78 thoughts on “The Battle To Maintain Frame Control”

1. The 48 Laws of Power and Think & Grow Rich discuss much of this, the latter talking about a life purpose, and the former often talks about being bold to destroy timidity, and the king making his own reality.
   Required reading for our community IMO. Makes everything very clear and begins to retool your thinking.

   1. I’m about halfway through the 48 laws and while it’s certainly interesting and some of it is very valuable, some of it is also little too ‘meh’ to me. It also demands much as ‘The Prince’ does, that one accept that ethics, morality, etc are little more than social conventions that hinder your progress and that the best thing you can do is immediately jettison all notions of fairness, kindness, etc – those abstractions which have been called virtue in most civilizations throughout most of human history.

      1. the 48 laws are not a good model for masculinity even if it may not hurt to study them . They are about power & politics & arguably apply equally to men and women. They are however essentially red pill in their essence, but as you say not in a morally improving way. Personally I think the laws of masculinity (the writers on this site should really think about publishing a book on that name) has to have a moral centre precisely because the reason for all the pussification in the world is that masculinity has been attacked as containing all the evil in the world. It has lost its high ground.. So power and masculinity, yes they are connected, just as a phallus is another word for a dick, but there is more to being masculine than exhibiting a will to power at any cost. Before we just throw everything and anything in to the mix we have to find what is specifically good about masculinity; what it will do for us; what it will do for women; for the whole of society. Get the morality right, and then you get the self-belief which must lie at the root of confidence. The 48 laws may enable you to win battles that you might otherwise lose, but sometimes there is a cost to winning battles at any cost. The warriors of the past did everything they could to win, but they were always prepared to die rather than lose their honour

   2. Natural Laws is better than that.
      

2. “But the good news is that you can start now. Now. You need to start putting in your work now. ”
   And do what, exactly? The article never says. That’s the problem with these “already made it” types giving advice. It doesn’t occur to them that the rest of us don’t know the nitty gritty, down-and-dirty details because to them it’s blatantly obvious and doesn’t need to be stated.
   It’s like a cooking column where they just tell you, “mix a cup of flour, a cup of ginger, and a cup of quinoa.” What’s quinoa? Where do I get it? A cup of ginger? What, just the root? Should I chop it or something? A cup of flour? Looking in the dictionary it seems that flour means grain powder. What kind of grain? Do I need to grind it myself?
   What’s a cup? Any cup I have in the kitchen? And what do I put these ingredients in to mix? On the kitchen counter? What does “mix” mean, anyway?
   To the pro chef or even an amateur cook, these are idiot questions which everybody knows. “Everybody” knows that quinoa is the latest hot ingredient in hipster cuisine, ginger should be grated, and in the absence of modifiers flour means wheat flour.
   Explaining is just an unnecessary waste of words.
   Yes, a lot of men really do need these things spelled out in excruciating detail. Forgive us. Our fathers didn’t teach us, and we trusted feminists not to lie about what women want.

   1. When I said, “you need to start putting in your work now”, I meant just that. The article says that you need to start collecting life experiences.
      To build solid inner game that can withstand the tidal waves of life, you need to have a variety of life experiences.
      There is no magic wand, Clarence!
      There is no connect the dots!
      I said that you need to amass some “ups, downs, highs, lows, blood, toil, sweat, tears, jobs, travel, books, bangs, depressions, failures, successes, scars, etc.” This will be your bedrock frame. Your battle scars.
      No other way is as enduring.
      No other way will be as meaningful.
      Inner game and frame control cannot be downloaded by pressing “ENTER”. You have to live it.
      Focus on living as broadly, deeply, and as intensely as you can, within your means, Clarence.
      And you have to practice.
      Now get your ass out there. Stop overanalyzing.
      And carry a spirit deserving of praise.

   2. Clarence, I did address your concern in the article:
      “Unfortunately there are no shortcuts here. Frame control, at its deepest level, cannot be Gorilla-glued onto your personality overnight. It is accreted slowly, like the drops of water falling in caves that gradually, over time, produce such wondrous mineral formations. It takes years of seasoning: experience, blood, toil, tears, sweat, battles, ups, downs, highs, lows, joys, depressions, scars, bangs, books, anguish, agony, fury, trips, and jobs to acquire.”
      Read that. There is no shortcut.
      There is no magic formula here. You need to get out there and live life, and get into a variety of intense life experiences. Work, play, live, travel, bang, suffer, get your ass kicked by life, get fired, get dumped. You need to have a certain number of years under your belt.
      Most of us are not natural confident types. If you are, then you don’t need my advice.
      But most of us need to have a certain level of seasoning before we can really project our masculine center.
      Stop looking for magic wands, Clarence.
      The magic wand is you. But it takes years to wave it.
      Now get out there and do something.
      And carry a spirit deserving of praise.

      1. Quintus, you forgot to talk about Natural Laws and Free Will and how these Truths are the Reality we should all strive to align our perception of the world with.
         

      2. So…after years of experience “frame” will magically appear? I’m not buying it. A man can do those things forever and still have no “frame”. I live overseas and know any number of men who have lived highly unusual lives with all that adventure stuff and yet they’re still beta schlubs.

         1. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Is that what you want, Clarence? You want me to reach through this computer screen and wipe your nose for you? A written guarantee that if you connect Dot A with Dot B with Dot C, that you will be happy and content? Is that what you want?
            Life is about struggle. No one promised you happiness. No one here at ROK promised you a rose garden. No one, least of all me, promised you a great frame from reading my article.
            But that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. If you read my words, and apply my message, you will have a better chance of succeeding in mastering your frame.
            Frame does not “magically” appear, and I never said it would. I said it would accrete slowly, over time.
            Yes, of course, some people blunder about their entire lives and still are assholes.
            Following any advice is not a guarantee of success. But that doesn’t mean the advice is flawed.
            Stop looking for excuses to avoid working.

         2. An unusual life does not necessarily lead to a successful life. In fact, I would argue that an unusual life leads to the opposite; A man who puts himself in unusual positions for the sake of novelty is usually a good sign of complicated personal issues.
            An exmple of this can be found in porn-users. The more a man becomes addicted to porn, the more novelty he will be willing to pursue. This is due to a complex re-wiring of different pathways in the brain which I don’t really even know of.
            All in all, complexity doesn’t necessary equate to success or even rationality in most cases. Most criminals that are deemed as insane by the general public reflect this fact.

         3. Frame is an abstract idea. The best way to learn about abstract ideas is to break them down into quantifiable and qualifiable elements, look at the elements as tools to get what you want.
            I find the fastest way to form your own frame is to emulate and integrate someone else’s frame. It’s similar to how teaching is conducted, the teacher teaches you how to solve problems their way. Emulation and integration lets a student learn regardless of the other persons’s ability and desire to teach.
            Closely examine the sub communication of influential speakers, study the physical proportions of people with immense physical presence, learn about the world views, boundaries and mental operating procedures of people that have the results you want. All of it adds up to produce an effective frame. Curiosity and discipline will determine how far you can get.
            Through experience, you keep what works, ditch what doesn’t and figure out why it works for future learnings.
            Think of it as an apprenticeship, you show up and follow what the master does. After a couple of years of practice, you start getting some of his results. Eventually, you will have enough mastery over the skill to create your own effective innovations, this is when you have integrated the skill. It’s a fast and streamlined process compared to trying to figure everything out by yourself.
            You’ll probably come across as inauthentic in the beginning, but that will go away once you come full circle and integrate successfully.

         4. Perhaps the difference between a man who experiences life and yet remains a beta schlub and a man who uses his experience to develop frame, is that the man with greater frame sought experience for the purpose of developing frame. For instance, I started a business not simply because I felt like it, but because I wanted to teach my son how to run a business, and I didn’t yet know how. Seeking adventure for the purpose of becoming a better man is different than seeking adventure because you’re bored.

         5. Wipe my nose? Again with the mommy shaming language.
            For the record, I’m not asking anyone to do anything. I’m just saying here’s an article about frame that doesn’t actually say what to do. It just sort of assumes that the reader will be acquire frame after doing these deeds. This doesn’t jibe with my experience at all. I think a lot of men, particularly those just starting out, would really benefit from an explicit telling.

         6. Telling a novice reader to put one foot in front of the other himself is very necessary. And there is nothing wrong found in this.
            Quintus’ article merely points out the importance of self-provided experience. There’s nothing more to it. Could he have made this clearer? Perhaps. But your assumptions that Quintus meant his article to be some sort of step-by-step bible guide is far-fetched.

         7. Quintus cannot actually tell someone what to do because for each man it is completely different.
            For me;
            My frame is one where I do not allow any situation, no matter how frustrating or grave a situation becomes.
            This only comes from years of dealing with absolute bullshit, basically everything going wrong in my life and rebuilding it – from bottom up – many times.
            Its about how I speak. My charm and manner. The cadence of my voice, my choice of words, the elegant way I can articulate my words and utilize my extensive vocabulary even when dealing with fucking dumbshits.
            Its about using my “street smarts” – sizing people up and winning them over.
            Its about my posture and my carriage. How I walk, talk, interact. think. There may be many men better looking and stronger than me; but they dont have my brains and aggressive inner strength and fortitude.
            Anyway, thats what “Frame” means to me.

         8. “where I do not allow any situation (to get to me, faze me).

         9. The guest below this post has an excellent point. I would add to that that you must have the experience to have the perspective. You can not experience the Sistine Chapel through a photo tour. You must have looked up and lost yourself in the experience to experience the humbling awe… and so it goes with Frame. I suspect there’s a chicken-and-egg question to be asked, too, with the mellowing effect of anno domini on your frame.
            Yes, there’s an aspect of Quintus telling you to ‘be awesome’ here without giving you a recipe to do so… at least on first blush. Reread the article again, and this time, frame your reading with a dose of faith, in that the older guys here seem to universally applaud his post. Have faith that the answers and mysteries here are only limited by your youth and experiences to date. Now, with that in mind, you can reread the article and take it for what it is meant to me- a madlib for your benefit, with preprogrammed blanks to be filled out by individual experience.

         10. The article lacks information for discerning frame from non-frame. In this respect it is similar to feminist articles, which typically whine about negatives with no positives.
             This absence of evidence of what is meant by “frame”, is evidence that there is no “frame”.
             As for my own experiments in having a strong frame, or something similar: No extra contact from women, but screaming and accusations, refusals of work, threats, and being fired.
             But then again, I live in Scandinavia, where the law of Jante is strong.

         11. Clarence,
             Perhaps this “regurgitation” from a mother bird’s crop will help.
             Frame: The visual boundary (like a photo frame). Everything outside is undefined/out of focus or irrelevant. What matters is what’s contained inside the frame, which is deliberately constructed and is the center of attention.
             Take this metaphor a little further. Decide how you will deliberately construct your view of the world and how you will operate according to that view. Everything outside of that is not your focus or is irrelevant.
             Start by framing your philosophy of the world. I personally prefer Stoic philosophy and the Books of Psalms, Proverbs, Songs of Solomon and Ecclesiastes. Others here like Buddhism and Confucianism. Others still the Dark Triad and secret societies. Whatever. Use that philosophy as your mind’s operating system, which means every waking moment should be preoccupied/saturated with your philosophical OS (like booting up a computer).
             Next, decide how to conform your existence to your philosophical frame. Does your physical body conform to your view of the world? What specific thing do you need to do to achieve this? What process/routine/program will you follow? What about your intellect, emotions, social relationships (womyn included), economic activities and spiritual beliefs? Are they inside the frame you have defined? What particular things will you select for each one of them to bring them inside the frame?
             Last, set your calendar/timetable. There are 6 dimensions of existence alluded to above (physical, intellectual, emotional, social, economic and spiritual) Deal with one at a time. Dedicate 1 year to each dimension to achieve at least 75% congruence with your central philosophy (how you define 75% is up to you). That’s 6 years of work. Hard, fun, focused, ambitious, dedicated, disciplined work. Rinse and repeat on the 7th year (7 is my Magic Number — take your pick). Record your progress each step of the way.
             It’s easiest to start with the physical because you’ll appreciate the results of your efforts within the immediate grasp of your senses. It’s the easiest way to “know” you’re progressing. Finish that 1 year. Then move to the next most proximate dimension (e.g., intellectual or social). When you move to the next thing, you don’t drop the ball on all the others preceding. Don’t stop sculpting your body just because you’ve now started honing your daygame skills. Don’t stop honing your daygame skills just because you’re working on an “Internet empire”. Don’t stop working on your Internet empire now that you’ve joined Islam.
             Beyond that, it’s up to you.
             I trust you’re now well fed.

         12. You’re in a frame of not being able to create reality, thinking reality exists only from evidence exerted outside yourself. Within framing, you yourself must create the evidence for your world view, your frame, your take on reality. If you wait for others to create this evidence, you will be relying on their frames. There are amazing frames out there that you can adopt, and likely have. But if you want your own frame, there is an element of uncertainty that only you can overturn with your own certainty.

      3. Exactly. An example would be this: you see a cute girl at the grocery store and decide to approach her. The previous year you had approached at a grocery store but were darting your eyes, shaky, and lacked the natural confidence so it didn’t go anywhere and you were gently rejected. It hurt but you learned. So you practiced more, reflected, improved, talked to mentors, became a better man, etc. Now a year later you can say to your self, “Don’t fuck this up like the girl from last year, you got this, you are the boss.” and just calmly walk up and work some magic. No book, “guru”, formula can tell you how to approach in ANY situation. It’s only through learning from pain and mistakes that you can learn. Don’t put it on your fathers, mothers, or society. As Psquare quoted Marcus Aurelius, “You have power over your mind – not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.” All the game you need is in your DNA, you just have to dig it out with some work.

         1. Exactly. Draw upon the thousand year old warrior blood in your lineage. Not from the estrogen polluted water that you have nurtured with by the PC modern Matriarchal society.

      4. Good article.
         But I’m looking for examples in situations of how to hold frame.
         What I got from it is having a masculine essence, but provide examples, please?

   3. To summarize what Quintus just said, men looking for self-improvement
      need to develop their own frame. A frame is developed mostly by
      experience, which can be defined as a situation an individual finds or
      puts himself in. While experience is sometimes thrown at an individual
      without him expecting it, it is ideal for an individual seeking
      self-improvement to put himself in the situations/experiences he himself
      deems necessary, (or experiences/situations that are suggested by
      others he knows/trusts). This is the most effecient way to harden one’s
      frame, the keyword being experience.
      It is similar to
      gaining muscle through physical training, with a certain BMI level or
      simple weight as a goal. On the one hand, a farmer will, in a sense,
      passively reach his goal quite easily because he is already plowing the
      fields, lifting heavy objects, etc. as a farmer. On the other hand, a
      computer programmer will not have it so easy, since he will most likely
      be sitting in a chair typing on a keyboard for the majority of his day.
      In this scensario, if the computer programmer wants to achieve the same
      level of physical fitness as the farmer, he will have to GO OUT OF HIS
      WAY (capitalized for importance) and ACTIVELY (as opposed to passively,
      like the farmer) put himself in situations/experiences similar to that
      of the farmer or even more so than the farmer, (if he wishes to excel
      him), if he wishes to achieve his goal.
      Really, what
      it all comes down to is activeness vs. passiveness, both of which is
      measured by how many experiences/situations an individual puts HIMSELF
      in, as opposed to experiences/situations that are brought to him outside
      of his awareness/expectations. Understanding this is key to developing a
      masculine frame and reaching a deterined level of self-improvement as a
      result.
      tl;dr Mommy isn’t going to hold your hand as
      and lead you towards Sally across the room so you can go talk to her.
      You have to put your own god damn feet forward and put yourself before
      her so you can talk to her. And whatever happens as a result, you have
      use your own damn feet once again to walk in whatever other direction you deem necessary.

      1. Well and truly said. We’re on the same page of music.

      2. Thanks for the shaming language about Mommy. You sound like a feminist. I know a ton of men locally who have put themselves through all sorts of adventures and yet are still spineless wusses. There’s something missing from your description.

         1. I said that only because it’s true; Mommy shouldn’t be with you after you’re 18 if you want to develop a healthy masculine frame. Some would argue an even lower age. Men are naturally meant to leave their families and especially their mothers when they come of age and become independent. Do you not think so?
            And of course, there is more to the story than just physically approaching a woman. I’m writing a comment, not an entire essay. Once a man approaches a woman, he has to do other things as well, such as flirting and handling potential rejection. It is in these subsequent events where the man has potential to fail over and over again. I am in no way saying you have to put yourself in a situation/experience and that’s fucking it and you magically gain good frame. Of course there is more to it, but let’s focus on what Quintus’ article is talking about specifically first.

   4. I addressed the issue of frame control sometime ago on Obsidian’s blog. Quintus Curtius is right—there is no one-size fits all formula. But there are some things you can do to get started:

      “Maintaining a strong frame is key—but it can be difficult for newbies to grasp because the notion of frame can be a bit abstract. I don’t consider myself a teacher of Game (by any means) but I think the way to think about it initially is that you should keep your women reacting to you and not vice versa. It’s a bit tactical (as opposed to strategic) but for those just starting out it’s a good place to start.”

      “That said, there are lots of ways of establishing/maintaining your frame that aren’t what we traditionally think of as Game techniques. One of those is just being larger and stronger than women. I’m 6’1, 200, and jacked–you might be surprised at the level of immediate deference that commands from people of both sexes. My advice to the newbies is to work on your body in addition to work on Game–especially for guys who don’t have height. It should be part of process of making yourself a new man, in my view.”

      http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/66264

      1. That is an excellent point and let me say you’re so right.
         I’m relatively new to working out but the result has been excellent. I’m getting less bullshit from men than I did when I was thin and more attention from women now, never had that before.
         Just have to have the confidence and frame on the inside to back it up it seems like.

   5. Clarence, as usually happens when someone questions Quintus’ logic from one of his posts, he gets defensive and unhelpful. I understand that you are looking for a detailed “how-to” on developing and maintaining a frame. Most of the PUA guides by Roosh, Mystery, etc go into it to some degree but the best I’ve seen is “Rules of the Game” by Neil Strauss. He goes into great detail on topics like posture, voice inflection and speed, conversational techniques, style, etc. Plus, he recommends specialized resources for further study. A book like that is what you’re looking for, I think.

   6. Clarence, take your values- everything that is important to you- from the smallest to the largest. Put them down on paper, mentally ingrain them into your mind- whatever. Then start adhering to them in every single possible situation you come across. For me personally, my values in terms of this whole redpill thing boils down to three fundamentals- benchmarks that are constantly being improved upon, and one single rule that has to always be remembered.
      1) Fitness- never abandoning the importance of my health and my aesthetic appeal.
      2) Compensation- always doing the most to maximize my dollar, in terms of savings, spending, and making more of it. Also, never making decisions that can hurt my money. That can be poor investments, women, or a multitude of other choices that can be made.
      3) Communication- doing everything I possibly can in my interactions to come out on top. That can be with women, in the workplace, with family- it doesn’t matter. Being charming, funny, and interesting when that’s what the situation calls for. Also being a ruthless and cunning cut-throat son of a bitch if I have to be.
      All we as men have to do is turn on the TV, visit mainstream media sites, or just be in conversations with “normal” people to know that men are “bad”. We rape, we murder, we do it all. We’re the source of all that’s wrong in the world- we’re reminded of it all the fucking time. Which brings me to the one single rule that I always keep in the front of my mind-
      Women can be pieces of shit too.
      Never forgetting is all a man needs to keep in mind when dealing with them.
      My frame is built around those three fundamentals, and that one rule. The result? I look like a guy that has his shit together. I have the financial situation of a guy that has his shit together (albeit not rich), and I can talk with people and they walk always saying, “Man, that guy has his shit together.” On top of that, I can’t be fucked over by a woman because I know what they’re all about. I know through personal experience and watching the lives of men I know crumble around them what they’re capable of. My mindset with women is “You don’t fuck me, I fuck you”- and that applies to everything with them.
      Figure it out for yourself dude. Take inventory on who the fuck you are. Be steadfast in your beliefs, your goals, and whatever else you think is important. Know when to hold your tongue, and know when to unleash hell. That’s the beauty of this whole “redpill” thing- it’s whatever you want it to be for YOU. Your frame is YOU. It’s not mine, it’s not Quintus’, it’s yours. Get introspective. You’ll know if you’re doing it right if YOU are happy with the results. You’re in charge of YOUR happiness- no one fucking else dude. Blaze your own trail in your own way.
      It’s really that simple.

   7. Think about what your principles, ideals and goals are. They are the foundation of everything and give you the ‘map’ to navigate your life.
      I like how Jack Donovan condensed it in “The way of men” as the four main qualities that define masculinity: strength, courage, mastery, honour. It’s a very useful compass to have. Think how everything you do must demonstrate those qualities.
      Recently I also was pondering about frame and principles. I came up with a sort of framework that I call ‘The 5 F’s’. These are:
      Freedom
      Finances
      Physical
      Philosophy
      Fornication
      I know physique and philosophy are not spelled with an F but it sounds like one, so ‘5 F’s’ is a handy mnemonic 🙂
      Those five represent the main qualities or areas I want to cultivate in my life. Everything I do will be assessed according to whether it helps or hinders one or more of the five F’s.
      Each F can represent a wide variety of goals and attributes. Freedom can mean your freedom to schedule your time how you wish, your freedom to see the people you enjoy most and avoid those who bring you down, your freedom to choose which activities gratify you the most and avoid the ones you hate, your freedom to live where you like if mobility is important for you, and so on.
      Finances of course means your financial position, but think of it both in the immediate as well as the long term. Something may not help your financial position right now, but it could enhance your ability to make or keep money in the future. So it would still be a good investment in your financial security.
      The Physical encompasses everything in the physical realm: your physique, your fitness, your health, your visible style, your environment and living arrangement, your comfort, etc.
      Think of Philosophy in the old classical meaning, when it literally meant ‘love of knowledge’. This encompasses your whole mental realm: your knowledge, culture, world view, skills, capabilities, mastery, mental health, personal happiness, emotional control, etc.
      We all know what Fornication means 🙂 If having a varied and satisfying
      sex life is important to you, this F is the filter through which you
      will assess your satisfaction with this area of your life.
      To use this framework, you simply run every decision / activity through the 5 F Test. Will it help at least one of the key areas? Or will it impact negatively on them?
      If you feel like an hour of two of downtime, which activity will enhance one or more of the 5 F areas? Watching some stupid meaningless reality show on TV? Or maybe it would be better to read a good book, or practice an existing or new skill or art, or take some exercise? Is it better to keep spending your lunch break eating sub standard food at some take out joint, or would it be better to prepare some good wholesome lunches at home, thus improving both your physical and financial areas (since you will also save some money by preparing food yourself)? Does associating with this person help one or more of my key F areas, or does he/she actually have a negative effect on my life?
      You can see how you can apply this to everything. It gives you a handy guide to run a cost benefit analysis on every factor in your life, and will make it clear how you should decide. If something helps at least one of the key areas, then it’s worth your while. If not, or especially if it affects one or more areas negatively, then you know that thing is not good for you. And that’s what it means to have ‘frame’. You have a framework by which to run your life. It allows you to be the master of your ship and to steer its course firmly, instead of being like a cork tossed around by the waves.
      I hope this is helpful. Your actual framework may be different from mine, but I just wanted to show you how you can approach it mentally.

   8. Here’s an important one that actually works remarkably well, particularly if you are young:
      Need less. Seriously! Nothing knocks you off frame more than feeling on the cusp of losing something you believe you need. Whether that be a woman, a job, a car, health insurance, a home, whatever. Nowadays in America, you can have all your actual needs met at an absolute pittance. If you take job, you make several times more than you genuinely need, regardless of how low paid it is. Save the remainder, so that you can afford to not work; for months on end, since you need basically nothing. Even amongst cohorts as universally spoiled as the Ivy grads comprising the Silicon Valley startup scene; the ones who can maintain the frame long enough to maximize chances of being successful, are the ones capable of drastically lower burn rates than a burger flipper job. And once you no longer “need” to be in “America’s most expensive neighborhood”, but can instead be anywhere; the “need” to make rent pretty much evaporizes as a reason to take any job paying more than selling three t shirts a month online.
      If you, in addition, is confident in your abilities to diagnose and fix motor vehicles; you can pick those up for free fro people who simply wants them off their driveways. And if you know some basic electrician, plumbing and woodworking/construction skills; you don’t have to deal with anyone. Throw in some survivalist skills, and you really don’t have to deal.
      While you may not want to just disappear into the Idaho wilderness per se; the confidence to know that whatever happens, you’ll be basically OK; renders a huge boost to frame control. In any situation, you ca always one up anyone by simply being willing to go further; because you’re not afraid of playing for broke the way everyone else, who have to worry about their mortgage, their petty job and their health insurance, is. To him, losing his $5K a month job means being reduced to begging and borrowing; while you can live indefinitely on $5 a day; running a startup until it starts paying off; then starting to live large only when doing so poses no real threat to your future. And even if it all does go to hell; you’ll still be fine, even in the Idaho wilderness.

      1. Very true.
         This is actually a deep concept. Things, items, and matter carry their own energies. Being surrounded by too many “things” can actually drain you of your own powers.
         This was one reason why the ancient Neoplatonists considered matter to be “evil”, in the sense that it was the lowest in the chain of existence from the One, to Intellect, and finally to Soul.

   9. I think that frame can also be thought of in terms of providing leadership. If you provide leadership, you have a vision of how things should be, then you influence other people to do what it takes to make the vision a reality. The key with leadership is that it should benefit your followers as well as yourself. The world is full of people too timid and uncertain to step up and say what needs to happen.
      Leadership can be as simple as having your girl chop up the veggies for a salad, while you grill some chicken. You set the agenda, you assign tasks for the others, then the result ( a tasty dinner) benefits everyone. You may think a dinner is too simple, and anyone could have figured out what needs to be done. However, when you decide what should be done, and lead the others to carry out your vision, then you are controlling the frame.
      When you meet a new girl, and start talking to her, you have a vision of getting friendly with her, then escalating to sex. You attempt to lead her into a conversation with good rapport and comfort, then you lead her into becoming physical with kino, then you suggest a venue change, and finally you lead her to a private setting and lead her into sex. If she won’t follow your leadership at any point, you end the set and try the next girl.
      In every situation in life, you can control the frame by thinking up a vision of what needs to happen, then lead the people around you into making it happen. That guy who’s the life of the party; he’s leading everybody into establishing a fun mood.
      If you want to build a strong frame, practice leading. Work to establish the frame of mind of creating a vision of a good outcome in every situation from the profound to the trivial, and lead the people around you every time.

   10. There is a more specific answer for you.
       manhood101.com
       These are the nuts and bolts you requested.

3. Outcome independence plays a large role in maintaining frame. This means making decisions and accepting the consequences, such as being willing to walk away when a girl becomes more trouble than she is worth, negotiating pay rises etc at work.
   To achieve that outcome independence you have to put yourself to the test – say no more often, don’t try to please everyone and, most importantly, be a man with a plan.

   1. Absolutely. There is a book called The Poker Mindset that explores in depth outcome independence as it relates to the game of poker but is also very applicable to life in general. Supreme Confindence comes from TRULY not giving a shit about the outcome of a particular event (say a hand) because we have certainty in our long term prospects, same with women -same with work.

   2. It’s called Free Will, everyone has it and should exercise it…

4. “You have power over your mind – not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.”
   ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
   This quote gentlemen, is everything you need to know about frame control. Whether its your boss, the weather, women, your friends etc.

   1. I’ve got a few more good ones myself:
      “First of all, I do not want you to give in to the pressure of this
      moment. Whenever you’re hurting bad, just hang in there. Finish the day.
      Then, if you’re still feeling bad, think about it long and hard before
      you decide to quit. Second, take it one day at a time. One evolution at a
      time.
      Don’t let your thoughts run away with you, don’t start planning to
      bail out because you’re worried about the future and how much you can
      take. Don’t look ahead to the pain. Just get through the day, and
      there’s a wonderful career ahead of you.” – Vice Admiral Joe Maguire, SPECWARCOM, Lone Survivor
      “I later learned that when a man quits and is given another chance
      and takes it, he never makes it through. All the instructors know that.
      If the thought of DOR enters a man’s head, he is not a Navy SEAL.
      I guess that element of doubt forever pollutes his mind. And
      puffing, sweating, and steaming down there on that beach on the first
      night of Hell Week, I understood it.
      I understood it, because that thought could never have occurred to
      me. Not while the sun still rises in the east. All the pain in Coronado
      could not have inserted that poison into my mind. I might have passed
      out, had a heart attack, or been shot before a firing squad. But I never
      would have quit.” (pg 136-7) – Marcus Luttrell, Lone Survivor
      “There is little that can withstand a man who can conquer himself.” – Louis XIV
      “Time, action itself, and the aid of heaven usually break a thousand
      paths and uncover a thousand unexpected solutions.” – Louis XIV
      I should really gather a whole page of great quotes. What I really like about quotes is that they can convey loads of wisdom in a very short amount of space.

      1. “I do not know how to defeat my enemies, I only know how to defeat myself” – Yagyu Munenori

   2. Agreed we have the power over our minds but COLLECTIVELY we can change the world if we live according to Natural Laws. Pass this on to any Police officers. They need to know this.

   3. YOU, are NOT your mind.

5. This is the best

6. “Maintaining frame is nearly impossible without a unifying worldview, a philosophy of life, or a vision.”
   This.
   Great Article

7. Fantastic article. This is what keeps me coming back to RoK, wisdom and advice on masculinity. The occasional practical article on game is informative and the rare satire is fun, but these pieces are what attract and keep viewership in my opinion. As an 18 year old who is a freshman in college, I often have broad concepts or ideas about life that I have difficulty refining and describing. Articles like this one put words to my thoughts and boil down my gut feelings to logical and rational forms that are concentrated and potent. You have my gratitude.

8. Control of the frame goes to whoever believes in the truth of *their* frame the most. If you waver in that belief, if it doesn’t run through to your very core, it gets telegraphed in your behavior. A flinch here; a break-away with downcast eyes there. And you concede the frame.
   I’m not sure how to acquire that truth in the first place though. It’s a belief that grows from experience. .

   1. Truth (objectivity and subjectivity aside) is aquired primarily by the scientific method. However, we can’t conduct a thorough scientific investigation of every little thing we come across in life, so there are different levels of investigation required for pieces of “truths in question” which we come across daily, that of which is based on the importance of the matter at hand.
      For example, I wonder if the modern view of human evolution is really true. I don’t have the necessary time, passion, or materials to conduct a thorough scientific research plan, so it would be out of the question to do so. It would be more reasonable then to read from authors who share their own opinions and hopefully present their own evidence on the matter, derived from their own research laboratories.
      True, in this example, you cannot say you are 100% sure in the conclusion you’ve come up with because in the end, you are not doing your own unbiased, cutting-edge research. But the degree of which this matters is reflected by the degree in which it truly matters to you whether humans were derived from evolutionary processes or by God’s hand. For example, putting food in your mouth and going to work might be more important than reading a bunch of human evolution textbooks.

      1. To be clear, I’m not talking about scientific truth or epistemology. I’m simply talking about the kind of truth that tells you, say,… when your wife breaks off right at the start of sex and starts to give you a list of home repair to-do items around the house (which my wife tried to do to me the other week, wtf!)… the “true” issue isn’t the list of repair items. Not at all. Not even if she insists upon them. The true issue here is that her insecurity flared up and she’s throwing you a shit test of the most annoying kind. Your stronger frame and knowledge of this truth tells you it’s all mere LMR, to not take it personally (not for a second), and either tease her about it (hand her a book on home repair) or pick-up your laptop and get something else done. (Sorry if that was an odd example but I’m still laughing about it and had to share)!

9. Great article, and I’ll read it again and again to let it sink in.
   Interesting how keeping one’s emotions under control is interrelated with frame control.
   Seems so hard to practice it but it helps to hear from a man with experience that even he struggles with it and that it requires dedication.
   I try to never leave the house without remembering “maintain your frame” and “women are going to test you.” Seems to take a lot of effort to not fall back into old habits, however.
   Thanks for the great contribution-it’s one reason I was motivated to contribute as well.

   1. Women will test you, as will the world at large, as I’m certain you know. Some newly minted red pillers think shit tests only come from girls, but they in fact come from the entire feminized world these days. If it’s not your current gf/wife giving you shit, it’s a boatload of pro-feminist messages on the movie screen or headline news screeching at you to defy them. Hell, modern feminism is a societal level shit test.
      Frame control is absolutely essential, no question.

      1. Interesting points. I’m going to think about that.

10. Nice. I wonder who had better frame….the kitty cat or the German Shepherds? I’ll add another thing that has helped me maintain frame and masculinity….which kind of goes into Taoism. Semen retention…..more importantly not masturbating. Most importantly….not masturbating to porn. If we retain our semen and reserve it only for women….we will be soooooo much more masculine. You will be so much more confident and hence able to maintain your frame. When you spill your seed needlessly you are spilling your very life essence. The ancients said one drop of semen was equal to something like 60 ounces of blood in terms of life essence. They called ejaculation the “mini death” because in essence men die a bit when they ejaculate. Again, I’m not saying don’t come with your women during sex…it’s just that needless masturbation ( especially to porn ) will cause one to lose their masculinity and male aggression….at least for a few days until it rebuilds. Losing this leads to losing the ability to keep one’s frame. A bit of a semi-gross subject …..yes, but one I’m sure men can attest to based on their own experiences in this area. Since I cut my masturbation down significantly, I ooze more masculinity and respect.

    1. That will take a lot of will power – no-one wants it backing up into the eyeballs – but the principle is absolutely right. When the almighty struck down Onan for spilling his seed he was probably anticipating what would happen to men and masculinity the moment internet porn came on the scene. Everything in our culture is absolutely masturbatory. Most of the time porn isn’t even about straight sex. The world is fetishized and we spill our seed in and on everything but the thing it was designed for. The consequence is the value of seed plummets on the international markets with every day that passes (yes, literally, for all I know). Oh, the individual alpha’s seed remains in demand, but the value of seed in general has depreciated with our descent into masturbatory excess, with the infinite corrupt post-modern deferral of the actual sexual aim all of us were born with. When the feminists say men should make a fist that’s what they mean. Masturbate in lieu of real sex with real women. We’re supposed to be fine with that. That’s why feminism tries to close off every avenue for men that leads to sex. It seeks to limit or destroy our bargaining power. It seeks to label every aspect of consensual male sexuality as abuse or exploitation all with the grand design that we should be reduced to shuddering jizz machines milking our balls of our life essence and becoming mere husks of actual men, shadows of what we once were. Look at the jap porn phenomenon of bukkake, with pointless little men all spilling their tiny beanz over a single ridiculously overvalued and fetichized anime doll. If you were to put a market value on each and every sticky fluid ounze of goo in one of those movies what would it be? This is sperm as poison, when it should be the fountain of life.

11. You know, I’m also reminded now of that entry I wrote about Charles I’s execution a couple of months ago.
    THAT is the ultimate example of frame control that I can think of, which is why I’m so drawn to that story, Charles’ unwise actions leading up to it aside.

    1. it was more than unwise actions though. Charles I’s suffered probably the worst case of oneitis in history. He put his besottedness with henrietta Maria before his own country and then completely misread the political situation time and time again. Not very red-pill really.

12. “Mastery of one’s own mind is the noblest of pursuits, the most trying of tasks”

13. Good post. I have a shit ton of work to do so I cannot comment as much as I like but when I drop by RoK it is good to see that the movement is still on. Solid post.

14. ROK writers, this isn’t a direct response to this post. But PLEASE, one of you write a response to this majestic hamster from Elite Daily on Marriage. The writer constantly receives flak for the crap that she writes and peddles for the feminists.
    http://elitedaily.com/women/why-were-never-getting-married-and-why-were-okay-with-it/

    1. Gurney,
       thank you very much for the link….that hamster is moving at supersonic speeds! I had a good laugh over the article.

       1. Peter, no problem, I think she is the reason i stopped taking Elitedaily seriously. The comments below her posts are always good for a laugh.
          Side note, have heard some of your Red Pill material, very interesting (most of the time)
          Gurney, fellow Aussie.

          1. Well Gurney,
             did you see I am the only man in the world to record a family court matter? This is me in the Australian Federal Magistrates Court on 2009-11-26. And men in Australia STILL question my honesty and integrity. No one else has done this since.
             If you watch the last piece you will see David Dunkley refuse to answer the question as to whether he is serving under oath thereby committing the crime of impersonating a public officer.
             We are using this video as the basis to remove all members of both houses of parliament. We could do with more men being willing to help. Men who stay hidden and just keep an eye on CAF for instructions on what to do.
             http://kickass.to/z01-my-court-meeting-2009-11-26-with-captions-t8040023.html

          2. PS. By the way? There is still no man in Adelaide even with the guts to go check on my pal and find out if he is ok. This has led to the claim that it is now lawful to conduct political assassinations in Australia. I made that claim in my own name in the public to 400+ Australian politicians and media people.
             Things are getting serious in Australia now. The Ukraine is not the only place where civil war is close. Social unrest and even civil war is being fomented in Australia too.
             http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Cases/tabid/421/forumid/469/threadid/7684/scope/posts/Default.aspx

          3. LOL! Anyone carried out any “acts of war” on your say so yet?

          4. Yeah, great result, and a great example for other MEN to follow! You made a fool of yourself and got your arse kicked …

          5. Hi Michael Toal,
             We all know the tag line “this is what a feminist looks like”.
             This is what an adulteress, prostitute, criminal, child abusing woman who committed the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion, theft and child abuse in divorce looks like. And I am going to keep posting her name, Jennifer Toal, her fathers phone and email, Bill Toal +61 2 69 25 40 41, [email protected], his address is in CAF…..until such time as Jennifer and the criminals in the Toal family are brought to justice.
             http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/Portals/1/Jennifer%20Toal%20-%20Criminal%202.jpg

15. Thank you for this excellent, inspiring article!

16. Excellent article. Frame is difficult to explain to someone who doesn’t get it, but once it clicks, you see everything more clearly.

17. Awesome article, Quintus .. inspiring as always.

18. If every other article on this website disappears it won’t be as much of a loss as this particular one.The matter in this article is eternal and universal;it is applicable to a man regardless of his age,his period of existence,or his country of residence.
    Quintus,it is immaterial if many kids come and have excuses about not being able to imbibe this ‘Frame control’,since that is what they will always remain:kids.They do not seek to understand,they crave ready made answers.
    I personally have already embarked on this journey,so this article is not a revelation to me,BUT it works as an affirmation and when it will be the article I cite to other men who are ready to to embark on their own journey of conquering the thing worth worthy in life:themselves.

19. I don’t want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me.

20. I´ve been wanting to write a comment for this article and now that I finally have some time and have organized my thoughs to some extent I´m ready to give a humble contribution.
    It´s interesting how the study and practice of game begins from changing external traits (clothing, posture, tone of voice, the learning of openers and conversational threads) and eventually leads to something much more profound, which deals mainly with the pursuit and cultivation of masculine values and ultimately to that of one´s dignity and inner self.
    I´ve found that after some time this kind of knowledge makes one humble, in the sense that one learns his own limitations and reaches the conclusion that all one can do is act like a man. In other words, you can fight the battle like a good warrior, but victory doesn´t depend on you alone.
    Over time, I observed that it is impossible for me- or for anyone else for that matter- to be successful with all types of girls. Each man has a specific type of girl with whom he gets along better.
    Each of us do better in a specific type of environment.
    Even after cultivating oneself physically, mentally and spiritually, success is not guaranteed.
    Having sex with sluts becomes tiresome, meaningless and degrading and one naturally starts wanting women of higher quality who hold values that are compatible with the ones of a man who has forged himself.
    Sure, when you´re a college kid sleeping with drunken sluts sounds fun, but it gets old fast and you see that these affairs only bring you down, apart from being time consuming and draining money and energy.
    My experience nowdays is that it´s best to be true to oneself even when it comes to game. By this I mean it´s preferrable to go after the women one really wants rather than settling for those of low value; it´s better to go out alone to a place that is congruent with oneself rather than follow the crowd to whatever spot is popular at the moment; to walk away rather than accept disrespect from a girl just to get laid.
    After a while it stops being about the sex and it becomes all about oneself.

    1. Frame control means you make those around you confirm to your values. Frame control is the defining characteristic of a ‘leader’. It is not about alpha or Beta, it is about being a leader or a follower. Alpha simulation is just a hollow shell to trick girls into fucking you, being a leader means women cannot help but follow your guidance.

    2. Bra. Fucking. Vo. !

21. Coming back to this a year later has really boosted my resolve. Another timeless classic from the likes of Quintus Curtius.

22. I love this post!

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