Why Beauty Is Not As Subjective As Feminists Insist

Roosh’s article 27 Attractive Girls Who Became Ugly Freaks Because Of Feminism has sparked a heated debate. One of the premises of Return Of Kings and neomasculinity is that female beauty is at least largely objective and a real biological phenomenon, linked to fertility. But many people, at least in public, regard beauty as being merely in the eyes of the beholder.

It is important to explore why this is not the case. Furthermore, it is important to have an open mind and realize that things may not always be black or white. Moreover, the outlook on male beauty can also be further addressed, at least to the extent to which it is linked to game and the notion that a man’s character reflect upon his appearance (at least in part).

Philosophical, cultural and biological dimensions have to be taken into account. Therefore I have used Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s article on beauty, the Italian semiologian Umberto Eco’s twin work History of Beauty (2004) and On Ugliness (2007), David Buss’ article, and Margaret F. Braun and Angela Bryan’s article as points of reference.

The history of beauty

As Eco asserts, “Beauty has never been absolute and immutable but has taken on different aspects depending on the historical period and the country.” There is always a cultural and historical context in which beauty is understood. The Greeks, at least some of them, regarded beauty and the good as closely intertwined, but Plato and Aristotle could not agree on what beauty exactly is.

However they both agreed that beauty, often in relationship to art but also including human appearance, is objective in that sense that it conforms more or less to natural proportions and symmetrical relationships. Throughout Western history, as Eco’s collection of pictures shows, there has been much geographical and cultural variation with regard to beauty. Since people are different, cultures may differ over time and space, and so will the notions on beauty.

What is striking, however, is that although historical variation is palpable and that cultural relativism and “postmodernist” subjectivism have influenced people’s ways of thinking, the objective proportions have remained or been reinvigorated within the frames of Western popular culture. As much as we might complain about for example Ariana Grande’s ethical and intellectual flaws, she indeed has a beautiful face and body.

With the rise of wellness culture, fashion and cosmetics it has never been easier for the naturally beautiful to optimize their potential (and to ruin the same by means of fast food and various anti-beauty measures). Popular culture capitalizes on evolutionary biology (and as paradoxical as it may seem also on people’s penchant for the gruesome).

Ugliness is the obvious opposite of beauty and has correspondingly changed throughout history, as Eco’s collection manifests. But even the hideous is objective in that sense that is often linked to death, disease or sometimes malign human behavior. Death and disease may signify twisted proportions. A good illustration of how beauty and ugliness can sometimes merge, are depictions of destructive female goddesses such as Lilith. A combination of opposites requires objective components.

Female fertility as a sign of beauty

David Buss mentions smooth skin, lustrous hair and full lips as manifestations of high female fertility potential. Does that mean that body composition is irrelevant and merely subjective? Overweight is indeed not an indicator of high level of health, and hides the facial and physical features of females. Partly it might be a particular cultural phenomenon rather than a universal characteristic, but in the West and the East slender-limbed bodies dominate both the past and the present.

Margaret F. Braun and Angela Bryan stress the significance of a healthy look:

Due to increased estrogen, healthy premenopausal women display a gynoid fat pattern, with more fat deposited on the lower body, including the hips, thighs, and buttocks. This gynoid pattern is considered a characteristically healthy, feminine body shape (Singh, 1994). Singh found that body shapes could be accurately differentiated by calculating a waist-to-hip ratio. A smaller ratio results in a more curvaceous, hourglass figure (Markey, Tinsley, Ericksen, Ozer, & Markey, 2002; Singh, 1993a, 1994). It is believed that to increase their own inclusive fitness, men have evolved mechanisms that allow the detection of reproductive health in women (…) In a series of studies, male participants consistently rated line drawings of female figures that represented a normal weight and a healthy waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 as most physically attractive (Singh, 1993a, 1993b, 1994; Singh & Suwardi, 1995). These findings have been successfully replicated by several researchers (Furnham et al., 2002; Henss, 2000; Markey et al., 2002) and do not seem to be significantly affected by ethnicity, gender, or age (Singh & Suwardi, 1995; Markey et al., 2002).

Perhaps it is only in certain settings, such as when women show their legs on the catwalk, that the really thin is considered prettier than a somewhat higher body weight. The last picture below, as it seem to me, gives a clear hint of a quite optimal height/weight ratio.

Male beauty as a manifestation of character

As Eco notes, Karl Marx asserted that money can compensate for ugliness. That is partly true even now, at least in developing countries, but male beauty has become more important in more equal societies. Male beauty optimization can likewise be accomplished with the help from physical exercise, dieting and grooming.

Also for males there are cultural overlaps as well differences. For instance, in East Asia males look more or less feminine compared to other racial groups, and that is what females in those regions have to work with, so to speak. Margaret F. Braun and Angela Bryan point to the relative importance of a generically masculine physique:

There are specific reproductively relevant physical characteristics that ought to influence women’s evaluations of male attractiveness. First, both sexes (not just men) ought to value high genetic quality, and an individual’s physical attractiveness is considered to be an honest advertisement of their reproductive capabilities and gene quality (Buss, 1989; Buss, Shackelford, Kirkpatrick, & Larsen, 2001). Second, there is some evidence that women focus on male physical cues as well as traits indicative of dominance and ability to provide. For example, women prefer taller men (e.g., Ellis, 1992) and value ‘attractiveness’ in self-report contexts (e.g., Buss, 1989). Third, women report finding physically symmetric men more attractive and in fact symmetric men tend to have higher numbers of female sexual partners (e.g., Little, Burt, Penton-Voak, & Perrett, 2001; Gangestad & Thornhill, 2003).

Money, social status and personality can sometimes compensate for a lack of physical resources but there is no reason to look in a way that signals low character. Even though this does not include the typical ROK reader, American males are actually more obese than females. Most men will not look like the guy above even after all the proper measures, but still do your best. To call someone a fag for being prettier is a defense mechanism, akin to how fat feminists respond to the harsh truth of their own shortcomings.


Given the above description there clearly exist various objective standards with regard to beauty for both sexes. Some are culturally and some are biologically conditioned (and the biological is linked to the cultural rather than being complete opposites). We have not yet answered the question to which extent that media indoctrinates people into thinking that beauty is more objective and universal than it actually is, but there is obviously a cultural and psychological dimension involved.

Humans obviously have a variety of different tastes with regard to height, weight, hair color, skin tone and facial features, but things such as facial symmetry and hourglass figures are objective measures of beauty that transcend cultural programming—this cannot be argued, but our politically correct overlords continue to deny this point to fit their goal of oppressive cultural Marxism. We must continue to point out their lies and fight to preserve what is truly beautiful in the world.

Read More: The Pursuit Of Truth, Goodness, And Beauty

438 thoughts on “Why Beauty Is Not As Subjective As Feminists Insist”

  1. I would say modern beauty is not linked to fertility.
    Most men desire slim women, and they are often the least fertile.
    Many slim women don’t even have periods.
    Same for men, those who work out excessively tend to be impotent.
    Now if you’re talking classical beauty ….. ala Reubens (circa 1600 chubby girls), that was linked to fertility, but we’ve all moved on since then. The story above uses modern images of classical beauty, if you actually take the time to look for the classical versions …. all fat girls by our standards.
    Genghis Khan, most fertile guy in the history of man ….. short, fat and balding.
    I would say the modern male ideas of beauty in a women are childlike helplessness.
    PS. I’m calling fag on the ripped guy.

    1. Of course my friend, cholesterol and fat increase the quality of the ovulation.(pjclarck1 circa 2000 chubby fertile girls)

      1. Starving women can’t reproduce, weight and fertility have always been linked in historical imagery. Not my fault if you’re stupid and can’t do a simple google search.
        Male sexual ability and suitability for breeding was always linked to their ability to kill. And I ain’t talking about pressing a button.

        1. A “simple google search” on any subject these days leads to only one result: propaganda.
          The period of time in human history that you are talking about in which the Reuben size woman was idealized is relatively small. There are very few periods in human history before last few hundred years where anyone even reached what would be considered obese today. There were just never the resources — or the sugary and high carb foods — in the past to have larger women (or men) as the norm.
          Stocky? Maybe. Plump? Occasionally, But Reuben fat? No. There was a very small period of time in a relatively small area of the world when and where that was pushed as an idea, and it wasn’t even universally considered an ideal then.
          You will argue by pointing to a handful of ancient carvings of fat chicks that are alleged to be ideals of fertility. But consider that it was historians hundreds or thousands of years later who were interpreting what these carvings represented, without a lot of hard evidence. More importantly, its much more logical to assume the “fertility goddess” carvings were carved not to show -fat- women but to show -pregnant- women. They were big because they were pregnant, not because there were a bunch of 300 lb cave women running around popping out kids.
          Obese women have just as much difficulty in pregnancy as starving women, but that is something we aren’t supposed to discuss.

        2. Male sexual ability and suitability for breeding was always linked to their ability to FUCK. Stop reading manga shit my friend, killin people with your katana won’t help you to fuck.

      2. higher cholesterol is good for your sex hormones, yet they want you to have your levels at 175 or lower….hmmm

        1. The cholesterol scam has been proven to be just that (a scam). I guess “they” just messed up earlier, when they were insisting that we should all have low cholesterol…cough, cough.

        2. a doctor named Wallach says you want your chol around 350- he considered that healthy. He eats 8-10 runny scrambled eggs aday, no sugar, no carbs

        3. I eat the same number of eggs the same way, every day…it’s a great testosterone source.

        4. I do the same. 8 hard boiled eggs every single morning

        5. fry em in butter, he says frying in oil(other than coconut) is bad for you, only use oil cold, drizzle on salads

        6. This dr says you should have them soft-boiled, you dont get the benefits of the yolk when its hard and dry

        7. this is good, but not as convenient as hard boiled which I can toss in Tupperware and carry to work

        8. if the doctor wants to come to work and soft boil them for me I will gladly eat them that way. For me the yolk runnier the better. But I do have other things to consider M-F. On the weekends I go sunny side up.

        9. Remember the margarine craze?? Those fucks told us margarine is better and of course it isn’t .. Butter is fine come to find out…

        10. yeah, that was hilarious. Anyone with half a brain knew that that was a stupid idea. Might as well just liquefy up some tumor and fry shit in it.

        11. frying eggs in coconut oil sounds absolutely disgusting.
          If you ever get hemorrhoids, coconut oil works wonders

        12. actually coconut oil makes a decent fry source. I also like ghee. But for frying eggs, nothing beats the classic…eggs and butter are just a perfect match.

        13. for what- chicken? I cant imagine throwing a burger or a pork chop in coconut oil

        14. That’s what I do – butter. Eight to 12 per day. I tried coconut oil once (heard it was good for you), made my guts hurt. But I’m sure some people don’t suffer that side-effect. A good rule of thumb is, if a doctor says it’s good for you, it probably isn’t…

        15. You can pan fry some chicken in coconut oil for sure.

        16. I am not doing 20 “egg” based puns. That is egg-zactly what I don’t need this morning. D’OH

        17. yeah, when you heat oil, its does something bad to it- oxidation? doesnt happen with butter, google it if you want.
          everything they tell us is wrong

        18. Most oils are vegetable oil, vegetable fats arent complete fats plus theyre rancid, ie theyve gone off, as they oxidise rapidly mainly because theyre chemically isolated & stripped of their natural vitamins …
          Animal fats have vitamin & because theyre complete fats, stay fresh far longer then isolated chemically processed vegetable oils …
          The only exceptions are probably oilive oil or wheat germ oil & coconut oil, but i wouldnt cook with them except for coconut oil
          The best animal fat to cook with is organic ghee, butter is too thin & not as rich as ghee …

        19. I wouldn’t go nuts with the heat factor. I use just enough to melt the butter (or coconut oil) and add whatever’s being cooked in that pan. Increase the heat for a little while, then reduce.

        20. Seriously. It’s like natures gift. Simple and perfect. I’m about to make 8 of them now. Love weekends

    2. Agreed on the ripped guy. In fact this simple test is 100% accurate: Any man more attractive than me is a faeg.

        1. His first vicitim was his brother even before becoming a teen IIRC. Should have strung up the little rug right there, but his mother being a single mom….

        2. Ah. Been awhile since I read his background, but I never thought much of the guy.

      1. We should also fill Western Europe with monuments of Alexander the Great, Scipio Africanus & Jan Zizka.

    3. Nobody has ever liked the fat Reubens broads, except a very small clique of very rich nobility and royalty, you know, the ones who paid for those paintings. Your average serf had normal thin women and he liked it that way. Note that once royalty and nobility stopped financing art, that the “ideal” form became what it always has been again, since the common man was painting for himself more than to fulfill some freaky fat fetish that a few blue bloods had.
      Genghis Khan reproduced by rape, not by seduction, so using him as an example makes zero sense, in fact, it rather confirms that this kind of guy (fat and bald) basically has the options of “force” or “nothing”.
      Classical versions of beauty were, by and large, not “fat by our standards”, where you get that outside of Reubens I’m not entirely certain.
      As to slim women, there’s thin and healthy, and then there’s anorexic/bulimic. Normal slim and healthy don’t lose their periods normally, and are as fertile as any other woman.
      Agreed, ripped guy is probably a pole smoker.

    1. I was once leaving my place with a girl in tow and stopped at my front door and said “hold on, forgot my wallet” then smiled and said “and ya know, it’s really the most important thing about me”

      1. I’m sure that eased her mind, as she immediately felt less inclined to pretend otherwise.
        It works like this, as you well know, in terms of a woman’s true desires when it comes to a man, and how a woman ranks attributes –
        1) Money. (Nothing else comes close; nothing else compares in a woman’s mind.)
        2) Cock size/sexual prowess. (This is a distant second; however, if a woman is out on the prowl for sex, it can trump money in the short term. In which case, she’ll give the guy with money her phone number for the shot at a long-term score, while fucking the guy with the big dick as a one-off.)
        3) Musculature/strong body. (A distant third here; but important in their minds, as it’s related to sexual stamina and prowess; it’s far more important to a woman than a guy’s face, or whether or not he’s bald.)
        4) All of the things women CLAIM they want the most – sense of humor, good listener, cute guy, etc. (Far removed from the first three, this one includes all of the pre-scripted lies that they use, in order to make it appear they aren’t mercenary gold-diggers and cock-mongers.)

        1. the attribute list is right but it changes I have noticed. For instance, a girl who is banging chad thundercock, frat student will gladly jump on money man in a heart beat. But trophy wife will run to cock size/good in bed or musculature in a heart beat. a lot has to do with the fickle nature of women wanting whatever it is they don’t have. I have always told guys that if they want to fuck a woman with a boyfriend/husband just figure HIM our rather than her and then act totally opposite.

        2. Noted. Very interesting about “being the other guy”. I know that I’m barking up the right tree and I’m a few minutes away from paydirt when a woman starts telling me what was wrong with her last boyfriend/husband. That’s the same as telling a guy, “Hey, my vagina is open, come and get it.”
          So it makes sense that if you simply “be the other guy”, you’ll appear to be a satisfactory replacement in the short term (or long term). Excellent psychology there, but then, not to denigrate your tactics (which I’m not), we are dealing with childlike minds…show them whatever it is that they want to see at any given moment, and you’re pretty much guaranteed to be banging their heads off the headboard at the local Ramada…

        3. “You’re the type of guy that can’t control your girl
          You try to buy her love with diamonds and pearls
          I’m the type of guy that shows up on the scene
          And gets the seven digits, you know the routine..”
          LL Cool J, 1989
          That track got played a lot in the barracks.

        4. correctamundo. I am not generally a fan of show them what they want to see in my personal life, I would rather just target women who want to see what I am….but I have a very large pool of women I am playing with.

        5. funny, I just said to some friends this morning….no matter how much they are taught not to think this way, every woman wants one thing….to be slung over a shoulder, dragged to a cave and brutally raped. Let them feel this in a confine that their modern brain will allow as acceptable and there are no amount of diamonds in the world that will drag them away from you

        6. I used to hate that song back back when I was a totally awesome 14 year old who believed no woman would go with a guy like that. I even thought up opposing lyrics to the singer…
          “I’m the kind of guy that packs a .44.
          I can blow you through the window or blow you out the door.”

        7. “Mercenary gold-diggers & cock-mongers”
          Does that include the conservative christian housewives as well?

        8. They love it, but even that is too complicated. Just being brutally raped by someone who it is socially acceptable to be brutally raped by.

        9. I am the same way. I already have frame which I don’t even have to think about, or fake, because it’s a part of me. And I don’t chase women, I let them come to me. They’re all the same, pretty much, so why chase them. When a woman starts telling you what she didn’t like about her ex, what she’s really telling you is, “I am using this as a means of telling you that I want you to fuck me…I hope you are all of the things I’m telling you my ex wasn’t, but it doesn’t really matter if you aren’t, let’s fuck and we’ll see how it goes.”

        10. I had a girlfriend that I would occasionally buy clothes for the specific purpose of ripping them off. They love that shit.

        11. all the 30 and under ladies in my office were reading that book…

        12. Social engineering.
          Step 1) Turn ’em into sluts.
          Step 2) Turn ’em into sluts who like brutal sex.
          Step 3) Have to wait and see.

        13. it was insane- I saw that book everywhere- Central Park, Bryant Park, the bartenders and waitresses at my hangoout in the city and in the outer boroughs…I could not escape it. I asked my bartender if I could read it, and it was sooooo lame

        14. “I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters, all the same. They love being dominated.”
          Oscar Wilde

        15. This proves that women are exactly like children. When Harry Potter books came out, all the kids read them, they all had to have the latest Harry Potter book. With women, it’s “50 Shades of Gay”…women/children. Malleable as hell.

        16. I play it a lot now. My girl says he’s a douche. I say “yeah but I’m the type of guy…”

        17. I just finished re reading The Picture of Dorian Gray, it comes from that book.

        18. I googled and see it. You know, I read that book so many years ago. I use the concept of it all the time….it kind of fits my life ya know…but I haven’t actually looked at it in forever. Getting downloaded right now.

        19. Yeah, I know. That’s one of the morally reproachable aspects about him, but his understanding of female nature is pure gold.

        20. 2.5) Social cred/Fame. If you are perceived as valuable in the surrounding social context.

        21. I don’t know. Ill wiki later. However, a persons sexual proclivities do not, in my opinion, changed the merits of their work. Some people are simply slaves to certain baser instincts and this, in no way, in my opinion, discounts what they have done professionally.

        22. We might have to do a questionnaire on this one so we can get actual numbers but there are some interesting variables at play here, no doubt. Like…”Do my girlfriends want him?”, etc. And the one you mentioned. And others. But the top two are etched in stone. Money and dick.

        23. I particulary like the line:
          “you’re the type of guy who gives her money to shop
          she bought me a sweater– ha– thanks a lot.”

        24. 100%. I will have that bitch waxing her twat again in 15 minutes. My only issue is access.

        25. The women were reading Harry Potter too. And offended when I told them it was a children’s book.

        26. People utterly hated LL after that track. Anti-LL diss tracks were popping up all over the place… I think that’s partly what influenced his later soppy romantic music.

        27. trying being a fit corporate exec who wears suits to work on the train every day when one of those books or movies comes out. It is positively fucking dangerous. If you listen closely a train car full of woman sounds a lot like putting a wooden spoon in a big bowl of ziti and stirring it.

        28. I wondered if anybody was going to catch that…they were indeed. Which proves my point even more.

        29. Poor or middle class dudes with good Game regularly get women of good “bang” quality. Money is only the most important thing to girls who are “professionals”, all the rest it’s a negotiable item. My friend from Louisiana rarely has more than two dimes to rub together, but has this really hot wife and has girls queued up that most men think are “unobtainable”, based entirely on his personality and ability to sexualize a conversation with a girl by the word “Hello” and get her laughing and twisting her hair two words later. I’ve seen guys like this many times in my life, and I’m certain most here have. The “Money is the number one thing” is really not something I’ve seen validated too much in real life, although yes you’ll get your gold diggers here and there no question.
          Clarks addition of Social Cred is spot on, the more people “know you” and make a fuss about you showing up, the more girl’s attention perks up. I’ve always used this to great effect.

        30. I have known a couple of “adult” women who read Harry Potter. One chick outright said she was “like completely obsessed with Harry Potter.” Heh children. I barely meet women who are interested in non-fiction.
          I remember when the book, “the secret” came out, probably around 2007. It became pretty popular with the ladies. According to this book, “you are a satellite and you need to send your messages to the universe and the universe will answer your prayers.” Before I knew it, I started hearing women on multiple accounts preaching to their friends, “send your message to the universe… you are a satellite….” I think this is their idea of non-fiction reading. One day I found the book laying around at work. I just had to read the first few pages. It made me laugh. “You need to be specific with your requests, the universe has so much energy and you just need to tell the universe what you want and you will get it.” God I can’t be the only one who’s heard this crap. Haha.

        31. Its true – when I was dating the Girl I took her to a bar where I happened to know the door guy. He got us a table, no cover, nice welcome..
          I thought nothing of it, but years and years later she still says that scene in Goodfellas (where Henry sweeps his date into the Copa, around the line, through the kitchen, to a front row table, glad-handing all the way) reminds her of me at that time.
          They eat that shit up….

        32. You don’t ‘turn’ into a fag, either you are a fag or you are not; it is not a rational decision. Wilde has a lot of mental issues (that’s why he was a fag), but his clarity of mind in this specific subject is astonishing (and he’s a very good writer in general, despite the homoerotic themes).
          Now, if you understand the nature of women you are more able to interact with them and have success in 1) getting laid, 2) avoid negative emotional attachments and 3) avoid getting hurt physically, emotionally and economically because of number 2. Ironically, fags have better understanding of the female nature than most of us (maybe because they think a little like them?), but they are incapable of using it.

        33. Very true. Glad to read this.
          There are definetly many golddiggers out there, no questions. (See: Dan Bilzerian)
          But most girls don’t really care for it. I’m not bragging here, but I regularly sleep with 7’s 8’s,9’s and sometimes even 10’s. And I drive a damn Volkswagen Golf 4th Gen. with 75HP. (Currently investing in other things)
          And never did I get a rejection because of that.
          This whole “money is everything” sounds a bit too much like beta-male-reasoning to me. Like, “it is out of my power, there’s nothing I can do, to get hot girls, they just love money, and I’m not born rich, so it is fine that I just bang 5’s and 6’s once a year bro.”

        34. Yep. Girls won’t cheat on their beta boyfriends with another beta. They already have a provider-bf, and they would feel “bad” or remorseful if they did.
          But if an Alpha shows up, it is something different, of course. 😉

        35. I don’t know, there is a strong correlation between guys who are molested as a kid and grow up to be fags. It isn’t all just genetics.

        36. I think being molested will make you a pervert and likely a predator, but I think being a chocolate-prospector is likely a brain glitch – like being left handed or red-haired.

        37. I have seen them cheat on alphas with betas but mostly to make the alpha jealous. They just never double down on what they already have.

        38. IIt’s a brain glitch brought on by their activity.
          Romans 1:27-28
          27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

        39. Funny thing is, if that guy is actually an Alpha, he won’t give a single fuck and dump her ass real quick. Abundance is key.

        40. I think, and science supported me (before it was politicized by YKW) that fags are mentally ill persons. Mental illness could be inherited (as in schizophrenia) or caused by the environment( as in child molestation and fags). However, even when there is a strong correlation between men molested as a child and grow up to be fags, that’s not always the case

        41. correct. Or if they aren’t dating, as has happened with me, he will tell her to enjoy. The drunk dial is coming….don’t you worry.

        42. I think it boils down to perversion. Once you start down that road one thing leads to another and before you know it you’re packing fudge and getting upset that people would dare say your faggery is abnormal.

        43. The limbic system in their brain will not let them cast aside their primal biological urges no matter what they believe.

        44. there was a girl not too long ago who was making a whole production of things. I knew she wanted to fuck but was talking herself into it. She was bla bla bla about this and about that. I eventually told her “X listen, I am a simple guy. I like rare red meat, straight whisky, fighting and fucking….I really can’t do 15 rounds of your mental gymnastics” she was in my bed that night.

        45. That’s sure. Also after months and even years she will think about him non-stop.
          Even if it has been about 8-10 years, she married a beta, has kids with him. That alpha guy could just confront her again and she would fuck him faster, than her beta’s premature ejaculation.

        46. no such thing as a lesbian. Just women who haven’t been properly dicked down. If she is a lesbian I will have her begging for cock in 20 minutes if you could just get her in a room with me.

        47. One of my favorite stories is the time I ran into an old number who had moved on, got herself married and blah blah blah. We had coffee after a random run in. She told me, quite coquettishly, that her dog was named after me.

        48. Based on being in both positions at one time or another in my life, I have to disagree with you. When I was a young man, I was the funny/smart guy with the good looks. My friends hated me because I got all the best-looking women chasing after me. Then I hit it pretty big about age 29 with a business. Suddenly, magically, I was even more attractive. Then I took a dip in a financial sense for a few years. Suddenly, I was older, not as physically attractive, and I couldn’t pull women as easily as I did when I was younger.
          Now I’m flat-out old. But I’m flush as hell. I can pull higher quality women, and a higher volume of women now, than I could when I was pulling them based on game and looks. And my friends hate me even more now, because of that fact. Heh.
          The women who pretend they aren’t interested in money, are interested in it all the same. I’m sure there are still men out there who pull women for sex; hot women, extremely hot women, based solely on game, sense of humor, looks, alpha frame, etc., because I used to do it that way, too. And I see that kind of guy frequently. It’s an art and a science, and I admire it.
          But give the women that those men are currently with, a legitimate shot at a man with a lot of financial resources and success, a man whose overall frame screams “I’m in the top 0.1%”, and I don’t care who they are with, they will want to be with that guy. The deal at that point is, the guy in the top 0.1% won’t want that sort of woman, usually, and they know it, so they don’t get their hopes up. A guy like that won’t want to be with a hot woman with kids, for example, or a hot woman who’s older and has a history of numerous partners, or a hot woman who is married – doesn’t matter how good-looking the women are. That has nothing to do with it, to a guy in the top 0.1%, because he can have boatloads of hot women.
          There aren’t a lot of guys with complete financial frame. Money beats everything. But the only guys who know that for sure are guys who have been in both camps. I used to think money was bullshit, because I pulled all the hot girls anyway. Now I realize that it trumps everything. And not only does it trump everything, it will make you realize how shallow and money-oriented women really are, if you take it to the extreme.
          For example, every once in a while I will try an experiment. I’ll just be myself, and be around certain women as a course of my social habits, and I won’t tell them what I do, or how successful I am. The hottest ones will sometimes be absolutely unimpressed with me, to the point of ignoring me – we’re talking about women in bars/restaurants, and places I frequent, primarily: waitresses, bartenders, strippers, female bar customers. When this happens, and one of them ignores me, I will sometimes do this experiment, after we have been around each other for a while. I will casually ask them if they know what I do, and they will say “No”, because they could care less. Then I’ll pull up my LinkedIn page, and I’ll show it to them. They instantly go from “I could care less”, to “I want to fuck you right now.”
          It’s that simple. Women are inveterate liars and there are only so many guys with unlimited financial resources and a history of achieving success after success, in a wide array of fields, to go around. Thus, most women have to settle for lesser animals. And they aren’t going to fuck up their chances with the guys in their talent pool by telling them the truth, meaning, fuck yes, they want that guy with lots of money and a bunch of success. Same as they wouldn’t tell those guys they prefer a man with a big dick; once again, there aren’t that many guys with big dicks out there, and if they tell the truth, their pool of suitors will dry up because a guy with a smaller dick won’t want to be with a girl who wants larger dicks; it’s exactly the same when it comes to bankrolls – size definitely matters to them.
          Women will indeed gravitate toward the accomplished man with unlimited resources, and jump into his boat in a heartbeat, if given the opportunity. I know it, because I’ve been in both camps, and I also know it because of that little test I pull with them. Not a single woman who I have pulled up my LinkedIn page for, has done anything but jump at me like a crazed nymphomaniac. Married, single, living with a guy – it doesn’t matter.
          So I disagree. As I said, the only guys who don’t know this for sure are the guys who have not had significant financial/professional success. And there are a lot of those out there – a fuck-ton, in fact.
          This is just another example of a man’s opinion being based solely on his position on the face of a mountain. If he’s only climbed so high, what he sees is what he sees. The limit of his field of vision is all he knows.
          If he climbs up to that region I talked about, he will quickly find out how money-centric women really are. It won’t be pretty, but it will be a mind-bending red pill that will correct his near-sighted vision regarding the matter, on a permanent basis.

        49. When I worked in Dublin and noticed a woman hanging around doing the same, I used to use the line, “Get your coat. You pulled.” She either followed you out or didn’t, but it at least cut to the chase.

        50. Yeah, that’s called the “stalking horse” strategy I believe.

        51. As sure as the sun rises, this is true.
          A guy I know is an average schlub. A nice guy generally speaking, but not big into self improvement (I’m saying here that he’s chubby-ish), shaves once every four days whether he needs it or not, and works a menial blue collar job. That’s fine, he’s happy and if he’s happy then I’m sure as hell not going to judge. He has a girlfriend who is actually *somewhat* attractive in the sense that she’s about a 6 which, for him, is about as much as he could ever hope to achieve unless he starts hitting the gym and such.
          So good for him, right? The moment he leaves the room though her eyes wander over to me or one of the other “alphas” in the place (only about three of us there max on any given night). I’ve caught her several times just raping me with her eyes when she thought that I wasn’t paying attention, and the same with the other two guys, and she always manages to find a way to be around or nearby one of us while boyo is out smoking (or whatever), chatting a mile a minute and ensuring that he rather ample bosom is on full display and is firmly at attention. She’s shameless. I feel bad for the guy, because again, he’s a decent human being.

        52. It’s so funny how all this shit that I’ve known since high school has names and shit. I really missed this boat

        53. I honestly think that your case is situational. You’re in Las Vegas, where the market is utterly fucked up compared to the average in the nation. I say the same thing about places like Miami and NYC and probably LA. Also keep in mind that you’re older and likely traditionally masculine too, which these days seems to be a pretty good attractant in our Low T Beta Boy Hipster society.

        54. Money only matters if you plan to keep a girl long term. Guys that put money number one on woman’s list of turn-ons seem inexperienced and a bit naive. Women know that most men with money are usually weaker and (I hate using the alpha/beta talk but) more beta simply because his life is easier. They love men that work with their hands and do real man labor like construction, auto mechanics, chefs, etc. Dominance and confidence trump all other qualities in a man. You’ll know a guy is a real “alpha” when women are spending their money on him.

        55. Stalking Horse has been a phrase for a long, long time in regards to the term, it’s not a manosphere word.

        56. And relationship with their father! Focus on the Family says that is important….and their is a correlation to be sure!

        57. I see your point. But how I described women is how they are. They’ll jump in a minute to a guy with exceptional financial frame. Doesn’t matter who they’re with. I wish this weren’t so, but it is. That “good woman with a good heart who just loves her man for who he is and wants nothing else” is straight out of a Hollyweird movie. And we know how Hollyweird operates…heh.

        58. I agree with this 90%, but only because nothing is universally true for every girl in every situation at every time. The hamster effect means you can never be 100% sure of anything when it comes to chicks. They will act against their own best interests, sabotage themselves, go against everything they know to be right and true… all on just some random whim.
          A girl can be with a rich, well-hung, ripped, funny, solid guy, and some busted-out short dude with a dad bod who accidently stumbles on her with the right line at the right time will get her tingles going, and boom, everything else is out the window, and she’s blowing him in the back of his Camry in the parking lot.

        59. Women are extremely susceptible to whatever the hocus-pocus-of-the-week may be… books, movies, you name it. There’s a reason they are the most coveted consumer group. When I used to work in an office, women would all cackle on about the new fad diet, exercise program, etc. They would sit in their cubicles complaining out loud to each other about how they need to shed those extra couple pounds so they can get ready for summer and have their “beach body” back, then minutes later inhale a couple donuts or cookies from the kitchen. Zero self control whatsoever.

        60. What doesn’t get talked about in the manosphere is women’s dependence on men and how that dependence influences their view of men. I remember when I first came to ROK there was a guy who’s handle was “anti feminist” or something similar and he would always say that there can’t be real love between two humans if one is dependent on the other. The dependent person will always view the other person as a utility and will judge that person by their ability to meet their needs. It is a parasite/host relationship not a loving, reciprocal union. Many of us here known that women see us as social/financial/sexual utility but we still old out hope that somewhere inside them they appreciate us for more than what we can do for them. Sadly, we are reminded time and time again that their “love” is opportunistic and parisitic so it makes perfect sense that women would light up at the sound of financial success. Single older women are treading water in the middle of the ocean waiting for a ship to come rescue them. Not just any ship, but a luxury cruise liner or expensive yacht with a helicopter pad.

        61. Wow maybe it’s just me being clueless. I guess I never looked into it

        62. My country charm good friend would pull any woman out of any rich man’s grasp in a fast minute, as would most of my other alpha friends (and, frankly, so could I). Another one of my friend goes from one super hot chick to the next with regularity and he doesn’t even try, and he installs windows for a living. Chicks line up to suck his cock though (in that, they keep tabs on when he becomes “single”). This, I know for a fact.
          Now all things being equal except wealth, sure, a chick my choose the rich charming cowboy over the not so rich charming cowboy, or she may not, but it certainly can be a factor, sure. But if “women will jump on wealth” as the primary attractant regardless of other factors, then we wouldn’t know the name Eliot Rogers.
          I *have* seen women cynically use men for money of course, we all have, no question. I’ve seen guys lay out cash for boob jobs to snotty unappreciative women who are only fucking them for the money. That does exist. But for all women? Nah man, sorry, I pulled hot quality tail when I was an E-3 in the Army, and believe it or not, an E-3 in the Army in 1986 wasn’t what we’d call rich, and most of my friends at the time did too.

        63. 80+% of homosexuals are abused as children — either sexually, emotionally or physically.
          Boys raised by single mothers have an estimated 60% greater chance of becoming homosexual.
          About 80% of sexually abused children grow up to be abusers in some form — often without the conscious memory of doing it (kind of a split personality phenomenon).
          A wide variety of chemicals (consumed by pregnant women or by young children) are now being linked to sexuality issues due to their effects on hormones.
          My contention: less than 5% of homosexual behavior is linked to genetics.
          On the other hand, the notion that most homosexuals “choose” that lifestyle because they perceive it as cool is also false. A small percentage of loners / losers might, but the vast majority are compelled to due to factors outside of their control, such as childhood abuse or unknowingly consuming chemicals in food and drinks.

        64. Also very true!
          “You’ll know a guy is a real “alpha” when women are spending their money on him.”
          Boy it’s time to become a gigolo! (joke, I know what you mean)

        65. It’s just a given. That’s how they are. Trying to get them to be something else is like trying to get a scorpion to stop stinging and wax your car. Not gonna happen. The only women who don’t play the hypergamy card to the extreme and go after super-wealthy guys, are the wall-hitters. They”d love to play it but they are outgunned by younger, more attractive women who are childless. They know they have no shot so they cling to the “I want a guy with a good sense of humor” bullshit.

        66. That’s so true. When I say “All women”, I don’t mean every single woman who was ever born. But I’d stick with 99.9% and I wouldn’t be far off. If you think of them as disposable pleasures who are easily replaced, your life will be easier. They’re all nuts; if they ever make female robots that are close to the real thing, I’m down. Put ’em in the closet when done, and it’s all good…

        67. “I can’t remember the last time I had a doughnut!”
          “Saw you eat one ten minutes ago…”

        68. I wish more women were readers of Stephen Ambrose, or the very least Tom Clancy.

        69. “My country charm good friend would pull any woman out of any rich man’s grasp in a fast minute, as would most of my other alpha friends (and, frankly, so could I).”
          So…here we are playing with absolutes again. I claimed that all women are into rich guys. You claimed that most of your alpha friends (and yourself as well) could pull any woman out of any rich man’s grasp in a fast minute. Any rich man’s grasp?
          I don’t know what kind of crack you are smokin’ but it must be good and I want some, dude. I would like to place a wager on that one. “Any rich man’s grasp”…ch-ching.
          As far as my comment about “all women” goes, well, I guess I should qualify my posts more often, instead of generalizing, which I tend to do sometimes, so in this case, “99.9%”.
          But…NAWALT. You’re right, NAWALT.
          That being said, the notion that an alpha with very little financial security (i.e., a window installer), can outpull an alpha with large levels of wealth, success and talent is just a little off-base, I’m thinkin’.
          If an alpha male is top 0.1% in terms of wealth, talent, intelligence, positive genetic traits (breeding traits) and success levels, he’s going to be extremely picky about who he considers for even a short-term “girlfriend” who will merely be a satellite orbiter in his rotation.
          But the idea that the alpha window installer (how a window installer can be an alpha is beyond me; I guess it depends on a man’s position on the Mountain of Perspective once again), the idea that the alpha window installer could outpull the alpha rich guy is hilarious.
          The rich alpha might let the window installer pull her for an hour or two, because she’s in his rotation and he doesn’t give a fuck. But when the rich guy tells her to get her ass over to his place, she’s gonna jump. Because she knows if she doesn’t she lost a shot at the brass ring (she’s lost a chance at one in a thousand men).
          The only thing she loses if the window installer dumps her is a chance at some discount weather stripping…
          I mean, seriously…you really believe what you wrote there? Nah. You’re being sarcastically satirical. You devil you…

        70. The only women who don’t play the hypergamy card to the extreme and go after super-wealthy guys, are the wall-hitters.

          I know way too many exceptions just going over a list in my head in less than 20 seconds for this to be a truism. I’m honestly not sure how you’ve come to this conclusion Bob. Women who can do *way* better from the straight hard coded “I can nab me a billionaire” mindset generally don’t go after the billionaire. They don’t have to “settle” in the least. If what you are saying was a truism with 99.9% of women then we wouldn’t reproduce as a species, except for a handful of millionaires (and richer). My high school 9.5 girlfriend I’ve talked about before wouldn’t have “settled” on a guy who is a manager in a factory. My wife wouldn’t have “settled” with me. My Louisiana buddy wouldn’t have the hot wife he has (nor the string of girlfriends on the side who are all smoke shows). I’m just not seeing this play out in real life Bob.
          Women will generally go with whatever gives her the most excitement/fun/tingles, and it can be anything or any combination of things we talk about on this site. Money is good, it sure doesn’t hurt, but I’ve never needed to flash a wad of cash at or in front of an HB8+ to get her sucking my cock, nor have a whole mess of other guys had to do this. If it were the default “turn on” then it seems like we’d see it more often in real life and not see so many exceptions.

        71. Milo Y said he wouldnt be surprised if 50% of gay men were molested as kids, he himself admitted was a victim as well

        72. I’ve watched this guy go through a stream of women. He’s super charming, has bad boy biker cred, is well known and liked by “everybody” and, having been to Sturgis with him a few times now, always seems to have some of the nicest back seat covers I’ve seen a guy pull.
          How a window installer can be alpha? Are you serious Bob? You know bikers as well as I do. We come with the default reputation of alpha right out of the box (although of course this isn’t always true, but people assume it until proven otherwise). Plus, he just handles his shit like a boss, is extremely confident, tall, good looking, laid back and, well, has enormous social proof. If cash was the only measure of alpha, then Bill Gates is Alpha Prime and can pull more tail than Johnny Depp or the 35 year old Brad Pitt by definition. But…have you seen his wife? Or the horror show wife of Zuckerberg?

        73. I get all of that, but the notion that you and some of your alpha buddies could pull any rich guy’s girl away from him…well, like I said, I’d put money on that one. And I couldn’t lose. Because there are plenty of rich men whose women wouldn’t risk it – let alone give the guys in question a sideways glance. Gisele Bündchen. Tom Brady’s wife. I’m going to win that bet. (The point being, as you like to point out with me, and which is absolutely true, there are no absolutes…)
          I’ll change my mind in a millisecond if you and your crew can pull Gisele Bündchen from Tom Brady. Otherwise, I’m going to stick with my perspective.
          But I would definitely enjoy losing that bet. It would rank up here with Jesus walking on water if you actually pulled it off, in terms of overall awesomeness.

        74. You’d lose your bet actually.
          Tom Brady has celebrity, is handsome, has social proof out the wazoo and is athletic. It’s not just the cash. The proof in the pudding would be *any* rich guy’s broad, not the rich guy who has everything that I or my buddy have PLUS a billion on the side, because you’ve made your case here that it’s ONLY money that primarily drives women’s attraction (or whatever, gets men laid, or however you want to frame it), and that 99.9% of women will exercise their looks to get the richest guy possible regardless of any other factor he has or doesn’t have going on for him. If that’s the case, then the gold digger that hooks up with fat, balding billionaire dude is mine in a quick minute, not even a contest.
          I can tell you flat out that I could pull ugly chink whore off of Zuckerberg’s arm when he flies out of state and I meet her on the street (or wherever). Not that I’d want to, a man has to have higher standards than the mediocre chick he “got lucky and married”, heh. This is ONLY about getting a chick to do the naked dance with you here, it’s not about getting a chick looking for a nice beta to wallet rape for the rest of her life, where I think we both recognize that she’ll put up with some lesser dude (in other traits) as long as he supports her.

        75. “My country charm good friend would pull any woman out of any rich man’s grasp in a fast minute, as would most of my other alpha friends (and, frankly, so could I).”
          As for me losing the above bet, that you and your alpha posse could fuck any rich man’s girl, the exact phraseology being, “pull any woman out of any rich man’s grasp in a fast minute”…uh…I’m gonna let that one dangle in the breeze to be eaten by wolves. Nothing else needs to be said really.
          Anyway…interesting talk. Glad we had it.

        76. Bob, this isn’t about you or attacking you, I’m just absolutely certain you’re wrong from a lifetime of not just my own experience, but from watching a whole lot of other men nab top shelf pussy without needing to shell out cash or flash a large wallet.
          Money is not Game, money is a nice thing to have to possibly enhance your chances, but it’s not a drop dead necessity once you get to a certain level where your basics are covered (obviously, homeless dude ain’t picking up any chicks). The only girls for whom it’s a hard and fast requirement are the Pros, and the Gold Diggers.
          People like Tom Brady can pull top shelf pussy and hold a day job making only twenty bucks an hour, because he has all the other factors. It’s no mistake that you chose him instead of Bill Gates, which really is a tacit admission that there’s more to this than cash on the barrel head, you had to go for the guy who was already alpha in every other conceivable category.
          If Money is THE attractant though, then I shouldn’t have a chance with any woman married to a fat, dirty, bald, short billionaire. Period. End of sentence.

        77. Everyone to his own. For me she is too masculine looking, too man-jawed as Americans are wont to say.

        78. I didn’t say they were worth properly dicking down, just that if they were they would cease to be dykes…..as for Olivia Wilde…I don’t know what her sexual preference is, but if she fucks dogs i’d still pipe her out.

        79. First thing I ever wanted to be when I was 8 yrs old (after fireman) was…..

        80. oh haha, I thought you meant dykes in general. to each their own. I think she is a hot bobble head alien bitch.

        81. Some day it will be revealed that men are hardlined to be one specific sexuality, straight. Because of this, if a guy dabbles or gets molested, especially as a child or even teen, since as guys we are hard lined to be linear, due to the gay act they will now be forced to become gay. Not as a punishment but to rationalize anything that occurred while being molested.

        82. I’d say social status too, maybe even more than money. A dumpy CPA will do well, but a dumpy pilot is gonna do even better.

        83. A lot of people would disagree with you but I believe you are correct. There are natural aversions to homosexuality that every heterosexual male understands. When you are confronted with something that makes your stomach drop and then do backflips, you know nature is telling you it is wrong. There is no suppressing or ignoring that feeling, it is immutable.

        84. I even have a gay friend who agrees. He was abused a lot and actually wishes he wasnt gay if that makes sense. I feel bad for the dude.

        85. Whats your night game like? Wingman or solo? Do you mind drinking or dining alone? Dance clubs, dive bars or cocktail bar?
          Do you have a book or coaching program? Seminars?

        86. I agree. Plus playing the money card up front leads to some high expectations from whom you attract.

        87. I view the vast majority of Queers as victims — truly. However, the problem is that the mental patients have been given full reign of the asylum… And although I don’t have any fear (phobia) of them, I often do feel disgust.
          Psychiatrists and psychologists who specialized in the treatment of homosexuality in previous decades (mainly from the ’40s to ’70s) had a reputed “cure rate” of between 50-70%. There are some very interesting books written by men who were previously gay and then cured with intensive therapy.

        88. Solo almost always. I don’t do dance clubs, mostly hotel bars or high end restaurant bars. Nah, I don’t have a book or do any seminars or anything

        89. They have sex with you because you have money not out of desire for you. They desire your money. It’s great that you have so much cash and good for you for it, but really, you are just bragging about being seen as women’s potential beta bucks. Thought red pill was supposed to be about reality?
          The pounds signs flash, the panties drop. Yes, sure that is the way but they don’t want YOU -only your wallet. But who cares really-the why doesn’t matter to all men as long as it happens. Perhaps you are the type of guy that doesn’t really care about the difference between transactional and validational sex. Not every man needs to feel desired. Nevertheless saying women bang me cos I am rich is nothing to boast about. Doesn’t make you an alpha male at all.

        90. Yes the tingles should not be underestimated. Seen a good-looking woman leave a far more financially stable man for a financially less stable one because of da tingles. Tingles are all. They crave them and if a man can make a woman tingle from the top of her head and make those tingles flow down to open her vagina with just a look then she is his.
          Having sex with a man to get at his wallet is an inconvenience if that is all he has to offer.

        91. If I walk into the jungle with a pile of bananas in a bag and a lot of monkeys pay me a lot of attention and start grooming me, I can reach one of two conclusions:
          1, They like me for who I am
          2, They like my bananas and are just flattering me to get the bananas off me
          Well that’s how it is for rich guys who aren’t attractive in themselves. They kid themselves that they are attractive when the reality is that they are just a barrier to be jumped (literally!) to get to the bananas.
          Walk in there with no bananas and then you’ll find out how genuinely what a turn on to women you are. Lol.

        92. I’ve posted about this before- saw this happen to a guy who became so suicidal when his wife left that his friends stood watch over him. He got into racing cars and riding motorcycles and recovered.
          About 3 years later the woman came back saying she’d give him another chance. He said no way, and his friends said he couldn’t stop laughing for a week….

        93. I think they have a better understanding because they view them rationally without the filter/obfuscation arising from sexual interest.

        94. Once I was in a doughnut shop to get a cup of coffee, behind two land whales gleefully (and slowly) selecting a couple of boxes of donuts. One of them turned to me and said, “These aren’t for us”.
          I said, “I don’t care”.
          She said, “Really, these aren’t for us”.
          I said, “Really, I don’t care”.
          Then they got their doughnuts and left and I got my coffee.
          There must be a lesson here somewhere.

        95. Not to point fingers, but “there are no absolutes…” is, in itself, an absolute.

        96. All the women I’ve seen reading, it was Harry Potter, never seen anyone reading 50 Shades …… maybe it’s an Americunt book?

        97. Dragging your gf around with your mates is a loser move.
          Guys here go out with drinking with other men, leave their women at home, saves a fortune on the bar bills.

        98. In the 70s, they followed some ex cons post prison. One group of ex cons had been prison rapist and the other group had been victims of prison rape.
          The irony is that the men who took part in inflicting prison rape all claimed to be heterosexual as they did pre prison and claimed to have exclusive sexual relations with women after prison.
          The group of ex cons who had been forced into prison homosexuality, though they claimed to be exclusively heterosexual before prison, this group was now claiming to be homosexual. One had tried to resume relations with women after prison, but “it didn’t work ” in his own words.
          Even though violence and intimidation had been used to get them to submit to the role of being a passive homosexual role, they willingly continued it after prison. The thought among prisoners was that no “real man” would ever allow himself to be raped. So these men must have been gay all along and allowed themselves to be raped as a way of coming out of the closet.
          So were these guys really gay all along and didn’t know it until they went to prison or did their environment and being forced into a “female” role in prison change their sexuality?

        99. One prison rapist described how he did it. He lured the victim to an isolated part of the prison and when alone made his intentions known. If the inmate screamed for help, he would hit him and threaten to do worse if he screamed again.
          I didn’t want to hurt the kid, he said. He said he then ordered him to undress and had his way with the inmate. Interestingly enough, he said after a few weeks, he left the inmate alone who he had initially raped. And the boy sought him out and asked him why did he stop coming around and he said “I thought you said you weren’t a fairy so I thought I’d leave you alone “. He said the boy told him that he wasn’t gay, but that you “get used to things”.
          This reinforced in the prison rapist mind that his victims were really that way all along and probably just didn’t know it.

        100. We could write a Field Guide!
          “Dykus Americanus is easily recognizable by its male features…..etc.”

        101. haha, so I suggest the name “Dykus vulgaris common”. We have the same species in europe too. Indeed, we could easily write a guide !

        102. As a woman against feminism, I want to know where you got those stats from? I like to be sure about them. I’ve read from a medical study that ~44-48% of gays molested as children became molesters. I want to go over other stats and their accuracy. I love Milo and I don’t even condone his lifestyle (I’m actually in love with him). I do appreciate that he’s aware that the lifestyle is not positive, as you can’t create a child with the one you love naturally. He would like to take a Red Pill that cured it if it existed and wants kids the proper and traditional way. I could see the pain he felt as he announced his resignation from Breitbart. He doesn’t want what happened to him to keep him from climbing the career ladder and doesn’t want to give in to the whole victim-hood crap that SJWs scream about. Therapy doesn’t hurt, but he shouldn’t let such a label fully define him.

        103. That’s why prostitutes are the most honest working women. They leave all the bullshit aside and are upfront with money.

        1. I left my dick in yo moms last night
          Her pussy was loose
          But her ass was tight
          When I made her cum
          She squealed “All right!”
          I left my dick in yo moms last night

        2. Shit man, just pumped this song at the work the other day. Been binging on 90’s grunge lately, fuck those were great years… what the hell happened??

    2. I really want to make an intelligent and witty reply to this, but…
      dat ass tho

      1. My witty reply is this: I want a view from the FRONT of that third picture!

    3. Initially, women value attractive shape just as much as men do.
      In courtship, women value dominant game just as much as men value a submissive virgin.
      In family unit, women value money just as much as men value household work.
      Obviously host and parasite used to come to a judgement by compromising a little in each case.
      Not anymore though. Thanks to a flipped narrative by “empowered” feminists and the enabling cucks, which surprisingly made them miserable!

  2. Beauty kind of is subjective.
    Look at the guys who fetishize asian women? They could rationalize their lust, but the truth is simple: their dicks get hard when they look at asian women. When I look at asian people all I see is little gray alien hybrids.

  3. Good timing, i was thinking about this topic this afternoon after reading a Facebook post from a deluded feminist I went to university with about ‘body oppression’. Their war is ultimately with nature. They don’t look good and/or are too lazy improve to improve their appearance, so they blame society for their misfortune.
    I do sympathise with really ugly women because they find it harder to get on in life, but average looking women have nothing to complain about, especially in today’s degraded market where the bar for female attractiveness has been lowered to an absurd degree.
    As a short man I accept the cold indifference of nature. Rather than become resentful, I work around it and try to be the best man I can be at any given moment. I’m not going to hate on taller men or run to the state like a pussy for protection.
    You have to play the game with the cards you are dealt. It’s a lesson that feminists and other social engineers need to learn. It’s their complete inability to accept a tragic view of the world that is at the very root of their dysfunction.

  4. For physical appearance, women want the body of warrior because her evolutionary brain knows that is her natural protector. That is why in fitness, one should not go for big but rather for athletic and dynamic

  5. I would say beauty isn’t subjective. There are indeed many variations of humans, many skin tones, shapes and so on, but the cosmetics and fashion industries have done a lot to dictate and change what beauty is, as other people have commented too, beauty is no longer representative of fertility, beauty simply represents the amount of effort and money a woman is inclined to spend.

  6. I wanna FUCK Miss 124.
    It is my God-given right as a male to decide if I find a woman beautiful or not. Or rather, it is the prerogative of my dick.
    This is non-negotiable.
    Lust is not a matter of bargaining, never was, never will be.
    A woman can be beautiful only in the eyes of a man.

    1. I wanna FUCK Miss 124.
      The way you phrased this makes me wonder if you’d be shocked to learn that all eight of them are the same chick.

      1. Actually I was.
        I have to admit I did not realise that she is indeed the same chick on each of the pictures… 🙂

      2. I bet it’s a fake. She went from cute to beast just like the rest of her sisters.

  7. The key to understanding this question is to look at disqualifiers. What people find unnattrative or at least less attractive seems to be universal. In men, women generally don’t like men who are short or bald. How much a woman is prepared to tolerate those traits will depend largely on other factors like money (how much does he earn?) or looks (is she ordinary enough to overlook it?) etc. Men have their own set of preferences.
    I have no doubt that culture has some influence, but I refuse to believe that it’s the predominant factor in shaping perceptions of attractiveness. It is more influential in the transient realm of fashion and hair styles, which can change from month to month

    1. I’m reminded of a scene at the end of Animal House where a teenage boy is reading a Playboy and through a lucky accident, a cheerleader is tossed through his window into his bed. He cries out in joy: “Thank you God!”
      Feminists for decades claimed that it was the Patriarchal culture causing women to become anorexic while men clearly favor busty women and desire women who appear healthy. It’s the fashion industry, driven by women and homosexuals, that see the woman’s ideal as a tall, thin tarp to hang clothes on.
      50 years ago, women went easier on short, bald men. They preferred men who were tall, of course, but they regarded a “napoleon complex” as a good thing, such as Audie Murphy, a short war hero.
      For whatever reason (mass media, feminism?) American women are more heightist than any other nationality I’ve encountered combined with their own notion of, as epitomized by Bridget Jones’ Diary movies, all women being pretty “just the way they are.” So in their view, they’re all Disney princesses and men should be anonymous princes. And if they’re not, rather than re-examine their own shortcomings (pardon the pun), these women take it out on the men who fail to live up to those expectations as non-manly villains. The culture encourages women to bash men who fail to “measure up” (pun perhaps intended) as “losers” and even creeps. Heck, even on RoK, many buy into the “alpha male” role model that beta cucks unintentionally buy into: pander to women to get laid and throw other men under the bus. Ho’s before bros.
      What makes the red pill inevitable is that even if a man does “measure up” and heck, is even tall, without “frame” or a mentality of personal honor and virtue, such women will inevitably create a “shit test” that the ideal man will fail.

      1. I’ve actually heard that bald men had it harder in the 60’s. No idea about short men though.
        Women’s exclusive preference for height probably has to do with increased affluence. In the past they would have preferred taller men, but it was a preference rather than a restriction. Now many women wouldn’t be caught dead with a short man. They’d rather be single.

  8. It is all about health. Overweight is not healthy, neither is an anorexic. Blue hair and tattoos is not mentally healthy. Multiple piercings and the 1000 cock stare is not spiritually healthy. You have a girl who is physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy, and you have an attractive woman.

      1. Lots of slim girls are, if we scratch the surface, happen to be drug users. Especially if they are on Amphetamines or coke…

        1. They say Utah has one of the higher obesity rates in the USA. I look around at the population here in Utah, and I see lots of women who are overwieght, but not nearly as many of the anorexic druggie types. They seem to fare better when it comes to the wall than the Oregon counterparts.

        2. OK, what I had in mind was night game, and it is safe to assume that at night venues most women are just as high on something as their male counterparts are.
          The circumstances are entirely different in day-game, say in a library or a joga studio.

        3. Even pre-wall, their pussies dry up, depending on the substance. And a girl of 25 using hard drugs can look 40. There should be a law against selling hard drugs to women below 35 years of age…

      2. Depends on how picky you are, I would give it about a 20 pound range. Some guys can afford to be more picky than others.

        1. You’re absolutely right, I wouldn’t consider sleeping with a woman over 50kg and I tend not to fit in the ones under 40kg.

        1. I like Roosh but I do criticize him for not knowing when to say when. I am not a handsome guy, but I did the red pill hero’s journey: I red pilled, self-improved, got game and when I found and got a nice woman, married her up and had a child.
          I don’t judge Roosh. He built an amazing career for himself as a writer, travelor, and public speaker so he’s unique but for most of us here, the purpose of the journey should be to evolve beyond the cultural issues, personally, and create our own world so to speak. This world then serves as an example to others as to what healthy is.

        2. Changing the world with baby steps brother … leading by example. Showing what is normal , healthy and respectable , others will follow.

  9. What has really made western women unattractive is stress. This is to be expected when women are told they must compete with men. It causes obesity, premature aging and poor health. Not to mention ugliness of the soul. The greatest argument against feminism is all the women bitching about their stress.

    1. Or a better way of putting it is that bitching creates stress rather than relieves it.
      Just as men are natural hermits, women are natural bitches and left unchecked, they make themselves and others miserable with little to show for it whatsoever.
      I have to “check” my wife on this on a regular basis and she also notes that her women friends have this problem and one of the useful functions of men in their lives is to remind them that being miserable and making others around them in the type A hope to be 1% more efficient is more harm than good (if any).
      Then again, I do see this in men as well (as the Type A label was originally applied against.) I was riding my bike back last fall and approached an old couple from behind and said “excuse me, coming through” and the old man got all crotchety and nasty about stupid kids riding around near him even though I was making an effort to be friendly and considerate. I suspected he was a type A now in retirement used to barking at others around him. Now that he has no authority, it must be difficult or even impossible to live surrounded by people who don’t pay heed to his commands. Granted, being a Dude Lebowski has its own set of problems, but bitchiness is a dangerous thing.

  10. Very interesting post. Years ago, I went to high school with a plain, tall, heavy girl; she was quite intelligent, with a cheerful disposition. Her male relatives were champion athletes. Sure as the sun shines today she was pure as the driven snow, and after hs she married a very tall, hardworking fellow and had a family. Her grandsons are movie-star handsome. On the other hand, I’ve noticed online photos of sons of supermodels, and they have a certain bird-like quality. I’d include Trump’s sons in this category, although they are still quite handsome and fit young fellows. But they’ll probably have beautiful daughters. So maybe God made everyone for a reason.

    1. Agreed, just with the families I have known, the most attractive women come from families where the guys have feminine features, and the more masculine guys have daughters with blocky builds.

  11. Hypertension or diabetes or obesity doesn’t care how many followers you have on any social media site. Your life becomes uncomfortable and shortened.

        1. Well at least he didn’t post the Sir Reginald Brownpill video.

    1. At least someone was courteous enough to obscure view of the vagina… wouldn’t want to offend anyone’s virgin eyes.

      1. Hahahah
        Heaven forbid there’s a bit of fluff interrupting someone’s scat fetish

  12. It’s amazing what a few millimeters will do to a woman’s face. The difference between an 8 and a 10.

    1. Heck, consider Roosh’s famous debate with betas over how there really are ugly women and no hiding it:
      Here’s the thing: I can’t put my finger on (so to speak) what makes this woman ugly. Her skin is not terribly bad looking. She had good cheekbones and a chin. She could, with just some tweaks here or there, be quite lovely. My guess is that the big lips are not doing her a favor. Her smile ruins the symmetry of her face (she’s better off with a closed mouth smile even though her teeth are otherwise ok). Her eyes are perhaps too small and has brows like a caveman.
      Here’s Mila Kunis without makeup:
      So it makes quite a difference.

      1. She looks tired, like she just pulled an all night flight from Paris and couldn’t sleep. The lighting shows drooping skin, like it is fatness and no muscle tone whatsoever.

      2. Blotchy skin, under eye circles, horsey teeth, big nose, long face, eyes too close together. One or two of these flaws you would overlook, individually they’re not necessarily stand out … possibly the horse teeth … but the combo plus complete lack of self care push her over the edge. This is good example of an on the edge girl. With a bit of work, she’d be nearly unrecognizable.

        1. I was thinking the same. It’s like tuning a guitar in multiple ways until it’s so out of tune that it’s a torture device.
          She’d be a great candidate for one of those makeover shows. For starters, if she got her hair up and dropped it down around to one side, that would help to lessen the length of her face (maybe do bangs?) She could trim those caveman brows in a direction that would help her eyes to appear more feminine (work on the “T” zone). With some foundation and rouge, she could give her face a more rounded appearance.
          Note that us men here SUPPORT helping a woman to use some direction in making themselves more attractive while for women, they find us using “game” or elevator shoes to be “deceptive.”
          What angers feminists more than anything isn’t what us men say but other women (behind their back). My wife would simply look at her and say “she’s ugly” and that would be that. But she wouldn’t say it directly and these women know it and not being able to take out their ire upon other women, they direct it at us because it’s politically acceptable.

        2. The guitar …. such a lovely, meaningful analogy. The correlation between pleasing musical notes and beauty … I like that.
          I’m female. I can view with an objectivity men possibly can not simply because she’s of no use to me sexually? Show me pics of men and my bias will show. On the other hand, women and men don’t always agree on beauty standards.
          Tbf to this girl, and all the others in this thread, these are stills. Movement is always one element of beauty.
          That’s true about catty women. Despite accusations of their “impossible beauty standards”, by my observation men are almost always more forgiving than women. Men will look past a host of physical flaws in an otherwise young, feminine girl. What men dont forgive is ageing. There’s little to no way around that for women. Thats the real reason for our fear and the resulting backlash. But anyway .. I wouldn’t say to this woman’s face what I’ve said here. Why be cruel? Also, and perhaps more importantly, her less than fortunate facial features do not entirely devalue her in my eyes .

        3. This woman’s face reminds me of this actor: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000579/?ref_=tt_cl_t4
          Aging is a complex issue for both men and women. Do women find men who are obviously much older (graying/balding, needing a cane) sexy? Youth is generally sexy to both men and women although women have the emotional desire for an “experienced” man. Consider the 50 shades of grey porn film marketed towards women: Christian Grey was theoretically only 25, but a self-made billionaire, pilot, and experienced with women. Just because women’s physical desire for young men conflicts with a trait mostly held by older men doesn’t mean it’s less so.
          That being said, what many fail to understand is that men like “mature” women. I mean mature in a fashion regarding adulthood: Someone who doesn’t “flake” or play games, is able to make basic decisions, can have an adult discussion without getting upset if someone says something she doesn’t like.They grew (like men grow). Some people who a raised badly don’t learn from their mistakes, they just rationalize them and keep making them. I dated a 50 year old woman (when I was 30) whom I thought was attractive but realized as I grew, her maturity had maxed out at 40 or so. So I caught up with her, went past, and moved on.

  13. Symmetric men also smell better to women. There was a famous t-shirt test in which 20 men — 10 symmetrical, 10 asymmetrical — were asked to wear a t-shirt for three straight days without washing. Then they turned in the t-shirts to the researchers, who arranged them on a long table. A group of women were brought into the room, told to smell each t-shirt, and then rate if the man was attractive or not. Yes or no.
    Result: There was disagreement over the attractiveness of the asymmetrical men’s t-shirts … but EVERY WOMAN rated EVERY SYMMETRICAL man’s t-shirt as ATTRACTIVE. 100% correlation. God’s honest truth.
    tl;dr Alpha males smell different to women.

    1. does symmetry include balls ? ain’t happening in that department. Gravity is a bitch.

      1. actually, an angle in the dangle is most common. You see that in all kinds of animals. It keeps them from smacking together when you run.

  14. To use against anyone who tells you women used to be bigger and curvier back in the day
    1950s: 5 ft. 5.5 inches tall; 35 inch bust; 22 inch waist (approximately 2-3 inches less than the average American woman in the 1950s and 12 inches less than average today); and 35 inch hips, with a bra size of 36D.
    2015: 63.8 inches (approximately 5 feet 4 inches) and 166.2 pounds, size 16
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/029fc2204fecaad2046bb29eb7f98a4b6459590f6788c9d764bfae0eb83ab37e.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9fe6a9a7ec01549d4370f4e5a75ef8d8fac5a4909672d486eb08fe38a763776d.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/922f01e1004e99e6d710733fb288308928f8b37b7df6276b4626957890cd779b.jpg

    1. I’ll bet the IQ comparisons would be strikingly similar…
      1950s: High enough to fog a mirror.
      Today: High enough to fog a mirror.

      1. IQ? “All the best chefs in the world are men. Women are only good for one thing, brother” -Arab I used to work with.

    2. These two girls say so much. Top pic girl is pear shaped. Bad jawline, bad chin, nose too long and bulbous. Overall masculine. But she’s working it (eg arms up balances the pear shape), and she’s thin. Bottom pic girl has a great face, nice symmetry, and feminine …. but she’s fat. Women overemphasize a good face and excuse a bad body. Fat is acceptable. Maybe even will be favored.

        1. Outfit isn’t doing her any favors, no. Boyfriend jeans …. the name alone is a warning.

  15. I like big sluts and I cannot lie
    When I see a big slut I squirt in her eye…

  16. It’s a mistake to link character with weight, imo, just based on personal experience. I used to date a girl who underwent an unfortunate body transformation very much like the 124 to 197 redhead in the pic up there.
    Turns out she has some sort of gland issue (I forget exactly what it’s called) and is still seeking appropriate treatment for it to this day while struggling to shed pounds despite eating right and working out compulsively.
    It’s true, America does have an obesity epidemic, but unless you actually know the person in question, assuming that they’ve chosen to be that way just makes you an uninformed dickhead.

      1. Er, except in the case where the honest dickhead is completely incorrect, lol. Way to miss that point!

        1. Way to deflect by substituting the word “uninformed” in place of “honest” just like every other crybaby PC bitch who can’t face reality.

        2. Can you read? I get that you’re a cunt, but Jesus dude. At least follow the discussion properly.

        3. Does white-knighting for fat bitches score you a lot of landwhales and ham planets?

    1. Although i agree with you that you have to know the person because they might be having health issues , i would like to add that most , in fact , do not and also a small portion of them actually claim to have exactly what you said. In my country it was actually an epidemic of women saying that they have gland problems some years ago.
      It’s not my problem what anybody does as long as it doesn’t affect me , and that includes what they do with their own bodies , but i take the freedom to criticize a person that goes into third degree obesity as a human being lacking self-control , body image and self-respect. You should look and feel good for yourself first and foremost. You have to like yourself before someone else likes you and no … not the forced self-positive-image that they have.
      In conclusion , let fat people do whatever they want , but they can’t demand from me to like them or for that matter , to respect them.

      1. Would a good faith and ongoing effort to bring their extra body fat under control be enough to earn some respect?
        Hmm… in proofreading this post I noticed my choice of words in comparison with what you said. My phrasing of “earn some respect” is somewhat different than the “demand some respect” part that I am responding to. From the rest of your post I would guess that the answer to my question is “yes” unless they are using their continuing attempts in attempt to demand your respect, in which case the answer would be a “no.”

    2. The gland issue is a very small percentage. Most fat women are fat because they chose to be fat.
      I work in marketing and brand promotion….last weekend I worked a booth at the Working Women’s Show in Saint Louis,MO. The show’s vendors and attendees are 95% women. A vast majority of these women were fat, overweight, obese. American women stopped caring about their health and looks. These women were grabbing so many free samples of high-sugar snacks and drinks. American women seriously do not care about being fat.

      1. Oh I’m not disputing the obesity epidemic. I’m just saying that unless you know the woman personally, you’re assuming from a position of complete ignorance. Which is the opposite of red pill.

        1. Well, whether it is a mental or gland problem, neither one is healthy, and should be avoided. You can be cordial, doesn’t mean you want to get her phone number.

        2. A fat cunt is a fat cunt, I really don’t care why they are a fat cunt ……….
          If they are lazy gluttons I don’t want to fuck them,
          If they are genetically faulty or just sick, I don’t want to fuck them either.
          Attempting to breed with the unfit is racial suicide.

        3. Men drive most religions, men believe a woman will love them and be faithful.
          I see no evidence that men work with facts.

        4. That’s because you’re a piss-poor troll. Try harder and you’ll eventually realize the truth!

    3. This story sounds rather contrived. Seriously, people who are obese, especially when it happens as adult, have to take far more responsibility for it. Glandular problems are a challenge, but it is still the person that is the biggest factor.

      1. The truth often sounds contrived to retards.
        What possible reason would I have to make up a story like that? Do you think I’m trying to impress my friends on a pua website with my compassion for fat chicks? Lol.

        1. @ O Net Ruth

          The truth often sounds contrived to retards.

          Well, avoiding the truth the way trolls like you do definitely shows how dishonest you are. Does it also shed light on an underlying developmental retardation in you? Probably.
          = = = = =

          What possible reason would I have to make up a story like that? Do you think I’m trying to impress my friends on a pua website with my compassion for fat chicks? Lol.

          Since you are so disingenuous, I will spell it out for you.
          What possible reason, indeed. As part of this beauty, the article delves into the consistency of the idealized waist-to-hip ratio. You clearly brought up this manufactured (and at the very least conveniently exaggerated) story in an attempt to potentially minimize what extreme body fat says about the character of a person. That shows sensitivity to the inescapable personal responsibility factor.
          That sensitivity is great enough that you attempt to mask it with a weak attempt of a reduction to absurdity (that you are trying to impress friends on a pua website). Coupled with your expected hostility, a strong case can be made that you aren’t merely “compassionate” for, but are likely personal so afflicted. You have a very “emotional” atmosphere in your arguments (as in, quick to pull the name-calling and insults routine when challenged). Men, even Omega men, do not “argue” that way. Young women and even younger boys do, but not men.
          LOL. You had to ask.
          = = = = =
          Now, since you had the hubris to think people don’t see through your sham (and yes, practically everyone sees through it). I’ll go through your post and tear it to shreds (maybe, because I’m trying to impress friends on a PUA site… ROTFLMAO)…

          It’s a mistake to link character with weight, imo, just based on personal experience.

          Well… there are three things in that assertion, which are rather dubious. Firstly, a massive gain (and, in all probability, a quick one) in body fat (it is unlikely that most of that gain is not fat) will have a strong component of personal influence (directly or indirectly). To blame the ubiquitous “glandular” problem is specious at the very best.
          Secondly, you qualify the statement with the “In my opinion” disclaimer. Many a person (well, really every person) who does this is just attempting to pre-empt any reasonable request for citation or tangible unbiased support of their contention.
          Thirdly, you add in the “personal experience” to further mitigate any criticism that you are merely promoting a single and effectively cloistered story as the basis for you calling people “uninformed dickheads” (Quite the emotional response, along with the deceptive manner, a very telling one).
          = = = = =

          I used to date a girl who underwent an unfortunate body transformation very much like the 124 to 197 redhead in the pic up there.
          Turns out she has some sort of gland issue (I forget exactly what it’s called) and is still seeking appropriate treatment for it to this day while struggling to shed pounds despite eating right and working out compulsively.

          It is odd that you can’t seem to remember the name of the condition. Being that it is extremely rare that someone can increase their body weight by 50% this way, most would remember the name of the condition that supposedly caused this anomaly.
          Yes. It is questionable that this is even remotely close to the truth, if it happened at all.
          The point is that this type of fat increase is unlikely to occur if someone is actually committed to caloric budgeting in the form of diet and exercise. If the regimen of intake and output were still seeing such a gain, a cure can be easily found through medical science. Of course, one can “claim” that the mysterious condition made it impossible, but that is very unlikely.
          If your response is nothing but deflection, including but not exclusive to flippantly saying, “believe whatever you want, I’m telling the truth”, or personal insults or name-calling, we’ll all be rather sure that you are basically making this up.
          = = = = =

          It’s true, America does have an obesity epidemic,

          It sure does.
          = = = = =

          but unless you actually know the person in question,

          Yet, in practically all cases, people get obese (not just fat, but obese) from a steady and protracted practice of caloric surplus. Things like “glandular problems” do not have as much effect, and still require a long-term caloric surplus.
          The problem with SJW’s is the denial that they themselves are, by far, the single biggest factor in their own success or failure. Almost everyone faces challenges in maintaining a healthy physique. No one is demanding fitness model standards, just a good old fashioned healthy body fat ratio. Stop with the excuses. All that does is feed the delusion that getting really fat is not, in a large part, due to one’s own effort (or lack of effort).
          = = = = =

          assuming that they’ve chosen to be that way just makes you an uninformed dickhead.

          Recognize that this is really just a false dichotomy. In reality, between “choosing to” and “not choosing to” is “negligence”. It is like trying to minimize alcoholism because most who imbibe too much don’t actually set out to “drink to excess”. No. It is a bad habit that develops over… yes you guessed it… a steady protracted length of time. Stating that obesity is the effect of a long-term lack of attention to a person’s body shape does not make anyone a “dickhead”. Trying to bully people via speciously based shaming? Well, that’s definitely very “glans”-ular.
          Now, you are informed. What you choose to be is up to you.

        2. Really got inside your head didn’t I? Frankly I can’t be bothered to read past your second sentence of sophomoric psycho-babble, and again, I have no reason to lie about compassion for a girl that I knew.
          I look forward to your next wall of nonsense, lmfao!

        3. Really got inside your head didn’t I?

          (Roaring Laughter). That’s the expected deflection of yet another defeated troll.
          Just like the usual troll, you mistake how making you and your arguments look foolish are for you. They are not, they are for everyone else that is watching. That has really gotten to you… so you try to rationalize your purpose.
          = = = = =

          Frankly I can’t be bothered to read past your second sentence of sophomoric psycho-babble,

          Again, whether you acknowledge the facts of the matter are irrelevant. One of the main personality flaws of trolls is an extremely inflated view of self-importance. In reality, you have little.
          = = = = =

          and again, I have no reason to lie about compassion for a girl that I knew.

          As you are a troll, you have the usual “reason” of a troll. Basically, you are desperately attempting to injure feelings rather than discover the truth. You fail at both.
          = = = = =

          I look forward to your next wall of nonsense, lmfao!

          ROTFLMAO. Now… just who has gotten inside someone’s head? Trolls like you are so easy to rattle.
          You’re a troll and your story is a fake. It was obvious.

        4. LOL, you realize that you lose each time you respond to me and make yourself look even more like a retard, right? Of course you do, you’re the internet’s smartest armchair shrink!
          I certainly hope you have a vagina, otherwise you’ve been typing these novel-length love notes to another dude, lmao.

        5. LOL, you realize that you lose each time you respond to me and make yourself look even more like a retard, right? Of course you do, you’re the internet’s smartest armchair shrink!

          You realize that your attempts to associate some sort of penalty for responding to you just shows how you know you have no valid response right? Also, your constant need to call people names really speaks to your atrocious lack of maturity.
          No one needs even a rudimentary familiarity with psychiatric illnesses to see that you suffer from extremely low self-esteem. Keep trying to “win”. You just keep losing.
          = = = = =

          I certainly hope you have a vagina, otherwise you’ve been typing these novel-length love notes to another dude, lmao.

          That you are trying so hard to claim that you are a “dude” is a strong indicator that you are not. Coupled with your constant need to try and injure the “feelwings” of those that have defeated your argument makes it highly likely that you are the typical troll: a hurt woman that can’t accept she is the main cause of her own failures.

        6. I do believe you’re the most adorable troll I’ve ever seen on this site. I don’t know what I like better: your novel length incoherence masquerading as intellect or your little devil-horned butt buddy commenter friends who come along behind you and like each one of your cunty posts, lmao.
          Anyway, I’m glad you’re here. And yes, you totally got me sherlock, I’m a woman!

        7. No, I just need one of you faggots to form a coherent thought. Geezus thinks that typing a 7000 page novel which can be summed up as “I PROVED YOU WRONG!!!!!!” amounts to an argument.
          But really it’s just comedy gold. Keep ’em coming!

        8. Don’t think I have had that on my member tag. You seem rather paranoid. You should really get some mental health help.

        9. Geezus is right. Your name-calling is off the charts. What are you? 8 years old?
          …….yep. He proved that you were a liar. All your attacking is just making it more worth it.

        10. Nope. He proved that you were a liar. You’re just trying to deny it…… and doing a bad job at it.

        11. No, see, that’s where you guys fail. Well, it’s one of the many ways you guys fail. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Any first-year law student knows that much.
          Try again?

        12. He did prove it by supporting it with details. You’re just denying it… again.

        13. Hey! That is your usual bullshit. You’re still a cunt! Great!

        14. Well it’s nice to have a stalker. I liked Geezus better, though. He was actually funny!

        15. You’re the stalker and the troll here. Funny? Your little-kid-like posts are rather pathetic… but not that funny.

        16. But yet you are still trying to troll…… and still an epic failure. As far as coherent point. Geezus burned your *point* down to the ground. He definitely hurt you and it shows.

        17. Are you sure you know the difference between “hurt” and being laughed at? Geezus wrote 10,000 words about me and failed to say anything of substance, let alone prove a point.
          But I do appreciate the time he spent, lol. You should emulate him instead of just repeating what I said back to me in each successive post. Your content is very low effort!

        18. Still in denial I see…. LOL.
          He definitely hurt you and it shows.

        19. so… you ADMIT that you are in denial. Good. That is progress. I’ll report it to your case worker….. LOL.

        20. No, silly. I admitted that you can’t come up with anything except repeating what I said.
          Is english your second language?

        21. You should learn to read your own responses in context…… Is this lack of mental skills due to your fatness?

        22. Oh ok, I understand now. I missed it earlier when you said that your dad raped you. But it’s ok dude, it happens to a lot of people in your situation. The important thing is that you don’t let it affect the rest of your life!

        23. Too easy… go on, if I said that, quote it, dummy. You’re really clutch at straws now. You’re really bad at trolling…

        24. No I’m really good, because you’re still here spending your evening responding to me, lol!

        25. It’s evening *everywhere* in the world? You little trolls fail because you can’t see past your own nose. You’re the one up trolling…. what a loser. Come on, loser. Quote it or prove by not quoting it, you are wrong… as usual.

        26. Wait, what? Who said it was evening everywhere in the world? Lol. You really are mentally handicapped aren’t you?
          And I don’t have to quote anything to prove it. I’m using the Geezus school of proving, surely you’re familiar with that! You just say random shit and declare it to be so! Boom, proof!

        27. You thought it was evening here… so yeah you said it.
          Geezus quotes you and proves you to be wrong… so yeah… you’re wrong.
          So… quote it or, you are *wrong* yet again!

        28. No, silly, it’s evening where I am.
          And I haven’t been wrong yet, so how I could be wrong again? Unless you’re retarded, of course. In that case I understand and will make some allowance for your constant confusion.

        29. No, that doesn’t prove I’m a liar. It proves that you’re grasping at straws trying to prove I’m a liar.
          I do commend you for taking the time to scroll up, screenshot that, edit the screenshot, and then post it here, though.
          Finally, some high effort content (but still wrong)!

        30. That’s all I need to prove that you are little more than a LIAR. That’s all. There’s no coming back from that.

        31. LOL! But the only thing that it proved is that you’re a mental midget like Geezus. You are getting funnier, though, so at least we’re making progress!

        32. All the insults you toss out won’t hide it. You’re a liar. I proved it. End of story.
          Your __next post__ will just be __a_deflection__ followed by __an_insult__ which will prove your just immature too…..
          In 3… 2.. 1….

        33. Nope, this post is just more of my laughter at your definition of the word proof. So far, the only thing you’ve proved is that law school isn’t in your future!

        34. @ O Net Ruth

          I do believe you’re the most adorable troll I’ve ever seen on this site. I don’t know what I like better: your novel length incoherence masquerading as intellect or your little devil-horned butt buddy commenter friends who come along behind you and like each one of your cunty posts, lmao.

          Lol. You’re still trying?
          The problem with you is that you really did get hurt when I exposed your pseudo-intellectualism. You are trying far too hard to appear “unhurt” and it shows. As far as my “novel length” response, it is as long as it needs to be to give you no room for further attempts at false logic. Your claim of “incoherence”, well your claims in general, really, have little sway and you know it.
          I see the best part is that you got played by Robin Koch. He was clearly looking to remove what little credibility you had left and it worked. He effectively proved that you are a DISHONEST individual that will resort to clearly LYING. He has completely destroyed your reputation. No one needs to go any further with you now. All they need to do is to refer the readers to that thread. Here you go:

          Why Beauty Is Not As Subjective As Feminists Insist

          = = = = =

          Anyway, I’m glad you’re here. And yes, you totally got me sherlock, I’m a woman!

          Lol. Your feigned bravado is too obvious, little one. Yes, you are clearly an unhappy woman who lost the debate. You’ve earned the disrespect you will get from this point onward (it’s probably best to use another new sock puppet… like Kier…. Oh, I see you are).

        35. Brilliant move. She totally got lured into lying. The worst of the worst are trolls that openly lie like that.

        36. I’ll never know why they keep coming back to you for more.
          They even create new socks just to talk to you.
          Must be attention whores.

    4. It’s amazing how many fat people have gland/metabolism issues and hardly any of them are just lazy and eat too much.

    5. Thyroid? Adrenal? Soooo many women have this issue. Rates are climbing in men and children too. Everyone’s sick these days and no wonder. The cards may be stacked against us all – extra vigilance is the answer, not surrender. My aunt has this btw. She doesn’t eat grains, sugar, dairy, soy, or corn. Ever. It’s tough, most people aren’t willing to do it, but it works. She weighs just ten lbs more than when diagnosed.

    6. True, very true. The Fat Acceptance movement is making it very difficult for women AND men who are unable to maintain a healthy body weight, even though they are doing their best. Simply because they are overweight everybody is assuming that they are lazy slobs.
      But to much body-mass is to much body-mass, at least as far as my sex drive is concerned.

  17. Very good essay. This is perennial instinct and wiseness. Deconstruction bullshit really can’t beat this. I would like to share these quotes:
    “She is, in fact, a beautiful girl, and must be thought so by ninety-nine people out of an hundred; and till it appears that men are much more philosophic on the subject of beauty than they are generally supposed; till they do fall in love with well-informed minds instead of handsome faces, a girl, with such loveliness as Harriet, has a certainty of being admired and sought after, of having the power of chusing from among many, consequently a claim to be nice.” (Jane Austen, ‘Emma’, chapter VIII – 1815)
    “As if a man had anything to do with beauty! As if loveliness were not the special prerogative of woman—her legitimate appanage and heritage! I grant an ugly woman is a blot on the fair face of creation; but as to the gentlemen, let them be solicitous to possess only strength and valour: let their motto be:—Hunt, shoot, and fight: the rest is not worth a fillip. Such should be my device, were I a man.” (Charlotte Brontë, ‘Jane Eyre’, chapter XVII – 1847)
    Once you’ve mentioned David Buss: In 2009, he and psychologist Cindy Meston published a book called ‘Why Women Have Sex?’. It is a superb (and brutally honest) study about human attraction and sexuality.

    1. Thanks and nice quote. I have referred to or mentioned Why women have sex several times, such as in my article 6 things that have drastically improved my life. Good indeed.

  18. I understand the ugly women who want to redefine beauty to what they look like. I do not understand the cucks and white knights that go along with it.

      1. I get the feeling that a lot of these guys don’t regret this shit at all. It’s like some kind of weird fetish or something.

        1. the thing is, they are ruining it with the rest of us. That “baby got back” by Sirmixalot is one of the most cuckolded songs out there. Way more than any boy band “ill be there for you” type song.

        2. I’m happy to say that I have absolutely no idea what you just referenced.

        3. I’m more we’ve “reached the 3rd day in a 7 day binge” and your name is already disintegrating from my lips ……..

        4. It’s not Sir Mix-a-lot’s fault that the women always ignore the “itty-bitty waist” part. He was actually a fan of the hourglass shape.

        5. “…when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face…”
          This is the complete opposite of fat/obese.

      2. I suppose….we really need to teach our sons that this thirst only exacerbates the problem. No one respects or likes a kiss ass.

        1. Sometimes the person with the ass getting kissed likes it.

        2. They might, but there is no respect for the kiss ass. Women won’t go for that.

    1. The cuck-old white knights? That is called “desperation” for p*ssy.
      As the article shows, the foundations of beauty in human form conform (a word that every quasi-egalitarians hate) to the nature of the species. Ideals in basic shapes, proportions, body musculature and fat disposition: these are all relatively static, and no amount of emotionally charged screaming and stamping one’s feet is changing that.
      The problem lays in the specious conflation of variability in fine definition to be proof of variability in the underlying landscape. Neo-feminists therefore pretend that something that is dynamic at the relatively microscopic level is “proof” that the macroscopic surface is as fluid so that any given presentation is “beautiful” however small the segment who agrees.
      The truth is far from their fairy-tale.
      Effectively, their delusion that “beauty” is purely subjective, and that only systemic pressure creates the universality of basic good looks is a rationalization. If looks were a basketball game, these SJW would claim that points should be awarded for missing the basket since some (here to unseen) people could find that more worthy than that snappy nothing-but-net fade-away.
      It gets ridiculous when these activists demand that “everyone” is beautiful just because they personally think they are. Under-achievement is somehow “worthy” in the world of the entitled.

      1. “Under-achievement is somehow “worthy” in the world of the entitled.” – Excellent quote.

    1. I am interested in women in the 20% to 25% range, and I am trying to get myself down to <25%
      Progress is slow, but steady.
      Edit: Make that the 20% to 30% range that I am interested in.

  19. “Women prefer taller men”
    That is of course unless you have game. My wife fit the standard of beauty when we met, and is taller than me. But I was the one she couldn’t give up on despite several break ups.
    One thing women can’t resist(I know I’m preaching the choir) is a guy who doesn’t need her. Find that perfect mix of nice guy/prick, and they’ll not easily move on from you.

  20. Never forget to keep female ego and hypergamy in check even if she fits the standard of beauty. Tell her you have more options than her and that she is equal to a lower status male than yourself – that she is *lucky* to be with you

  21. but beauty is indeed subjective…
    I am always disgusted when some of my male friends consider some ugly females as pretty.

  22. This is an interesting topic, my thoughts on it is that the formula for female attractiveness is quality + femininity and likewise for men its quality + masculinity. Theres an element of subjectivity in the sense that peopld have preferences and are influenced by their biases and emotions but in general i think its objective for both men and women. Its all in the proportions, beautiful faces and bodies have a mathematical harmony to them thats hard to explain. Not to mention clean shiny skin, big boobs, ass, muscles height etc. People are drawn to beautiful things and people not just for reproduction but for themselves. The phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” is a freudian slip for people who feel inadequate and cant cope so they reduce it to a subjective phenomenon. That way if they get rejected or see someone hotter they can tell themselves its not their fault to protect their fragile and poorly developed self esteem

  23. What about girls who have fit/healthy bodies but an “ugly” face, what are they supposed to do? kill themselves?

    1. “What about girls who have fit/healthy bodies but an “ugly” face, what are they supposed to do? kill themselves?”
      This article is about how feminist-types try to tell everyone that beauty is completely subjective. That’s the lie. Most guys will have similar ideas on what is beauty.
      This does not talk about what ugly-faced women are supposed to do in any given situation. You should get lost, troll.

      1. Okay but in your opinion, what *should* ugly-faced women do according to you guys who believe that bad genes shouldn’t be passed on to your offspring?
        Can you answer that? assuming these ugly women are fit, healthy and non-feminist.
        Go on. Answer. This site claims to have the answers to all my questions. So can you answer this one?

        1. “This site claims to have the answers to all my questions”
          Where does it say that? GO ON. Answer.
          … silence? Ya… I didn’t think so.

        2. Part of being a troll is having delusions like thinking some site for men will have advice for stupid special snowflakes.
          Worst Flake Evuh!!!!!!
          XD XD xD xD

      2. All you people do here is pat eachother on the back for repeating the same pseudoscience bs over and over again.

        1. Nope. It’s trolls like you that use the same old fallacies over-and-over again (like the straw man of “should an ugly woman kill herself?” bullshit.)
          You trolls are so juvenile.

  24. I disagree with the statement: “calling someone a fag for being pretty is a defense mechanism…”, that muscular guy in the picture is not pretty he’s badass and tough. Why do you think women go after the soldiers, police officers, firemen, astronauts, the CEO in the power suit, martial artists, boxers, pro-athletes, bodybuilders, racers, monster truckers, bad boys, bikers, rockstars, headbangers, hip-hop dancers, and gangster rappers? It is because they possess strength, power and dominance. There is a separate standard for male physical appearance and female physical appearance: men are muscular and badass, women are slender and pretty. There is no way women will be attracted to some androgynous, effeminate, pussy-boy, pretty-boy, mangina unless she is a feminist bitch looking for a white knight male slave who will serve her while she withdraws sex from him as much as possible and, if she is attractive despite her feminism, reserves it for the badass male she is secretly having an affair with, and if she is not attractive, she’ll be focusing more attention on her collection of cats, getting obese from all the unhealthy food that the food industry’s shoving down her landwhale throat, and being a shopaholic, shopping for fashionable clothes and getting cosmetic treatments because of the belief that she can buy good looks with money while simultaneously being a complete slob and the fact that women are naturally shallow and dumb and only have good looks as their priority.

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