188 thoughts on “What Is It Like To Get Older?”

1. As you get older, your body starts to break, and you won’t be ready for it. Suddenly, you find yourself wishing you could turn back the clock, or at least appreciate what you had more, but there’s no way to really understand what you have until you don’t have it — no matter how many times you hear about it.

2. I am 51 and have no desire to turn back the clock. I have worked almost 20 years and have 8 and 1/2 to go to get my retirement.
   I played the maverick game up until my son was born. But realized I needed something stable for 25 years. I hope my health holds up as I am chomping at the bit for life to be about me again. I want to start a small farm 19th century syle self-sufficient homestead.
   I needed to be a conformist bureacrat to meet my responsabilitites. And teaching can be a cool job too. But I want to live for me again. Be my own man without having to worry about that next paycheck.

   1. Ranch out West, Wyoming or Montana for me. Same idea you have.

      1. Montana is amazing, if I was a US citizen I’d move there.

      2. Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck… maybe even a “recreational vehicle.” And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
         Captain Ramius: I suppose.
         Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
         Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
         Capt. Vasili Borodin: Well then, in winter I will live in… Arizona. Actually, I think I will need two wives.
         Captain Ramius: Oh, at least.

         1. I never get tired of The Hunt for Red October, great flick and an even better read.

         2. Classic.

      3. Montana is where I’ve set my sights as well, every time I visit (yearly), it gets harder and harder to come home (Kalifornia). Montana is man country, period.

      4. I live in Montana and vacation a couple of times per year in Poland. Life is good. Y’all need to come visit Big Sky Country!!!

      5. I am a NC southern boy. Will probably stay in Dixie Land. I know the crops here better.

         1. Montana is great, for skiing in winter and fishing in summer, but all the guys I know there are in 12 step programs. Winter, which starts in August, isn’t easy and many of the women have that “buffalo” thing going.

         2. But one thing is clear. If you are healthy and have a little change, life begins at retirement. I like my job ok, but am chomping at the bit. Wanna have my compound, farm, ranch or something.

         3. buffalo thing ? I googled 12 step for drinking.

         4. Given my career, I traveled the state extensively, and the professional guys I called upon, with few exceptions, had drinking issues. The women weren’t all that plentiful, or good looking, and the local guys called them, Buffalo girls. (Seriously, it wasn’t my term, and I heard this from one end of the state to the other.)

         5. Check out the central part of Florida…plenty of range land, lots of cattle ranches, hell, there’s even buffalo ranches, it’s warm, and a lot easier on your bones.

         6. Will do !
            But I am a NC boy. Like my 4 seasons. Climate wise, I am good from southern Georgia to Gettysburg or so. Too cold for my kind of agriculture up north, but I admit I would be into a libertarian free state project in New Hampshire. And it would be nice to raise oranges and bananas in fLORIDA.
            But I’ll stick to Tarheel country. Got my family here too. But I admit, I do keep other areas in the back of my mind like Montana. Land is probably cheap out there

         7. Well, I wouldn’t say that it “starts in August”. I was out there this August, and other Augusts in the past and it was plenty hot. But yeah, it does start really early, no question.

         8. True, but their carry laws suck. I have to live in an open carry state, and Florida just keeps dropping the ball on that count.

         9. I don’t know where you were, but I’ve frozen my rear end off playing golf in August, out there. Granted, it didn’t snow, but come on, August?

         10. open carry? yeah, maybe, but you can have one in your car, and a concealed carry is a pretty easily obtained license if you’re not already a criminal.

         11. I’ve been raised with unobstructed and uncontested open carry, and that’s where I’m going to stay. Concealed I’ll do if I have to, but prefer not to. When I visit family in Florida I hate having to IWB holster my .45, it’s uncomfortable in the heat and if you go native in dress you basically are printing like a mofo AND you’re uncomfortable. No thanks.
             If it comes down to it and Montana doesn’t agree with me, I have no problem heading to Arizona or even Utah. The concealed-carry-only states aren’t my cup of tea, but to their credit at least you can still carry there I guess.

3. I have a question for the older members who are 40+. What happens to your drive, energy level, libido, and thumos (basically everything that makes you a man) as you age?
   I’m little worried because I’m in my late 20s and I already feel a big drop in all those areas compared to my early 20s. I’m hoping it’s just temporary, but it’s been like this for few years now.

   1. Get your T checked. Seriously, not being snarky here. In my late 20’s I was still wanting to hump everything in a skirt that still had a pulse. As somebody who, it appears, is nearly the same age as Quintus, I can tell you for a fact that staying in good shape and not subscribing to the Estrogen Diet (fast food, HFCS, carbs instead of proteins, soy, etc) you will still want to fuck at least 2-3 times a day nearly every day.
      Your energy levels are completely dependent on your motivation to keep them prime. But that’s true now if you think about it. Look around at your peer group, especially the guys that are starting to put on that beer belly, and ask them how energetic they feel. Keep active and you’ll not want to be inactive, but slow down and start “taking it easy” too much can eventually lead to you slowing down and losing motivation to turn the trend around.

      1. I forgot to mention. I have and it’s low. I tried TRT for a while, but I didn’t notice significant improvement and didn’t like the side effects, so I got off of it this summer and now I’m trying to fix it naturally with exercise, supplements, and diet.
         I still think it’s strange to have lower energy and libido now when I’m eating healthier, sleeping better, and exercising more than before in my early 20s when I felt like a wolf.

         1. Only One Answer: Porn Addiction..Be a Total Celibate…No Porn,Sex, Self-Touching,Masturbation for four months to a year…and you will be a raging Bull…Do Breath Meditation and concentration meditation but dont do Vipassana (Mindfulness) meditation as its specfically trained to cut out sexual desire–Shaswata Panja

         2. I am in no way a doctor and each man has his own physiology but some ideas maybe:
            1. Check the nutritional value of the food you’re eating and diversify the foods you eat to get those nutrients.
            2. If you smoke pot or cigarettes…stop now.
            3. If you truly are exercising correctly and efficiently then you should be tired…while lifting is excellent, getting the proper amount of rest for your body is more important while lifting.
            4. Do not use nautilus machines if you’re lifting, free weights only. You should incorporate deadlifts and squats as much as possible. Squats are known to increase testosterone production.

         3. In regards to #4, does bodyweight exercises have the same effect on T-levels? I prefer pushups, pullups, and bodyweight squats.

         4. They should have warned you that testosterone replacement therapy can result in permanent sterility. It suppresses natural T production which is linked to FSH, follicole stimulating hormone, production which is what produces sperm. When you get off of it it may or may not resume producing sperm.

         5. My wife would object to my becoming celibate.

         6. bodyweight exercises are excellent and utilize stabilizer muscles that nautilus machines neglect. But in time you will need to stress your muscles in order for them to grow and you will need to vary your bodyweight exercise routine with heavy weights at low reps.
            One again I encourage you to do your own research. I was coming from being skinny to bulking, your fitness journey could easily be different if you’re larger and looking to slim.
            But I do know that squats with heavy weight will increase your T levels.

         7. No doubt. Thanks for the input. I personally prefer bodyweight exercises for the convenience and since I seem pretty prone to hurting myself if any weight is involved, hah.

         8. A lesson I had to learn about lifting free weights was technique:
            Your technique for lifting weighs is more important than how much you lift. If you’re twisting your back or throwing your shoulders when doing dumbbell curves standing upright then your form is off and you will hurt yourself and not get an effective workout for that targeted muscle group. While it may be embarrassing, use smaller weight and perfect your form and technique first, then increase when your lifting it correctly. The quality of your workout should trump the quantity of the weight you lift.
            That’s why there are mirrors in good gyms..its not for vanity, its for lifters watching how they lift to make sure they don’t fall out of their form.

         9. It was mainly deadlifts that caused issues. I was using light weights and even had a PT review my form. Still tweaked my back so I decided it wasn’t for me.

         10. I can relate, I had the same issue, but I am an older lifter. I do squats now with weights in front of me across my clavicles as opposed to on my shoulders. Less stress and I can toss the weights in front of me if I feel my back doing weird things.

         11. What if my girlfriend is a porn star? Can I watch then?

         12. NO. Bodyweight is conditioning. Resistance training adds muscle, as the weights go up. It’s the growth that is so good for your physiology, not just shaving off extra body fat through cardio. Get your muscles growing.

         13. Yeah but what PT? A lot of those guys are charlatans who have curled and protein shaked their way to a decent body. Read ‘Starting Strength’ and learn how to deadlift.

         14. Admittedly, it was the PT that worked at the gym I was at (anytime fitness) so I doubt he was a high quality guy. I’ve done a lot of research on weightlifting so I know the theory behind it. I could be deadlifting wrong and certainly wouldn’t dismiss having a skilled PT review my form but I’m pretty methodical about my lifts.

         15. That’s a good point. I’m very strongly considering the idea of going ‘image free’ in life as much as possible. Meaning, no more artificial images via, TV, movies or internet. No it won’t be easy but I used to nearly start hyperventilating at the sight of breasts in playboy. Now the accessibility and even unasked for shots of T and A don’t affect me at all. It’s kind of weird for a guy my age to remember how that swimsuit issue used to hit me like lightning. Now huge jiggling breasts on screen barely raise my heart rate.

         16. I bet almost anything your PT had you trying to get too low for the deadlift, trying to turn it into a squat almost, so that you’ll ‘lift with your legs’. The deadlift is a back lift and your back should feel most of the stress, all up and down. The ‘get low’ bro-science deadlift will kill your lower back because it slackens your hamstrings and that kills your spinal chain’s tightness as a unit. The fulcrum actually becomes your lower back if you start out squatting too low in a bro-science effort to ‘lift with your legs’. I’m a buck eighty-five, age 44 and I am coming up on a 400 pound deadlift, no supplements whatsoever, no effort towards eating out of the ordinary. A few steaks a week and little other ‘weightlifters food’ at all. I never have any soreness in my lower back at all. Your lower back is protected when the spinal chain is tightened in unison which comes from higher hips at the outset. I used to deadlift wrong and it felt like my lower back would snap. That comes from trying to squat the weight.

         17. Actually quite the opposite. He actually started me off higher. My only guess is I had/have weak back muscles and the relative light weight strained my back.

         18. Well so much for that. Go lighter then. Your back should be capable of the deadlift even at some humble weight. If not, you’ll likely hurt it doing some daily task.

         19. otherwise known as rack-pulls

      2. Pro tip: Never confuse “estrogen diets”. You hit the nail on the head pointing out HFCS and soy for example.
         But there is one thing that is very important: highly estrogenic natural foods – you know where I’m going – meaning good quality fruits and vegetables, while touted as things old ladies should do, are actually highly beneficial for men. I have done a lot of research and such foods high in anti-oxidants and resveratols as well actually boost testosterone indirectly!
         So yes I’m actually saying that what gets touted as a “Womens’ diet” benefits men because (apart from the usual conspiracy to kill men off early and keep women alive and voting leftoid as long as possible) what “the studies” forget is that men produce more estrogen than women but we convert a goodly portion of that to T in our own bodies.
         So in my studies I observed that “low T” that comes from aging, is not our bodies saying “OK we hit that age, cut back on the T” but in reality a lowering of all hormones of which T is a ratio.
         So I get chided for my fresh-food plant rich “old lady diet” yet I have a 6 pack, not only am I not bald, but when I arrived at my current conclusions and changed my diet several years ago, some of that hair that was lost came back!
         This is why I cringe when I see guys trying to boost their T through supplements and wrong diets because all they are doing is boosting T “post production” and still having an imbalance. They lift their shirts to check that 6 pack (since that’s how the products are sold) but in looking down in the mirror they don’t notice the growing bald spot.
         Worse, with hormones, real trouble comes when we are trained out not to produce it. This is why bodybuilders grow little boobies: their systems said “plenty of T in here, no need to make more” but when they get off the juice it takes a while for the body to kick it back up. Nothing good can come of post-conversion T boosting artificially.
         The balance is extremely important. While T is the “muscle hormone”, E is the “bone hormone”. Boost the NATURAL (not mimicked by chemicals) E in your body and the T ratio will follow, along with the processes that our bodies use to create T remaining well honed. Simply trying to “replace the T” is a bad idea that should only be resorted to when a true medical condition exists. But I would bet that in most cases, bad diet is the cause of low T.

         1. I’ve heard a lot of praise go towards cruciferous veggies in this regard. Basically, they block estrogen hormones in the body. Eat your broccoli, boys!

         2. Folic acid and zinc are also good for mens’ health.

         3. The body converts T to E. Not E to T.
            Look up aromatase inhibitors.

         4. Magnesium is another good one.

         5. I was just going to say that.
            Plus, no need to burden your digestive system with tons of veggies and fruits when my food eats them and stores the goodies in their livers in a more digestible form ready for me.
            The Inuit people survive without any fruits and veggies because they eat offal.
            Especially modern fruits are a waste of money because they have been hybridized towards sweetness. Basically, they are candies that grow on trees. I simply laugh when I hear the health crowd praising the fresh fruits juices.
            Yesterday I stumbled upon an old variety apple tree. The fruits were the size of a small cherry fruit. They were extremely bitter and not sweet all. I could tell they were rich in vitamin C – tasted like lemons.
            That’s the kind of fruit I would eat a little but it is almost extinct now.

         6. Yes ‘wild’ apples are nothing like the selectively-bred varieties

         7. I take dat dere kratom

         8. Could you summarize the kind of diet that you’re following these days? I’ve been moving towards a plant-strong almost vegan diet after looking at the science, and also looking at my fellow 30-something friends all get fat!

         9. ZMA – zinc-magnesium aspartate – is the best form I find. Two or three caps before bed gives me morning wood reliably and drives me to the gym for a workout.

      3. Another tip is to limit video games if you’re even playing. Turn off the TV and get off social media. These are time wasters.
         Edit: add reading important stuff. Not romance novels.

         1. I usually only play some games after everything else is finished at the end of the night. If your first inclination when you come home is to hop on the couch and turn on the Xbox, then yes, you’re most likely wasting a lot of time that could be better spent.

         2. I never played a lot of video games, but I have been addicted to Nazi Zombies for quite a while now. Need to quit it. Such a waste of time.

      4. At 60 let me tell you all that there are somethings all the good diet and exercise do not correct. There is a large component of genetic heritage that limits your health. I have a family history of heart desease and arthritis, and I have managed to accumulate a few physical injuries that are permanent. A few sports injuries in my 20s are coming back to haunt me now. A motorcycle accident at 30 is still exacting it’s price. I have had afew major heart surgeries, and just had my left knee replaced. I have a torn ligimernt in my right shoulder and have severe degenerative arthritis in my back and right knee. Staying in shape is no longer my concern; staying mobile and functional has taken priority.
         However, I will agree that the lessening of the T level to something more manageble has been just fine with me, although I think 35 is too soon. For me it was in my late 40s. I have the satisfaction of having raised a bunch of kids, and now have adults with children of their own. My life is now more about me than about them, and that is nice. At my 60th birthday most of the guests would not believe I am 60. My 32 year old wife keeps me in a social setting with other s in their late 20s and early 30s. Age at some level is an attitude and they say I still act young. I guess that is better than saying I act childish. But believe me I feel every one of those well earned years.

         1. Sounds like you had an interesting life Mike. Accidents and such are what they are, you have to deal with them. I was speaking more along the line of men who didn’t have such mishaps.
            Good job on the younger wife, that’s the way to do it.

   2. I used to be like you when I was 18 and 19. There is a book called “Testosterone Rewind: The Testosterone Formula Liftoff” by Matt Cook. It tells you everything you need to know about your diet and way of life. Sadly, I don’t remember how I got it on my PC.
      Also, do some Kegels. No, they are not only for women. Kegels develop your PC muscle (like every other muscle), which increases the blood flow in that area, which increases the testosterone production, the number of testosterone receptors (I don’t really know what exactly that means), and also you will shoot like a pornstar.

      1. I heard squat lifts were good for that. Also HIIT if it doesn’t make you barf.

   3. To be perfectly honest the drop in libido is welcome. It’s only after 35 was I able to actually start thinking with my main head and get shit done in life.
      As for the physical stuff, it’s bullshit. All that “losing your hair and muscle to take hormones NOW! (and Kratom too)” stuff for “older men” is bullshit. Genetics and health control hair loss and show me a man who went to pot because he “got older” and I’ll show you a lazy sack of shit who eats garbage every time. The self-indulgence generation (boomers mainly) ate their way into the situation that most of them are in now: big fat sexless blobs.
      If you have a good diet and keep your machine exercised all this “aging” shit that advertisements say will happen, won’t happen.
      But yes, libido drops a little. Thank God. It does not mean you become a eunuch. And I have found I get laid without even trying because I don’t have baby batter making me “too eager”. Since you know, being eager to get laid is seen as a weakness. I don’t give a shit and I still get action.

   4. This varies a lot from person to person. But if you stay in great shape, look for sexy younger women abroad, keep your mind active, and stay positive, you might actually improve as you get older. That’s been my experience.

      1. I can vouch for that. Good diet and exercise is (as it has always been) the key.

         1. True, people always give me 26-28, but Im in my 30s. Just eat and excercise well, oh, and a good sleep.

   5. Get checked out. Get blood work done. Could be a simple as low vitamin D, which is easily fixed. Vitamin D issue are common since we work in doors and shower a lot. For Vit D to form (its actually a hormone) oil on your skin has to be exposed to the sun and stay there a while for your body to absorb it.
      A while back I found out I had an issue with vitamin levels. I needed more B group vitamins than I was getting from a diet (I eat lots of veggies.. it wasn’t a diet issue). When I started taking a supplement regimen energy levels went up a lot. Supplements combined with exercise: dropped a pant size, lost 25 lbs of fat, fixed a bad cholesterol issue, and it made me want to strip my wife naked and rape her on a fairly regular basis (with her blessing). I feel better in my mid 40s than I did in my later 30s.
      If your find and correct any issues like above… get on a serious weight lifting program. The human body wasn’t designed to sit behind a desk all day. Us men evolved for hunting and combat. Lethargy kills us (and does cause your T levels to drop). I would recommend you check out some videos and books by Mark Rippetoe. He gives some (IMHO) really good, simple advice on building muscle.

      1. Indeed. Men need to be lifting and sprinting regularly. Sprinting is, by far, one of the most effective and must underutilized forms of exercise out there.

         1. Yes on that. No one sprints and I think there are all kinds of hormonal spikes when you run full speed. Name the one exercise middle age people NEVER do and that can be a clue as to why middle age people are almost always sacks of shit.
            Also;
            http://www.artofmanliness.com/2015/03/06/how-to-deadlift-video/

         2. Just reminded me, a few years back during my 2 cardio sessions a week, I’d only go 10-15 min on elliptical, but 3 times during each session I’d sprint on the machine for 30 seconds… pulsing my exertion.
            Ironically, after the 2nd day I started doing that, I banged my main with probably the hardest boner I’ve ever had in my life. I was 39 then.

   6. Im in my 30s, still enjoy good sex, but my libido is half of what it used to be 10 years ago. Getting laid a lot stops being a priority.

   7. Its odd you should notice any change at all in your 20s. Some men lose their hair young but it doesn’t make them feel different physically any other way. If you’re working out and eating right, and not getting drunk all the time, your libido should be there for you. I mean like twice a day if the woman is attractive. I found when I started doing whey protein powder that I crashed hard during the day. That’s because of the tryptophan which makes you sleepy. Some people only do protein powder before the go to bed because its makes them feel groggy. Also try vitamin D3 if you work indoors and dont get sunshine. If that doesn’t help maybe spend $ to get physical exam with doctor and lab tests.
      Honesty, I’ve noticed that just being around unattractive or annoying females has a depressing effect on mood. I think it might actually trick the brain into reducing the body’s testosterone production. Conversely being around attractive hot women makes me buzzed even if don’t get to fuck them.

   8. I’m 58 and of course your sex drive, libido goes down. I don’t have to take Viagra yet, I have been taking about 4,000 milligrams daily of L-Arginine which helps with libido and erections. Energy is about sleeping good, sexual health, staying physically active, keeping at your perfect weight, stay mentally fit, yoga, meditation. If you are in your 20’s and start today you will be in great shape. Keep everything in perspective, world events and your day to day life.

   9. Who cares if the libido drops? LOL. It’s not like that. Once the libido drops your mind will stop that: I’ve got to get laid, I’ve got to get laid, I’ve got to get laid, I’ve got to get laid. It’s actually very peaceful to not be 100% preoccupied with sex, or how you’ll gonna get it. And btw, the instrument still works 2-3 times a week. Don’t worry about that.
      There are other things that bother me.. And believe it or not, here’s one of them: The society, this… I don’t know what to call it… will continue pushing you to make more and more and more. Money will come your way, lots of it and you will be FORCED to take it, and of course pay the appropriate price. I don’t want more money, I don’t want more things, I don’t want more go go go. I want it to stop, and I can’t make it stop. I want to smell the flowers, I want to find peace, and I can’t. I am being begged to take the money, and I don’t want to but I have to. How fucked up is all that?

      1. So take the money and use it to build a pile of “fuck you” on the side, then walk away when the urge strikes you to go smell the flowers.

         1. It’s what I’m doing. If all goes well one or two years the most and that’s it. My ideal lifestyle would be work 6 months and sit 6 months. I think that’s doable pretty soon..

         2. I know a couple of men who do contract type work, a couple of weeks on, a couple off (voluntarily). Seems to work for them, at least superficially from what I can see from the outside.

      2. Well, you have the opposite problem as me. I really don’t care for money; I barely make and barely spend.
         You can always drop everything and find your peace if you choose to. There are people who live fine without money like Mark Boyle.

   10. Well here’s the ages I felt noteable changes physically. 29, 31,33, 39, 41. Don’t cheat sleep. At 41, I just can’t ignore the necessity of sleep. I’m more prone to push something off a bit further, to get the precious sleep we all need. I still fuck, lift, wit’s on par with my best stream of consciousness ever.
       Re. libido, you’d be surprised how much of that is tied to your mind. Removing “anxiety” based around getting laid, and what ANYONE thinks about you is key. In fact, it wasn’t until this year – all factors considered – that a slight drop in my libido, in the physical sense was noticed.

   11. This will sound weird….
       Lift weights
       Eat organic
       Avoid xenoestrogens.

       1. Xenoestrogens? Life-estrogens?

          1. Compounds that your body reacts to as if they are estrogen.
             Google xeno-estrogen. You will be astonished.

          2. ty

4. Co-sign this entire article.
   And this can cause you a lot of frustration. Because if you’re in shape
   and you’re older, you’re going to feel just as good now as you did
   twenty years ago. And yet you will have to suffer listening to some dork
   tell you that you can’t do this or can’t do that. Or you will be able
   to sense that people don’t approve of your doing this or doing that.
   People are always trying to restrict you, to rope you into their corral.
   And you have to fight this.
   This is absolutely, positively correct. And if you’re single (or people think that you are) and you’re in shape and successful you’ll be fighting off a near constant stream of people trying to “hook you up” with this that or the other girl. The idea seems to be that there is some cardinal sin in a fit, wealthy 40-something man not having a wallet sucker attached to his hip.

   1. I’m young, but when people try to shove shit like that in my face, I usually respond that I prefer being happy.
      Everyone should decide for himself what makes him happy.

   2. I run into the same thing, except people are saying I should act more young.

      1. That’s code for “Act like an irresponsible moron with no impulse control” I’d bet. Being a 20 something man used to mean buckling down and getting your life in order so that you could achieve great things over time. Now it seems to mean sitting around acting like a fool, slobbering over sluts and saying “wooooo!” everytime somebody wants to high five you.

         1. Yes. Young people are now encouraged to piss away their 20’s and get ‘serious’ in their 30’s. It is a bad strategy because at that point you may have already lost 8-10 good earning years by blowing your money on lifestyle demands etc.
            A lot of people my age ask me how I paid off my home by the time I was in my mid 30s. It is because I lived at home until I was 30 paying it off and not going on two holidays a year and eating at fancy restaurants wearing designer clothes. The only ‘break’ I had is when I lived in Greece during the mid 00’s, but I was working in Greece, not lying on the beach all day.
            Young people today lack discipline across the board, especially financial discipline.

         2. I have a mixed opinion on this. I’m mid 20’s, well-eduated, and will most definitely not have 8-10 good earning years by time I reach 30. I’ve spent most of the time working, but would probably have more regrets if I didn’t take time off to vacation.
            I don’t consider $50k/yr and socking away 5k in savings as a “good earning year.” It’s very difficult to get in the $150k+ range in your twenties. It really is a key income level for me, because as you pointed out, I don’t have the best financial discipline and prefer to live life without bean-counting every time I grab food or clothes. I’ve accepted that if I’m a five figure earner for the rest of my career, I will never retire and most likely die with debt.

         3. Most people will never earn anywhere near as much as 150k. I earned less than you for most of my 20’s but I managed to save a lot of money.
            It was hard though, I won’t lie.

         4. It will be harder for me. If you are 10 years older than me, you could have bought the DOW at 9k. If you are 20 years older, 4k DOW. Call me crazy, but I don’t see a 35k DJIA coming up in the next 10 years, the US just isn’t growing like that.

         5. Compound interest will make you plenty well off. It sucks up front, but it will pay off.

         6. Yup, but want to 401k doing most of that work. I don’t trust the market short term, so it’s either precious metals or cash or the Swiss stock market and cross my fingers.

         7. I only trade the market long term with my IRA, to much volatility otherwise. I moved to cash in the IRA back in August, I actually beat the mini crash. Short term I play the bond market. I can usually make 6% a year on my cash account without much hassle.

   3. You really nail it here GoJ. I am single and live alone. I can’t spit without finding someone who knows someone who “would be perfect” for me.
      I went out for a celebratory dinner the other night with a coworker after a large project finished. He brought his wife so it was just the three of us. A solid 1/3 of the night was spent with her asking me what kind of woman I want to settle down with.
      I have a home which is exactly the way I want it, a cleaning lady twice a week, grocery delivery, an Israeli woman who picks up my clothes and does the laundry / dry cleaning. The time I have that isn’t spent at work gets spent exactly the way I want it to be.
      I have some left over vacation days and will use one on Thursday. I am going to stay home and just chill out. Might order some stone crabs.
      I can get laid with such ease at this point that it has become boring.
      Why, in the name of all that is holy, would I want to bring the responsibility of a woman into this.
      I now tell all people who wish to set me up exactly what I tell my mother. My future wife will be born when I am 60. I will marry her at 78. She can be arm candy and diaper cleaning and I will leave her everything I’ve earned.

      1. With modern tech you’ll probably be able to live 78 with an AI sexbot slave or longevity medicine that will reverse aging.

         1. I’m ecstatic for the eventual anti-aging process, which should really kick in during my middle or old age. No, we won’t get our sweet post-wall revenge, but the amount of fertile looking young women will quadruple.

      2. Women have that “match-making instinct”, according to Otto Weininger.
         They can’t stand the idea of a man not satisfying an other woman.
         This instinct gets stronger as they get older.

      3. It depends. Do you want kids?

         1. lolknee: She can be arm candy and diaper cleaning and I will leave her everything I’ve earned.
            Bob: It depends.
            Masterful pun, sir.

         2. Ha ha!

         3. That, of course, is a mitigating factor for many. The idea of having children is deplorable for me. I realize that my lifestyle can’t be sustained with children if you wish to raise them correctly.

         4. That’s a fair attitude. Better than many men, who just assume that they should have kids and then do a piss poor job of raising them or, most of the time, letting “mom” raise them.
            It’s the same attitude I take towards “career” women who say that they made a choice and will not be having children. Hey, it’s consistent, fair and better than putting a kid through that if she didn’t really want him.

         5. Guy I work with who is a really decent family man. Kind of guy who has never had a speeding ticket and put his wife first from the day he was married until she had kids and then put kids first and did everything right said that the most noble thing I ever did was not squeeze out kids I want.
            As for giving money to charity or leaving it to a family that is just more frames imposed upon a person. Just because I make X money I should be giving it away to worthy causes? Fuck that. That is a frame too. Only worthy cause I give a shit about is me.

         6. Indeed. I have thought the same. I have a bachelor pad and chicks who come when I want (no pun intended) and leave when I’m done with them.
            I enjoy this life but I am starting to think that while it will be a major sacrifice to give it up, it might be time to take on the ultimate challenge of raising children. Someone to carry on the legacy so to speak.

         7. I can respect and understand the desire, I just don’t have it. I have my reasons and can talk about them until the sun comes up. I wouldn’t criticize people who think otherwise, but I just don’t want to set up a legacy. The lolknee memorial brothel and scotch emporium would be nice, but even that I don’t care too much about.

      4. Fuck leaving her everything you’ve earned, that is only encouraging the golddiggers. Leave her… say 10% and the rest to whoever else you love, hopefully maybe a kid or a charity that actually fights for what your passionate about… but your gold digging, arm candy wife? HELL NO

         1. you do realise he was just saying that to get on her nerves.

         2. I can’t wait to be 80 and have a gold digging woman. I have no family and no progeny. When I get to a particular age I want to spend my very last dime on luxury. I would never do it now as I have a particularly high SMV and barely bother to learn a girls name, but when my wrinkly ass is old I am gonna get me one of them gold digging trophy wives. That is, by the way, what I am passionate about. I don’t have nor will I ever want children and fuck charity.

         3. So your gonna give all your money to these shameless ass golddigging whores and help perpetuate that culture? Fine, if thats what you want… personally I though we here at ‘Return Of Kings’ were trying to fight that type of crap.

         4. Actually… leave your money to a guild of assassins who will kill your trophy wife when you die and then go on to kill every feminist they can locate until your funds run out… that sounds much better. Also, I am gonna enjoy luxery a little sooner then when I am an old man…

         5. Who’s her?

         6. I’m not about that murder life. As for “fighting against” anything, that’s not my cup of tea. I just want to enjoy myself as much as possible in all the ways I find pleasurable. I get that the world and culture is a fucked to death pile of doo doo….that’s how I found it and I don’t plan to lift finger one to try and fix it. I’ve assessed the situation, figured out how to work it towards my advantage and will enjoy it the best I can until check out time.

         7. the wife of his friend who tried setting him up with one of her post wall bitches.

         8. Oh, I get that, but If as speaking of something entirely diff… nm though… he has the right idea. Its his money and his life and he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants… screw what anyone else thinks. I do agree with that line of thinking, even if I think its a big waste to leave it all to a golddigging whore who did nothing to deserve all that hard earned wealth.

         9. I feel you.

      5. Well said lolknee.

      6. All I’m saying is, if you’re a great guy, don’t you want to leave kids of your own in the world and don’t you want to have a strong hand in raising them? Maybe you do and you have other plans for that other than settling down with a woman. I might be imposing my frame on you.

         1. Truthfully, I am not that great a guy. I am incredibly selfish. I would be a terrible parent.

   4. ^^^^
      THIS!

   5. 41 signing on. When people act like you have a “problem” with settling down or finding a “good woman,” what they insist on not admitting, is that what they really want to say is damn.. I wish I was like him. If only…..

   6. I actually felt like I had to fight more against other people’s frames when I was younger. I had less experience, less confidence and less physical and mental strength. I used to care what other people thought of me.
      Now I don’t give two shits what other people think. I do my thing and to hell with everyone else. And frankly, other people don’t even try to tell me what to do or how to act because they know what my answer will be.

   7. Well stated dear friend. Nothing further need be added.

5. “Getting older means more combat. So get used to it.”
   Sage wisdom in that sentence. Excellent article. I am reminded of the speech Pacino gives to his football team in the movie Any Given Sunday:
   

6. The only problem with getting older is having to fuck older women.
   (read: it means you didn’t get up on your game enough to be fucking the younger ones).
   That post-30 vagina stink is a drag. I remember that first muffin when we were 18. It’s never been so fresh.
   Now it’s more like a biscuit, with cheese.

   1. biscuit with cheese…

   2. Nothing’s worse than questionable pussy stench. I’ve had to explain to a few moronic clown bitches::”Look, your pussy is like a petri dish that’s almost always closed festering some bio-hazard. Keep that shit clean as hell or watch dicks deflate.”
      I fucked-fucked around with some girls that are 7-9s in outward appearance only to discover a waft of unkept gash bad enough to wince a skunk. This is probably the ONLY thing a woman must learn in her life to maintain base-level value. Surprisingly, many don’t.

   3. Oh man I got some strong visuals and olfactory stimulation with this one… ahhhhh, nice!

7. Sounds like being an older man is like being a younger woman (in terms of people bringing you down and stuff), and being an older woman is like being a younger man.
   Food for thought. Especially in terms of the competition, people bringing you down thing.

   1. The testosterone levels in men decline with age and vice versa for women.

      1. Only if you let it. You have a lot of control over it until you get *really* old. Most 40 something men, and even 50 something men, allow their T levels to fall through laziness.

   2. That’s correct.

8. Growing older is one of those paths that we must all cross in our lifetime. The truth of the matter is that as we grow older, than so do the daily pressures and expectations of what we must deal with in our everyday lives. Whether it is paying the bills, feeding our kids, finding the best time to make the family vacation and so on and so forth. But whatever it is, we must learn to find a way to deal with these in a timely and mature manner.
   The truth is, from my own personal observations, there is a huge difference in which we as men, grow older from our female counterparts. As men grow older, so does our knowledge, wisdom and our senses to our surroundings and environment and with time, we are able to progress through the chapters of life in a coherent and systematic way. We can handle the challenges and tasks of life in a healthy manner, with a sense of realism. But women on the otherhand, do not understand this concept of time and age. As I look around at today’s women, they only seem to be more obsessed with trying to go back to their childhood mentalities and never seem to have in reality, grown up.
   From their obsession of social media consuming their social lives, to playing constant office politics, gossip and drama during their professional lives, it never ceases to amaze me how much they validate the famous phrase: “you can take the girl out of high school, but you cannot take the high school out of the girl.” The obsession of nostalgia is unhealthy for the mind and soul, and can lead to the chances of not being able to grasp reality or be able to move forward with the times. Unlike women, men should embrace their age and not to fear it.
   Which is why I encourage all men out there, to take charge of their masculinity and whatever situation they come across during their lifetime. Attached to age, comes wisdom and maturity, and in conjunction with our life experiences and being able to take responsibility for our successes and failures, one should never stop taking charge of the present nor fear the future of their own pathway in this life. No matter how much the world is burning down and how much older we get, men should learn to keep moving forward, regardless of whatever life throws at them.

   1. Not everyone must trudge the opath to old age; some die young.

9. It’s good to see an article for older men. I am not in that category (although it has been said that my beliefs about the British Empire are).
   The truth is known to have a Tory Imperialist bias.

   1. Actually I think this article was targeted more at the younger men who want to know what the deal is with getting older!

10. I just hit the upper half of my 30’s and can honestly say I am more happy and content than ever in my life. I absolutely do not want to go back to my 20’s when I was a hot mess. I may be old and boring and go to bed at 10 p.m. on the weekend, but god damn am I up early and getting shit done.

    1. I had a fucking great time in my 20’s actually, on balance. To do it again, sure, but I still don’t feel like I’m old yet in my late 40’s so it’s not a real issue for me and I don’t feel this nostalgic urge to “go back to what I once was” since I pretty much haven’t changed when it comes to physical fitness nor attitude. If I actually aged and let myself go I’d probably feel a lot more pull towards “going back”.
       Now if you put me back into the 1980’s, even at my age, I’d be highly appreciative. Heh.

11. I am nearly 80,I still run down the road after girls but when I catch up I’ve forgotten what I chased them for.

    1. “Was it good for you?”
       “I can’t remember.”

    2. Alzheimer’s Game
       “Can I have my number please?”

12. Learn from others before you of the pitfalls if you go a certain path. Learn from other’s mistakes so you don’t learn it on your own.
    Also never worry about what other people might think of you if you do this or that. As long as you’re doing it for your good and not hurting anyone else in the process. Especially do not listen to a woman trying to manipulate you to feel guilty or ashamed if you don’t do this or that.

    1. “Especially do not listen to a woman trying to manipulate you to feel guilty or ashamed if you don’t do this or that.”
       Damn straight. Everything that comes from the mouth of a woman is one of two things: either a lie, or manipulation. Do not fall for any of that. Never, ever believe what a woman says.

13. I’m 33 and loving it, I have money and the time to travel and work on personal projects. it’s great

    1. They are asking the older guys to comment. you are still a baby.

       1. And here I was thinking I was getting old at 27…

       2. I’m far from a baby

    2. 33 is the prime time in life, when you’ve lost the fantasy of immortality, buckled down and make some bread, yet still have your vibrant health and strength. Enjoy it.

       1. Thanks, I have realizedtoa degree. 30’s have been pretty nice to me

          1. Realizing a golden age really lets you get down to brass tacks and enjoy it thoroughly. I think a lot of what we call “mid life crisis” is really men waking up to the realization that they weren’t even cognizant of their golden age.

14. In america if you’re a celebrity you have social permission to date women half your age. Nobody even thinks about it. Its normal. Nobody questions you. Also in some asian cultures I know its not an issue. But feminists have spent a lot of time and energy fucking up social attitudes on this for men, making it more difficult to maintain frame.

    1. How else could they stay in the sexual market if they had to compete against the hotties half their age?

    2. The man who truly does not give a fuck will still date young, and further, that confidence and insouciance towards others is highly attractive to young women.
       Feminism only goes so far, and it doesn’t cancel those deeply seated nearly primal attraction cues in heterosexual women.

       1. This.

    3. Power is something you take.
       Anyone who doesn’t like it that I date young, attractive women can take their opinions and shove them up their ass. All of my friends get it, including the wives (with a couple of exceptions, but fuck them). The people who want to make an issue of it are usually post-Wall hags who tarried too long on the Cock Carousel and think they are somehow ‘entitled’ to a successful man in their age cohort, now that their looks are gone and their wombs are dried up, dusty raisins.
       Wrong.
       Anyway, aside from those women, and the occasional WK or hen-pecked husband, my friends are supportive. Sometimes I get an “Only you could get away with [however I happen to be living my life at the moment]”, but the truth is, it’s all (a) confidence and (b) maintaining frame.
       Mistral

15. Agreed 100% about letting go of people that keep you from your full potential.
    As a late 20s dude I’ve hung out with a range of people and I know exactly what it’s like to waste time on bullshit friends. When you’re having a rough time in life it’s not uncommon to fall into someone else’s frame. Don’t fall into the frame of some user or low-life.
    Take ownership of your own failures and responsibilities, but don’t underestimate the influence that shitty people can have on your development and peace of mind.

16. According to MSN, VA Fraternity that was accused of Gang Rape by the Rolling Stones that was latter debunked as False, has now sued Rolling Stones for $25 million Dollars.

    1. What’s that got to do with this article?

       1. Nothing, but I thought it should be mentioned.

          1. Nothing says “get dunces out of your life like not supporting nonsense like this. Screw Rolling Stone.

       2. There was a previous article and lots of comments about it.

17. I agree partly with aspects of this article. I would say nevertheless that I’ve found becoming maturer in age by and large a very positive and rewarding experience. I feel more like a complete man now than ever before. I’m more confident, determined, but also detached, even serenely so to situations or with people I would have found intolerable and annoying in my 20s. Additionally, I’ve turned more inward, discovering states about myself I never registered before . I’ve become more reflective and more immune to the whims and cares of the crowd and all the other passing affairs of the world. Even today at lunchtime in work, I went out for a walk and sat on a city park bench and just observed everything going on around me, like the approaching nakedness of the trees, the brown/red leaves being swept along, office workers, families, dog walkers all part of the rich collage. Years ago, I’d never had paid any attention to such mundane “facts” as I was so wrapped up in the world or indeed in myself.
    Yes, your frame of reference certainly changes with experience, how could it not? But, this is not necessarily something you “fight” because ultimately it’s not something you can fight, and expect to win against. I found my frame of reference has loosed with age, and this has been a marvelous relief in most cases. I’m completely indifferent about what most people whom I’ve no meaningful relationship think about me anymore, they all know, I do and say my own thing, and, the majority of people respect me for that. When I was younger I was a lackey to often, I was cowed by people who I thought were wiser and more powerful than I, now I realize years later how stupid and weak this people were, and I can’t believe how docile I was then and all I do now is smile and laugh.

18. Don’t fool yourself – getting old is a bugger. After you hit 40 the descent begins.
    Yes, you can maintain your body and fool some people about your age but not a day goes by that I don’t wish I could go 20 years back.
    No money nor wisdom can substitute for the privilege of youth. What good are they in an aching body?

    1. Would you change it if the Doc arrived in his delorean. Personally, I’m not sure if I’d like to be eternally young, but, if I can think of an age I could stop getting old at, it would be about 35. That’s a prime time.

    2. I would also like to get back 20 years, but with the mind and life experience I have right now. Otherwise, no thank you.

19. Nothing keeps a man feeling young better than a young woman. I’m 36, she’s 21

20. Quintus hit the nail right on its head! When you get older you start to see the nonsense that people do. Making and telling you live a certain way a life of rigidness and boring! Life is no linear but full of hills, curves and mountains. Never does it rarely travel a straight line.
    People will try to instill their frames on you all the time. It’s relentless! You can’t do this or that, no you cannot date a woman in her twenties that is so not politically correct!
    Frames like Quintus said should not be so rigid but make it loose like water so that you will be able to be open to new ideas, people, cultures and the like.
    I say be open and not close your life off from enjoying your life.
    Quintus great post!

    1. Thanks, man.

       1. No problem Quintus! It was pleasure to be of help!

21. It’s interesting as I was thinking about this very same thing on the way home, and then I read this article… It is absolutely true. As for me I cut everybody off. There, fixed that problem..
    Now, here’s something old guys have that young guns don’t: failures. You see? We talk a lot about what does it mean to be a man. Oh, you have to do this and you have to act like that.. DHV, be alof, etc. In other words: pretend.
    Here’s what makes a man, a man. What does he do when he’s down and under, when he’s counted out and spit on.. when he lost everything and he feels his own blood in his mouth? What does a man do then is what matters. Nothing more and nothing less. You see, being a man in this world is not only being alone and fight it all on your own… Everybody wants to take things from you: the State, the girlfriend, the ex-wife, the children, even other men.
    Men are forged through the fire of life and until you get through that, you can act all you want.. You will always have that nagging voice in the back of your mind: what do I do, and how will I get back on my feet when the going gets tough, because though it will get. You will never be able to maintain your frame, because the frame has not much to back it up. Please understand, I have a lot of respect for the younger guys seeking information, bettering themselves, etc.(oh, how I wish I had this information years ago…), but things are just the way they are. Frame must always be backed by facts, and in particular by failures. Keep this in mind: welcome failure. Only failure will show you who you really are. And once you figure out who you are and what your limits are, then everything will just fall into place.

    1. Word!!!

    2. Holy shit. Poetic. If ever in Seattle, look me up. I will buy you a drink or two for this one.

       1. I appreciate it.

    3. Righteous words…Reminds me of Kipling’s poem “If” sorta…

    4. Here’s what makes a man, a man. What does he do when he’s down and under, when he’s counted out and spit on.. when he lost everything and he feels his own blood in his mouth?
       What does he do? RISE.

       1. That’s one. And there’s another. I have contemplated both. The second not only seemed pretty grim, but it actually pissed me off. I wouldn’t do anything to myself, that’s just retarded but, I figured if I’m gone (let’s say I get a stroke or a hearth attack) they’ll only find me in this apartment several weeks out when the rent is due. Coming to that realization, puts a lot of things in perspective. So it was all up from there. With that being said, throughout my life I had 2 or 3 of these situations. I can look back at my life and recognize these as major inflection points. I’ve always got out of them, and be way better off than before. Way better… But you’ve got to get to the bottom first. I don’t think there’s a way around that.

          1. In the long run, we’re all dead. Get busy doing what you want to do with your life because the clock is always winding down.

22. What it’s like to get older is this: you realise you’ve seen the same bullshit, the same lies, and the same stories and rationalisations for behaviour a hunded times before. Newspapers fill you with despair not because of events, but because you’re able to pick out how and when they try and play on your emotions to get you to click on them.
    Self-help and new-age books weary you because you recognise exactly the same message given in them as having been given by a vastly more talented and dead Grecian, Roman, Christian, or Enlightenment philosopher, just in a slightly different package. You recognise that your earlier fuckups as a young man were not mistakes as such but brought you to become the man you are now.
    You also notice that women, as they age, look more and more like old men.
    You also get, for the first time, a glimpse of the long dark that’s waiting for you at the end of your road, at the end of everyone’s road. That probably changes your perspective more than anything else. Women and their bullshit don’t matter as much. Causes don’t matter as much. Family matters more, and legacies matter more.

    1. pretty profound stuff

    2. Great comment.

23. Work out, stay in shape, don’t retire, refuse to be politically correct, leave little girls alone, feel free to flirt, dress with class for whatever the occasion, don’t retire, play golf, enjoy your adult children, enjoy your wife, but remember who’s boss, pay off all your debts, get rid of negative people, drink less alcohol, smoke cigars but not too many, don’t retire.

    1. Well said. But I say retire into something meaningful. Get rid of that job working for “the man” or increasingly “the bitch”.
       And do your thing

    2. My dad retired from the military, then got a civilian job and retired from it and now spends his time golfing, shooting trap, hanging out with friends and motorcycling across these united States, sometimes even stopping by so his son can join him on a ride. Retirement didn’t do him in, but he knows to keep active as well.

       1. I deal with many retirees. They’re busy people, but I also see my share of those who are watching death’s slow approach.

24. Yeah well, this kind of pressure will only increase in time with men not wanting to have anything to do with these degenerate human beings called modern women. The desperation will be palpable.

25. They’re called schemas.

26. One thing that maybe hasn’t come up is the question of;
    ‘Why does everyone want to impose their correct frame on others?’
    My answer is that, especially as you get older, your investment in your own way of life starts creeping up into the 3,4,5, up to 6 decade range. And of course, your remaining decades dwindle accordingly. So it means that most people have some subconscious feeling of; “My frame (way of life) damn well better have been the correct one.” Because there’s no time left. The pain of a 78 year old realizing that he had it all wrong is just too painful. So people need their frames to have been the correct ones. What we are finding here in the ‘sphere is that most frames were not correct. But no one’s going to acknowledge that. Instead they will fill their trunks with disapproval upon being exposed to someone whose frame is vastly different than their own.
    I’m a forty-something, non-married and I can feel the head-shakes behind my back, if you will, by guys who are so exhausted with overwork and undersex that they don’t even know it. It’s usually unsaid stuff and I might be overestimating it but there is something there. Miserable men will not acknowledge that they simply could have chosen differently.
    Whenever I am criticized openly (given advice on how to live, iow). I just say, “Hey, calm down, chew your prozac fully and then give me advice. Get the prozac down. I don’t want anyone choking to death on their prozac in some haste to tell me how to live. Swallow your prozac first and then let me know how it’s done.”

    1. exactly. its really all about the ego. most people’s ego can’t take the hit that they’ve been duped.

27. OMG that’s the truth man.

28. Thank you for the great article..
    idea: Can we have a monthly feature where the older gentlemen on the forum spit their advice on life..

    1. (I agree. Monthly would be about right. I am speaking as an older dude. too.)

    2. We more or less do across various articles of interest, but a thread once a month to Q&A the Old Farts might be instructive.

29. Sorry I missed this article cause most of you will miss this comment.
    Life can get much better as you get older.
    With time comes experience, knowledge and resources (money).
    Good luck brothers.

30. Getting older? Cal Smith got it right when he said “It takes me all night to do what I used to do all night long”…but i still dig it!

31. 48 checking-in. Being older is fucking great. Hey, do I wish I could do EXACTLY the same shit, athletically, as I did when I was 19? Sure. But as long as you don’t become a shoggoth, it won’t bother you that you’ve lost a step.
    Stuff I Have LURNED in my 40s
    1. Everyone else is trying to BE somebody; you already ARE somebody. While everyone else is trying to figure out what to do with your life, you already know, and have executed the plan. I work from home and have a shit-ton of free time, while making bank. How? I fucking planned it that way. I made myself indispensable and then I disappeared. That was 7 years ago.
    2. Frame Control. In your 40s you should be the GAWDDAM JEDI MASTER of Frame Control. Why? Because you Don’t Give A FUCK. Once upon a time, I dressed someone down on a business call who richly deserved it with lethal precision. The president of my firm happened to overhear me (I knew he was within earshot, but, hey, IDGAF, so I did what I do). After I hung up, he looked at me, chuckling, and said, “Mistral, I *wish* I could talk to people the way you do!” IOW, the HMFIC adopted my frame. (N.B. I responded: “You can! It’s therpeutic and fun!”) I’m actually a bit scared of the shit that I’m going to say when I’m in my 60s, b/c my filter doesn’t catch much now.
    3. Work On Yourself and the Pussy Will Flow. There is nothing special about me, looks-wise. Sure, I’m tall and white, but otherwise, I look like I break legs for a living, so it’s really a wash. My hair is thinning out (my forehead isn’t quite yet a “five-head” but that day will come), and my nose is crooked (note to self: next time, get in a fight with a LEFT-handed guy. Maybe things will even out.) So on my best days, I’m just barely average-looking with a serious tilt towards ugly. Yet my #1 plate is 19 years old and a HB 8.5. She just asked me to get my some of my mom’s recipes from my sister so she can cook how I like. {“And what happened next? Well in Whoville they say, the Grinch’s small heart grew three sizes that day.” Naw, j/k, but that was pretty sweet of her.} Another one is 26, and two more are 23. There are a couple of potentials out there, but no PiV yet so they don’t count. In 2014 and part of 2015, I was dating 2×22 y.o. roommates (one of the 23 y.o. is one of that pair). If you remember nothing else from this post remember this: for most men, it’s 1-2 points for looks, 1-2 points for money and 6 points for game. Life is what you make of it.
    4. Fear of Hitting Bottom is Way Worse Than Actually Hitting Bottom. I’ve been broke twice in my life. The world doesn’t end. As long as you have your health and your brain, you can fight back. Keep doing it and shit will get better. Keep hustling.
    5. They Can’t Fuck With You If You Have Options. That’s true whether it’s women or employers. Keep your skills sharp and be ready to walk. The best thing that you can do is find a way to work for yourself. I do law and then private placements on the side. Once you.
    6. The ‘Wall’, for Men, is Death. We really do get the better deal, assuming we choose to seize it.
    Anyway, sorry for rambling. Good luck out there. Now go forth and SLAY!
    À bientôt,
    Mistral

    1. Welcome back! It’s been awhile.
       Insightful & inspiring comment, Mistral.

       1. Thanks. It was kind of stream of consciousness. We have to start writing this shit down for the younger guys.
          I have been out in California doing my job and my boss’ job for a few months. Got back in time for autumn and winter. Too much soft living for my tastes. It’s good to be back in the Northeast.

    2. Pro post.
       We’d of been in high school together and more likely than not in the same graduating class.
       And yes, working from home with a scandalous amount of free time while doing so, while pulling in bank is the way to go.

    3. ‘I work from home and have a shit-ton of free time, while making bank.’
       Care to elaborate how you did this? Just curious because I have a good deal of free time but a little lost on how to turn it into money.

       1. Care to elaborate how you did this?
          I will, but regrettably, it’s not something that is easy to replicate.
          I started by making bank (right skill set, right industry) and then turned it into working from home. I am a regional guy in a region where we don’t really have an office. There is an office of the parent company that I am, theoretically, supposed to got to, and I do go in every so often, to show the flag. but that’s it. There’s nobody there that I actually work with, and they don’t really give a shit about what I do with my time, so long as my work gets done. My desk phone forwards to my mobile and I do what I want with my time. Power is something you take.
          Later, we were bought by a different company in the same region. Again, there is theoretically and office I go to, when I want. It’s more ‘official’ now: I sit in on their legal group’s meetings and when I first got there, and I kept them out of a lot of trouble (it wasn’t intentional on their part, they just didn’t know what they were doing yet). So eventually the GC took me aside and said, “I need to keep you here. What will make you happy?” and I replied that I wanted to work from home. Done/Dusted.
          I also got to be friends with the chiefs, so when there is the occasional wobbly movement to force me to move to the main office, I have one of them kill it. So it’s really a few factors that line up in my favor. The ‘making bank’ part comes from being an experienced guy in the right industry. My skill set would be difficult to replace *and* the deal makers love me b/c instead of finding ways to kill deals, I find ways to make them happen. As I like to say, it’s the 99% of lawyers who give the rest of us a bad name. Also, I turn and burn on shit, so nobody every has to come looking for me.
          So yeah, if it’s summer, I might be grilling burgers by the pool during the day. If I want to have a plate over during the day b/c I feel like a ‘nooner’, I do. (the 19 y.o. is still in college, so she’s not working outside of classes and occasionally babysitting her much younger brother). To her, my house is like a resort compared to the dorm, and she’s happy sunbathing naked by the pool, getting boned, and cooking me dinner. Life is sweet.
          On the more practical front, I can also get errands done at off-peak times, which is a convenience. If I wanted to spend a month in Florida or a week in Vegas, no one would be the wiser–so long as I have mobile phone coverage and internet, I can do what I do from anywhere.
          Also, now that I am an older guy with free cash, I do some private placements, which brings in more $. Eventually, I will switch over to that.
          Anyway, my point in telling you (and anyone else reading) all this is this: What I do is possible. You may wind up having to do it in a different way, but you can do it. One of my ‘responsibilities’ as an older guy is to light up the path for the younger guys coming up behind me. Don’t get caught up in the political bullshit. Find a way to maximize income/freedom, and live your life the way you want to. I think the next generation down will have to be more nimble about it, but there’s no reason it cannot be done.
          À bientôt,
          Mistral

          1. Awesome… thank you for the indepth response. Your right, its going to be tricky to replicate what you did. However I agree completely that its possible and is one of the most rewarding things to do… becoming self-independent that is. I work for myself and I could not imagine having to fit someone else’s schedule when it comes to my time. I just wish I could figure out how to turn my free time into enough money where I could really expand my options and become a true free roaming business man.
             Your story gives me hope and I will continue to endeavor along these lines until I build my self-sufficient empire.
             Much love and regards
             Presence

32. great writing again from QC.

33. It’s absurd. Like the article mentions, she has a frame where someone my age and social status should be married, have a kid and be going to charities to buy art so some starving fucking prick somewhere can have a hamburger or some fag with aids can live another 10 years. Fuck all that noise. I will take a marble bar in a high end restaurant with women who are half my age and leave when I tell them to thank you.

34. A few things I have learned
    The older I get the more I realize how smart my father is (he was always right about everything)
    When things go haywire, I know how to fix them
    Divorce is not so bad
    Latin women are the best
    Small business is hard (but I love it)
    A daughter is a gift from God.
    You get happier and more relaxed as you age
    You dont need to be rich to be happy

35. We reinforce our own frames by affirming other people’s frames. Being aware of them and their perspectives, and seeking to see it through their eyes does not hurt. We can only be accepted by first accepting others. Not that we should seek acceptance, but it’s vital to be open, as you mention, because what we think we know is the measure by which we are wrong often.

36. Quality article. Thank you for these words Quintus.
    You put words to something I’ve noticed these last few months.
    I’m 24 and about to launch my first business. The one thing I’ve heard from most friends/acquaintances is basically: “But you already have a job. Why waste energy on a business when you can come home, relax and watch TV?”
    My family and some close friends are very supportive. That simple fact makes me grateful for them.
    One thing to say to people that try to force a negative frame on you is “What makes you say that/Why do you think that?”
    Most complainers can not explain their reasoning behind their beliefs.

37. I hear you on the dunce claim, and i just turned 37 last month. I’m already having people try to impose their frames on me in a way that didn’t happen when I was 25. I’m a financially responsible guy that owns a house and two managed funds, yet because I’m single and saving my money for myself I’m somehow doing it ‘wrong’.
    Fuck that.

38. Great article Quintus. I’ve always admired your ability to put out excellent material on a weekly basis; it’s truly a gift to be able to say so much, and to be able to say it so succinctly and with such regularity — without losing passion or flair. Good shit as always, man.
    As for the premise: I’m still a long way from 40, but I know everything you said is 100 percent true. Whenever someone attempts to bring me into their frame, my first action is to always consider the source and where they’re at in life. Are the trying to give me advice to improve my station? Or are they trying to bring me down to their level so they have someone else to share in their poor decisions and misery? It’s almost always the latter. Those people must be ignored, or, ideally, removed.
    With each passing year, I have less and less tolerance for useless small talkers, tire kickers, and bullshitters. Once upon a time it was easier to entertain them and put up with their nonsense, but nowadays I have them fucking off out of my life pretty fast. It’s damn-near compulsory to have a hairpin trigger for bullshit nowadays, and to not feel bad or guilty for cutting someone off or giving them the boot. That’s the way it has to be when you walk the path less traveled, unfortunately.

39. Excellent post Quintus. Nice to see something geared towards us older guys-I’ve just turned 38. The nicest thing about getting older is although people do try to impose their frame upon you, you start to give way less fucks about it. You see it for what it is-generally projections of their own fears and missteps. Given this wisdom you can shrug it off and go about enjoying the life you’ve built on your own terms, not a woman’s, society’s, your parents, etc…

40. You guys are joking right! I’m 60, happily married to a university student and have a four year old son. Not every country gives a woman entitlement to your assets and property. You need to get out of the USA.

    1. Where do you live? What culture is your wife?

41. I will welcome middle-age with open arms if I am able to set myself up financially and health wise.
    Your old age really banks on those two factors.

42. Older males need cover their a$$ets.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3313786/Gavin-Rossdale-cheating-Gwen-Stefani-family-nanny.html

43. What Is It Like To Get Older? From my experience being VERY POLITICALLY INCORRECT. Don’t give a shit about political correctness.. If telling the TRUTH offend ! Good it made my day ! Don’t give a shit that someone is telling me, that he/she’s offended, that I am a bigot, that I am a racist, I tell them to go & get sodomized elsewhere they would like it !
    Telling all this from experience, I was born during WWII…………….

44. Shee-it, whippersnapper! I’m 59, they’ve been telling me to ditch the bikes, guns, golf junkets, beer and broads for a long time and grow UP already. No chance. Thing you have to do as you get older is put a lot more stuff on your “got no time for” list. You have to be ruthless and merciless about it, too. That means the people and things you find annoying. In my case, the politically correct and the nightly news, especially SJW shit, which is mostly focused on men just like me anyway, you simply put it out of your life and thoughts.
    Now I’m not pulling women 20 years my junior, but I’m pulling mid-forties or so, it happens unless you have the “Fuck you” money it takes to pull 20 year olds. Still and all, I’m bangin, still in shape. Read much, learn more, but especially, you absolutely have to remove those things corrosive to your spirit from your life at every turn. It is those things and people, if allowed to occupy your thoughts, that ages you from what I’ve seen in my contemporaries.
    Only regret is, I’d like to hang around another 80 years to see how it all comes out, the fall of feminism to Islam or the Hispanic hoard. Those good folks will have feminism on THEIR “got no time for” list and the ladies will rethink their multicultural dreams. I suspect they’ll assimilate whether they like it or not. But I’d like to see feminism fall and they deserve a rough fall, for all the damage done to the country better folks built throughout my lifetime. Fear not growing old, nor the reaper. You can stop neither. Good luck to all.

    1. Enjoyed that.

45. Thanks Quintus. I’ve been noticing that a lot lately. I just bought a Benz, and people keep asking me “How much is your payment per month for that car?” and I say “I don’t make payments, I’m allergic to debt.” – because I am – but I can read the envy on their faces, because to most people here, who buy everything on credit, buying an expensive car with cash money is so far out of reach it’s completely unthinkable.
    Also, I’m 34 now, and I still sleep with young girls. I don’t pick up much anymore because I’m in a stage of annoyance with women, but the last girl I picked up at the bar was 19, and I was drunk and out with my coworkers when I did it. I clicked with her because she was fresh off the boat from Hungary, and I’m fresh off the European boat too, and I lived in Hungary for 4 months. Anyway, I actually left my coworkers, walked to the opposite end of the – oval shaped – bar and started my non-clown game with her (because she’s European, she didn’t require it) and took her home less than 2 hours later. I just had genuine conversation with her, which she appreciated, she even complained about how the guys hitting on her are so “fake” here (she meant loud obnoxious clowns that flail their arms around all night long). One of my roommates is a coworker and I know that he’s already told everybody that she was at my place in the morning. My colleagues have been different toward me ever since, and I know some of them badmouth me behind my back, like little cowards, but it validates me in a way. Then again, on occasion, a coworker will ask me “How did you do that man?”, regarding the pickup, and I answer: “Do you really want to know? It’s not a rhetorical question?” And when they say they want to know, I say: “I saw her at the other end of the bar. I noticed she was in a group of only 3 girls, and they were busier looking around the bar and drinking than talking to each other. I waited until she was about to pay for their drinks, and when the bartender gave her the debit machine, I walked up behind her. When she finished paying and returned the machine to the bartender, I tapped her on the shoulder three times, waited until she turned around, and delivered my opening line.” Now, I learned this 100% from Roosh, but when I tell them how I did it in those words, I can see the shock on their faces, especially the statement “delivered my opening line”, it’s worth filming their faces when I tell them that.
    The nicest thing about being an immigrant is that you don’t care about what the locals think of you. Not caring about what others think is the greatest possible form of freedom, so they can try to impose their frames on me as much as they want, I’m the wealthier one, and I’m the one who bangs girls that are 10 to 15 years my junior (rarely 15 years but still).
    They are also shocked when I reject a girl while at the bar, it’s so far beyond what they’re used to that they think I’m some kind of crazy, but anyway. Once I talked to a girl for awhile, and then I asked: “Were you born and raised here?” and she said yes, to which I looked at her and said: “I’m sorry but I don’t date North American women.”, and the guys’ mouths practically fell open.
    My “frame” has actually opened some guys’ eyes though. For example, most of my coworkers are blue pill all the way, and when we go to the bar they’re always drooling over the hot servers. But I bring them back down to earth by saying: “Stop drooling over the servers, you’re lowering your value. Look at the numbers, the servers are good looking, but they are inaccessible because they’re working. Look at the customers. They are one hundred percent men.” And some guys have epiphany moments when I say things like that. They go “Fuck you’re right”, and I say “If you want a good looking girl to take home tonight, then what the fuck are we doing in a bar that’s one hundred percent men, unless you wanna take a dude home?”. Sure, one guy went “Fuck you, what are you, a fucking accountant?”, but others, go “Shit, I’ve never even thought about it.”.
    You must hold frame, and not give a shit. If I’d let them tell me how to live, I’d be a debt ridden blue pill bitch boy, too.
    If it wasn’t for Roosh, and for ROK, I would not be banging younger girls. I’d still be a beta who would’ve probably married some chick my age or only a couple years younger, and have kids with her or something, gearing up for divorce rape, like my emasculated coworkers. My financial situation would be the same as it is now (if I was still single), but the other half, picking up girls in their early 20’s, is thanks to Roosh, and nobody else. I thank him and you, Quintus, you guys put in real work, work that genuinely helps men fight the human condition, and although I have phases where I’m sick of women and I’d rather put them in their place than bang them, I owe you guys a huge debt.

46. I am in my 50’s, single, Lord of all that I survey. Even the newish SJW’s fear me, as when I speak it is with authority on most issues, and I can do it in their language, which defeats them at every turn. The best part is that I am still dominant in my skills in my profession and this is my frame. Also having acquired wealth independent from the job is just the best thing in the world. When they know you are rich, they just don’t know how to eff you up, which they cant, so they just go away. I will leave only when I am ready to do so. Is my existence grotesque? I hope so.

47. When you’re 20, you care what everyone thinks about you.
    When you’re 40, you don’t care what anyone thinks about you.
    When you’re 60, you finally realize, nobody ever thought about you.

48. Kind of looking at it from another angle, it seems to me that women are slaves to the whole frame thing, and even mess up their lives by trying to appease other people’s frames. The it’s like their lives are spent seeking approval with others and trying to “keep up with the Joneses” at the same time.

49. Watching Trump right now. That is an older man that does not give a shit about any frame that anyone wants to push on him.
    The one thing I can say about getting older is to avoid getting into a rut. It’s OK to kick back, relax, and enjoy what you have worked for. I get that because it really does get tiring putting up with dumb shits, e.g., most of America.
    But, still, you don’t want to kick back for too long. This article is totally right. Keep trying new things. Keep getting out there. Don’t worry about your age, fucking forget about your age. Go for whatever your body can deliver.
    I say this because I am middle aged and have gotten stuck in some ruts. If you are not careful, a few months will turn into a few years. What I learned was that getting too embedded in a rut means its a lot of work to get out it. Most of the work is getting over your own mental rut, because the world is always out there waiting for you.
    Another thing I learned is to really fucking enjoy being alone. I like being at home alone. I’m happy to go out to dinner alone. I am happy to travel alone. When you do that, you are free to talk to anyone you want. And I recommend really stretching the boundaries in who you will talk to. Make friends with a very, very wide variety of people. You’ll be amazed by how interesting people are that might not have fit into your own frame initially.

    1. Great advice! I’m an extrovert but I do enjoy my alone time, it recharges by batteries.

50. The more successful you become, the more people will try to take cheap shot at you, try to take some of your piece, taunt you, mock you, make snide passive-aggressive remarks, try to distract you…. it’s a lonely road actually because very few will be successful like you. When you become the top, you will start to see things differently from average people and because of that, you won’t be able to relate to the masses on how they think. You will be in totally different spheres. People will wonder why you are “obsessed” with your entrepreneurial work and tell you to “relax, take a break for a while”. ..
    Even your own family may turn against you. They might not even approve of your new lifestyle. You will suddenly get bunch of calls from acquaintances asking you for advice and help and just want you to spoon feed them and hold their hands.
    Women in their thirties will call you creep because you decided to date younger, hotter girls who are better quality than a washed up thirty year old hag.

51. Here is my older guy wisdom. I have been married twice and have a young daughter.
    Really great women are merely the icing. (Every man needs to determine what defines a really great woman for him. I for example need a woman who isn’t addicted, is honest, is available emotionally and physically, can travel, has a good sense of humor and is okay with me leading. ) Really great women only make up less than 1% of the available women. Why would I want to waste my time with an average woman? This isn’t about finding the perfect woman. It’s about finding a woman who brightens your life, not make it a burden.
    Women can make life a little sweeter but a cake doesn’t need to have icing on top to taste great. No woman has the power to make a man’s life complete. A really wrong woman can be your life’s nightmare. If anything, a really great woman can only make my life beautiful and be an exciting sex partner. I have everything else covered, I don’t need her for anything else.

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