How To Run Game And Go On Dates Without Alcohol

Today I want to explore a topic that guys often ask me about on ROK and Twitter—namely, how the hell is it possible for you to game girls and go out on dates with them without drinking alcohol? The answer is that it is not only possible, but actually beneficial in several ways to do both of these things without drinking a drop. You will save money, retain clarity, remain sharper and more in control of your actions, while also staying in better shape and becoming more confident.

To Drink Or Not To Drink?

First off, I want to put to bed any notion that this article might come from a prescriptive or moralising place. Personally, I couldn’t care less whether anyone drinks alcohol or not—that is entirely up to them. Nor am I suggesting—as some pick-up coaches have done over the years—that game without drink is somehow superior or is likely to yield better results. None of this is the case, and indeed, most guys I know who have success with women drink in a healthy way and it doesn’t affect them in the slightest.

My story, though, is a little different. Because I have a very compulsive, addictive personality, my relationship to alcohol was never a good one and culminated in lots of trouble followed by rehab some fifteen years ago. Through the support of others and some great mentors I have never touched alcohol again since. I don’t miss it at all and have enjoyed a great life without it since.

What this has meant, though, is that I am in the interesting position of having seen out the majority of my pick-up days to date completely stone-cold sober. So from my early days of night game six times a week in Manchester bars and clubs, to parties in London, Vegas and New York, to day game in many cities across the world, I have had to step up to the plate and approach and date without the benefit of drink as a stimulant or a crutch.

Was this good or bad for the success of my game? Impossible to say, since of course there’s no way of running a controlled comparison. What I can say, though, is this—my results certainly got significantly better after I put the cork back in the bottle.

When guys discover that I no longer drink they tend to ask me questions around two distinct areas, namely: how do you approach when you’re sober, and how do you go on dates? Since these are arguably the two most significant peaks that the every pick-up artist must bypass in his journey to the sexual summit, I will deal with each in turn.


Would you approach them without a couple of drinks first?

Before giving up alcohol, my strategy for approaching girls was as follows: drink as much as possible in the shortest time possible, summon up that dutch courage, shamble around thew bar or club walking up to girls and hoping for the best. My approach to dating was similar: take the girl out to a bar, get both of us as drunk as possible, and hope that sex happened as a consequence.

Imagine my apprehension, then, when the option of drinking was removed from me and I walked into a raucous nightclub to make advances on pretty young girls with no chemical shield whatsoever.

I won’t lie and say that it was easy. In actual fact, it was hard for a while to get used to these new circumstances. You know what really got me through, though? A vast, unconquerable need to get laid. A young man in his twenties just out of a pretty toxic relationship, at a time when online dating was in its infancy and apps didn’t exist, literally the only route open for me to reach my sex goals was through cold approach, and so somehow or another I simply had to pluck up the courage.

If you would also like to try this there are two very helpful tools I can recommend. The first is what you might call the ‘gun to the head’ method. By that, what I mean is, imagine someone came up to you, put a gun to your head and told you, you have to approach and you have to get laid before the end of this evening otherwise I’ll blow your brains out. Well, you would just get on with it, wouldn’t you? You would have no other choice but to open every girl in the place and try every trick in your arsenal to get laid regardless of approach anxiety, rejections, cockblocks and so on

What that should tell you is something very significant: you have the capability within you to approach and get laid without drink already. If you are not doing so it is only you who is holding you back.

The second tool I can recommend is to reward yourself for actions rather than results. What I mean by that is, don’t set the bar too high. As I have said before, even by just approaching sober you are doing something that 97% of other men are too afraid to do. That in itself is worth of celebration. So do it and feel good about yourself. If you get a bad reaction then so what? At least you are in the game.

Right now I should put in an honourable mention for day game. Of course, the reality is that day gamers all over the world are cold approaching sober every single day. This, however, is a relatively new phenomenon since day game as a discipline was very niche over a decade ago. It should also be recognised that daytime situations are often a lot less intimidating than nighttime ones.

Still, one thing that has really helped my night game in the past has been combining it with day game to achieve an overall halo effect. What I mean by that is, if I’ve done a number of low-pressure daytime approaches before entering a club or bar then my confidence levels and vibe are much higher and it is much easier for me to approach in the drinking environment with gusto.


I have been on hundreds—thousands—of dates in the last fifteen years and I have been sober for all of them while in almost all cases the girls I have been with have drunk alcohol. Has that impeded my success as all? No. Has it occasionally raised awkward questions? Yes. Are these easy to overcome? Usually, yes.

Here’s what I’ve learned about not drinking on dates. The very best strategy is not to make an issue of your sober status if at all possible until after you have had sex.

I’m not advocating being misleading or even manipulative for the sake of it. However, what I’ve found is that going into a long conversations about the reasons that I don’t drink tends to derail the date, making it more into a kind of therapy session or AA meeting rather than what it should be—a sexy rendezvous.

Now, this might be different if you choose not to drink because you are a health nut, or training for a triathlon, or something of the sort. But even then you risk putting yourself in the ‘square, boring’ box. The fact is that most women—and most men—like to have a drink in a social situation as it relaxes them and makes them more sociable. The last thing you want to do, therefore, is to make your date feel awkward about the fact that she is drinking in front of you, or worse, suspect that you are trying to get her drunk while you remain straight in order to take advantage of her.

My strategy, then, is to order the drinks myself and try to avoid the conversation about what I’m drinking. My usual routine is to take the girl to a cocktail bar and stay for one or two rounds at the most. I will order whatever she wants and a soda and lime for myself. Served in a tall glass this can easily pass for a vodka or gin-based drink and most girls don’t even think to ask. If they do press me on it I will either change the subject or deflect with a joke (‘why do you care—are you trying to get me drunk?’) If she persists then I will tell her that I’m drinking soda water but I’ll then change topics quickly so we don’t get bogged down in the reasons for my choice.

Pluses and Minuses

A non-drinking warrior, yesterday.

I don’t mean to suggest that there are no downsides to not drinking—of course there are. There are certain things that I can’t do—like drink shots by the bar, toast with champagne and so on—that without a doubt help a certain style of player to get his wicked way with many ladies. I also have some difficulty pulling off a line like ‘Let’s go back to my place and polish off a bottle of wine’—although I tend to suggest it anyway and then just drink water myself and there’s never been an issue. But there can be a certain suspicion of non-drinkers from drinkers, especially female drinkers, and so I make an effort not to draw attention to this at least until after we’ve banged. For at that point she will backwards rationalise that everything about you is favourable in order to justify her decision to reward you with sex.

In the main, though, not drinking has not affected my game one jot, and I hope this article has shown you that it is eminently possible to pull off successfully should you wish to forgo booze yourself.

Want to find out more about how to approach and seduce sexy girls every day? Buy Troy’s bestselling book, The Seven Laws of Seduction. Follow Troy on Twitter 

Read More: Why You Don’t Deserve That Perfect 10

356 thoughts on “How To Run Game And Go On Dates Without Alcohol”

    1. ‘Let’s go back to my place and drop a few hits of acid’ has a nice ring to it.

    2. Banging a girl on acid is like waking up to a Freudian nightmare and then pushing yourself into a Salvador Dali painting. Good times.

        1. You have NOT seen Airplane 2?!?? How can you miss one of Bill Shatner’s most epic roles?!? For this many years?!?!?!

        2. Ok, but dude, It’s The Current Year! Literally!

        3. hey, I didnt miss much. Guy wouldnt rent R movies to kids under whatever the age was- 16 or 17.
          “Oh, you wanna rent Porky’s? Lets make sure your dad is okay with it, Ill call him….wait what? You wanna rent The Neverending Story- again? Okay!”

        4. “and they’re beeping and blipping and flashing…I CAN”T STAND IT ANYMORE!”

    3. If you are red-pilled and Alpha, you will stay away from all kind of drugs. Period.

      1. That’s the True Scotsman fallacy.
        If you have self control, then you are on your way to alpha. But self control doesn’t need to mean abstinence, it means exercising proper judgement and keeping things in perspective and in moderation.

        1. Ghost
          That may be true for some people when it comes to alcohol.
          I highly doubt it applies to drugs, especially hard drug such. I am not sure if LSD if still out there (the world-and the drug-market has changed dramatically since the sixties), but sure as hell you should stay away from it.

        2. Oh, right, I thought you were just striking out at alcohol by associating it with that other camp. I know it’s a drug, I was just talking about alcohol. If you’re doing meth, no amount of game will make you alpha.

        3. Why? It isn’t really harmful. Heck, everybody should try a psychedelic at least once in their life, even if just mushrooms. Opens your eyes.

        4. take just a LITTLE bit of mushrooms…go snowboarding. If psychedelics are wrong, I don’t ever wanna be right.

    1. Very well said. ZFG means you don’t care, period. If you’re not drunk or totally stone cold sober, ZFG is the key.

  1. Depends on what you want, if you are looking for sex, by all means drink up. If you are trying to pin down the unicorn, stay sober (or close to sober). Nothing says “gentleman” like making an ass out of yourself and vomiting on the carpet.

    1. not necessarily true about just looking for sex. Very often I go extended periods of time without booze where I will order coffee of water with lemon in a bar (I tip extraordinarily well when I do this) and even if I am drinking I usually keep consumption down while I am out womanizing.

      1. Makes sense, back in my drinking days, I usually had the best luck when I was the designated driver. Otherwise I just didn’t care about the nasty bar hags in the group and just went ahead and boozed it up.

        1. I knew a guy who was a bouncer at a strip club in florida. He told me that the biggest advantage he has in a fight over a customer is the fact that he is sober and they are drunk. I told him that it works the same picking up women.

        2. Lots of guys use alcohol as a crutch to suppress nervousness. Once you take the red pill, and you see women for what they are, there is no reason to be nervous about being rejected by some hamster wheel on legs.

        3. This is my feeling exactly. I will have a glass of wine or a cocktail because I enjoy it, but yeah, I feel it is more of a hindrance to be drinking than anything else.

        4. And Scotch, because you are a cruel invader intent on overtaking Scotland!

        5. Oh, when I am at home or just out for a drink on my own I will down quite a substantial amount of scotch, but not when I am trying to get it in with a new girl or going out with the specific intention of finding a new girl.

      2. What is coffee of water? Why have I never heard of this before?

  2. When women find out that you don’t drink alcohol, they quickly disqualify you. One of them told me she can’t be with someone who she can’t share a moment to go to Napa and enjoy a good glass of vino. I’ve had really bad luck with women if they ever find out that you do not touch alcohol, or will not join them for a drink.

    1. That’s true – if you say “I don’t drink”, they hear “I just got out of jail for murder”.

      1. Or they hear “I am a card carrying Mormon” and they will go for that if they are themselves.

        1. Thats easy! Just get a temporary teardrop tattoo. I think all you need is a sharpie

        2. For a couple bucks, you can get some sweet temporary dragon and skull tattoos at the grocery store in those little red vending machine things for kids.

      2. I hear, “I have DUI’s, numerous bad relationships, several children and a plethora of problems including anger and emotional control”. If a guy doesn’t drink fine, but I want to find out why he doesn’t drink.

        1. And it always seems that any of those answers is less shocking to people than “I simply don’t like it”
          So yeah, I usually just say I quit drinking after I ran over a kid.

    2. This has been my experience as well. Women view view you as some kind of martian when you tell them that. However, if they’re too much of a mental midget to respect your descion to not consume alcohol, do you really want to be with them anyway though?

      1. True. But when you are young single male, and want to bang some sluts, it becomes an arduous dilemma. I don’t go looking for a woman that I can wife up. At least, not in this stage of my life.

        1. Some of the best advice you’re going to get is in the article above. Just don’t bring it up and if you’re out and about, just downplay it.

    3. Not necessarily. It depends on what kind of women you are looking for.
      If you are real alpha, sooner or later will want to reproduce. If your for the mother of you future kids, look for a woman that has same or similar view on alcohol as you.

    4. Here’s what I do: fucking lie. Get a tonic or soda and lime and if she asks, tell her it’s a vodka tonic or rum and coke.

    5. yea society is so fucking hypocritical regarding this. But you might be framing it like youre asking for her acceptance for you not drinking, instead of disqualifying her for being a alco loser…like all people who drink (myself included). its a drug, she wouldnt say that if you were into heroin, she’d be turned off. Wine is all marketing, pretentious cunts mate, thats all. I grew up in a wine region, and theyre a bunch of hypocritcal wankers. Alot of those people use meth because of the long hours harvesting.
      See these things for what they are, addictive poisons. Plain and simple, you dont need it and you dont need those people in your life. being alcohol free alone, makes you BETTER than most people in almost everyway. everyone starts drinking because of peer pressure, and like cigarettes it tastes terrible to start with, until you “acquire” a taste for it..or “acquire” the addiction.

    1. You take Kratom and your game is like Monopoly when you have motels everywhere.

    2. I need a ruling on this. Do we pull the Kratom routine on ALL new articles, or just Sponsored ones?

        1. snozzberries still taste like snozzberries. they are finallly making a sequel

        2. You worked in the ED? That’s ok man, it happens to everybody at one point or another.

    3. In Alcoholics Anonymous, the Higher Power calls upon Kratom for strength.

      1. by the way you guys are sounding, you may need to form a Kratom addicts anonymous group.

  3. Good article.
    I would also add that It`s not only your game that will improve once you give up alcohol. Each and every aspect of live will get better one you gave up alcohol completely. It is much easier to do it than most people believe.

    1. I go on and off, on a regular schedule every year. I feel generally better physically not drinking, no question. But drinking casually I also feel at ease and good. If a person has a problem then I can totally understand teetotalling. For people that don’t, I’d say, fly with what works for you at the moment and don’t go to excess with the booze and you’ll do fine.

      1. Ghost
        Sensible comment. I agree that some people manage to drink in moderation and only on social occasions- and I do not have any problems from consuming alcohol. However, I have seen an increasing number of young (and not so young) professionals developing an alcohol problem. Yes, they all started “drinking socially only and in moderation”.
        The point being: if you are red-pilled , ideally you should not risk consuming something that has the potential of being strongly addictive and ruin your life.

        1. There is a lot more hard binge drinking these days, but a lot less casual “one or two beers at the bar after work” type drinking. I don’t know if we’re drinking more or less alcohol than people in the 1970’s and earlier, but I do think we’re seeing people drink it a lot more dangerously and in an much more unhealthy manner. If you put down 10 shots of Scotch a week, but only at the rate of one or two a day, that’s fine. If you do it in two hours on a Saturday, then that’s really not a good thing. Seeing lots of the “two hour fast drunk” types around these days, no question.

        2. I preferred the binge drinking. Nothing like passing around a couple bottles of Yukon Jack around a bonfire. Like driving, gaming is best done sober.

        3. Eh, I’m on the border on this. Gaming drunk is bad news. Not only might you fuck everything up, you might actually SUCCEED in bringing Hogzilla home and that’s just wrong.
          But a drink or two, eh, not a big deal.

        4. Almost plowed my friend’s Yetti sister messing around like that…
          Yup, all fun and games until you wake up next to someone with a blow hole….

        5. I can honestly say that I’ve never gotten “that drunk” to where I woke up with an ugh the next morning. At least not that I can remember anyway, but maybe the meth addiction wiped out most of the 90’s for me.

        6. Yeah, destroying memories of the 90’s really can’t be considered a bad thing.

  4. If you do drink, go Churchill on her:
    -My dear you are ugly, but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.

    1. “If you were my husband I’d put arsenic in your tea.”
      “Madam if you were my wife I’d drink it!”

  5. I have a wine bar and can say without a doubt that women today drink more than men do. Men still pay the bill in 90% of the cases.

  6. I’m totally going to be a dick here, and just say it.
    To guys totally new to game and red pill, there is NO better place to pick up chicks than an AA meeting. Think about it. They have an addiction personality, they’re looking for something to take their minds off drinking, and they have you there with “things in common” who “understands what she’s going through”. And if you start to lose frame, offer her a drink, she’ll snatch it out of your hand at lightning speed and be drunk and horny in half an hour flat. It’s like playing a game with cheat codes.
    Some may think I’m joking, but I’ve actually heard this from a couple of guys who went through AA treatment.
    EDIT: I have never done this, just heard about it. Heh.

      1. I was serious, I have honest to God heard this from guys who went to AA meetings.

        1. There’s a saying in AA about hooking up with the women there (it’s called 13th-stepping) — ‘The odds are good, but the goods are odd.’ !

      2. Plus, the room might be full of hot former club sluts. I mean the possibilities here are endless really.

        1. I would bet you though, the former club sluts going to AA are right in the process of hitting the wall. They are not going to quit until they see a reason to do so. Most should be in their early 30’s, used and abused, trying to clean themselves up to find Mr. Right.

        2. Dude, we’re not talking about wife hunting here. We’re talking about guys who are new to women in general and need some experience. It’s like advising them to go to a prostitute, except without the exchange of money. Nobody likes that, but if it gets their feet wet, eh, why not?

        3. If you bring a flask with you, you’re basically wading in the kiddie pool at that point.

        4. AA rooms generally are – but, as above, these are women who’ve hit the wall hard after years of partying. The younger girls there can be hot but they are also almost universally completely insane.

        5. Yes – 100% right. Most girls come to AA post-wall. A few younger ones too but they are all crazy

        6. You’re right on target. There was this chick I chased for a while, then her boyfriend got testicular surgery for cancer, so I stepped on up to plate. A year passed. Turns out she married the guy. The last time we talked, she was calling me from a drug rehab clinic over in Houston. So he hit her, I hit her, and she hit the road, the clinic, and the wall. She was 36 entering the clinic. Still there. She sent pictures of her and some of the biddies in there. For adicts, the wall comes early.

        7. Right, but for some super beta dude that finally got the message but can’t approach or get shit done, I think it’s a good stepping stone.
          And again, I am so going to hell for this.

        8. And that’s different from hot young girls elsewhere?
          Been in since 84. Avoid the borderline and narcissistic psychopaths, ignore the born again virgin lines and they’re pretty much like all the rest except they admit they’ve got problems

        9. A fellow friend of Bill! I’m 15 end of March.
          Yes, you have a point. I haven’t much dated in the rooms but when I have I’ve been burned so I guess that’s coloured my judgement. But I’ve always felt that a girl working on herself should in theory be preferable to one who isn’t

        10. Once you cull the crazy out there not much to choose from but a girl who knows she’s a little crazy is better than one who doesn’t know she’s crazy.
          And the ones that are actually sober can give an unqualified apology. That’s a rarity in the world.

    1. makes sense but I am guessing the quality is going to top out right around the fat chicks who show their tits for biker magazines.

      1. Who the fuck cares about quality (outside of looks)? I’m just giving some advice for the types who can’t even approach their mother without getting nervous, or think that only Asian guys bang white chicks. Or whatever.

        1. when I said quality I meant looks…lol what the hell else would I mean by quality.

    2. Interesting. However, I suspect the SMV of those ladies tends to be really low…Alcoholism ages women ever worse than men…

      1. GOJ works leather as a hobby so he might be getting confused 😉

      2. You get the young suburban types or the club sluts ordered there by a judge because of a DUI. Heh. The hardcore ughs, I’d imagine, are off limits.

        1. aahhhh you guys stil have DUI mandatory. Here you do something else and yes I did pick up a girl in my dealing with the DUI ass rape I had to go through.

        2. Yeah, the court mandate makes all the difference in quality. I thought everywhere had this, so I guess that assumption was wrong.

        3. they used to do that here, but those ANGRY mothers who are all maddddddd about a little dinkey drivey have too much power here and religion doesn’t count for what it used to so instead of AA there is a course that lasts like 8 weeks or so where some moron in a learning annex tells you all about drinking responsibly and then you have to sit through the worst fucking thing in the world…the VIP or victim impact panel This is where you and 100 other degenerate drunk drivers are brought into a room for three hours while the family of some nice little girl or some fine young man who was killed in the prime of their life and they tell you, over and over, in excruciating detail all about the day their kid was killed by a louse like you. I actually picked a girl up during that. lol.

        4. That’s a beautiful thing man. Up there right along side Errol Flynn, who picked up a 19 year old chick at his court hearing for allegedly dating two 16 year olds. Heh. Just…fucking….epic!

        5. This family was there. First the father telling about how he was out doing whatever when he got the call and recounting his story about going to the hospital and seeing the daughter die. Then the son tells the same thing about the sister. then finally the mother. 3 hours of this and a whole room full of people ready to kill themselves as the mother goes on about holding the girls hand and her being totally unrecognizable. I am sitting there thinking “well shit, I had like 3 scotches and slid a motorcycle…I mean, what these people experienced was terrible but man” during the 15 minute break between hearing the 2nd and 3rd retelling of this horrible story I’m having one of the free coffee’s and talking to some girl who obviously works out and she says she is trying to get herself to do a power up. I start giving advice, yadda yadda yadda…..

        6. Errol Flynn, liked him in “They died with their boots on”
          maybe a little inaccurate historically, but hey, it was a good film

        7. He was a decent actor. Everybody goes on about his looks and how he declined later, but I thought that some of his work in the later years was pretty good. He single handedly rescued “The Sun Also Rises”.

      1. Between those huge sweating tits that hung enormous, the way you’d think of God’s as big.

        1. I was paid $104000 in last 12 months by working online from my house and I manage to accomplish that by wo­rking in my own time for few h /day. I followed an earning opportunity I stumbled upon online and I am so amazed that I was able to earn such great money. It’s so newbie-friendly a­­n­­d I’m so thankful that i found it. Check out what I do…

        2. You couldn’t get paid 104000 Canadian pennies to use your tongue as toilet paper in a Dubai brothel you filthy twat.

      1. Hey, look, why not?
        “Let me be the first to welcome you back into the dating pool sweety!”
        Hell, me, going there.

        1. My wife has asked me if I would get remarried if something happened to her. Some of my friends are scared to answer. I tell her I will. My daughter already told her if she dies who she wants me to marry 🙂
          Nothing like keeping the hamster busy

        2. not a bad answer however, why wouldn’t you go with “married? the hell with that, I am taking the life insurance and banging 22 years olds for the rest of my days”

        3. I had that question too.
          “Nah sweety, I sure won’t get married. But I sure will be playing the field!”

        4. When I go to the gym I normally always go to locker 23 or 25 to store my stuff. My son went to the gym with me a lot, one time he asked me why I always go to locker 25 and I told him “Because that’s the age of the two women I’m going to be dating if your mom ever leaves me”.
          I like making memories like that, that he’ll share with other guys ten years from now. Heh.

        5. That’s my answer also, hell no! I learned my lesson the first time.

        6. I always say no. What I don’t say is there’s nothing you can’t borrow, rent or hire done…

    3. Probably get a handful of girls that when you try to hang them will tell you they “aren’t like that anymore.” If you really want to meet slutty women, just hang out around the abortion clinic.
      That cheat code line was gold though.

      1. Nah man, they’re looking for an addiction surrogate, and sex fills that gap. Just telling you what I heard, these were some pretty straight up dudes telling me.

        1. Sorry for disrailing the convo. Your article was tight and spot on. Just had this whole “I really want to share this” urge that was, frankly, entirely dickish.

        1. Good ol Lloyd Dobbler. Every girl in the early 90s wanted a guy like him.

    4. That’s sounds unfair, it would be like shooting quail on the ground or hunting over bait ; )

      1. And if you’re hungry, there’s a problem with that? Ground shot quail don’t taste any different than flying quail. Just sayin’…

        1. No doubt, but if you want to find out how thin the veneer of civilization really is, let the masses go without food for a couple of days. Ground shot quail will be the least of our worries…

        2. Most of the masses would starve in short order if civilization crashed and I would be eating quail lol

      1. Yeah, that was covered under the “I’m a dick” heading.

    5. Guys legitimately going through treatment via AA and hooking up is one thing, but pretending to be in recovery and using booze to hook up with damaged women who are actually trying to improve their lives is low. I don’t know, if I was a guy that desperate I would spring for a hooker. I wouldn’t intentially fuck up a vulnerable woman who is trying to get her life on track just to get laid.

      1. “Guys legitimately going through treatment via AA and hooking up is one thing, but pretending to be in recovery and using booze to hook up with damaged women who are actually trying to improve their lives is low. ”
        This is why I never bothered going to an AA meeting looking for snatch – there’s just something about it that says “This just ain’t right”
        Typically too each person who is involved in AA has a “sponsor” which is a buddy that you can call should you feel the need to drink. These guys are genuine in their effort to help someone. By attending AA strictly for pussy, one is becoming a royal bullshitter across the board. Again, this just aint right.
        That, plus many chicks in AA have screwed up sex lives and are probably sprinkled with a plethora of STD’s, wheras a good high quality escort will be safer to be with.

        1. Exactly. Also for a young shy guy trying to hook up for the first time, an experience with an addict with major issues could scar them for life and ruin sex for them. Better to go with a hassle free pro. Oh that rhymes 🙂

        2. “Exactly. Also for a young shy guy trying to hook up for the first time, an experience with an addict with major issues could scar them for life and ruin sex for them. ”
          Good insight. This is also true for those who may be paranoid of STDs. There are tons of activities to engage in and not contract anything – just google “external sex”. But say for example one just blows his load on a chick’s rack, which is totally safe for both involved. But then say, after he blows said wad on said chick’s rack, said chick wants him to go down on her. Upon spreading of her legs he notices the nastiest vaginal rash he has ever seen, in which he will be garunteed to contract something he will carry the rest of his life. It gets awkward when one has to say to Mary Jane Rottencrotch that she has a rotten crotch.
          All more reason for the escort – one engages in an activity most comfortable for him, and on his terms.

    6. “To guys totally new to game and red pill, there is NO better place to pick up chicks than an AA meeting. ”
      I first heard about this from a very obscure pua from the early 90’s named F.J. Shark, but he stated that it is the women that troll the AA meetings to look for a guy. The most warped thing about all of this: females would prefer a guy who has a drinking / drug problem than a guy who has his act together.

      1. I believe it. I dated one. She liked broken men because it put her in the driver’s seat and made her self esteem higher.
        Yeah, we didn’t last long. 😆

    7. A lot of people do hook up in AA, it’s true. There are plenty hotties in places like LA, New York etc. A few in London too, but interestingly a lot of women hit 12 step programmes post-wall. Presumably when they figure out the party’s over.

      1. “, but interestingly a lot of women hit 12 step programmes post-wall. Presumably when they figure out the party’s over”
        Good point. I would highly doubt one is going to see a 22 year old super hottie at these meetings.

        1. “Wrong meetings dude”
          Then there’s always ‘Cocaine Anonymous’ probably higher likelyhood of pre-wall hottie skank to be found there.

      2. That can be true. But for a dude 22 who can’t even talk to his sisters without blushing, an AA meeting is a great place to hit to get that lovin’ feeling.
        I’m not saying it’s desirable, good and moral. But that same dude tapping a semi-hot 30 year old is going to get some confidence.
        After that, walk out of the lion’s den and go for the real chicks.

      1. For a ONS who gives a fuck about her baggage?

        1. People will use you. It’s how we work. Being “nice” is for crap.

        2. Besides, You used the Hittites and Jews, right? I mean c’mon.

        3. Thats a shitty way to live your life. We all use one another, but id rather not stick my dick in crazy. Been there done that too many times.

    8. I am gonna one-up your dicksmanship; not that it’s completely related, but…
      If you’re in your mid 20s to 30s and want to pick up more, sexier broads at the local college bar or something, here’s a great trick:
      Find a wedding band at a pawn shop or borrow one from a married friend. Put that shit on, dress nice, have a decent haircut, and smell good, and I guarantee your conversion rate is going to go way up.

    9. I went to AA for a while after getting out of rehab. The good looking girls in AA are few and far between. However if you can find a CA or NA (Cocaine Anon or Narcotics Anon) meeting, thats where the hotties are. No joke.

    10. You are correct, sir. In AA circles, this is what is known as the “13th step”

    11. Buyer beware. These women come with not just alcohol addiction but can include a plethora of other mental health problems.

      1. I wasn’t giving relationship advice, I was giving “Here’s an easy way to get a piece of ass” advice.

        1. Understood, but the last thing you want is your penis being used as a doggy chew toy when psycho bitch gets upset. Worse yet, calling the police and yelling that she was violated.

    12. I have a friend who swears by the same kind of psychological cheat code with strippers in a strip club. Basically, you have to recognize that all of them are somehow damaged and come from fucked up backgrounds. You position yourself as someone who is broke – do not pay for lap dances, etc… – but offer to chat with the stripper while she waits for some dude who is going to pay. The casually let slip that you share a fucked up background – something like, “yeah, I’m originally from Kentucky, but I had to get out of there because I found out my uncle was molesting my sister – so toxic.” Dude swears by it. Says he never fails to fuck a stripper, and never pays to do it.

      1. I feel compelled to give this a try at least once now.

    13. It’s no small coincidence that the founder of AA started the group with exactly the purpose of taking advantage of alcoholic young women. True fact.

    14. Depression or Grief Recovery support groups, too. I know. I’m going to hell.

  7. Never drink. I only drink with good friends for the sake of drinking.
    If you drink to be able to approach women, you are simply a loser. You have to numb parts of your brain, so you won’t be socially awkward? Weak.
    And this 100% kills your ability to do daygame. If you get to the level to not needing alcohol to approach girls, you are above 95% of guys. Then you can also do daygame and have waaaay more opportunities to meet girls as the average chode, who only meets women in loud clubs, where he has to fight for the attention of a girl with 5 other guys.

    1. I’ve been drunk almost every day for the last two months.
      I don’t do anything for women ……. I do it because I like it.

  8. Up until 1911 I believe, it was illegal in most places for women to drink in public.

    1. My behavior arcs from “most charming guy in the world” all the way through “who brought this insufferable asshole?”

    2. If the caribou eat the wild weed up there, do you get a buzz from the meat?

      1. Only if the round in his gun doesn’t misfire.

      2. That’d be sweet. We legalized recreational so I tried some outdoor grows last summer using cold weather strains and couldn’t get them to flower before it got too cold and dark. We have awesome amounts of light for vegetative growth, but once the light leaves here, it leaves in a hurry and gets cold quick. Set up an indoor tent in my garage and it works much better.

    3. never smoke that wacky tobacci. In the Kneeman’s opinion it is the most dangerous of all the drugs. Worse by far than any other.

      1. For some reason I wouldn’t have expected that response from you….

        1. Here is the thing about pot, I believe it fucks with your brain. Find any hard core, daily user of any drug who has been using for years. Smoker, alcoholic, heroin addict…find me a daily user of coke who has been using for years and tell him “i am going to try coke for the first time” or crack, or meth, or anything…….they will tell you, I promise you this, they will tell you not to get started. Only pot fucks your brain up so badly that it leads you to believe that the shit you are smoking is not only benign BUT ACTUALLY FUCKING GOOD for you.

        2. and why would that surprise you. I do enjoy occasional weekend drinks, but I am a total health nut otherwise.

        3. I’m not suprised you don’t do it, I just would have assumed you would be like “whatever floats your boat man”.

        4. Never heard it said that way but I fully agree. Most potheads are thoroughly convinced that it’s manna from heaven and every dedicated pothead I know is a fuckup.
          Now I’m waiting to get flamed by the potheads.

        5. Daily smoker. I would tell you to try it and that daily use is no big deal (if it fits your personality/psychology). I’ve done the math and the benefits I receive far outweigh the risks. Calms me down, makes me concentrate, increases creativity, etc. Booze, just the opposite.

        6. Ricky Williams(former NFL running back) started a gym in Cali(looking to open more) which combines weight training and cannabis post work for pain. It was in Outside magazine a month or two ago

        7. ah….well, ok, I get that. Yeah, I am not about to try and stop people from doing anything they like, but I do think that prolonged exposure to pot will make someone dumber than a bag of rocks and seriously effect their brain in negative ways until they are living in a teepee
          Reminds me of the time I went to the shrink and told him “doc, I am a tee pee and I am a wigwam” and he said “well, lolknee, the problem is clear. you are two tents”

        8. When I was a hardcore runner, I loved a bowl after a race. One of my main reasons for using it is because it keeps your body limber and relaxed. Better after a day in field than painkillers and booze.

        9. Haha. I’m a gun safety nut. No intoxicants if using a firearm. That’s why I don’t concealed carry. Would rather pack a bowl.

        10. see, this is the problem. You smoke daily gunny, and I like you and all, but you are now claiming that drug use is a positive thing. Only pot could fuck your brain up so badly that you would claim that drug use is good. I like booze, but I know it isn’t good for me. You want something that calms you down and helps you concentrate, try more vitamin b, a healthy diet and regular exercise. You have done the math on doing drugs and find the benefits outweigh the risks. I would suggest that the drugs have fucked you ability to do that math up which is why you come up with that answer.

        11. Yeah but, booze makes me totally awesome, if you don’t believe it just ask me after I’ve had a couple.

        12. Thanks. That has been a long held belief. There is no way that you can possibly argue that getting high is healthy without having your brain fucked up. Like I said above, I like scotch…maybe a little too much even….but the idea that I would argue that having 4 or 5 scotches in raped succession is healthy is preposterous.
          Don’t worry about the pothead flaming. They will totally forget by the time the 4 oclock article drops.

        13. I don’t buy that argument because you start from the assumption that no drug use is good. Therefore, any drug use is bad. I don’t agree with that. People have been altering their state of mind since the dawn of man for various reasons. I think a certain balance can be reached where you get a positive out of it. I think that varies for each person and there are different routes to that.

        14. yes, I am starting from the assumption that drug use is bad for you. In moderation there is a trade off and I understand it. I drink. it isn’t great for me. I try to be moderate and keep it to weekends and not go too far. I know a guy who, with his wife, has one cigarette a day. He knows smoking is bad but this is their thing. Fine. But only with pot to you begin to get the idea that it is good for you.

        15. I think we are arguing different points. I don’t think it’s necessarily good for me. I think the positive benefits I get outweigh the negatives and potential future harm. It’s the calculation people make every day – do I eat this cookie, do I watch this tv show, do I race this car, etc.

        16. right, but at the same token you would recommend to other people trying pot whereas I recommend to people to avoid cookies.

        17. Right, because the benefit of eating the cookie is not worth the potential harms. I also don’t think that all cookies are bad all the time. Sometimes, a sugar laden cookie is fine and the pleasure and calories you get are worth the harms of the sugar and calories.
          I have real trouble with accepting absolutes in any facet of life. The world is one big blurry gray mess.

        18. sometimes, sure. But daily consumption? Look, I am all for trying different shit out. Lord knows I have tried all sorts of drugs. Hell, I made a point of really, really, reallllllyyyyyy making sure cocaine wasn’t for me. Like I really wanted to test this one out before making the decision. But when I hear pot people talking about the health benefits of marijuana I immediately think that the frequent or even daily usage of the drug has indelibly hurt some part of their brain

        19. And you might be right. God knows I don’t have all the answers. I started in my early 20’s and have only become a daily smoker in the past few years after establishing myself and not having as much of a daily grind. Is it damaging my brain, maybe. Is it helping compensate for already damaged parts of my brain, maybe.
          Gotta run to a meeting. See, responsible adulting…

        20. I skipped weed and went straight to H. Snorted a line, then another, and WHOA! Tried weed much later. Thing is, I could function on that H I did once, but not weed. Then again, before I ever tried H, I was administered three IV doses of fentanyl in the ER and the docs were amazed I wasn’t passed out. I just felt normal and relieved from my injury.

        1. So THATS what’s wrong with those morons! They have fried gourds.

        1. the more pot you smoke the more you sound like an American indian. I imagine that if you smoke enough pot you eventually just turn into one.

        2. By being an Italian guy who dresses like an Indian and stands near trash piles to cry.

        3. You know, a joke isn’t funny if I have to explain it…

        4. I get it, I was talking about the Indian guy from those 70s commercials

        5. I was being facetious….. I think that’s the right word anyway.

      2. Disagree. Ive done more reckless things when boozed up. Booze is the gateway drug

        1. 85% of the readership here has no idea what we’re talking about. Heh.

        2. It’s unfortunate that they know nothing of music from the horse and buggy days.

    4. You are wrong. Cannabis is extremely harmful (probably even more so than alcohol). There are several reliable medical research founding stating that cannabis use can lead to all sort of pshychologixal problems (including psychosis, paranoia and schizophrenia) as well as lung-problems. Sadly this has been ignored by the Mainstream media and the “legalize-lobby”.
      I am not against cancer patients administered a small amount of cannabis derivative in a controlled environment to aliviate their pain. However, I am against cannabis use in general, that is pushed on the general population all over the US and Europe. Poeple who have used cannabis are also more likley to experiment with harder drugs (heroin, methamphetamine etc)
      Re-offending drug-dealers should be executed. Yes, even if they “only” pushed cannabis.

        1. Swatting invisible spiders off of your face and screaming is….healthy?

        2. I had to quit because of the munchies. It was brutal, I could out eat a Sumo wrestler.

      1. You have really drank the Kool-Aid. While side effects happen (rarely), cannabis is still objectively safer than any other recreational drug, especially booze (the worst gateway drug). There has never been one overdose of THC.

        1. Uou lost me when you used the word “recreational”. People should not be using drugs , not even “recreationally”.

        2. People having been using drugs or some other vice recreationally since Noah built the arc. It’s about control and moderation, not letting a vice make you its slave. I used to work at an addiction treatment centre. Well over half of them were there because of alcohol. I never met a patient there for pot addiction. Just saying..

      2. Alcohol and tobacco kill more people than all illegal drugs combined. But you’re right there is a connection between pot use and psychosis in young people. Something to do with their stage of brain development.
        However the average pot smoker will have less health risks than someone who drinks daily or binge drinks. Pot doesn’t destroy your organs, like alcohol does, and you can vape it which safer for your lungs. It doesn’t cause incontenence, significant withdrawal symptoms like seizures, or cerebral atrophy, which are all risks factors for heavy alcohol use.

      3. Cannabis can increase neuroticism – the personality trait that is the least that you want more of. There is no universal medicine and also various individual differences, as well as differences between substances (cannabis as a product is seldom made up of only a single substance) but if you want to relieve anxiety temporarily it is better to use sleeping pills (short term), than cannabis.

      4. Youre barking up the wrong tree, you probably wouldnt be where you are if it werent for cannibis. Its a great plant, and can be known to bring on mental illness in those predisposed to it. But in general it is relatively harmless for most people. It is damaging to society insofar as it makes people not want to participate in the stupid shit society expects us to participate in. it is also one of the only “drugs” that is not addictive at all.
        Saying cannabis is “extremely” harmful is a massive over statement. it is mildly harmful to a small percentage.

    5. Recreational Cannabis use also can have negative effects. Countless times it was para and not a happy feeling at all. I would not recommend indiscriminately for everybody. If someone has undetected psychological problems, Cannabis can deepen it.

  9. What about party drugs?
    Extasy sometimes makes wonders, especially if the girl is also on Extasy.
    Other times, it makes you unable to run Game…

    1. I had my first and only experience with molly last summer. Wow. I felt like a million bucks and I got well laid that night….but the after effects, days of pain in my very soul, my teeth feeling like I was getting a root canal by Theodoric of York Medieval Barber (there’s an obscure reference) and a head that made me legit contemplate suicide more than once convinced me that never again,

      1. Better to do it daytime at summer festivals, and if taken moderatley, and if the MDMA is pure, you may not even feel the after-effects.
        Curiously, if taken at night, the comedown is horrible.
        But it does help with girls, especially they are also high and rolling, and open to feeling and touching…

        1. I got it from a florida state trooper at a wedding with 300 people. It was basically a summer festival lol. I tried it, I had fun, the come down was terrible and I will never touch it again. As for help with girls….I am pretty good sober.

        2. The most important thing about drugs, the most important decision to make regarding drugs, for any man, is basically one has to decide if it is for him or not. You tried it and had your fun, but realised that once was enough and that you will not use it in the future, is a clever and respectable, mature decision. IMO.

        3. right, which is why I totally advocate the legality of drugs. If they made crack so legal that you could buy it at 7/11 I still wouldn’t smoke crack. I got no issue with a person who uses drugs at all so long as they aren’t robbing, stealing, fucking over their family etc. What my issue is is with people who passionately advocate drug use as something which is beneficially to ones health.

        4. As a libertarian I always advocate for all drugs to be legal. I don’t do them, and I advocate it only partially because of human liberty. A not so small part of me basically wants the Law of Darwin to take hold and weed out a good portion of the < 100 IQ bracket of the population.

        5. I agree. One thing bothered me while I was a heroin addict, is why can’t I simply buy it in pure form at a pharmacy, for the cost it is made, instead of the 1000x inflated prices of the black market, cut to shit with poison? Why do I have to steal other peoples money, ripping off people, when in those normal circumstances I could have bought all I needed from the fruits of my honest work and labor – I was legally employed all through those years, a functioning addict (I know, I know: contradiction in terms) and not a street junkie – and I would have had money also for everything else necessary? It is as if the present situation is devised to destroy the lots of people who are in these shoes…

      2. Molly is scary. I found it was impossible to not be happy, but still acutely aware that that happiness was false and would eventually go away. It was fun in the moment, but reflecting back, it was just too much escapism.

        1. Yeah, indeed well put. You totally feel it, but there is this small voice at the back of your mind, questioning the validity of those feelings.

    2. People who have tried ecstasy are more likely to use harder digs (heroin, methamphetamine etc.)…

      1. Well… as a metter of fact, I just came off smack after 10 years, thanks to Red Pill and self-improvement. Now I am totally into Game to make up for the lost years. But after heroin addiction, Extasy looks like Smarties which give you a little buzz. MDMA helped me feel a bit positive about myself, and helped me to pick up girls some time… but other times, I lost my frame on it. So its 50-50, I would say.

        1. Well, congrats for defeating your heroine addiction. (Distant cousin of mine suffered from it for a year while living in the US. Thankfully he has been clean for six years. So I do have some compassion with you)
          However, I would suggest you to say as clean as possible. Remember, a bad batch of ecstasy can still kill you. MDMA -use in general, can lead to all sort of complication.
          At some point you will realize that red-pill is first-and-foremost a right state of mind. Once you achieve that, there will be no place for drugs. Nor you will have the desire for them anymore, because your mind will focus on important things. And-importantly-you will not need alcohol/drugs to get the woman you want, and the woman that is right for you.
          For some it only takes a few months to get there. For other, it may take a while longer. You will get there, if you are not there already.

        2. With Red Pill and self-improvement, I have arrived to a positive frame of mind. I go to the gym, I am looking for serious employment, I am putting those years behind. I am building a solid mindframe around my present life.
          And somehow the last time I took Extasy, it put me outside of that positive mindframe. I met a girl at a party previously while high on Extasy, we had fun time, and I was hoping to repeat that. Did not happen.
          This Extasy fucked me up so that I did not dare to approach that girl, with whom I have already hit it off before. That was when I realised, I do not need this shit. I would have been better off if I met the girl the second time totally sober.
          So you are right. Any substance which comes from the outside into your body and mind can put you outside of the positive frame you have so painstakingly built. To feel better, I found much better practices than taking drugs, and that is ear-acupuncture, yoga and meditation.

        3. I’ve met a few e-tard burnouts. They have no attention span and cannot speak a sentence at an adult level. Come to think of it, it seems like some of the nonsense on social media posts I often see.

  10. uhm, not one fucking person has mentioned Kratom. For shame comments section….fooooooorrrrr shame

        1. you can’t reserve your kratom. you must be on kratom light.

  11. If you are red-pilled…
    You should realize that alcohol and drugs are out there to keep you away from rational thinking. Also, if abused alcohol and drugs will emasculate you quickly and possibly permanently.
    Stay away from alcohol and drugs.

        1. Funny as fuck moment: the shot where the detective is saying “6 people killed in 48 hours” notice as he says that line the gore poster on the left.

    1. Totally agreed.
      If I could go back in time to give a stern talking to my younger self, those would be the points I would emphasize.
      Alcohol would not be a problem, I always hated that shit. Drugs, on the other hand, I know of, and I wish I didn’t.
      I do have a theory, that the saturation of youth with drugs, building youth counter-cultures based on drugs, is (((by design))), and goes with (((political backing))).

      1. (((by design))) and (((political backing))).
        The usual culture vultures at work.

    2. They can definitely grease the gears though if you’re trying to get some wool.
      All things in moderation, I say. And extra care is required when drinking & gaming… especially in current year. Waaaaay too many dangers, internal and external, for a man once he passes the warm & fuzzy stage.

    3. I’m 61 now ….. how much longer do I need to take drugs and alcohol before I’m emasculated?
      Started drinking beer with mates at 1pm yesterday afternoon, moved bars and changed to wine coolers at 4:00pm. Wife’s brother appeared at dinner time so G&Ts were forced down. Woke up with a stinking headache, then made a new personal best time on my morning 25Km cycle loop.

  12. Everyone tells me, “I like you more after a few drinks,” and alcohol has yet to ever get me in trouble or influence me to hurt someone’s feelings but YRMV. I didn’t drink till well into my 30s.
    I’m about 50/50 drinking vs not. I totally agree that sobriety is necessary to Day Game. My last Tinderella was a meetup at a coffee shop and a quick trip to her place, “try to keep up,” she said as I followed her home at dangerous speeds.

    1. I have to agree (look at my other comment). I think drinking a glass of wine isn’t that bad. I always had fun with girls on the rare occasions where I drank. I’m much better with girls when I’m drunk (I’m a mild aspie) and women are much more sexual, too.
      Furthermore coming from a vintner family gives me the benefit of having a nice bottle with my name on it around. This is DHV at its finest.

  13. Wow, just five minutes ago I asked myself if I should start drinking after I read the part of ‘Antifragile’ from Nassim Taleb where he mentions that he only consumes drinks that are at least a thousand years old: tea, wine, water.
    I have been a nondrinker for pretty much all my life because my parents are alcoholics and I hated how they treated me as a child when they were drunk.
    But on the other hand I’m coming from a vintner family and drinking out of bottles that have my name written on it in golden letters sounds glorious.

    1. You still have drinks remaining which are 1000s of years old, namely tea and water, if you leave alcohol the fuck alone. If your parents were alcoholics, you may be more predisposed towards alcohol addiction. Does not worth the risk, alcohol is the most boring and the shittiest drog on planet Earth.

      1. Except smoking cigarettes and they go hand in hand. Both equally as shitty, addictive and fucking legal. And the presumption people have choice not to abide these addictive drugs is disgusting.

        1. I wish I could quit fucking cigarettes. Smoking is such a waste of time, health, and financial resources.

        2. I struggled with them for ages. i can still feel how they affected my chest as we speak but i finally kicked it in November last year.
          Read Allen Carrs Easy way to quit smoking over and over until you get it. Its the best thing i have tried. The key is not to focus on the reasons you shouldnt smoke but to dispell the reasons you do, of which, there ends up only being two , Nicotine addiction and brainwashing. Its the best book i have ever read. They do day seminars too i took one and the woman holding it was very helpful and supportive. There mot defintely is a life without smoking and i wonder how i could have ever been so silly to start. But thats how it works, you get fooled when you are young.
          read the book.

        3. Thank you for the advice, sir! I will definitely check out the book you recommended. Have a nice day!

    2. That thousand year rule is pretty fucking exquisite. I’ve never read anything from him. Is it worth spending the time & money on a copy?

      1. Absolutely. Best book that I have ever read and I read a couple of hundreds. His little anecdotes of practical life advice make the book something special. And it’s also pretty funny because he bashes academics, doctors, journalists, economists and politicians all the time.

  14. Great post, this is something I’ve been thinking about lately. I used to be really shy, and the only way for me to open up and be social was to be drunk. Now at 30 I’ve done a lot of work to improve my confidence and social skills, and I actually find I’m a lot more outgoing while sober. In fact, drinking actually puts me in my head a lot and makes me more self-conscious.
    While I don’t mind having beers with friends, I’m definitely still shy in new social groups and do need some liquid courage for that. My goal is to not have alcohol dictate my social outings, but rather to have it be a part of it but not the main course.

  15. The author speaks truth and I have also found Wine Walks to be a FANTASTIC place to meet women. They like wine (makes them feel classy?) there are very few other guys around to compete with (80% women) and they lend themselves to mingling as the little pods of women having a “girls day” go from one establishment to another.

    1. It has been my experience that young hotties don’t know a cabernet sauvignon from a riesling. To them, sweet is all that matters. (OK, they do know Barefoot moscato.) The women I’ve seen who have at least a decent knowledge of wine tend to be 30+ in age.

        1. Damnit….
          AND I didn’t get the first Kratom remark in the new article…
          Waste of a day…

  16. Good article. I gave up the booze and never looked back. It’s amazing how much I can accomplish in the mornings rather than feel like utter crap.

  17. I fucking love drinking. Know what goes great with cocktails? Nice company.

  18. Good article Troy. That, plus for us more senior guys we function a bit better in the fuck department without the sauce.

  19. Nothing related to the article, but a funny story about a woman and booze.
    A guy in my old platoon absolutely hated his squad leader. He messed up his hand on a field exercise and didn’t deploy with us and down range the hated squad leader disappeared one night and nothing ever said (he wasn’t missed).
    We came back a few months later to find out that the hated squad leaders wife was a recovering alcoholic. The kids stopped coming to school at one point, so someone went around to check on her. The place was a wreck. She had been boozing hard for days and the kids were running around the house half naked, hence the sergeant got recalled to deal with his relapsed wife. Apparently she stated that every day the door bell would ring and a bottle of Jack Daniels was waiting at the doorstep and no one there. It was dismissed as complete BS.
    The said platoon mate with the injured hand admitted to the deed right before he left the service.

  20. Still waiting for the “How to go on dates and get bitches to buy you whatever you want” article Troy.

      1. The Twilight-Zone-ending here being that to be a 9 or 10 guy you have to make enough money to get whatever you want for yourself and give less than half a damn about any of it.

      2. I’d amend that.
        Become a 9 or greater, and have a ZFG outlook.
        Make her compete for your attention.

  21. Alcohol sucks. drugs are for losers. End of story. ya wont fill that void with any of it.

      1. I sure love losing with Talisker and Lagavulin. Seems like those are only good things to come from UK.

    1. If your talking about a void; you obviously have one. Booze and drugs never bothered me.

      1. We all do, its evolutionary designed to keep us worried, alert and alive. Some people just feel it less than others. But if you try drugs and booze or have ever been shopping for a pair of pants and sneakers, you felt it at some point or you wouldnt have tried it to begin with. Its the reason why marketing works.
        Its just how it is, peer pressure or curiosity. it all stems from that feeling that ‘we are not perfect’ in our natural states, which is incorrect thinking.

  22. You’re sober, and they are drunk.
    Sounds like you are asking for an ‘informed consent’ problem.

  23. It’s true, you don’t need to drink much, if at all. One or two beers at the most should be sufficient if you are too chicken to chat up a girl sober. Beyond that, you start coming off like an idiot.

    1. The point of booze is to loosen up mentally and loosen the gal up. I am sure there are folks that can bring it- get into hype- without any help but most that are on a site like this need a edge to get going. Its like working out without supplements.. yes, it can work; just not very well. I like hard liquor because it doesn’t take much.

      1. There’s also an ethnic factor. Mediterranean types typically don’t need alcohol to schmooze girls, but there are jokes to the effect that the Brits, Irish, and Scandinavians absolutely need booze or their races would die out.

  24. Well done on not drinking mate!! *respect.* Since last year I started to get very bad heartburn so I can’t drink anymore.
    I put a post on RVF about dating without drinking and the guys suggested coffee dates! I haven’t done any coffee dates yet cause I was still drinking until 2 weeks ago where the whole right side of my body was in very bad pain that I couldn’t work for a week. I’m waiting in blood test results at the moment where if anyone has had anything similar, please let me know. I have no issues when I don’t drink but for me!

  25. Alcohol was the key to getting my wife to break out of her shell in bed.
    I don’t fault troy, it’s a demon he had to kill. But without that magic drink, I’d still be stuck in 2 positionville

  26. You can beat an infection without antibiotics, but why would you? It’s faster. You can get a girl without liquor, but why would you? It’s faster.

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