A Short History On The Masculinity Of Fighting

Ever wonder where the great legal tradition of the West came from? Lots of reasons for it. But one of the main drivers of the use of lawyers and courts and the cause of our over-legislated modern culture was a civic campaign to cut down on urban disturbances, and public brawls.

Back in the day, even noblemen settled their disagreements with fist fights or duels. Get the stereotype of the foppish wig-wearing “gentlemen” out of your head, your ancestors would throw down often and over just about anything. Disagreements were settled in the streets. Here’s what wikipedia has to say on the subject:

In Western society, the formal concept of a duel developed out of the mediaeva ljudicial duel and older pre-Christian practices such as the Viking Ageholmgang. Judicial duels were deprecated by the Lateran Council of 1215. However,  in spite of Church disapproval, there were nevertheless seven capital crimes that were still commonly accepted as resolvable by means of a judicial duel. Most societies did not condemn dueling, and the victor of a duel was regarded not as a murderer but as a hero; in fact, his social status often increased. During the early Renaissance, dueling established the status of a respectable gentleman, and was an accepted manner to resolve disputes. Dueling in such societies was seen as an alternative to less regulated conflict.

The process of gentile-ization came hand in hand with attempts to curb excessive blood-letting in European cultures. The war-like tendencies of almost all European peoples however, were also tied up with their understanding of masculinity.

elkfighting

Men were expected to fight to earn their keep, win renown, and of course to secure a mate. The nobility of Europe was founded on the warrior class, unlike in other places such as China, or India, or South America, that all had priest-led societies. Some more history:

During the reign of Henry IV, over 4,000 French aristocrats were killed in duels “in an eighteen-year period” whilst a twenty-year period of Louis XIII‘s reign saw some eight thousand pardons for “murders associated with duels”. Roth also notes that thousands of men in the Southern United States “died protecting what they believed to be their honour.”

There you go. This doesn’t even mention the number of your run-of-the-mill fist fights. Governments had to work hard to promote new mores and laws to stop the fighting, working hand in hand with the clergy to promote the central authorities as the sole arbiters of conflict. It took several millenia to stamp out the blood-thirst that our ancestors had, to get rid of that red-blooded craving of Western males to dominate and fight.

Forget your “guns, germs and steel” explanation, the West became what it is at the tip of a bayonet. This was all done of course, with practical considerations in mind as well as religious ones. Losing 4,000 of your nobles to duels is a staggering statistic, and rising nation-states as well as absolute monarchies had a practical reason from the position of strong state-craft to begin reining in this pagan holdover tradition.

masculine_news

Still, I always wonder. Will any of us ever experience something this profoundly masculine ever again? Some will say it was a grotesque tradition. I say that it was a life-affirming one. Others, that all human life is sacred and these acts of killing were wrong. I reply that this thinking stems from a fear of death and a view of death as the absolute terror, when in fact there are far worse things that can befall you.

Warrior based-societies lived closer to death than we ever will, and so had a deeper understanding of it than we ever will, hidden as we are behind the safe veil of secular humanism.

I am not advocating for the wanton death and destruction that characterized so much of our collective human history. All I ask, is that we consider whether getting a black eye from time to time is really such a scary possibility that we had to spend the better part of the last century insulating ourselves from all the harsh realities of the world.

This is dangerous because our children increasingly do not what it means to fight. When they grow up, they will move from one safe white neighborhood to another, go to university with other bubble-wrapped children, and move into safe gated communities after they get that promotion. Their disputes are handled by the courts.

Their security is handled by an increasingly bigger and more heavily armed police force. Their wars are fought for them by legions of underclass contractors, and now by autonomous flying killing robots. The attitude that fighting is wrong, in and of itself has now been wired into the brain of almost every white westerner I’ve ever met. Like Jack answers in that iconic scene from Fight Club:

Tyler: Have you ever been in a fight?

Jack: No, but that’s a good thing.

Brad-Pitt-fight-club-body2

It is almost a badge of honor to have never been in a fight. Even though deep down we know this is not true. As men, we crave the feeling of power, of knowing that we can handle ourselves when shit goes down. Often times, we fear that we can’t and so with a little mental acrobatics we convince ourselves that our cowardice is in fact a virtue. “Real men don’t have to fight,” or some similar drivel.

Here’s a newsflash: real men don’t wear pink, real men don’t make crying displays of being in touch with their feelings, and real men don’t run from a fight.

By all means, take the advice of literally every person who has ever been in a fight, ever, and be smart about it. Don’t pick bad fights. Don’t get yourself killed over a girl. Don’t talk big and then not back it up. But also, don’t be so fucking afraid of standing up for yourself. Getting in a fight has real-world consequences, everyone knows this, in fact everything is geared to punish you if you do end up in one. You, dear reader, surely realize this as well as I realize it.

And yet, it is a profoundly religious experience. The feelings you feel while in a fight are nauseating, but after the fight, you feel so alive. You want to cry, to shout, to laugh, to eagerly inspect your body for bruises…

Try it at least once in your life.

Read More: Fighting Another Man Could Change Your Life

225 thoughts on “A Short History On The Masculinity Of Fighting”

  1. The last time i was in a fight i was a freshman in high school. So dumb black kid tried to steal something from me. I remember only throwing a punch and then a elbow and the fight was basically broken up and over. I never felt such a rush before in my entire life. After that when we were on our way to lunch every girl(and dude) and classroom was asking me if i was okay. I was wondering why they were asking me that when nothing was wrong with me or hurt. while they were ignoring the kid who just got his left eye blacken and swollen. The conclusion i came to later on was that they(they girls) just wanted to be around me since i just won a fight and appeared ultra masculine in that moment. I remember at least one of them ask me to meet up with her after school. lol.

    1. Fighting, justifiably, is one of the best ways to increase your social status. It forces people to respect you. Respect = status. The quickest way to get someone’s respect, when they do not respect you, is a punch to the face. Unfortunately, that’s the only thing some people understand. Fighting, just to bully and cause drama, is a way to make people hate you. You’ve gotta be justified. Women get turned on when they see a man fight. It makes the brain immediately pump blood to the clitoris.

  2. Before you fight, learn how to fight. Being strong, fast, able to take a punch and knowledgeable about self defence are all good things.

  3. I think Fighting should be Legal, Nothing worse than someone Running their mouth knowing you can’t touch em. Making Fights Legal would Make all the Punks who are all talk, think twice about opening their mouths.

  4. There is no worse attribute than proclivity to fisticuffs. As an adult, there are virtually no situations where you need to fight. The repercussions, both legal and physical, make fighting as an adult a loser’s errand.

    1. I have some background in Tea Kwon Do and I Strength train so for 90% of the Assholes out their I just roll my eyes when they get all Huffy Puffy, but there is a Unique Asshole out there who only learns the Hard way, if someone is bothering Me i’ll ask them to stop, and if they continue i’ll call em out on it or ask them to step outside, I remember a Kid back in Middle school was picking on me a lot, finally one day I said let’s take it outside after school, all day he was picking on me in front of Girls and his friends saying “Oh so you want to fight me huh good luck” and Laughing, well at the end of the day I went up to him and said Ok are you ready, and he went pale and said “oh well my parents will get mad if i get in trouble”, never had a problem from him again.

      1. Yes.
        And the same goes for friends and family who occasionally think you’re their plaything. They should never mistake kindness for weakness.
        My dad, I think, only began to respect me after I stood up to his bullying and challenged him to a boxing match with the expressed intent of knocking his lights out. After he made some snide jokes in response, he got cold when he realized that I was serious and we’ve become pretty damn good friends since then.
        One of my better friends in high school once caused me some physical harm, after which I told him that he would get ten punches for the balancing. During lunch a few hours later, I remarked how I owed him ten punches, whereby he presented his arm and I unloaded seven punches.
        I stopped at seven because it was clear that it was causing a tremendous amount of pain and the repetitive pounding became tiresome. He teared up a bit and was shaking from the pain/adrenaline, but otherwise he took it well. I told him that I still owed him three. At the end of the day I came to him and told him that it was time, and he presented his arm again for the final three. I think those last three hurt me more than him. He was a good friend.

  5. Those were the good old days. Back then if a man called you a liar you could challenge him to a dual and shoot his ass. Kept people more respectful and not so quick to spout off shit.
    Btw, an armed populus is safer and that would apply today as well.

    1. Much agreed, I say all the time that our society needs to live under what I call “Prison Rules”, for those that have been in a cage you will understand. In the joint if someone speaks to you in an obvious disparaging way with malice intent you MUST Handle that or forever be known as a victim, and you will be reminded of it often. BUT if you are a Stand-Up man and will stand up for yourself win/lose or draw you will be RESPECTED! Period. On the flip side of this most max joints are some of the most polite and respectful places you will ever encounter, there are more Please, Thank-you, Pardon-me and excuse me’s then you could believe as cons know that you better mind your P’s & Q’s or get your shit split quickly.
      If our society could self regulate out here again like that this would be a much better place for all. Just my 2c ~ YMMV

      1. That only applies to the bigs and connected. The punks and bitches are always meat, and you know it damned well, no matter how well they fight.

        1. I dunno. I mean the REAL ones sure aren’t, but a badass that just happens to be under a nickel isn’t neccessarily a born punk. Their lack of stature often keeps them from doing things that land them in lockup, though.

        1. “Only” if you catch a new charge, but more often than not, NO. Also it depends upon ‘if’ you get caught fighting, lots of dark non-camera monitored corners inside the wall. 🙂

      2. I think it is a little different outside of prison. In the street if someone insults you, you have the option of walking away and never seeing him again. I think you have to size up the situation on a case by case basis.
        If I were to “handle” my boss when he steps out of line, at best I would be looking for a new job!

    2. I think duels should be legal, however, they should only be fought with 15 pound sledgehammers or bare fists.

      1. Fuck It! THUNDERDOME dude! Two men enter one man leaves! AARRRGGGHH!!!! I just felt my testosterone shoot up 20 points!

        1. Oh thank Hell the new one is rated R to get the taste of that overlong Tina Turner music video out of mouth, finally!

        2. wanna feel it shoot up even more? Go to a gym (not a health club) someplace with a boxing or wrestling ring. fight someone.
          I bet you will feel way better.

        3. Sorry bro, THUNDERDOME is not about fighting. IT’S ABOUT KILLING!!! “Defeating” someone in “the ring” is not the same as hanging their scalp from your lodge pole, raping their daughters, castrating their sons, turning their wives into serving wenches and drinking strawberry mead from their skull.

        1. Ah sorry. And a fight isn’t a fight unless someone gets their spine ripped out through their throat.

    3. That’s how gentlemen were made
      Now we got a bunch of prattling clowns that act up whenever they want. What’s interesting is that bullies are more likely to arise in a peace seeking society because they can act up without getting shot in the head.

  6. In my rather short experience of life, I have been in two real fights, excluding the various scraps with my collection of siblings. The first was in elementary school, in which I found myself outnumbered and promptly ended matters with a chunk of broken concrete. The second was a freshman in high school, when an upper classmen tried to establish his place and I beat him upside the head with the door of my locker. I’ve found found that fighting remains the pinnacle of masculine expression, and earns you an incredible amount of respect in that, if you fight once and show no fear, you may never have to fight a second time. Nobody messes with the crazy guy.

    1. I was at the opposite extreme. Through school I was a pacifist… You know, that gigantic, muscular pacifist that everyone seemed to pick on because he never fights back for worry of being labelled a ‘bully’.
      All my teachers, my parents, guidance councellors, they all preached the path of non-resistance. and I was foolish enough to listen.
      Until a coach in Junior high finally looked at me in disgust and said “You are like twice the size of those little fuckers! Why do you let them treat you like that? Beat the shit out of a few of them and the rest will leave you alone!”
      It worked. And I found I really, really enjoyed fighting… even when I lose (Not often, I had a golden gloves vegas ex-boxer on my first ship in the Navy, and he taught me through 3 deployments.)

    1. Smart man. In today’s world we have to add Game to that list. I’d also include, dress himself, but that’s just me.

    2. And all good men know you only need three things to fix shit: pliers, WD-40, and duct tape. Use the duct tape if it moves and it shouldn’t; use the WD-40 if it should move and it doesn’t.

      1. “Use the duct tape if it moves and it shouldn’t; use the WD-40 if it should move and it doesn’t.” ~ and use the pliers to break the knuckles of the son of a bitch who sold you the piece of shit if it simply cannot be fixed. The duct tape also comes in handy when you ball up your dirty underwear and tape it in their mouth to muffle the screams…

      2. I love duct tape. Carry it in my survival kit. I’m guessing it also works well with Social Justice types but I’ve yet to experiment with that notion :p

      1. I would add “car” to that. My car got fucked with ten years ago and I am still looking for those fucking arseholes.

        1. only a coward or a woman would fuck with a man’s car.
          <– had my tires slit once by a jealous beta.

    3. the problem today is the fear of becoming entangled in the system, with police, court dates, punitive punishments and the long winded process, not to mention the criminal record, that can spoil employment and economic prospects…. you might not get 10 years for a basic assault, but you’d be better off doing armed robbery, because some silly fist fight might just cost you 10 years of low level social pain, and once in that web, all kinds of tangents can spin off and create even more trouble……..
      i’ve had a few violent confrontations and always noticed that the other man was not held back by is fear of me, or his fear of his abilities, but by fear that he is ‘not supposed’ to be doing this…. that he might bring a shit ton of legal trouble on his head….

      1. No kidding. Now, if two 8 year old boys get in fight in grammar school, they’re both arrested (regarless if self defense) and charged with assault and put into the juvenile court system.

      2. You make some good points.
        I read a story of a bouncer working in a strip club who broke a guy’s face (he was deserving, of course, out of control) and ended up in civil court over it and had to pay up a lot of &&.
        This a real concern these days. Unless you can fight someone, whip there ass, and get out of there anonymously, the last resort to a coward is to drag you into court, contact your employer, and publicly shame you even if you were in the right.
        Hearing these horror stories of what happens when these kinds of “men” get their asses handed to them makes me think one has to be very careful how they handle a fight.
        Food for thought.

        1. exactly. i’ve always backed out of conflicts in the US for exactly this reason. it’s just not worth it unless there’s absolultely no way out.
          my only real fight as an adult was in ukraine. couldn’t have backed out of that one if i’d wanted to (got jumped by some drunken russians who didn’t like an american talking to the local girls). was fortunately able to leave the main agressor with his face all bloody, hopefully with some permanent scars, while my ukrainian buddy fought off the other guys, all with little worry about legal ramifications because that’s how it works in the FSU.

  7. This article is largely nonsense, but here is my take on things.
    .
    When I was whelp I went crying to my mother: “He pushed me down and took my toy!” She told me: “push him down and take your toy back!” I can barely remember this as it was 45 years ago but fuck me if that was not my first red pill experience.
    .
    I was a skinny kid who got picked on a lot. Towards the end of high school I joined the military and studied martial arts. I have never had a fight in my adult life. I know when to walk away if it is not worth it and I know how to stare down cowards. All very Karate Kid: “I want to learn how to fight so I don’t have to”.
    .
    Anyone who wants to use the term “man” should be familiar with three combat systems. First is pistols. I am a Canadian living in China so I can’t put this into practice but you should be able to prepare, load and deploy a pistol in your own defence or in defence of your loved ones.
    .
    Second is armed combat. My personal recommendations are epee or arnis. YMMV but the idea is that you can pick up a stick and beat the fuck out of anyone who crosses you.
    .
    Third is unarmed combat. My selection is a form of stand-up jujitsu. There is so much shit out there, I can’t begin to list it off. If someone messes with you then grab them, break something and then move on. You can’t drop to the ground under any circumstances. You can’t waste time with fancy kicks. “Economy” is the word of the day.

    1. I think the author agrees with you and you with him. He is pro fighting. Would add: Krav Maga ( or other combative systems)
      Muy Thai for punching, kicking, striking, elbows
      “Stand Up Jujitsu ” you referred to is the original Japanese Jujitsu. The Brazilians brought jujitsu to the ground

      1. Krav Maga rocks, what can I say. Muay Thai is effective but messy. I’ve done TKD, various forms of karate, taijitsu, western fencing, bayonet fighting and a bunch of other stuff. Never seriously did kung fu but I read up on chin na techniques. When I lived in Vancouver I had an awesome jujitsu instructor. That opened my eyes to what works and what doesn’t.
        .
        BJJ is great if you are one-on-one and the other guy has no friends to come to his aid and he doesn’t pull a shank on you. The prevailing wisdom is that if you want to do MMA then do muay thai and BJJ. My concerns are more street-practical so I don’t buy into this.

        1. I did judo for several years. It gave me a sense of movement and a good ground game. However, you don’t really learn how to fight until you get brown belt or higher. In the end, judo is jujitsu stripped of its lethal components. I have not studied boxing but there is little debate that it is effective in real time.

        2. “Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily
          defeat a martial artist of twenty years experience.” –Bruce Lee
          Not 100% sure that it can be attributed to him, but there you have it.

        3. Teeth, blood, broken bones. With jujitsu you can snap something so they will fuck off, or else choke them out. Muay thai finishing moves can make a guy like me wince on occasion.

        4. Jeet kun do is derived from selected boxing techniques and – surprisingly – from western epee fencing. If you know how to deliver a proper straight lead, you will ruin their day.
          .
          http://www.amazon.com/The-Straight-Lead-Core-Bruce/dp/0804836302
          .
          That’s right bitches: a whole book about one punch! (written by a little girl, no less).
          .
          李小龙 has a lot of nifty aphorisms but I think you have taken that one out of context. A trained boxer and wrestler will be a force to be reckoned with but that is largely because of their musculature rather than their combat technique. There are a few core techniques in boxing and wrestling gives you a good base but they are not particularly good in a street fight.

        5. Double elbow strikes to your skull goes way beyond “concussion”. The shin kicks completely mess with your legs, ribs, arms or head.

        6. The point is, the chances are you will make a full recovery. Not necessarily if you blow out your knee.
          I have taken all of those blows by the way. Not fun.
          Frankly, I am not concerned with the repercussions for anyone that attacks me in the street. On the flip-side, I do my utmost to avoid physical confrontation.

        7. Soft tissue damage is a bitch. Not in combat, but I have broken bones and taken a few concussions. They all healed. When I was a lawyer I mostly did divorce work but I also did some personal injury litigation. Ligament, tendon and spinal injuries just don’t go away.

        8. Don’t I know it. Just about every injury I have had is ligament or tendon. They are extremely frustrating.

        9. Fucked up my shoulder ligament a year ago playing rugby and it still hasn’t healed right. I can’t put pressure on it and don’t have the same ROM as I used to. At 19 this shouldn’t happen.

        10. These are my two mainstays (along with folk wrestling, which blends well with judo). I’m too bulky and uncoordinated for a kicking game and would only kick below the waist if I had to anyway so I don’t train Muay Thai much but I know it’s effective. I just don’t have much ability for it.

        11. You can unleash deadly O-Soto Gari’s in street fights all day without the gi. O-Goshi, Koshi Guruma and Ura Nage (just make sure there’s nothing around for you yourself to crash into!) are easy to pull off as well.

        12. Honestly in a street fight you probably wouldn’t want to kick or knee higher than your waist anyway. I would favour knees and elbows in any confrontation. If your opponent is too tall for a knee to the face, a knee to the stomach will help him bend over.

        13. If you can learn to effectively Muay Thai clinch you can deliver devastating knees to the face. A Muay Thai push kick to the stomach or balls will inevitably cause him to hunch over and clutch his gut or balls (whichever you hit), thus leaving his head wide open for you.

        14. In competition I was a demon with tomo nage: half point, half point, boom, done.
          .
          For the street, I have a progressive response system in applying an outer reaping throw, one of the most flexible and effective techniques. In the most basic form you drop the guy and let them break fall. In its most extreme form you crush the knee, break the jaw and gouge the eyes. The latter would only be done when you are outnumbered and in fear for your life.

        15. Tomo-e Nage is a dirty one. I like it from a wrestling tie-up; really easy to nail someone smaller than you with.

        16. Just make sure you leave the area quickly or it’s a serious prison term. This has happened to friends of mine.

        17. I always had good legs so it worked on guys bigger than me. On people my same size I would shoulder throw their ass. Not an ippon seoinage, but where you get a hold the lapel and then put your elbow in their armpit as a lever. I remember the techniques but not the terms. I am such an eclectic at this point it all blurs together.

        18. While I agree in principle with the clinch knee to the face, in practice its a hard one to pull off with a struggling foe.

        19. Judo is a great work out but you need too much room to use it in fight. If I have to grapple then I would mostly use wrist/elbow/shoulder locks to toss the other guy around rather than the gross movements that judo requires. Kano stripped all of that stuff out of judo so that it would not be lethal.

      2. The Japanese (historically) thought that fighting on the ground was suicide.
        They also thought that grappling was only slightly better than suicide. These grappling arts developed very late in their history and were derived from sword techniques. The idea was if you got close to your enemy, you would attempt to unbalance him so you could split him down the middle with your nice sharp sword.

        1. I think you are largely correct. I learned a bunch of sword techniques that are completely banned from competition as they amount to grappling so that you can go all stabby on them.
          .
          Hell, look at Hamlet, Act V, when “they exchange swords”. Do you think that is just an accident or anarchic brawl like it is done in most movies? No, it was a specific manoeuver when you went corps-a-corps where you stripped your opponent’s weapon from their grasp. The only defense was for them to do the same to you, hence you exchange weapons. If you didn’t do that then the other guy ends up with both swords and much stabbing ensues.
          .
          I did fencing for a few years. I preferred epee because it is the closest to a duel. However, it is light years from an actual sword fight.

        2. I did Aikido for many years and practiced a lot of the sword techniques. One of the Sensei’s demonstrated a version of the sword grabbing technique. I can only imagine the dismay experienced by a Samurai in medieval Japan when his opponent nabbed his katana.

        3. I never practiced but I have read up on it and Stephen Segal – pre-2000 – kicked lots of ass. Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere. The unarmed techniques are largely based on sword techniques.
          .
          Morihei Ueshiba was a visionary but I could not buy into his pacifism.
          .
          Katana burglar, lol.

        4. Aikido is an old man’s martial art in my view (Morihei developed it when he was older). When he was younger he had no problems killing people.

        5. The Greeks were the same, homer lamented pankration having to much focus on the ground as competitions expanded, and the Spartans although masters refused to compete in the sport because of the focus on grappling

    1. Ahh, Shakespeare.
      Here’s some Pindar:
      “War is sweet to those who have not tried it. The experienced
      Man is frightened at the heart to see it advancing.”
      “Do not against all comers let break the word that is not needed.
      There are times when the way of silence is best; the word in its power can be the spur to battle.”

  8. People used to fight to protect their honor. Honor actually meant something to the people who fought, and who witnessed. Now we live in a society where you become a rich celebrity if you make a porn tape that happens to “leak” and are then willing to act quasi-retarded on TV. These are the people we look up to as honorable. Is it any wonder that we have lost our connection with violence?
    Though, paradoxically, this disconnect may be exactly what brings it roaring back. I certainly yearn to crack skulls whenever I see the cover of a tabloid.
    By the way, your last paragraph is true, and is exactly why I would join the military again, even knowing what I know now. I’ve been in my share of fistfights. Won some, lost others. Take the feeling after a fistfight, multiply by 1000, and that’s what I felt like after walking away from some rough firefights. It is the most alive I have ever felt.

  9. We have no honor. We expect forced apologies. We are all special snowflakes…a general we not anyone within earshot of here. We value having to struggle where success is met with derision. We have to show credentials of having 1/32 of a minority to be included with those who have struggled.
    I am unsure i could ever support the legalization of duels but a non-permanent equivalent is something we may need. Aaron Burr shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel because among other reasons he dishonored him by slamming his wife. Can anyone imagine anything equivalent happening today?
    Ohletsgetonfacebookortwitterandpostourhashtagtroubles.
    Yes, fight. Enjoy it. Dont need to be in a fight club but you should be able to fight for your own honor.

    1. I wrestled in school and used to put the cocky Karate guys and football jocks on their asses all the time. Usually woudn’t have to hurt them because they would become pretty docile after being wrestle fucked for 10 minutes.

  10. Every man needs to learn how to fight. Learn the art of boxing. Join a boxing gym, and compete as an amateur in the Golden Gloves and regional tournaments. Understand what it feels like to hit and get hit. I started boxing when I was an Infantryman in the Army. The surge in confidence you will experience is extraordinary. Learn boxing.

    1. I am a Barbed-Wire Belt in Bubba-Fu. It is a brutal martial art that takes minutes to learn and a lifetime to master. It basically involves throwing your opponent to the ground and stomping their face till they stop moving. Yep, Bubba-Fu. It’s undefeatable!

  11. Well you see, when you ban fighting or make it socially unacceptable you just drive it underground.
    No seriously, not just channeling Rothbard. When dueling or fighting was something men did it was likely less dangerous because responsible people were overseeing and willing to step in.

    1. And the combatants knew the rules. Like nothing below the belt and don’t wear brass knuckles.

  12. In modern times the notion has become popular that “violence is not the answer,” that violence is immoral, and that exposure of children to violent games or images is bad.
    This is a ridiculous notion; the truth is that violence is an inevitable aspect of the human condition, and it’s morality depends on it’s application. For example, criminal violence is generally immoral, whereas violence in self-defense is never immoral.
    A man does not shrink from violence, but rather embraces it as a tool which is at times necessary. It encourages me to see martial arts and other relatively violent sports becoming more popular these days, in spite of the massive blue-pill indoctrination being perpetrated by the system.

    1. I say this as a gun owner who has studied martial arts and even has a silver medal from a no gi grappling tournament. Maybe I have read too much sci fi but no violence is not inevitable and we have the ability to not perpetuate violence and acheive higher states of being. That’s what puts us above other animals and makes us special. Yes, it’s an idealistic notion and violence will still be required for now, but it is something we should strive for. We should not, however, accept violence as inevitable.

      1. Much can be said about Group A making demands on Group B, and Group B simply killing Group A.
        Violence is the answer, because democracy sure isn’t working.

      2. Disagree. Violence is not inevitable when everyone’s needs are met. I laugh when someone says, “I’d never harm anyone.” Bullshit. If the shit hit the fan and it came down to you or me you’d be surprised how quickly you could embrace violence. There’s nothing wrong with it, although there is a lot of peace propaganda out there. I consider few things more hypocritical than when the government tells you to not be violent, unless they want to send you around the planet to kill people for them, of course. That tells me that violence is neither good nor bad, it is simply a tool to enforce “order.”

        1. Well that’s kind of my point. We as a species should not accept violence as an inevitable part of being human and strive to meet everybody’s needs.

        2. A group of people might endeavor to reject violence as the inevitable part of being human but eventually that group of people will become the pushover doormat for every other group they came in contact with.
          When Roosevelt advocated “speak softly, and carry a big stick” , he certainly didn’t believe in rejecting violence in its entirety for he would have totally disbanded the US armed forces and scraped the 2nd amendment had he really rejected violence in its entirety.

        3. Everything is meant to enforce and create Order. But some ordered systems are chaotic in the long term. That’s when we call it “order”.

        4. I argue that violence is just another of those needs. The notion that people are only violent because they are unsatisfied is an ideology in my eyes.
          No, of course you don’t have to indulge in every whim all the time. But to eradicate violence is like to eradicate sex or to prohibit alcohol. It just makes it all look very dirty and people live in conflict with their own bodies.

        5. weak people want peace….. the only problem arises is when weak people are also highly intelligent people who can build new technologies and further everyone…. if the most intelligent nerds are always being picked on by the big stupid bullies, then we live in mad max’s world….

        6. It’s impossible to meet everyone’s needs. It’s projected that the population of Africa alone may hit 4 billion by the end of the century. Humanity is basically an invasive species. It is simply not possible to feed all of the mouths around the world in the long term. Natural resources on Earth are limited, and whomever controls those resources will be who thrives or survives. Competition for resources will ultimately result in war and violence. Peace is not our default state, war is the default state of humanity because Evolution favors conflict. It’s the natural and inevitable state of the universe. Those who sing Kumbaya will be selected against.

        7. That’s my point. The government enforces their will with violence both domestically and internationally, every day, yet we are told violence is “bad.” It’s obviously not that bad if it’s their modus operandi.

        8. I agree; the problem with a person’s “needs” being met, is that they still want more. We have evolved as a species to want more and more, regardless of what we already have, and since there are a limited amount of resources in the world, we will always come into conflict over the remaining ones.
          Society itself is based on the government committing violence via the military and police force in order to maintain peace, and the only reason most other people don’t also engage in violence is that the cons of it outweigh the pros.
          But when the government is gone, everyday “nonviolent” people come in to fill the vacuum. Just thing about what happened in Katrina with the looting.

        9. Its same with drugs. If the government gets its cut you can sell whatever drugs you like. Otherwise, you will be warming a prison cell.

        10. Peace is something we should strive for. But having the means & willingness to deliver decisive & violent action when necessary is also prudent.

        1. So kill all the boys, manginas and psychopaths to deliver ourselves from violence. Yes, if we could just preserve a narrow band of personality types and eliminate all the rest there would be no more envy or fighting. After we magically produce a fair production and delivery system of goods, services, and blowjobs. Simples.

        2. There will always be violence.
          “Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.” Blood Meridian – Cormac McCarthy.

        3. That is the basic problem with all social systems (like communism). There is a presumption of particular personality types that make the system work.
          .
          Come on guys, I am obviously overstating my case. Real men can talk shit out rather than fighting. In other circumstances there has to be socially acceptable rituals.
          .
          I was in the military. War blows dead goats. Nobody wants to go down that road. Meanwhile you have half-dicks who go all white knight and call out guys with pistols at dawn shit rhetoric to defend feminist cunts who are not worth defending.

        4. God I hope not! “National Feminist League” can go straight to Hell with it’s overpaid whiny schmucks and their White trash princess groupies!

  13. Really interesting. I agree we don’t want to go back there en masse but I wonder if this lack of living so close to death is why men more than women participate in extreme sports. Before modern medicine, pregnancy and childbirth were the extreme edges for women (mostly). I’d compare labour and the latter part of pregnancy to an extreme sport ;-). My sons both got into fights as teenagers and young men. Neither my husband or I freaked out and even the police (who got involved in one fight) were understanding up to a point. But sadly that isn’t the norm.

    1. While that isn’t that long ago, it is a life time ago in relation to the atrophied gender relations of today. Shameful but it is almost a memory in regards to people behaving autonomously towards a mutual good. Today there is so much strife over the poorly clarified equality argument of today.

    2. All sons want their fathers respect. I got my fathers respect in 3rd grade when I beat up a 5th grader who was making fun of my chest hair.

  14. I would rather settle a legal issue with a knife fight than go to court and get raped with attorney fees…

  15. The Code Duello (the standard dueling code of the 1600’s and 1700’s) was perhaps the best system of private dispute resolution contrived by mankind. In the system you would pick your advocate (your second), negotiate through them for a settlement, proceed through different phases, and it would only come to two men on the field of combat rarely. When that happened most men would discharge their firearms into the ground and consider the matter settled. No cops. No courts. Just men solving their own grievances.

  16. I was in an underground dojo in New York back in the day and it was like fight club only with better technique.
    We would stay up all night and drink till we were stupid and THEN train for three hours in the morning.
    Hey, who can prove you are always in your best condition when a fight breaks out?

    1. Some silly shits will say that “violence solves nothing”. No mates, violence solves a lot. Just keep in mind that might does not make right. . it enforces it.

  17. I underplayed it in my other posts but all men should own a sword and know how to use it. There are the practical aspects of understanding swordplay (Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do is based largely on the epee that I have studied) but there is also the cultural aspect. The sword has always been symbolic. A good sword can be an heirloom.

  18. I’ve always found entering the dragon a rush, not nauseating. Especially if you have a very strong desire to hurt and humiliate the other party.

  19. No man on earth has ever NOT benefited from a damn good ass-kicking. Just as long as you can walk away from it and learn.
    Sadly the thug scumbag mentality for fights now is that you should then have your head stomped into a coma or death.

  20. Interesting article. I believe all men should have some knowledge in martial arts and self defense. Defending yourself and your loved ones in today’s world is crucial considering the amount of fucknuts out there. Be smart though, most of the time there is no point in trying to act tough just to prove you are “manly”, fighting must be the last resort. Don’t get yourself stabbed or shot for stupid shits (and especially for women, come on gentlemen!), sometimes our brain gets confused with adrenaline and this 3 second decision can change your life forever.
    Keep in mind that you should know what is going on regarding the legislation in your own country. In some countries in Europe, it is not rare at all that the victim end up being locked or condemned by the judicial system. Yes this might sound fucked up but in some countries the notion of “self-defense” is totally different. Even some basic self-defense weapons such as pepper-spray, taser or baton are forbidden by the law and you can easily get in trouble if the police control you.
    I can’t recall how many times I read articles about the victim having to pay compensations because the guy defended himself against his attacker and hurt him. It really cracks me up sometimes with this judicial system stating that defending oneself is totally ok as long as the defense is proportionate to the attack. Right, so basically if someone comes to me with a gun, I just have to stand there so hopefully I don’t get shot and I have enough time to pull my own gun? Ridiculous…

  21. In my first sparring session at my current gym some 240 pound ex-sparing partner to the pro beat the shit out of me, but I took it for 4 long rounds
    He’s been my best mate ever since.
    Fighting someone can make you Brothers

  22. A lot of people mention duelling with pistols, which is plain stupid.
    First of all, a beta with quick hands could blow away any alpha.
    Secondly, too many valuable people were killed. How many times did the following conversation take place?
    “Shit, Mr Smith is dead. But, he was the only man in town who knew how to X, Y and Z

  23. Agree, had lots of fights growing up. At school, even one in college. Got mugged by five dudes, but fought back. Did some damage too, even if I got my ass kicked after having the joy of inflicting real pain on scum. When I go back to my hometown, it is a real pleasure to meet one of the dudes I scrapped with. I think growing up with fair fights give a sense of honor. The “no tattle” culture of my youth has been replaced with “see something say something”.
    It is a feminized culture with no honor that sinks into an Orwellian type Stasi state. The tattle-tale psychology is one that lacks honor and courage. Too much of the violence today has no honor. Like gang bullies going after one person.
    Need something real to train for being a man. But even in today’s culture, sometimes boys find a way to be boys.
    Although my son has no real fighting experience, at least he played in the woods. Although I put a stop to it, I feel like the most valuable part of his childhood education was when he used to play commando in the drainage pipes running under the interstate near our house. Used to come home up to his waist in filth after crossing under the interstate 300 yards to the other side. After a couple months of that, went to see what he was getting into. Was building a forest camp with his teenage buddies on the far side of the interstate as part of his “war games”.
    So not all kids these days are pansies. I remember the hysteria of the parents in our neighborhood where they were all saying that no kids must be allowed in the forest. I said, “No just keep them out of the drainage pipes where there are water mocissins , rats and copperheads”. NC is the leading snakebite state in the nation and my brother and I both have the honor of having been bitten by copperheads.

      1. It’s actually Muay Thai I’m doing right now. When I feel fit enough, I also want to join BJJ classes. (both offered at the same place)
        I wanted something that was very close to real combat and I wanted to actually fight and get hurt. Think I read an article on Danger & Play or somewhere else about street fighting, where the author proposed Muay Thai as the next best thing to Krav Maga.
        Krav Maga not being my first choice because it’s meant to disable quickly, not to actually harden yourself through fighting and having that rush. I want to do that as an add-on someday.

        1. In my humble opinion, MMA is not as close to real combat as many think. I was advised by a retired marine officer (who taught BJJ, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and TKD) never to go to the ground in combat. It is suicide.
          Having been there (in street combat) I agree.
          I agree that Muay Thai is better because it teaches you to brutally and quickly dispatch your foe rather than wrestle around on the concrete with him (I am conflicted – I have done MT for years). By all means, practice MMA if you enjoy it but MMA, like all Martial Arts including MT, train you for sport rather than combat.

        2. Yeah, as I said, I’m in it for the love of the feel when I fight. I guess rivalry and sport is quite what I want.
          I agree on the getting-to-the-ground thing, from what I’ve read. What do you suggest for real combat?

        3. Honestly, I recommend avoiding it. I read about a professional MMA fighter who lost a combat fight when the other guy stabbed him in the chest.
          If you cannot avoid the combat situation I recommend taking the nearest heavy object and braining your opponent with it. If your opponent decides to grapple with you I recommend biting bits off of him or gouging his eyes out until he leaves you alone.
          This may sound savage but in a combat situation you are fighting for your life. You can visit a priest for your confession afterwards.

        4. I guess it would depend on the situation. If I feel like the other person is someone who is interested in a fight itself and not out to destroy or rob me, I wouldn’t do that.
          That said, I would do it if some stereotype SJW attacked me. Ever since I saw that video where the feminists debate with MRAs. All that raw anger canalized towards you, the enemy. Shudder.

        5. Generally, if someone is just out for a fight, this is the type of fight that is easiest to avoid. If you are sure of yourself and capable of fighting (given your martial arts training) most people won’t even consider fighting you. If they do, you will be able to calmly and with authority tell them to behave themselves. If you do this in a way that allows them to save face they will quickly lose interest in fighting you. I have done this many times myself.

        6. Agree with this. A principle I learnt in self defense classes years ago that stuck with me. Allow the would be opponent to save face. Offer him a a way out. Maybe it’s a dude just having a bad day. Obviously protect yourself if he doesn’t take the hint though..heh.

        7. It’s one of those ‘best to have & not use’ things I think.
          If you’re willing to deal with the consequences of your actions, then yeah..go ahead & cut loose..

  24. The feelings you feel while in a fight are nauseating…

    I think the feeling is quite neutral. Its the bit before the fight that can be a bit uncomfortable.

    1. What about after? You ever feel weird after busting someone up?
      Logically justified, we got into it, but still a slight feeling of guilt for the guy.
      Subsides after about a week.

      1. I think you might be suffering from post fight fright. You will be thinking “how badly did he take the beating?”, “he could have a slow bleed to the brain or other internal injuries!”, “is he going to make a police report?”, etc., etc. Happened me just after Christmas. Guy made a go for me hitting me hard with his shoulder as I walked past. I had some booze on board as did he. Decked him with one to the chin. He went down like the proverbial sack of potatoes. Felt great but the questions do fly through your brain for a few weeks after.

    2. I have only been in 2 fights in my adult life. The second fight, I slammed the guy to the ground and the momentum made him smack his head against the concrete. The sound was terrible and his bodies reaction was sobering, and it’s not something I will forget. I avoid fights because shit can happen, shit that you don’t want to happen, shit nobody asked for. I’m lucky that he wasn’t killed or have serious brain damage and so is he.
      The state can take your life away while keeping you alive. Unless you’re fighting for your life or defending yourself, it’s just not worth it. Not over a dick measuring contest.

    3. Yeah, the adrenaline pumping gets you to shaking if you don’t utilize it quickly. Causes your brain to basically turn off as well, so you essentially go full brute caveman in responses to the provocateur.

  25. Just noting that losing 4,000 French nobles was probably beneficial to the kingdom. They didn’t do any kind of real work or trade and weren’t really good for anything unless there was a war on. Even in war they were a mixed bag – getting themselves killed charging up hills at bowmen, then the king would hire mercenaries to actually win battles.

  26. I remember back in the good ole days, when you had a problem with another guy, you’d pick a time and place, beat the shit out of each other (no faggy friends jumping in bullshit) and then shake each other’s bloody hands. It was great. Awesome rush to punch some dude in the face and he’d punch you back.

  27. I’ve never been in a fight before. Good thing too, because I’m 176 cm and 63 kg and I’m a giant fucking pussy so I’d get my ass whipped. I settle disagreements with diplomacy instead

    1. I wouldn’t underestimate you. I’ve seen a few so called non fighters give a real go when they’ve got a damn good reason to fight. Just pure unbridled unthinking action. Beautiful & primal at the same time if a tad uncultured in approach.

  28. “Don’t pick bad fights. Don’t get yourself killed over a girl. Don’t talk big and then not back it up. But also, don’t be so fucking afraid of standing up for yourself. Getting in a fight has real-world consequences, everyone knows this, in fact everything is geared to punish you if you do end up in one”
    My father to this day still preachs this advice. He can be repetitive at times, but I understand now he was just trying to drill it into my mind.

    ” Never start a fight you know you can’t win, but you make damn sure to finish it, if the fight comes to you…I’ll never be mad at you, win or lose, no matter how much trouble you get into as long as you stand up for yourself.”

  29. I have to say, I’ve never been in a fight. Not from my not wanting to mind, but no one wanted to fight me when chips came down. Always was kind of disappointed by that. Granted, I have no idea how I would do in that situation, as I have no formal training, (just a little boxing) but i am ridiculously strong, and can definitely stand pain well.
    But hell, I may be ganged up on by manlets and feminists someday and have to defend myself al la Neo vs The Agents lol

  30. Our society has gone soft. I’m not saying that killing each other over disagreements was a good thing, but I bet it kept a lot of peoples’ mouths shut.
    Back in the day, if you wanted to run your cunt mouth at someone, they might shoot you, challenge you to a duel or to a round of fisticuffs. Unless you were willing to die, you shut the fuck up and left people alone.

  31. Too right. I don’t want to end up in jail, but at the same time sometimes a man has to get a little violent. I mean fuck it, as long as I’m not using a weapon it’s just a traffic ticket anyway.

  32. If you’re gonna fight, fight for a good reason. Be able to justify it. Walk away if possible. If you’re forced to fight, make sure you win decisively.

  33. Dude, don’t degrade yourself and act like some sort of animal. Only fight when you have no other choice, like self-defense. But don’t start a fight, because you want to prove something or want to act like a tough guy.

      1. Dogs do posture themselves and get into fights with each other all the time though and that is not beneficial for any dogs involved

        1. They do, but an animal in the wild knows that injury frequently means death. It is no good to win a fight but die short while later because you can no longer hunt.

    1. I agree with this. There’s always someone out there who can kick your ass, no matter who you are. If you’re the biggest fish in whatever pond you might be in, you might feel like a bad ass, but it’s only relative to the pond. What we especially don’t need to be getting into is fighting over girls. Girls LOVE when men fight over them. They don’t give a fuck about the men who are fighting over them though, it’s all out of selfish validation for themselves

  34. “Warrior based-societies lived closer to death than we ever will, and so had a deeper understanding of it than we ever will, hidden as we are behind the safe veil of secular humanism.”
    badass quote

  35. “This is dangerous because our children increasingly do not what it means to fight.”
    This article is jamming but where was the proof reading before submission?

  36. How much violence must a person endure before theyve lost all taste for it? Often the people who would want violence have seldom seen it. Violence is the last of the last resorts. Only to be used when all other avenues have been exhausted. Violence is caused by the absolute failure of reasoning. Violence is easy, using your brain is more of a challenge.

  37. ” When they grow up, they will move from one safe white neighborhood to
    another, go to university with other bubble-wrapped children, and move
    into safe gated communities after they get that promotion.”
    ….the HORROR. Those damn white people, protecting their children from violent conflict. Can’t you see white people are literally starving their children of life???

  38. When I was about 5 or 6 there was a kid down the block from me about my age we called “Sonny”. The terror of the first grade set. He kept challenging me to a fight and I kept backing off. Finally the inevitable happened. Here we are rolling around in the front yard of the apartment building I lived in. Fear and adrenaline kicked in I got the advantage and started wailing on this kid until I ran out of steam and we both called it off. We resumed playing like little boys used to do before game boys and all that other technical shit. Later that afternoon I returned home and told my mom I got in a fight. I thought she’s be mad. She said yes I know I watched it from the living room window. She was glad I fought and told me I had a right to defend myself whenever necessary. My father would have never taught me this. So me, the undersized kid, that dear mom of mine was all of 4’10”, has been fighting the good fight in more ways than one since then.

  39. When you’re willing, truly willing, to lose all to defend all, troublemakers see it and arrange easier pickings. And fuck fist fighting, the knowledge you hold firearms gives anyone that would fuck with you second thoughts. Once the air/aura and reputation amongst the men in your life is established, you can be the gentleman we’d all prefer to be.

  40. Fighting is very enjoyable. To make some one submit to your will using your barehands is quite emopowering.

  41. Nice article. I agree fighting is a lost art. I’ve been in a fair share of scrums, lost some, won some. It is an experience I value as a man.
    There is alot of conduct in fighting that needs to be adhered to. 1 vs 1 fist fights should be the standard between two men with a problem beyond what a conversation can fix. Guys get jumped, stabbed, and robbed all the time. Giving fights a bad name i think fighting for honor between two men is the best way to go, but then again not a lot of guys have the balls to actually do that.

  42. I am afraid of fighting because I feel I’d hurt the person severely if I were to fight back. Not because I would want to, or wouldn’t be able to stop — rather I am afraid of my strength. This has caused me to get beat up, because I was “afraid” to fight back. How to reconcile this? The time I did get beat up, it did feel good — however even though I put up no defenses, the people that beat me up said their hands hurt and they were bleeding.

  43. Men were expected to fight to earn their keep, win renown, and of course to secure a mate. The nobility of Europe was founded on the warrior class, unlike in other places such as China, or India, or South America, that all had priest-led societies. Some more history:
    dunno about that, since the church and priests had a strong influence on politics. The warriors were decond up however like in the indian caste systems

  44. worth adding, the whole reason dueling and mutal fighting was outllawed because it was important people like tradesmen dotors lawyers and politicans that were getting killed and used emotional triggers like a widow and her kids to allow the practice. Back in the day everyone kept a gun or sword and got lessons on how to use em.
    Even sweden had this honor culture and took 2 centurarys to stomp it out.
    its in the norweigen documentry “brainwashed” on reddit worth watchin.

  45. < col Hiiiiiii Friends….’my friend’s mom makes $88 every hour on the internet . She has been unemployed for eight months but last month her payment was $13904 just working on the internet for a few hours.
    try this site HERE’S MORE DETAIL
    ????????rt

  46. Fortunately all the lads I’ve ever fought with and those who’ve witnessed it have at least had the balls not to go around telling figures of authority, sometimes people need to settle their issues with violence and there’s nothing wrong with that.

  47. I think we need to re-instate the holmgang. Two men, small island in a stream, and no one to intervene. This should be more or less a last resort, but if two men won’t resolve their differences any other way, let them finish it permanently.

  48. It’s biological programmed into every man to be able to FIGHT. He needs to be able to protect his family if harm comes his way. A woman knows if you are a protector (muscular energy) or a pussy. Learning to fight gives off muscular energy women find hard to resist. Going against your biology and acting like a nice guy leads to depression (void).
    With enough protective gear (gloves, helmet, mouth guard), men should be encourage to jump into the ring if they want to fight someone. That’s how men deal with issues, not talking about our feelings to one another.

  49. Iraq and Afghanistan have had the lowest participation rates among the America population than any previous war. I have little respect for any able-bodied male who was of military age between 2001-2012 who did not join up to slay hadji.

  50. Reminds me of my youth. Our sessions of playground boxing, with gloves of course, playing street soccer, tackle football, engaging in the time honors tradition of the mosh pit.

  51. I recommend training a martial art and doing a lot of sparring before you go into a real fight.
    You will feel plenty of that ‘aliveness’ during that process without taking more serious damage but still preparing you for the random, chaotic world of violence.
    All in all nice article. I often think about dueling and how brave these man must have been to take their life on the line just to defend their honor. Times surely have changed, but such an honor-based society will come again sooner or later, I’m sure.
    In the mean time we should prepare for fighting the most honorless sucker-punching scumbags because those will be the majority of real world opponents, at least in my experience.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *