guys under the table in a restaurant. Bars in the village terrorised, doing a Braveheart outside a packed watering hole on a Friday night, two women fighting over a strap-on in said bar, spraying beer over chicks dancing on the bar in Hog n Heifers, getting thrown out of Hog n Heifers, chick jerking me off under my kilt at next bar, then she left, ran out after her to finish what she started, went to strip club, lads walking around pitching tents in their kilts, picked up a few birds on way back to hotel, they bolted when we opened the door to 5 or 6 men in various states of undress….
    Went to Nicks game, Madison Square Garden, TV crew zoomed in on us at a time out…. one of the guys jumped up and mooned to the whole place on the centre video screens…
    ah memories….
    Enjoyed the article….

  28. Great article for us here. I am on to your number 2 myself, especially. I’m just trying to cull my whole brain of thoughts/emotions/paradigms that developed around validation/approval. It’s the best single concept I’ve ever been exposed to after however many years and people. However many movies and books. The greatest single sentiment is your number 2. Get away from validation/approval.

  29. I live in NYC but don’t go to the city too much however from the stories I hear your praise of it has to have some iotas of truth. However I have found Russian women I interacted here with as cold as they climate they hail from. Most simply lack the warmth of some American woman and are straight up into the $$$.

  30. “For the first time since getting into game, my numbers went down in a subsequent year. ”
    It will go down again this year if the rest of your list is any indication. Welcome to the club.

  31. I had to laugh at 3,2, where a woman asked if you were calling a cab after fucking her. Who cares? Plenty of men would do the same to women, and I don’t think you’d call them dumb or undesirable. And what’s wrong with somebody saying ‘if’ they get married? You don’t really have any right to denigrate somebody for not wanting to get married. Your way of living is not the only way to live.

  32. Big cities suck–at least in the USA. Too crowded, too much traffic, too expensive to live in. They’re gulags for the very wealthy and very poor. They’re not America. Small towns are where it’s at. That’s America. And if you can find a good job in one as well as a place to live, you’ve got it knocked.

  33. #3 reminded me of how happy I was growing up in the U.S. Mexico border area. After attempting to date even “gringofied” Latinas, also known as pochas, with their sloppy appearance, their rude manners, their sense of entitlement, and their omygosh way of speaking, I’m glad I decided to keep dating Mexican girls. #6 and especially #8 ring a bell.

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