I love to drink. Maybe not as much as your typical Friday night out crew, but I enjoy it. But if I am out to game, I will almost always choose doing it sober. I want to narrow down the pros and cons of you drinking when it comes to game:
Pros
- Fun, social mood
- Less hesitation
- Drink can be used as a tool (ie. allowing her to sip your drink to build comfort)
Cons
- Money
- Too many drinks and you can severely hinder your game
- Too many and it can affect how you feel the next day
I’d take the pros over the cons for drinking. Besides, these cons aren’t really a factor unless you drink too much. Now, the pros and cons of you staying sober:
Pros
- Remember the night with more accuracy
- More control over yourself and your interactions
- Ability to read smaller signals (e.g., if she is constantly touching her hair, touching you in subtle ways, showing signs she is nervous)
Cons
- Can be harder to get in social and fun mood
- More hesitation, depending on your level of game
Those are pretty much the basics. I’d like to discuss the more in-depth differences between being sober and drinking while out, as some of it cannot be explained by simple bullets. First, let us start with the topic of state.
State
When you drink, your night always starts on a high. Your state is amplified by the alcohol. You are on top of the world. You don’t have to be drunk and falling over to achieve this, and often enough a few drinks are enough to reach this sweet spot. Problem is, there is nowhere to go but down. Throughout the course of the night, your state will slowly start to decrease. Drinking throughout the night can slow this process, but the decline is inevitable.
When you are sober, it is the opposite. You start on a low. With experience out sober, you become accustomed to it so that it is not a detriment. Inevitably, with the night starting out and approaches occurring, you start to increase your state. You build social momentum. At the end of the night, you are on a high, and potentially even more so than the high you get from being drunk.
That is not to say you can’t build momentum while drinking. Although I believe it has the potential to be stronger when you are sober. I am not saying because of your decline in state you will have a hard time pulling a girl at the end of the night either. However, I believe you have greater potential if you are on a high sober state, as opposed to a drunk state.
Extraversion
Some people say you are either an introvert, or an extrovert. Some say that you can be somewhere in the middle. I say create another option; you could be all of the above.
I was always classified as a more introverted person. When I drank, I became more social, bringing out the extraverted side to me. I had the potential to become life of the party with the right amount of booze. But never sober.
When I was out at night, I would become more social and witty around girls. Extraverted traits are necessary in night-time environments when it comes to cold approaching. And this is no surprise, as drinking exposes the extraverted side to you. But if you are an introvert, and find you can only be more extraverted when you are drunk, then you are relying on alcohol to meet people and be social.
This can be changed. That extrovert side to you? You don’t need alcohol to become it. In fact, its interesting by taking a perspective where you can learn from your ‘drunk self’. Personally, I would reflect on how I would act drunk, socially. If I was talking louder and with more confidence, if I was more direct with my touching without any drawbacks, if I was less hesitant in the split second before an approach, and so forth.
I started doing these things sober. It was challenging at first, but I learned to calibrate. If I can act that way drunk, I can act the same way sober. Eventually, I found it just flowed naturally in the right environment. You learn to become high energy.
By doing this, you unlock the extraverted side to you, without requiring alcohol. You learn that you can be introverted or extraverted, depending on your mood and situation. Contrast that with someone who is always ‘introverted’ and when they go out they can’t stand that they must drink just so they are able to talk to attractive strangers.
Inner Game
Now for what I believe is the most important part of sober game. When I first started going out and getting my first kisses and make outs and slight successes, I loved it. However, I was always drunk. I felt like alcohol was my crutch. And truth is, for many guys, if not most, it is.
I wanted to be able to do the same thing, sober. Being able to make out with a girl I just met minutes ago sober was a challenge for me already. After a tough learning curve in getting used to the night environment sober, I eventually accomplished that goal. Then, I imagined myself pulling and getting a one night stand. I had never had one before, and if I could do it sober, I would be proud of myself. Once I did that, I felt a very strong high after my achievement.
Which brings me to my next point, inner game. I believe attaining success with women without requiring alcohol, and being in a sober state builds deep confidence. Not the type you choose to exhibit, or are aware of. Ever since I started to become really comfortable going out sober, I’ve had more people respond to me. Guys avoid eye contact and look down, girls show more interest and shyness. Also have had some very direct compliments from girls I had not been accustomed to:
‘I figured out why I’m so awkward around you. You’re so confident with yourself it is intimidating.’
On the other hand, success with women while drunk builds drunk confidence. A buddy of mine is great with girls. He doesn’t get needy, teases, escalates, and shows some ‘natural’ qualities. Problem is, he can only do this drunk. When he is sober, or only one or two drinks in, he is like a scared rabbit. This doesn’t mean everyone only has drunk confidence, but this is widely the case. Roosh has mentioned the following before in his book Day Bang:
“The average man will die before doing a cold approach while sober.”
I also wanted to feel in the same state all the time. If I was out during the day on my university campus in between studying and lecture and I saw an attractive girl sitting by herself reading a book on a bench, I wanted to know I could do well, because I do great in the exact same state at just a different time of day. It’s not as difficult to integrate day approaches into your life when you approach at night in the same state you are in all the time.
To conclude, I want to make it clear that I don’t have any hate against drinking on nights out. I still do the occasional night where I’ll drink and rip the fun benefits that alcohol brings. But I do appreciate doing nights out sober. I know many of you can have great nights out while drunk, and can pull successfully at the end of the night.
Game is game.
But I definitely encourage giving sober game a try. Even if it means only to learn how it affects your state. Or how much you can learn about your drunk self. And maybe see how it affects you internally. At worst you’ll save some money and maybe a hangover in the morning.
Read More: Sales vs. Game
RSD/10
“If I can act that way drunk, I can act the same way sober.” Everyone needs to internalize this one.. for situations beyond game
It’s easy to approach, get numbers, dates, etc. sober. But getting a new girl from a club to your apartment and closing the deal without ever having a drink? Much harder proposition.
He isn’t advising not having a drink. He is advocating not being dependent on alcohol to pickup.
I have never, ever had a girl say, “No. You haven’t had a drink.”
Okay, but is she going to be drinking much if you aren’t? Let’s assume you spent at least an hour or two together.
Will that make the bang easier or harder?
” . . . is she going to be drinking much if you aren’t?”
If it is available and she wishes to.
“Will that make the bang easier or harder?”
If she’s just lying back and thinking of . . . vomiting, what difference does it make? I wouldn’t be there and I’m not sure why you would be either. The juice isn’t going to be much worth the squeeze.
When I was younger I used to get hammered every time I went out. Now I rarely get buzzed and usually stay completely sober. As long as you are drinking some it is completely acceptable. It has worked wonders on my game as well because I can close with girls much more effectively than before. My favorite move is offering them a ride home and then claiming to need to use the restroom when we get there.
Awesome article, A lot of guys can be Alphas after 6 pack of brews but wimpering beta’s while sober, I’ve also been trying to work and sober game and its easier said than done. You hit the nail on the pros though, to add on -some of the other pros are:
1.You can analyze woman better e,g red flags, IOI(Indicators of Interest) etc
2. You get know alot about your inner game on the sober nights, allowing you to work on whatever part of your game needs to be worked on e.g approach or closing
I’ve been teaching pickup bootcamps for several years, and though I usually have a few drinks and allow my students a few, they aren’t allowed to touch alcohol until after midnight. Most guys by midnight are in-state and killing it, even if they started off poorly. The ones that are still in their head and low energy, I make them have a beer or shot. It’s true though, alcohol comes with a cost. $, burnout, lack of attention to detail, false confidence, sloppiness. So your best bet is to try to do without it until you pull a few times sober.
Good article and points. I rarely drink at all anymore (because of cost and just hate vibe at American bars and clubs), and so this has forced me to cold approach girls at random places. I just flirted and asked a girl out at a pizzeria. Just five years ago, I would’ve been terrified of looking “creepy” and just waited to go flirt with tramp-stamped skanks at some overpriced bar, instead.
It is definitely a deeper, prouder confidence that comes with sober approaches.
>Cons
>Too many and it can affect how you feel the next day
This. After a night of heavy drinking I feel like shit and get nothing done the next day. Reduced inhibitions for a whole day wasted, that’s a shitty ROI.
Very true. God forbid you get anything accomplished by noon the next day…..
Good article. I’ve given up drinking and as you say, attaining the success you normally would whilst drunk in a sober state is rewarding and breeds its own confidence, and I think as you say feeds far more into a core, true, inner confidence – the confidence bred from knowing YOU did it, with no crutch or artificial stimulus.
I’ve always done sober game. Interesting to read.
Martinis are like tits, one’s not enough, but three is too many.
Fucking Martians.
hahahahaha
Minimizing your drinking is a good idea. However, total sobriety typically means you’re playing the game on “expert.” A few observations on sober game from a guy who’s been straight edge for 9 years:
– Lots of idiots (male and female) have no conversation topics beyond “I got soooooo wasted” or “Have you tried x beer? It’s got a hint of elderberry along with the barley yeast wheat blah blah blah…” Fucking boring.
– You’ll get over approach anxiety in a more permanent manner if you approach while sober.
– Rolling solo at bars kinda sucks. It’s easy to feel out of place and lose your vibe without a friend or two to keep the energy high.
– You can get past the early interaction stages fairly easily (often easier than if you were drunk) since your mind stays sharp. However, closing the deal is much more difficult unless…
– If you have zero morals and can somehow get past the sloppiness, it’s pretty easy to bang really wasted chicks if you show up late and play the “ride home” card. However, that kind of behavior is questionable at best and will get you labeled as a scum bastard really fast. Not only that, drunk girls are really gross when you’re sober. I’m at the point of where I won’t even bang a long-term girlfriend if she’s wasted. You’re playing Russian roulette with a rape accusation. Don’t bang really drunk girls.
– Women (especially the hot ones) almost universally dislike guys who don’t drink at all – the only exception being religious girls. You’ve removed a ton of “bad boy” excitement factor from the equation with total sobriety, plus you’re seen as a weird and judgmental non-participant among both women and men. It’s easiest to fake drinking (tonic water/lime, soda in a cocktail glass, etc) when at bars or parties because it eliminates the endless “why don’t you drink” questions.
– If you get asked why you’re not drinking, turn it into a humorous lie. I’m a white guy, so I say I’m a fundamentalist Muslim cleric then spin it into a routine asking if she’d like to corrupt me. If they keep pressing, say you’re the designated driver. If you meet the same crowd more than once, you’ll have to come up with a more elaborate explanation. I have a history of criminal activity that includes significant drug use, so I pull a girl aside and play the “reformed bad boy” card. Usually works pretty well.
– Dating is a borderline waste of time unless alcohol is involved. Tame coffee dates go nowhere and more creative dates get you friendzoned. The sad state of affairs is that getting drinks is not only expected but required for the first few dates. Most women need the crutch of alcohol in order to loosen up enough to get into a sexual mood. An unfortunately large number of women need to be wasted in order to have sex at all. I know two girls (and several guys) who claim they’ve never had sex sober.
Conclusion: I hate the taste of alcohol and the feeling of being drunk so I’ll never drink again. However, if I could occasionally make myself drink even one beer or cocktail, I’d have at least double my current notch count. I’d recommend having a drink or two to fit in, but don’t get wasted. Keep the middle ground and see success.
Fake drinking, that’s the way. You don’t need to be completely sober, but drinking half as much as others keeps you in control.
The next day…
For years i had not done this, meeting people during the day, might be the social setting of living with people who take some strange pride in being shy.. no matter.
Once I started meeting people during day,
I could not afford anymore drinking past three four drinks and lose my next day. The coffee place, the gym, the sauna, any other social setting where people are sober, bring with themselves better opportunities at less frequency and a higher difficulty setting, but the reward is large.
Three drinks is what I like.
First one: The good wine or whiskey for your tongue
Second one: The good wine or whiskey for your tongue
Third one: The good wine or whiskey for your tongue
The holy trinity.
Next day will bring sober opportunities anyway.
I can count the number of times I’ve had alcoholic beverages on two hands. Then again, I’m not successful with women (although I probably would be marginally successful if I didn’t have yellow fever).
In my experience, you should stay sober until you have a girl attracted to you in the venue, then have a drink with her. But, drink less than she does without making it obvious.
Also, if you’re in a location where everyone else is heavily inebriated (like Bourbon Street, for example), it will really help your game if you are one of the only sober people in the situation. You will notice clues and opportunities with women that all the drunk people will miss. Being sober when everyone else is drunk will make you look cool and confident.
Solo-Sober game has turned out to be an epic journey for me lately. Can’t complain.
How do u go solo without looking like a total loser
Change your mindset.
Self confidence.
Agreeing with this article makes me feel like I am at an AA meeting but it is absolutely true. I have always used alcohol as a crutch when out. This is why ROK is one of the best websites out there. Sometimes it takes somebody telling you for you to recognize something that should be apparent. Time to get out there and sober for a change!
I remember the first time i did ecstasy, which was also the first ONS ive ever had. We went to a club in a big city and i was the life of the party. Perfect game no hesitations and rock solid confidence. The next day i sat down and thought about it. All of this was because of a chemical which just deleted my anxiety. Only mind games. So i said to myself, why wouldnt you be able to do this while sober? What is holding you back? The answer was : you yourself. So the next weekend when we went clubbing and everyone was drunk/high on drugs, i was doing sober game and it worked wonders. Surely it was hard at the start but your inner game is waaay stronger and you basicly shine inbetween the drunks and high people. Give it a try guys, its only natural
This is a good article.
But I just can’t stand being in a club if I’m not drunk. I can pull sober(day game ftw) but being sober in a club, I notice all the shitty stuff. Like the bad music, the fact that the girls aren’t that cute and overly made up, the guys with shitty game blowing the price of pussy up. Dealing with drunk ADD Western girls who you know aren’t that hot under those layers of caking when sober takes a patience I find I do not have.
But then again, I’ve largely quit clubs. Alcohol is bad for my gains anyway. 2-3 drinks at a bar, if even that, and it’s water for the rest night. Sure, my friends call me a pussy, but I”ll be laughing all the way to the bank with my fit body while these faggots deteriorate and wonder why they couldn’t take care of their health.
I’m a bartender and I can tell you, with a few notable exceptions, most of us don’t drink that much. While we’re all seasoned drinkers, we’re all on our game a hell of a lot more when we’re sober.
A few other bulletpoints on going out and not drinking (or maybe 1 and done):
– If you’re a dude, too much drinking leads to erectile dysfunction. Some guys (myself included) are more prone to this than others. But, it’s a stated fact that blood vessels shrink in the presence of alcohol.
– You get fat. I’m very health, diet-wise. Maybe 1 soda/wk. No chips, candy, processed sugar. I juice a few times a week. Lots of greens, eggs, meat. I guess, I’m paleo. But, the ONLY bad diet habit is I’ll often indulge in probably 15 cocktails over 3 days. That’s a LOT of sugar. That’s been the X Factor for why I can’t lose weight. I went on vacation and didn’t drink…after 5 days, 8 lbs came off.
Stay hard, stay sexy. Cut out the booze.
Being a college freshman in a fraternity, I struggle with this idea pretty often. If I want a crazy night with some stories, I’ll do shots and go hard, but the women always prefer me if I’ve only had one or two. We’re drinking out of red solo cups here, too. If a woman asks what I’m drinking and it’s really water, I simply tell her it’s straight vodka or silver rum or something and she eats it up like I’m a crazy son of a bitch.
Nice article. Alcohol is a tool. It is probably best used to socially lubricate others but not necessarily you.
But I don’t drink to be social with women,
I drink to numb myself of the deep existential pain of being a human being in this age.
The women just come with the environment.
If you are sober, you’d better only be picking up sober girls. If not, you are a predatory rapist, and I hope one of the girls you assault gives you AIDS.
“…I imagined myself pulling and getting a one night stand. I had never had one before, …”
This is where I stopped reading.
This article was a revelation. As a 20 yr old about to turn 21, reading this now has given me so much insight about myself. For as long as i can remember I always drank when I went out. I thought as long as im with friends, ill be ok and in control. But come to find out there will be times when you are surrounded with people you dont know and decisions my drunk mind will not act upon. Sure ive had hookups and one or two one-night stands, but that was with girls who were just as drunk as i was. There was no sense of accomplishment because I was too fucked up to realize I could have hooked up with way hotter girls…while SOBER. If you are on the mission of building sef-confidence while sober, you will perform confidently in the same state. For me, i feel more in tune with inner feelings, overthink, and overeact if i drank too much (tipsy- not as much since im closer to sober). Recently went to an outdoor picnic where every of age or close to of age person was drinking. My drunk mind says “fit in and follow the crowd”. But this mission of building self-confidence is all about you and your actions. There is no reason to follow anyone else but yourself. If you dont suffer with this like me, stop reading…but for the ones who cannot properly function under the influence, maybe cutting it off or at least toning it down is the best move for the both of us. Taking action will be hard at first but not taking action makes it even harder the next time. There are no mistakes anymore, only lessons.